Help me out here

DragonKing

So I've been debating this for a while what I'm going to get next.

Icewind dale
Elemental; Sorcerer king
Wait for shadowrun Tokyo
Illogic album Diabolic
Canibus album Time Flys, Life Dies... Phoenix Rise
TechN9ne- special effects

My question here, what is different about IWD? Let's pretend I never played the original for a second, what actually seperates it from BG, besides the fact the BG arc is long over? I remember seeing something about having to create your own team, which leads me to ask, are there no party npc?

abacus

No party NPCs, fully created 6-person-posse.

Lower on role-play, heavy on mass-melee carnage.

Some of the classes are a bit more interesting than their BG counterparts (in particular Bards and Druids).

Magic plays a much smaller role, with fewer point-counterpoint mage duels.

DragonKing

abacus said:

No party NPCs, fully created 6-person-posse.

Lower on role-play, heavy on mass-melee carnage.

Some of the classes are a bit more interesting than their BG counterparts (in particular Bards and Druids).

Magic plays a much smaller role, with fewer point-counterpoint mage duels.

So... -1 point for the removal of role playing.

So how powerful are mages then, since mage and Sorcerer would be the only 2 classes I care about in the long run. Well, a better question is exactly how does the spell system look? Do we actually get more spells? Better scaling and less situational spells? Or at least some unique spells for every school or at least kit specific spells so we can fell more like a specific role?

atcDave

Mages are still very powerful and important. But because of the way battles can be long and epic you're much more likely to exhaust your spell-casters. Basically, you'll need a balanced party or things will get very difficult.

Essentially the game is one long tactical exorcise. There is still a good story, and plenty of good interactions. But you create your entire party.

DragonKing

atcDave said:

Mages are still very powerful and important. But because of the way battles can be long and epic you're much more likely to exhaust your spell-casters. Basically, you'll need a balanced party or things will get very difficult.

Essentially the game is one long tactical exorcise. There is still a good story, and plenty of good interactions. But you create your entire party.

I'm all for balanced parties. So the game doesn't like like a massive dungeon crawl or continuous battle after battle? I mean if I wanted that, I'd go play diablo or torch light. But the party itself is just an empty slate of ragdolls, much like how companions were in BG 1?

atcDave

It certainly is more Diablo like than BG. But there is a story, there is interaction with a colorful, atmospheric world. Many feel IWD is the most beautiful of the Infinity Engine games. I find it very immersive.
But your characters really are only what you picture in your head, there is no interaction within the party at all.

All I can really say is give it a try. It is its own unique thing. I love it. BG is more enduring, more "important". But IWD is a lot of fun and very well done.

moody_mage

SRR-HK, Should be out in a couple of weeks!

DragonKing

atcDave said:

It certainly is more Diablo like than BG. But there is a story, there is interaction with a colorful, atmospheric world. Many feel IWD is the most beautiful of the Infinity Engine games. I find it very immersive.
But your characters really are only what you picture in your head, there is no interaction within the party at all.

All I can really say is give it a try. It is its own unique thing. I love it. BG is more enduring, more "important". But IWD is a lot of fun and very well done.

So IWD is more in favor of power and meta gamers then, and less in favor of roleplayers.

decado said:

SRR-HK, Should be out in a couple of weeks!

I thought it was Tokyo? Anyways I can't wait to see it, return was like reading a book, Dragonfall increased the fun, so now I can't wait to play a mage/shaman in Hong Kong, I hope we still have the creator idol!!!

atcDave

Well I definitely don't consider myself a power gamer, I'm completely not interested in all the "best" "ultimate" or "most powerful" discussions that pop up around here. But tactical problem solving is a huge part of the game.

As far as role playing, that's up to you. There is absolutely a story to be told and choices to be made. I'd say the role playing is more open ended than in BG; the game will never tell you to make a "good" or "evil" decision, there's no reputation system, there's no NPCs to school you on how to keep them happy. But the choices a well played paladin will make should be very different from a well played assassin. It's just that the game leaves it all up to you. It is role playing in the purest sense.

DragonKing

atcDave said:

Well I definitely don't consider myself a power gamer, I'm completely not interested in all the "best" "ultimate" or "most powerful" discussions that pop up around here. But tactical problem solving is a huge part of the game.

As far as role playing, that's up to you. There is absolutely a story to be told and choices to be made. I'd say the role playing is more open ended than in BG; the game will never tell you to make a "good" or "evil" decision, there's no reputation system, there's no NPCs to school you on how to keep them happy. But the choices a well played paladin will make should be very different from a well played assassin. It's just that the game leaves it all up to you. It is role playing in the purest sense.

Do the choices any affect on the world at all, even to the npc you meet?

atcDave

There is impact on how your discussions go, but admittedly the story itself is fairly linear. So you will go through most of the same encounters and areas however you resolve them. For a serious role player that may mean the game has little replay value. But as I said, the story and back story are well conceived and should hold interest through at least one play through. Unless you really have no interest at all in the tactical dimension, which is truly the main Focus of the game.

Think of it as a complex tactical exercise with a good story and environment.

DragonKing

atcDave said:

There is impact on how your discussions go, but admittedly the story itself is fairly linear. So you will go through most of the same encounters and areas however you resolve them. For a serious role player that may mean the game has little replay value. But as I said, the story and back story are well conceived and should hold interest through at least one play through. Unless you really have no interest at all in the tactical dimension, which is truly the main Focus of the game.

Think of it as a complex tactical exercise with a good story and environment.

So basically its like Shadowrun Returns but in reverse. SRR had a very good story, world, and atmosphere, but the gameplay side was lacking. Pretty much anyonr who preferred to be deckers were just screwed.

I'm looking for something with a good balance of rp and gameplay, so I'll just put IWD on hold I guess.

byrne20

I always find that with IWD the rp comes more from your imagination. It was more about making up your own ideas about your party. I must admit i do sometimes miss the party banter, but the setting and the music score really make up for it with this game. It has real atmosphere about it. Same goes for IWD2. Loved the soundtracks to both of them.

semiticgoddess

Even if you don't play the game, I'd still recommend buying the soundtrack. It's made by Jeremy Soule, the same guy who does most of the music for the Elder Scrolls games.

Naveen

Yeah, I think I play just for the soundtrack and the snow. Also, the low-level fights are (and I don't use this word easily) epic, specially in IW2. You won't be fighting against gibberings and random kobolds, but squadrons of more or less well-organized enemies, with archers and the odd mage. It's a much more tactical game. At later high-levels I found the game too easy, but perhaps I power-gamed too much.

From a rp perspective, don't expect much, but there is, and it's subtle. There are some different dialogue options depending on you class, race, alignment, some stats and even gender. Here is a list (with spoilers): https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41754/special-class-race-specific-banter-guide-contains-spoilers/p1

Anyway, I like the idea that some alignments actually change your answers and you can't choose to behave like an ass if you are a paladin (or if you are an evil cleric you almost have to say some nasty things). If I remember correctly, in some situations the paladin can't actually accept a reward.

SionIV

To describe the Icewind Dale series with one word - Atmospheric.

DragonKing

Thanks for all the responses, I've come to believe that IWDEE isn't want I'm looking for at the moment, maybe later, but not now.

Belanos

DragonKing said:

Do we actually get more spells?

If you get the Enhanced Edition, most definitely. You''l have all the spells from BG1 & 2 plus additional spells that only existed in Icewind Dale. Mind you, the top level isn't quite as high as in BG2, so you'll lose out on a few spells because of that.

DragonKing said:

Thanks for all the responses, I've come to believe that IWDEE isn't want I'm looking for at the moment, maybe later, but not now.

I certainly hope that comparisons to Diablo had nothing to do with it. This game is nothing like that one at all, there's definitely more of a story to it rather than just being a hack and slash. And a fairly good story at that. It just leans more towards action, rather than role playing, than the BG games do.