Shapeshifter Setup questions

Jessica

Basically, I'm starting to play Baldur's Gate 2 just after having reinstalled everything to where I want it (de arnise, romance-no gender req, Dungeon B-gone, and G3 Tweaks) and nothing is terribly unbalanced or significantly changed from before other than obviously, fixing the shapeshifter and somehow making that spell into a weapon of some kind...
Apparently, It's a dagger, and proficiencies now count toward towards my to-hit stuff now!

I am planning on dual classing into a fighter (I know, you rarely if ever want to dual class from caster to non, but I could consider doing it the other way via EEKeeper for the kit), but I want to know what I should be considering for weapon selections, dual wielding options, wearing armor, etc if I dualed to fighter, and when would be the right time.

I just remembered that I did slightly alter the hit table things in the tweak pack to where everyone follows the progression past level 20 if need be to reach similar levels or something? I'm really not sure because as much as I love gaming and try to get into the mechanics of things, I often suck at it.
Obviously, I'll want to be proficient in daggers as high as allowed to let me hit the everything, but should I dual wield, should I use a dagger in off hand or use that weapon-spell in the off hand, should i go single weapon style or sward and bard (sword and shield, tho i do like me my bards.)... so many questions. I'm not at all far into the game yet, just hit level 9 finishing de arnise (which I always do first for some reason)

Jessica

Upon further review, I'm not as sure getting fighter levels, dualing before or after, is worthwhile, especially if I play as I have where anyone can acheive grandmastery with an editor like EEKeeper... I'm still hopeful someone can tell me how viable each option is to me regardless, but no answers have come so far.

semiticgoddess

A Shapeshifter/Fighter can wear no armor and can only use druid weapons: darts, slings, clubs, daggers, spears, staffs, and scimitars.

The natural Shapeshifter weapon may be classified as a dagger, but it should set your proficiency while equipped, so your proficiencies will have no effect on the werewolf attack.

Dual-wield with Belm, or the Shadow Thief Dagger, if you like. It will give you 5 APR without haste.

If we were to permit dualing into kits, I would dual-class into a Shapeshifter, rather than from Shapeshifter to fighter. This would give you a little extra HP and attacks per round. Dualing from Shapeshifter forces the uncomfortable decision of whether to dual at 13 for Greater Werewolf form, and incur a much larger XP gap before recovering your druid levels, as opposed to level 7 to 12.

If you don't have SCS installed, download it and install the Improved Shapeshifting component. It's much more user-friendly and a bit more powerful than vanilla.

Jessica

@semiticgod Well, thankfully due to EEKeeper I've experimented quickly to find out that limiting factor about no armor and only druid weapons for both multi and dual classing. So naturally that does make me wonder about when/why I would choose to go to/from fighter.
So the question for me really becomes, if I did go the route of Fighter -> Shapeshifter, would it be better to do 2 weapon fighting or sword and shield, or even single weapon style, knowing that the spell is a weapon that's a dagger? What other things am I possibly overlooking?

I'll repeat I'm using the G3 tweak pack for having fixed the shapeshifter kit. I hear occasionally it's overpowered in some ways, but other places say it's worse than regular fighter (which is pretty bad... considering many classes do fighter better than fighter >.>)

Jomberwig

Do you count as dual wielding when you have shape shifted into the wolf form then?? If you are getting the extra attack that is worth while, not something I have looked into, otherwise money is on single weapon style.

semiticgoddess

@Jomberwig: You do in fact dual-wield when shapeshifted if you have a second weapon in your shield slot. Your main hand weapon will have no effect (I've heard you can get passive benefits from main hand weapons while shapeshifted, by my experience says otherwise), but your off hand is different. With Belm in your shield slot, you will have another two attacks per round. Note that the attack bonus applies to your main hand, not your off hand.

Jessica

@Jomberwig I could count as dual wielding as shapeshifted, the shapeshift spell/weapon is a dagger, which can be moved

Quote from the G3 shapeshifter readme (http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-bg2tweaks.html):
"Shapeshifter abilities now create "symbolic paws". When you wield one you turn into a Werewolf, when you remove it you're human again. There are no possible exploits and you may choose whether to put the paw in your on-hand or off-hand. "
It's important to note the tables under that section about what is given (or should have been) that is going to actually be the basis, vs the actual amounts @semeticgod is likely hinting at.

With this as a weapon instead of a spell, I can move it to my off hand if desired, and use a 'better' weapon in my main hand.

Jomberwig

Yes the paw thing in the inventory rings a bell. Been a while since I've played much and nearly never with Shapeshifters- so might as well reap the benefits of dual wielding. I can't see single weapon style or shield + sword competing with belm combo, although that nice shield from drow shop might be worth considering for a while- well probably not... I'll leave it in your hands regardless of how it was intended to be used.

shylaman

My favorite shapeshifter "revision" was the one from refinements. It seemed closest to PnP, but I could get it to install on EE.

Jessica

Well, as much as I love being a druid, and it seems to be the best fit for me in general (armor type, weapon style/limitations, spell availability, and in v3.5-pathfinder a companion, tho for that i am loving summoner) I also learned just how bs it can be via black pits to have thieves and rogues with use any item... so now while it'd take a really long time to get there in the main game, it gives me something to look forward to.

Jasko

I used to give those paws to Jan or my char if he had UAI. Worked nice on a Swashbuckler. Main hand some debuffing weapon like haerdalis his weapon, offhand the werewolf paw. Or you could do many other combinations, adding belm also.