Taking the discussion here in a different direction.
- Minsc is the most overrated, overblown character I have ever had the displeasure of playing as in a video game and I once save-scummed to briefly include Quayle in my party in the first Baldur's Gate. His Berserk ability has the potential for friendly fire, his constant yelling about "buttkicking for goodness" is obnoxious in the extreme and his talking to and about his hamster grated my nerves like a freaking cheese grater. The worst part is that the second game basically forces you to bring him along during the prologue and acts like the two of you are great friends and partners in fighting evil. Newsflash, BioWare: I DON'T LIKE HIM!
- The uneven priorities given to the various romances is unforgivable. Jaheira got an entire questline of her own tied intimately to the romance, while Aerie's was reduced to you telling her to quit her whining and Viconia's... the quality of hers is debatable. Meanwhile only Anomen's romance remained for the ladies, and Haer'Dalis' and Valygar's romances were straight-up left out of the game. My God, who was responsible for that?!
- Throne of Bhaal should have had more story. The most interesting and in-depth part of it is hanging out with Sarevok and possibly turning him into a good guy. A few souped-up boss battles are all well and good, but I personally would have appreciated getting to know Charname's siblings a bit more. It might make me care more about fighting them. Hell, even learning something more about Amelyssan would have been nice. And don't even get me started on some of the epilogue slides...
I get how people can enjoy Minsc, but I personally don't like him as a primary character. He is pure comic relief, with a side of unintentional tragedy due to his mental disability which is constantly overlooked. I honestly kind of resent that he is considered a canonical companion in BG2 when there are much more interesting people to choose from. He is a one note cartoon whose appeal has long faded for me.
The game couldn't even make any substantial content for him. There is no depth to his character at all. It's jarring when most other characters in the game have some level of depth to them, even if it's not immense.
Yeah...that's the difference between now and then. At the time we the people just thought it funny, to have someone physically strong, but not the brightest in the bulp department. We enjoyed him being sympathetic to his small comrade and liked him for his honesty/sincerity. End of story.
Nowadays he is abused as "comic relief" and misreprensation of mentally disabled people or so. Way to overinterpret everything. (He just got too many hits on his head; ever listened to some soccerplayer from that time?)
And no, you do not have to drag him along, you can just ignore him and waltz along.
Yeah...that's the difference between now and then. At the time we the people just thought it funny, to have someone physically strong, but not the brightest in the bulp department. We enjoyed him being sympathetic to his small comrade and liked him for his honesty/sincerity. End of story.
Nowadays he is abused as "comic relief" and misreprensation of mentally disabled people or so. Way to overinterpret everything. (He just got too many hits on his head; ever listened to some soccerplayer from that time?)
And no, you do not have to drag him along, you can just ignore him and waltz along.
Ahem. Three things.
While I don't begrudge you your right to like Minsc if he is your cup of tea (he isn't mine, as you can see), this is the Unpopular opinions thread, so you're bound to run into some you don't agree with. I spied three I didn't agree with on the very first page.
Yeah, see, therein lies the rub. Minsc is more or less a one-trick pony. Okay, I'll be fair - a two-trick pony ("buttkicking" and "hamsters"). And the problem with one-trick ponies (and their two-trick cousins) is that they can only do one (or two) trick(s). And if you don't like their tricks, for whatever reason, their presence is inevitably going to get really grating. And me? I don't like Minsc's tricks. There were and are characters who did and do the same thing he did without the crazy, and I'm grateful for their inclusion.
Are we talking about the same game? Because I know he's completely optional in the first game, but in the second? They rather ham-fistedly tell you that he was in your party whether you like it or not, and the prologue is leagues harder if you don't take him and Jaheira along. I know this as someone who has tried.
I've long since stopped bothering with the prologue in favor of Dungeon Be Gone, so I feel no particular compunction to even approach Minsc and Jaheira. They'll just have to starve, I guess.
Yeah...that's the difference between now and then. At the time we the people just thought it funny, to have someone physically strong, but not the brightest in the bulp department. We enjoyed him being sympathetic to his small comrade and liked him for his honesty/sincerity. End of story.
Nowadays he is abused as "comic relief" and misreprensation of mentally disabled people or so. Way to overinterpret everything. (He just got too many hits on his head; ever listened to some soccerplayer from that time?)
And no, you do not have to drag him along, you can just ignore him and waltz along.
Yeah, as HalfOrcBeastmaster, this is the unpopular opinions thread, so I'm not exactly looking for a debate against people who hold the majority opinion. And I'm actually pretty aware of the fact that I don't have to drag him around. I've played this game for over ten years.
If you really want to delve into Minsc's character and how it relates to the mentally handicapped, I would suggest the recent D&D comic series as a good summary of how seriously he's taken. He is basically reanimated centuries after everyone he knows has died (except Coran) and mistakes contemporary people as people he knew in his former life. No one is actually able to make him realize that he's been dead for decades and that he's in a new world, it's all played for laughs. The whole point of his character in this comic series is to get people to buy it. There's no actual reason why Minsc needs to be involved other than the publishers knew he was popular and it was easy to write him.
Judging by the reasons I've seen posted on this forum (humans are adaptable, the other races more specialized/focused) the game is completely ass backwards. Humans should be the only multi-classers, and everyone else should have to dual class.
I demand the game be changed, with no options for anyone to play it the original way. All should have to deal with this new alteration to the game mechanic because I say so.
If all characters found in any kind of literature, TV shows, games, etc. had to be depicted as perfect in order to not offend someone, somewhere, entertainment would be boring indeed.
Joffrey, from Game of Thrones:
Excuse me miss, but I have your father’s head on a pike outside. Would you mind taking a look? That is of course, unless you find such things offensive.
Sansa:
Actually they are rather a trigger for me…
Joffrey:
Oh, I am so sorry! I deeply regret bringing the subject up.
I agree on barkskin, but what use are goodberries?
If you are one of those players that kinda efficiency crazy and hate to over heal, they are good to top off those few hitpoints or get in range of a larger heal to top them off.
I agree on barkskin, but what use are goodberries?
If you are one of those players that kinda efficiency crazy and hate to over heal, they are good to top off those few hitpoints or get in range of a larger heal to top them off.
Ah, I see.
In BG2 I swap around a ring of regeneration for that. But I can see how that could be useful in BG1.
I agree on barkskin, but what use are goodberries?
Basically, its 5 hp healing out of combat. Now thats less than Cure Light Wounds, but the berries are permanent, so if you go through a rest cycle without using them, then it adds up.
Also theres not a lot going on for druids 2nd level spells, so I like at least getting some healing out of it. I can see why most people don't like having to click 30 times for 30 health though, it just doesn't bother me for some reason.
Haven't got my druid to SoA yet though; I imagine they'll become less appealing once I get a ways through that.
Basically, its 5 hp healing out of combat. Now thats less than Cure Light Wounds, but the berries are permanent, so if you go through a rest cycle without using them, then it adds up.
Also theres not a lot going on for druids 2nd level spells, so I like at least getting some healing out of it. I can see why most people don't like having to click 30 times for 30 health though, it just doesn't bother me for some reason.
Haven't got my druid to SoA yet though; I imagine they'll become less appealing once I get a ways through that.
In the second game, pickpocket Ribald's Ring of Regeneration as soon as you arrive in Waukeen's Promenade. No arguments, just do it. That one item is so good you almost don't need a healer in the second game, just rest with it on and you're fully healed.
Mins isn't a powerhorse. He's more useful using stealth and two weapon style. He IS a Ranger, after all.
I am unable to understand why people like to overlook those two free pipes in two weapon style. And his racial enemy (vampire) plus his pipes in maces makes me dream about getting the Mace of Disruption ASAP.
In my runs I seldom use Minsc, but everytime I do I give him Daystar and the Mace of Disruption. He goes in stealth to the middle of the vampires and BOOM! Good morning, Vietnam!
Unpopular opinions? I'm not sure how unpopular my opinion is today, yet I know many people don't agree with that. So...
I think that the plotline of BG2 is rather weak and isn't very well paced. It is the only IE game, which story disappointed me. In BG1 I was intrigued by mysterious dreams, strange armoured villan and conspiracy threatening Sword Coast. Icewind Dale had very simple plotline, but it also had great atmosphere of an adventure, and that final plot twist in the ending cinematic really gave me chills. Planescape.... well, it is Planescape, I felt tears appearing in my eyes, when Nameless One was saying final farewell to his companions. And Baldur's gate 2... I don't know, but for some reasons it doesn't work for me.
Here are some of the problems in my opinion:
The game doesn't have a proper prologue and introduction, Irenicus dungeon looks more like a location, which fits later part of the game to me, but not the prologue.
After arriving at Athkatla, the story disappears for a very long time (almost half of the game), and, strictly speaking, Charname's motivation to get to Spellhold at any cost doesn't look very convincing. Rescueing Imoen? But what if I'm not "good-aligned hero"? If I don't want to rescue her? Finding Irenicus? What for? The game tells me that I "must" find this wizard, whom I only saw briefly in the prologue, but doesn't properly explains why should I do this. It looks kinda forced to me. BG2 really needs a good "pre-Irenicus Dungeon" chapter which would build up the beginning of a story properly and create stronger connection to Imoen&Irenicus. By the end of Ch2 I almost forget who they are, and why should I even bother finding them.
Saving our soul didn't turn out very dramatic in my opinion. It doesn't have really big impact on the story, most of the post-Spellhold story looks like a regular fantasy adventure, I don't feel that I must hurry to save myself.
The actual story about Irenicus and elves. It isn't bad, but it looks more like a big side-quest rather than an actual main story. During Chapter 2 we already encountered powerful enemies, fallen gods, immortal mages, visited other planes etc. The story of Irenicus could easily become another major side quest, while, for example, Firkraag, Lavok or Unseeing Eye could become main antagonists of the game. Why not? Their plotlines all have potential for a bigger story. It is rather ironical in fact, the high quality of BG2 side quests makes main quest look rather pale.
Irenicus himself seems very overrated to me. A typical fantasy villain who seeks revenge and power, plus his connection to the whole Saga is very loose. It is another problem in my opinion - the storyline of Children of Bhaal doesn't get significant development in BG2. Instead we get rather clished tale of another evil wizard, which, like I said before, doesn't differ much from sidequests. I like BG2, it is one of the games from my childhood, but I always had a feeling that it is more, well, "sandbox", rather than plot-oriented game, even though it may sound weird.
The game has good story elements here and there, but they somehow don't tie up into one impressive story arc.
Sure, every game has flaws in the plot, but it seems strange to me when people critisize stories of other RPGs (such as Neverwinter Nights 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity and others) and praise "best epic storytelling ever" of BG2.
I'm not saying that I'm right, but that's how I feel about BG2. Not sure if I explained it very well though.
I am unable to understand why people like to overlook those two free pipes in two weapon style. And his racial enemy (vampire) plus his pipes in maces makes me dream about getting the Mace of Disruption ASAP.
In my runs I seldom use Minsc, but everytime I do I give him Daystar and the Mace of Disruption. He goes in stealth to the middle of the vampires and BOOM! Good morning, Vietnam!
And before he gets the mace, his bezerk ability makes him immune to level drain.
I like to have him dual wield a mace and foebane (he need some kind of big sword at least). The bummer is that it takes so long to gain proficiency point.
1) Sarevok is a better villain than Irenicus. Sarevok is more personal, more intimidating, more scheming (ironically), more badass and more interesting. He is also my favorite joinable NPC. He combines brawn and brains, instead of being another powerful mage.
2) I like Throne of Bhaal. Especially with Ascension. It's not as well polished and development but I really like the epic feeling that the Bhaalspawns are cauing chaos, they're all your "brothers and sisters" and it's basically a race to the finish line. Amelyssan is also fine as a villain. She could be more developed but she is relevant to the plot instead of being an outsider and you feel like you're fighting a demigod. With Ascension it becomes even more epic.
3) I like Aerie. She undergoes a huge character development from fragile and pathetic, to strong and badass (at least when you romance her), with a ton of spells at her disposal. She also has a pretty tragic background that left a mark on her, literally, emotionally and psychologically. Watching her get over that and becoming more confident and more powerful is great, to say the least.
I agree with your assessment generally. I'm not sure if BG2's main story is one of its higher praised elements, though. It's not a highlight for me, specifically for the reasons you state, even though Irenicus as a character is chilling. It's mostly the voice acting and some of the dialogue, as he's cliche in many respects.
The strength of BG2 for me is the gameplay, the characters, and the fun side quests. The main plot really isn't a strength of the game. Is that an unpopular opinion?
The strength of BG2 for me is the gameplay, the characters, and the fun side quests. The main plot really isn't a strength of the game. Is that an unpopular opinion?
That seems fair. Of course, it comes up rather a lot, to be honest, so I'm not sure it's unpopular, at least these days. That said, I also am not sure it makes that much of a difference, in part for the reasons you list. I mean, what's more important, to have an intriguing plot, or to have good characters to interact with? I'd say the latter is probably going to provide more replay value, since let's be honest, a good plot may be able to hook you more than once, but it won't surprise you more than once. So when it comes down to it, Baldur's Gate 2's superior NPCs are going to draw me back more often than Baldur's Gate's iron crisis, every time.
I agree with your assessment generally. I'm not sure if BG2's main story is one of its higher praised elements, though. It's not a highlight for me, specifically for the reasons you state, even though Irenicus as a character is chilling. It's mostly the voice acting and some of the dialogue, as he's cliche in many respects.
The strength of BG2 for me is the gameplay, the characters, and the fun side quests. The main plot really isn't a strength of the game. Is that an unpopular opinion?
My opinion is the same - the gameplay, the characters and the sidequests are the highlight of BG2.
Yet I saw (and still see) very many people praising the "epic", "incredible", "fantastic", "deep", "engrossing", "perfectly paced" storyline (not to mention hype around Irenicus), which they call superior to almost all other RPGs. I understand that nostalgic emotions play significant role here, however it always confuses me.
3) I like Aerie. She undergoes a huge character development from fragile and pathetic, to strong and badass (at least when you romance her), with a ton of spells at her disposal. She also has a pretty tragic background that left a mark on her, literally, emotionally and psychologically. Watching her get over that and becoming more confident and more powerful is great, to say the least.
My "crime" is even "worse". Not only I adore Aerie, but I also don't like Viconia.
Comments
The game couldn't even make any substantial content for him. There is no depth to his character at all. It's jarring when most other characters in the game have some level of depth to them, even if it's not immense.
Nowadays he is abused as "comic relief" and misreprensation of mentally disabled people or so. Way to overinterpret everything. (He just got too many hits on his head; ever listened to some soccerplayer from that time?)
And no, you do not have to drag him along, you can just ignore him and waltz along.
If you really want to delve into Minsc's character and how it relates to the mentally handicapped, I would suggest the recent D&D comic series as a good summary of how seriously he's taken. He is basically reanimated centuries after everyone he knows has died (except Coran) and mistakes contemporary people as people he knew in his former life. No one is actually able to make him realize that he's been dead for decades and that he's in a new world, it's all played for laughs. The whole point of his character in this comic series is to get people to buy it. There's no actual reason why Minsc needs to be involved other than the publishers knew he was popular and it was easy to write him.
I demand the game be changed, with no options for anyone to play it the original way. All should have to deal with this new alteration to the game mechanic because I say so.
Joffrey, from Game of Thrones:
Excuse me miss, but I have your father’s head on a pike outside. Would you mind taking a look? That is of course, unless you find such things offensive.
Sansa:
Actually they are rather a trigger for me…
Joffrey:
Oh, I am so sorry! I deeply regret bringing the subject up.
In BG2 I swap around a ring of regeneration for that. But I can see how that could be useful in BG1.
Also theres not a lot going on for druids 2nd level spells, so I like at least getting some healing out of it. I can see why most people don't like having to click 30 times for 30 health though, it just doesn't bother me for some reason.
Haven't got my druid to SoA yet though; I imagine they'll become less appealing once I get a ways through that.
For nostalgia's sake, I just played through BG2 with a very typical party: Minsc, Jaheira, Aerie and Imoen (picked up after Yoshimo drops out).
Minsc is a pain to manage. I don't really enjoy all the extra work to keep him alive an useful.
Jaheir is actually better than Minsc melee wise, but not hugely useful. She was easier to keep alive and does get a useful item from her quest...
Aerie is pretty powerful but also very fragile.
Of the four Imoen is the most effective since I'm not playing a mage. She is pretty good one.
I am unable to understand why people like to overlook those two free pipes in two weapon style. And his racial enemy (vampire) plus his pipes in maces makes me dream about getting the Mace of Disruption ASAP.
In my runs I seldom use Minsc, but everytime I do I give him Daystar and the Mace of Disruption. He goes in stealth to the middle of the vampires and BOOM! Good morning, Vietnam!
I think that the plotline of BG2 is rather weak and isn't very well paced. It is the only IE game, which story disappointed me. In BG1 I was intrigued by mysterious dreams, strange armoured villan and conspiracy threatening Sword Coast. Icewind Dale had very simple plotline, but it also had great atmosphere of an adventure, and that final plot twist in the ending cinematic really gave me chills. Planescape.... well, it is Planescape, I felt tears appearing in my eyes, when Nameless One was saying final farewell to his companions. And Baldur's gate 2... I don't know, but for some reasons it doesn't work for me.
Here are some of the problems in my opinion:
The game doesn't have a proper prologue and introduction, Irenicus dungeon looks more like a location, which fits later part of the game to me, but not the prologue.
After arriving at Athkatla, the story disappears for a very long time (almost half of the game), and, strictly speaking, Charname's motivation to get to Spellhold at any cost doesn't look very convincing. Rescueing Imoen? But what if I'm not "good-aligned hero"? If I don't want to rescue her?
Finding Irenicus? What for? The game tells me that I "must" find this wizard, whom I only saw briefly in the prologue, but doesn't properly explains why should I do this. It looks kinda forced to me.
BG2 really needs a good "pre-Irenicus Dungeon" chapter which would build up the beginning of a story properly and create stronger connection to Imoen&Irenicus. By the end of Ch2 I almost forget who they are, and why should I even bother finding them.
Saving our soul didn't turn out very dramatic in my opinion. It doesn't have really big impact on the story, most of the post-Spellhold story looks like a regular fantasy adventure, I don't feel that I must hurry to save myself.
The actual story about Irenicus and elves. It isn't bad, but it looks more like a big side-quest rather than an actual main story. During Chapter 2 we already encountered powerful enemies, fallen gods, immortal mages, visited other planes etc. The story of Irenicus could easily become another major side quest, while, for example, Firkraag, Lavok or Unseeing Eye could become main antagonists of the game. Why not? Their plotlines all have potential for a bigger story. It is rather ironical in fact, the high quality of BG2 side quests makes main quest look rather pale.
Irenicus himself seems very overrated to me. A typical fantasy villain who seeks revenge and power, plus his connection to the whole Saga is very loose. It is another problem in my opinion - the storyline of Children of Bhaal doesn't get significant development in BG2. Instead we get rather clished tale of another evil wizard, which, like I said before, doesn't differ much from sidequests. I like BG2, it is one of the games from my childhood, but I always had a feeling that it is more, well, "sandbox", rather than plot-oriented game, even though it may sound weird.
The game has good story elements here and there, but they somehow don't tie up into one impressive story arc.
Sure, every game has flaws in the plot, but it seems strange to me when people critisize stories of other RPGs (such as Neverwinter Nights 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity and others) and praise "best epic storytelling ever" of BG2.
I'm not saying that I'm right, but that's how I feel about BG2. Not sure if I explained it very well though.
I like to have him dual wield a mace and foebane (he need some kind of big sword at least). The bummer is that it takes so long to gain proficiency point.
Sarevok is more personal, more intimidating, more scheming (ironically), more badass and more interesting.
He is also my favorite joinable NPC. He combines brawn and brains, instead of being another powerful mage.
2) I like Throne of Bhaal. Especially with Ascension. It's not as well polished and development but I really like the epic feeling that the Bhaalspawns are cauing chaos, they're all your "brothers and sisters" and it's basically a race to the finish line.
Amelyssan is also fine as a villain. She could be more developed but she is relevant to the plot instead of being an outsider and you feel like you're fighting a demigod.
With Ascension it becomes even more epic.
3) I like Aerie. She undergoes a huge character development from fragile and pathetic, to strong and badass (at least when you romance her), with a ton of spells at her disposal.
She also has a pretty tragic background that left a mark on her, literally, emotionally and psychologically.
Watching her get over that and becoming more confident and more powerful is great, to say the least.
I agree with your assessment generally. I'm not sure if BG2's main story is one of its higher praised elements, though. It's not a highlight for me, specifically for the reasons you state, even though Irenicus as a character is chilling. It's mostly the voice acting and some of the dialogue, as he's cliche in many respects.
The strength of BG2 for me is the gameplay, the characters, and the fun side quests. The main plot really isn't a strength of the game. Is that an unpopular opinion?
the ammount of time and mouse clicks every prebuff is insanely tedious. My finger is sore. Even with alacrity.
Yet I saw (and still see) very many people praising the "epic", "incredible", "fantastic", "deep", "engrossing", "perfectly paced" storyline (not to mention hype around Irenicus), which they call superior to almost all other RPGs. I understand that nostalgic emotions play significant role here, however it always confuses me.
My "crime" is even "worse". Not only I adore Aerie, but I also don't like Viconia.