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Elminster of Shadowdale

BubbleboyBubbleboy Member Posts: 68
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Ok, so what's up with this guy? I just read The making of a mage.
If i remember correctly the BG1 handbook it described him as a level 27 mage.
But from the book i read he's more a multiclass of fighter/thief/cleric/mage and is much higher level than that if he managed to defeat Edwin after the end of ToB.
Also it would appear he is completely immune to magic or any kind of spell locking effects that prevent spellcasting.
I know he's the chosen of Mystra but does this actually make him a walking demigod?

Do you think that if Elminster did decide to intervene in your affairs when you meet him in ToB, that you would be able to defeat him with a full party of level 40 characters?

Is there anyone that can actually match him when he's at full power?
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Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I think in the Forgotten Realms canon very few characters have reached Elminster's level (I think only the Simbul?). So you shouldn't compare BG2 levels to actual canon.
  • BubbleboyBubbleboy Member Posts: 68
    edited September 2012
    Yes it would seem so, but i was wondering if anyone know exactly how strong he is. Is there actually something that has given him pause? Something to compare him to?
    Does he have a weakness, beside losing Mystras powers over and over again?
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    The Bhaalspawn can definitely defeat Elminster according to me(but not the dumb Abdel Adrian which is a fighter). A fighter/mage or a kensai/mage with better characteristics(and better story details) than Abdel Adrian's.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    He's an epic level character who is virtually as powerful as a demi-god, I would say.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    His weakness / greatest enemy are other mages/clerics of a similar level: Larloch, Manshoon, Fzoul Chembryl, and large organistations, key amoungst which are the zhentarim. Other powerful mages of similar levels include Khelbum Blackstaff and the Simbul. Not to mention the gods themselves in the time of troubles.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @ajwz

    Honestly, when reading the novels the only character I have ever seen giving Elminster a run for his money (when at full power) was the Simbul (I think that in one of the editions she's actually one level higher than Elminster).
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I havent read many of the novels.
    Elminster is obviously a cannonical mary sue however.

    I read an article somewhere which I can't find now where it was heavily implied that a lot of the great powerful mages in forgotten realms and greyhawk are actually slightly if not completely insane.
  • CuanCuan Member Posts: 38
    Read the forgotten books about Elminster. They are really good and you will understand him more and know more about him then. I love forgotten realm books. :)

    The series is called the Sage of Shadowdale.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    Tanthalas said:

    I think in the Forgotten Realms canon very few characters have reached Elminster's level (I think only the Simbul?). So you shouldn't compare BG2 levels to actual canon.

    Actually i remember a FR character challed the Oracle or something like that, that could crush Elminster without a secound tought (but ueah it's an elder brain lich wizard 20 Psyonic 20 or something like that

  • EidolonEidolon Member Posts: 99
    I haven't read the novels but Elminster is the chosen of Mystra which, if not making him a demi god, grants him additional powers far beyond what a mere mortal could wield. He loses this power in 4th edition when Cyric kills Mystra. So he definitely gains a lot of power from being the Chosen of Mystra.
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    @Eidolon and The Bhalspawn is kinda demi-god with the potential to become The God of Murder. Even if he/she is not a god or a demi-good, the power bread in his/her bones is fierce.
  • BubbleboyBubbleboy Member Posts: 68
    When you say in 4th edition, do you mean the rule books?
    I've never read 1/2/3/4th edition rule sets. Are there stories in there or does it just give a general explanation of what happens, like:"Wisdom now increases saving throws, oh and by the way, Cyric kills Mystra."
  • EidolonEidolon Member Posts: 99
    Bubbleboy said:

    When you say in 4th edition, do you mean the rule books?
    I've never read 1/2/3/4th edition rule sets. Are there stories in there or does it just give a general explanation of what happens, like:"Wisdom now increases saving throws, oh and by the way, Cyric kills Mystra."

    Yea in the 4th edition Forgotten Realms rulebook. Sorry. He loses his Chosen powers of Mystra. I would need to look it up what he loses exactly but he becomes quite a bit weaker as a result of Mystra's death. He still resides in Shadow Dale though.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Bubbleboy said:

    "Wisdom now increases saving throws, oh and by the way, Cyric kills Mystra."

    Haha, nice. If only the sourcebooks would be that clear with thier exposition.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Eidolon

    Elminster is actually severely depowered post-spellplague. I think the only Chosen power he still retains is that he still doesn't age (or continues to age very slowly). If I'm not mistaken he can't even cast a spell without going mad, he needs to consume a magic item to be able to use a spell safely.

    Though in the latest novels he is currently stuck as magic ash that he uses to possess people. There's actually a new novel being released today. I wonder if he'll go back to having his own body at the end of it.
  • EidolonEidolon Member Posts: 99
    @Tanthalas

    That was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! I don't have the rule book at hand currently so couldn't look it up.
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited September 2012
    Bubbleboy said:

    Ok, so what's up with this guy? I just read The making of a mage.
    If i remember correctly the BG1 handbook it described him as a level 27 mage.
    But from the book i read he's more a multiclass of fighter/thief/cleric/mage and is much higher level than that if he managed to defeat Edwin after the end of ToB.
    Also it would appear he is completely immune to magic or any kind of spell locking effects that prevent spellcasting.
    I know he's the chosen of Mystra but does this actually make him a walking demigod?

    Do you think that if Elminster did decide to intervene in your affairs when you meet him in ToB, that you would be able to defeat him with a full party of level 40 characters?

    Is there anyone that can actually match him when he's at full power?

    He is basically a lesser demi-god before the spell plaque. we used to originally (back in the early days of Pen and Paper) have him a Mage/Sage
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited November 2012
    I read something earlier saying in 2nd Edition he is a level 29 Magician with 96 HP. Wonder if he will be properly represented in the ToB engine ...
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    He's also a Chosen of Mystra, is imbued with her Silver Fire, and utterly immune to 9 spells (one of each level), plus has contingencies to get him out of anyone wanting to kill him. The Original Hall of Heroes has his stats.

    26th level human mage, 96 hit points. He also has psionics, and his stats are all 18 except for Strength (13), Constitution (14) and Charisma (17).

    The Heroes' Lorebook Upped his level to 29, and added the following information: Elminster is immune to Magic Missile, ESP, Fireball, Evard's Black Tentacles, Feeblemind, Death Spell, Finger of Death, Power Word, Blind, and Imprisonment.

    He can cast the following spells once a day without having to memorize them: Spider Climb, Vocalize, Dispel Magic, Whisper Blade, Irongard, Ghostgrail, The Symbul's Synostodweomer, The Symbul's Skeletal Deliquesence, and Elminster's Effulgen Eppuration. He also needs no spell components to cast these spells.

    And he's Chaotic Good.
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    Elminster this, Elminster that. Give me 2000 years and a pointy hat and I’ll kick his arse!
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    I believe he admits (more or less) in ToB that the PC is around his own power level, if not beyond it. Also, from what I've read of Larloch I don't think even Elminster could defeat him. Though likely neither of them would be able to stop the one at a disadvantage from escaping if they really did end up doing battle.
  • cherrycoke2lcherrycoke2l Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,085
    edited November 2012
    In 3ed Elminster actually has some fighter, rogue and cleric levels, exactly as MAking of a Mage says, but those are like 3 at most. However most of his levels are wizard. I'm not sure how he works in 2ed though.

    FR Wikia has his stats from 3ed FR: Campaign Setting http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Elminster_Aumar
  • lordkimlordkim Member Posts: 1,063
    edited November 2012
    Anyone knows Raistlin.. Then we got a nice fight ;) I think they could match eachother :)
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Not even close... Raistlin is a 20th level mage...
  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    I have a feeling that the (endgame Fighter/Mage of any type) Bhaalspawn would surpass him. I've been avoiding info on ToB, but unfortunately I remember a little from my childhood (my older brother was an avid BG fan) and the Bhaalspawn's feats seem to make him on the level of a lesser god. (can you actually take down the Demogorgon!?)
  • lordkimlordkim Member Posts: 1,063
    @minevese , trust me..Raist would beat him ;)
  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    I'm not sure actually. Raistlin was ultra-powerful, but Elminster's Mary Sue powers would prevail. (The Bhaalspawn, being a Player Character, is capable of Out-Sueing Elminster himself which is why I gave him/her the win)
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    I love the final (physical) issue of Dragon Magazine for having a fun/silly "Who would win" Between Elminster and Raistlin.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    @LordsDarkKnight185 And who won? :)
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    mlnevese said:

    @LordsDarkKnight185 And who won? :)

    Both and neither, they did a side by side and explained why either of them would win or lose (The official answer is, it depends on who is writing the battle)
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