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Need help in deciding class for trilogy run.

I have played through the trilogy many times using overpowered melee types (kensai, inquisitor, monk, berserker) and am looking for something a little different this time around.

I have it narrowed down to an archer, skald, or specialist mage but I have some doubts about all three.

The archer seems like a fun change of pace since I never used missles a whole lot in previous playthroughs but it seems like it would be too similar to a kensai in a high offense low defense sort of way.

I always wanted to try 2 mages (my pc being one of em) but I'm worried that this won't be viable especially in the first game, since bg seems to favor low thac0 melee dmg over all else.

The skald seems like fun but I hear bards are pretty terrible in general. I don't mind being a sidelined support char but I want my main to be useful as well.

I realize this is a little all over the place, but any insight would be appreciated.
BlackravenJuliusBorisov

Comments

  • d00der82d00der82 Member Posts: 21
    To elaborate on the mage comment I meant I wanted to have a 6 person party containing two full mages, one of them being my pc. I'm not looking to power game I just want an interesting but also viable class.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,457
    Yooouuuuu should play a Necromancer.
    Why a Necromancer?
    BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FLAVORFUL AND COOL.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Archer is superstrong in BG1 and much of BG2, and not as low defense as Kensai. They can still handle themselves fairly well in melee. With Ankheg armor, and several good stealth-allowing armors in BG2 all they miss out on is the extra 1/2 APR that a second proficiency pip in a melee weapon offers.
    Not sure whether they'll remain interesting during the entire trilogy, they might be a bit point-and-clicky. Take a look at their Called Shot. It progresses and ends up giving several (simultaneous) powerful effects. With high APR to stack penalties imposed on enemies, Called Shot can be a very good debilitator.

    Skald and Specialist Mage otoh require more micro-management, something that many players, including myself, appreciate in a PC. Skalds are particularly effective in melee-heavy parties because of the melee bonuses their song gives. You might consider installing the Rogue Rebalancing mod; it makes the different Bard songs a bit more powerful (except the Blade's song) and their HLAs more fitting for Bards.

    A Specialist Mage is inevitably vulnerable at the beginning, but if you know the game and/or if you have a party around to protect your character, he or she won't necessarily be dying all the time, and they will gradually grow into a superpowerful and versatile character.
    JuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Are you open for mods? I can wholeheartly recommend you Divine Remix and its Oozemaster druid kit component for something so completely different and downright alien that most people would likely run away in disgust.

    Oozemaster
    Requires Druid Remix component

    This component installs the Oozemaster druid kit.

    OOZEMASTER DRUID: Seeping out of every crack and crevice in the dungeon is some foul, monochromatic substance that adventurers wish wasn't there. Just when they get around the yellow mold, green slime drips from the ceiling. Quite often, such abominations well up naturally, but occasionally they are placed by a more deliberate hand--that of the oozemaster.

    The oozemaster is not a class for stable individuals. It involves relating one-on-one with things that relate to nothing at all. Unlike the kindred creatures of most druids, the oozemaster's charges have nothing to say. No one has yet developed a Speak with Ooze spell--or if someone has, the oozes haven't responded. Given that oozemasters exude everything but confidence, most of them have few sentient friends and even fewer guests. Thus, they tend to gibber and talk to themselves a lot.

    There are, however, substantial rewards to pursuing the path of the oozemaster. As their powers develop they find themselves taking on many of the characteristics of their favored creatures, although they become increasingly alien of mindset and find it harder to relate to others. By this point, though, they tend not to see this as much of a disadvantage.

    Advantages:
    - May use a Paralytic Touch attack once per day per 5 levels.
    This spell functions in the same manner to the second level mage spell Ghoul Touch
    - From level 5, the oozemaster's alien metabolism makes them immune to poison
    - From level 7, may shapeshift to the form of a mustard jelly. This ability is useable 3 times per day
    - From level 9, oozemasters become immune to acid
    - From level 11, the oozemaster's alien metabolism renders them immune to disease
    - From level 15, oozemasters become immune to blindness, sleep, paralysis, stunning and critical hits as they become one with the ooze and lack a discernable internal anatomy

    Disadvantages:
    - Do not gain other standard druidic special abilities (such as shapeshifting into wolves or bears, or the elemental resistance gained at high levels)
    - Suffers a -1 penalty to Charisma at levels 1, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 15 as they become increasingly separated from a humanoid mindset and their features continue to distort

    Be an oddball. Or a slimeball. Or possibly both. In any case, your CHARNAME will become wonderfully sticky with ooze and mucus all over the place. :)


    Other than that, the Cleric/Thief multiclass (racial restricted to Gnomes and Half-Orcs) is a lot of fun as well. Especially combined with clubs!
    SethDavisBlackraven
  • MortaelMortael Member Posts: 33
    Solo Sorcerer. How can you underrate a caster? xD I usually pick an Elf as my racial heritage so that I can make use of the extra Dex bonuses, A. Armor Class and B. darts. With a combo of magic missile/dart you can do quite a lot of DPS, with a good APR. Darts naturally get more attacks, and when you've exhausted those you can launch a magic missile at your enemy. I tend to stick to the wilderness close to Candlekeep to up my levels a bit until adventuring on until I hit level 3/4. Spook/Sleep can be useful (I prefer spook in the long run, as it upgrades with you as you level up) Eventually by the time you hit max level, you can cheese the game. (Provided you've picked good spells)

    Also, be sure to pick up the ring at the Friendly Arm Inn, as it'll increase the number of level 1 spells you can cast, very helpful early-game.
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    If you want something fun to play but not overpowered, try a thief kit. Shadowdancers are a lot of fun.

    Archers are very powerfull. By level 3, an elven archer will have a stellar THAC0 in BG1 compared to others. However I kind of got bored with it in BG2. It's still over-powered and maybe not what you want.

    I you make an archer, I suggest hobgoblins as favored enemies in BG1, because there are a lot of them, usually in groups, often with bows. With your bonus you can usually kill one with each arrow. It's quite fun to hide in shadow and circle around them to pick them out one by one.

    Skalds have a useful song, but you can't do anything while you sing and it's just not that interesting to play. I think Blade kit is more fun. Or make a F/M/T; a better bard, without the actual barding.

    Having 2 mages in BG1 is not a problem. In my current game I have Neera and Dynaheir with Viconia, Imoen and Minsc (I'm a halfling kensai). I only have 2 guys with decent THAC0 and no one can wear heavy armor (I play Minsc as a real ranger, with studded leather). Sleep, horror, web, etc plus ranged attacks are more useful than melee fighters. Eventually you have plenty of wands and it's really useful to have multiple spell casters.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Out of the three you mention, I personally have more fun with the Skald.

    He can be your second spell caster, Second tank, Second archer all in one. He doesnt excel in one area but is well rounded to handle many different situations.

    He peters off a bit on ToB, but that just gives the game a little bit more a challenge than anything.
    JuliusBorisov
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited August 2015
    Pick the Skald, he is the most fun to play and very powerful. The song in itself is completely ridiculous in BG1 and very good in BG2, it only starts to fall of a bit in ToB. The bonuses you get on low level are powerful to the point of breaking the game with a party.

    You'll also have access to some powerful arcane spell, you'll be a higher level spell caster than a mage/sorcerer. You'll be able to identify pretty much everything just by looking at it, pick up a crossbow and you'll be good at ranged (better than a rogue). As a bard you'll also have pick pocket meaning you don't have to put skills there on your rogue. There are also some awesome bard only items, the gloves in BG2 are amazing.

    And last but not least the bard stronghold in BG2 is the best stronghold in the game.

    Bards are jack of all trades, I'll agree, but that means they never get boring.
    JuliusBorisov
  • T2avT2av Member Posts: 202
    Shadowdancer. Backstab, poof, backstab, poof backstab.

    I be back stabbing and backstabbing, oh you're going to throw a spell at me.?.. Poof! Backstab!

    *hide in shadows has failed*


    Runaway!
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Avengers also have a lot of flavor, with more variety than your usual druid. Same goes for Bounty Hunters. Both would offer a new challenge for you.

    Or...

    If you want something really, REALLY new, you might try out the Phase Spider Kit. It's not posted online yet, because @Musigny is helping me fix up a mage version first, but the kit can currently be applied to any base class besides a mage. You could try a Phase Spider thief, fighter, cleric, whatever. It's untested for EE and BGT, I fear, but I've played through BG2 and ToB with a Phase Spider Fighter/Mage/Thief (you have to use Shadowkeeper or another program to apply the kit to a multiclass, a fairly simple process that I can explain if you're interested) and it should be balanced for BGTutu as well. It's designed to work with Sword Coast Strategems, which I would recommend installing even if you don't want to play a spider.

    The Phase Spider kit is very mobile and responsive, and has some weird spider-themed abilities and drawbacks. Regardless of which class you apply it to, it should play as a fundamentally different character type. It might be too different for your tastes, but if you're looking for a new experience, this is probably the strangest kit you can find for BG2.

    Advantages and Disadvantages:

    Alien Form:
    Immune to poison, web, and entangle
    Immune to humanoid-specific spells (Hold Person, Charm Person, etc.)
    -1 penalty to Intelligence
    +3 to save vs. death
    Cannot use gauntlets, boots, helmets, rings, or armor heavier than studded leather, as they cannot fit on any part of the spider's body. Bracers and ioun stones may still be worn.
    Arachnophobia: +2 to AC and saving throws vs. humanoids
    Phase Spider thieves cannot set normal thief traps
    Natural weapon (dagger proficiency): 1d6 piercing damage, save vs. death or suffer 3 damage per round for three rounds; 15% chance of webbing target for one round on a failed save vs. breath at +1; strikes as +1 weapon. The weapon is an equippable dagger that the spider can conjure via an innate ability. The weapon upgrades to +2 at level 13 and +3 at level 17.
    Phase Spider monks gain most normal monk bonuses, but deal less damage with their attacks, gain Stunning Blow at half the rate, and only receive 2% magic resistance per level after level 14. Their attacks also deal piercing rather than crushing damage.

    Alien Affinity:
    Can cast Dimension Door at will, whether as an innate ability, a mage spell, or a cleric or druid spell (replaces Detect Evil and Infravision)
    Base 5 AC, -1 AC vs. missile and piercing
    Infravision
    +25% to hide in shadows and move silently
    At level 2, can charm an enemy spider for 2 turns, 3 times per day. A spider that fails its save cannot be charmed again.
    Can cast Web Tangle once per day per four levels. Web Tangle webs the target for 15 seconds on a failed save vs. breath.
    Can set special traps once per day per five levels. Non-thieves have a base 50% set traps chance, which increases by 10 every five levels. The special traps poison and web the target depending on the spider's level:
    Level 1: Webs target for 1 round on a failed save vs. breath; deals 1 damage per round for two rounds, and an additional 3 damage per round for two rounds on a failed save vs. death.
    Level 10: Webs target for 2 rounds on a failed save vs. breath; deals 3 damage per round for three rounds, and an additional 3 damage per second for two rounds on a failed save vs. death.
    Level 15: Webs target for 3 rounds on a failed save vs. breath; deals 6 damage per round for three rounds, and an additional 2 damage per second for two rounds on a failed save vs. death.
    Once the target is webbed once, it cannot be webbed again for another 3 rounds.
    Can use Poison Weapon once per day per six levels, starting at level 1 with one use per day. The ability works as an Assassin's poison, but only lasts for 2 rounds, and the effects do not stack.

    Thumbless:
    Cleric, druid, and mage spells are cast as though the spider were two levels lower. At levels 5, 10, and 15, this penalty increases to -3, -4, and finally -5 to caster level.
    -15% penalty to spell duration for cleric, druid, and mage spells (innate spells are not affected)
    -1 penalty to casting speed
    -2 penalty to attack speed
    -2 penalty to hit and damage with weapons besides its natural attack
    Stunted THAC0 development: THAC0 increases by a one point penalty at level 10. This stacks with the Phase Spider's -2 to hit at level 1.
    -50% penalty to open locks and pickpocket
    -1 penalty to backstab multiplier, if any

    Crazy Legs:
    Improved Alacrity
    Immune to casting speed bonus (such as from the Robe of Vecna or Amulet of power)
    Free Action
    Improved movement rate
    +1 attack per round
    +1 bonus to Dexterity
    Suffers no THAC0 penalties from dual-wielding

    Culture Shock:
    -3 penalty to Charisma
    -1 penalty to Wisdom

    Note: Since it is not possible to create a kit for the monk class, the Phase Spider Monk kit is instead coded as a ranger kit, so that it can use the stealth ability like a normal monk. To create a Phase Spider Monk, create a ranger during character creation and select the Phase Spider Monk kit, beneath the original ranger kits. The kit gains a +33% XP bonus so that it levels as quickly as a monk would, and receives saving throw bonuses and penalties at certain levels so that its saving throws are equal to a monk's. The monk's item restrictions are also implemented. The only major difference is that a Phase Spider Monk receives the ranger stronghold rather than the fighter stronghold.


    Kit Description:

    Phase Spiders are giant, predatory, generally non-social arachnids with the unique ability to "phase" in and out of the Ethereal Plane. Phase Spiders use this ability to hunt, approaching their prey from the Ethereal Plane and retreating while their poison takes effect. Some rare Phase Spiders, however, also possess unusually human-like traits: sentience, a social instinct, higher intelligence, some magical abilities beyond phasing, and even the ability to speak Common and other humanoid languages. Why these more intelligent spiders are born to otherwise non-sentient monsters--whether the result of drider lineage, some peculiar magical aberration, or simply the result of natural variation among the species--remains unknown.

    These "semi-human" Phase Spiders may attempt to integrate into human society, whether in search of companionship or to develop their abilities, but as dangerous monsters in the eyes of humankind, they are poorly received by virtually all groups besides the drow and some more open-minded or very trusting adventuring bands. Phase Spiders may cast Dimension Door at will and can train as any class, from the art of war to arcane magic, but in these fields--all developed by and designed for humanoids--their alien physiology is a constant obstacle to their progress.

    If you're interested in trying it out, download the attached .rar file and unzip it in your BG2 directory. Run "setup-PhaseSpiderKit" and the WeiDu program will guide you through the installation process, like any other BG2 mod. You can then select the Phase Spider kit on character creation, after choosing your base class.
    KamigoroshiBlackravenJuliusBorisov
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    T2av said:

    Shadowdancer. Backstab, poof, backstab, poof backstab.

    I be back stabbing and backstabbing, oh you're going to throw a spell at me.?.. Poof! Backstab!

    *hide in shadows has failed*


    Runaway!

    Shadowdancer 13, dual to fighter.

    It's my current run and its great.

    For BG1 you backstab-poof. It takes some timing, but you can be invulnerable to everything...but if you mess it up you are squishy enough to die. So it's fun.

    Hit 13 (that's when you max your backstab and have enough skills to reliably hide) and you dual class. Your fighter will level up quickly with all of the xp floating around, but you won't get your shadowdancer skills back for a long time (it took me all of chapter 1, chapter 2, and watcher's keep). But during that time, you are still a fighter. I found that grand mastery in katanas, with belm offhand, meant that Charname was pumping out 5 attacks per round, hitting hard...and when you add in improved haste it's killer. So it's a fun change of pace, as by the time you are tired of the shadow dancer, you have something new.

    Then you get the shadow dancer levels back. Suddenly you have a 5APR per round fighter, who hits like a truck, who can shadow dance. It makes for a combat monster. Even enemies who can't be backstabbed need to fear someone like him, because of the fighter levels. 5APR, improved haste, critical strike, start with a backstab. Explode something, then hide and repeat.
    BlackravenJuliusBorisov
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    If you want something that's more different than what you've played, mage would be the most different. Let's face it, archer's just hitting stuff from further away, and Bard's are much more fun played like fighter/mages. Otherwise your option as a bard is just backup and standing around singing, and let everyone else do the real work, or working as a caster and abusing rest. You could mix it up and make the mage a dual class. Maybe start as rogue or cleric and dual to mage, or perhaps do the red dragon disciple kit instead. Necromancers are fun too. Fighter/mages and their dual counterpart are loads of fun, but might not be different enough from what you've played, or too similar to a bard if you'd rather go that route.

    2 Mages is totally viable during the first game. There are some fight's where it might make it a bit tougher than having a warrior in one of their places, but a huge amount of fights are a cakewalk with a couple mages. Early on when mages are super weak, that might make it tougher, but at low levels the sleep spell can be an instant win the fight spell. Of course as mages get more powerful, you can never have too many.

    For my Bards I normally go blade, since the dual wielding and offensive spin helps make up for their lack of extra attacks, especially if you pick short swords or scimitars. Bards can potentially be extremely powerful, but it requires a lot of micromanagement, as others have stated. With rogues you really feel the lack of extra attacks late BG2 and all through TOB.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    My ONLY issue with my archers, is that I spend all of BG1 working on Longbows, but then in BG2, you REALLY need to get shortbows unfortunately.

    Alternatively, you could go shortbow from the start, and not have that problem. Just feels odd to me =/
  • d00der82d00der82 Member Posts: 21
    Thanks for all the feedback :smile:. It seems skald is controversial around here but I might just go with that...... Tho playing a conjurer is still intriguing.

    Welp archers out but i still can't decide between the other two.
    JuliusBorisov
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Dragon Disciple:
    18 constitution
    +2 from class
    +2 from Hell
    +1 from Lum
    +1 from book
    +1 from Ion stone
    25 constitution (regen 6hp a turn)

    Throw in ring of regeneration, ring of Gax for some amazing regeneration. Add in stone skins and other defensive buffs and you have a great tank. Once the for gets through your stone skins you pop a new one and almost immediately regen all the damage. All the while you breathe fire on them and hit them with spells
    Dragonspear
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    regens dont stack, gaxx is 2hp/round or 20hp per turn. constitution is pretty much there for health bonuses and overnight healing.

    i would suggest a sorcerer, considering you have played classes like kensai or berserker you may be positively surprised how much more powerful other classes are. Anything with bow specialization+ will work too for bg1 splendidly.

    i wouldnt play a Skald - its greatest asset is the song - aka staying still and doing nothing.
    semiticgoddess
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    You should know mages are absolute beasts in BG2, but even in BG1 they are very powerful if you are willing to rest. Sleep lets you demolish most of BG1 by itself and you should have that leaving with Gorion.
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