Dual Class Kinsai Mage

cbones9889

Has anyone tried a Dual Class Kinsai mage that has GM in Quarter staff. I was thinking of having her use quarter staff +3 in BGEE and once the dual takes place she will be able to use all the wonderful quarter staffs in BG2EE.

Thoughts?

Wowo

cbones9889 said:

Has anyone tried a Dual Class Kinsai mage that has GM in Quarter staff. I was thinking of having her use quarter staff +3 in BGEE and once the dual takes place she will be able to use all the wonderful quarter staffs in BG2EE.

Thoughts?

Dual class with two handed weapon is weak as you'll be limited to a mere 6 attacks per round while a dual wielding kensage can hit 10 attacks per round.

Much better to use staves on a multi Fighter/Mage/Thief.

JuliusBorisov

A kensage focusing on the quarterstaff? Viable, yes. The most powergamey, no. But of course you can play with this character. I can very much see an eastern warrior with a staff who's decided to improve his magic.

As for the damage part, in ToB, with the GWW HLA, a kensage with a two-handed weapon will be quite effective. 10 ARP with Staff of the Ram +6 is badass.

Wowo

bengoshi said:

A kensage focusing on the quarterstaff? Viable, yes. The most powergamey, no. But of course you can play with this character. I can very much see an eastern warrior with a staff who's decided to improve his magic.

As for the damage part, in ToB, with the GWW HLA, a kensage with a two-handed weapon will be quite effective. 10 ARP with Staff of the Ram +6 is badass.

GWW on a dual class kensai mage? Hmmmmmmmm ...

JuliusBorisov

Wowo said:

bengoshi said:

A kensage focusing on the quarterstaff? Viable, yes. The most powergamey, no. But of course you can play with this character. I can very much see an eastern warrior with a staff who's decided to improve his magic.

As for the damage part, in ToB, with the GWW HLA, a kensage with a two-handed weapon will be quite effective. 10 ARP with Staff of the Ram +6 is badass.

GWW on a dual class kensai mage? Hmmmmmmmm ...

For a late dual

cbones9889

bengoshi said:

A kensage focusing on the quarterstaff? Viable, yes. The most powergamey, no. But of course you can play with this character. I can very much see an eastern warrior with a staff who's decided to improve his magic.

As for the damage part, in ToB, with the GWW HLA, a kensage with a two-handed weapon will be quite effective. 10 ARP with Staff of the Ram +6 is badass.

The eastern warrior with a staff who's decided to improve his magic is exactly the RP idea that I had in mind when I thought of this concept. What level should the dual take place?

[Deleted User]

I could see that working just fine. You miss out on some extra attacks, but on the plus side, you can use the Staff of the Magi as a pseudo-Carsomyr against those pesky mages.

JuliusBorisov

Usually for a kensai a dual is recommended at level 13, so that you get maximum APR from a fighter class. If you can't wait, you can dual at level 9 (when you get a proficiency), although for a kensai it's not so good because he'll get more Kai abilities after that.

If you're looking at a high-level dual (available in a solo playthrough), then a level of 22 is recommended. This way you'll get 3 fighter HLA. As long as you dual-class into a mage before you reach a level of 22 as a kensai, it will be possible to reactivate your kensai class and be able to cast epic level spells under the ToB exp cap. Take a note that a dual like this will require you to play as a kensai for all of BG1 and a big part of SoA, depending on how many quests you complete in chapter 2.

semiticgoddess

I wouldn't recommend dualing at level 13. A level 13 dual grants a very small benefit compared to a level 7 or 9 dual, at the cost of significantly increasing the time it takes to recover your Kensai levels after dualing. You gain 0.5 APR, +2 to saves, + +5 to hit, and +1 to damage if you dual at level 13, but that takes 1.5 million XP. It seems like a lot, but it slows down your progression considerably, in exchange for fighter abilities that a high-level mage won't be relying on much anyway.

A Kensai/Mage is a mage with fighter levels, not a fighter with mage levels. If you want a character that can easily switch between attacking and spellcasting, pick a multi-class Fighter/Mage, not a high-level dual.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

cbones9889

subtledoctor said:

Srsly. I never understood the brilliant idea of spending 75% of the game (and 100% of the other game) playing as something other than your character concept, just so you can spend 25% of the game playing that character concept? Why not play the whole game - or, 3/4 of the game *at least* - as the actual thing you want to be? You'll be ever-so-slightly less powerful, but let's be honest the game can be a cakewalk for a blind gnomish cleric with all 7s for stats. There's just no need to really maximize your power.

I would have to agree. I think I will go with a level 7 dual for my RP concept. No need to spend most of the game playing a character that I do not actually want to play.

[Deleted User]

Yeah, I did a playthrough once where I went Kensai 13->Druid. Never again. I just started a playthrough going Thief->Mage (using the Sharpshooter kit from SnS) originally planning to dual-class at level 9, but as soon as I hit level 5 I decided that was plenty and did it then.

Wowo

cbones9889 said:

subtledoctor said:

Srsly. I never understood the brilliant idea of spending 75% of the game (and 100% of the other game) playing as something other than your character concept, just so you can spend 25% of the game playing that character concept? Why not play the whole game - or, 3/4 of the game *at least* - as the actual thing you want to be? You'll be ever-so-slightly less powerful, but let's be honest the game can be a cakewalk for a blind gnomish cleric with all 7s for stats. There's just no need to really maximize your power.

I would have to agree. I think I will go with a level 7 dual for my RP concept. No need to spend most of the game playing a character that I do not actually want to play.

At least go to 9 for a kensei, otherwise it's much better to be a berserker for a level 7 dual. Also I'd suggest holding your level up at mage 5 until you can hit mage 10 so that you don't have to waste any weapon proficiencies.

Also realise that you'll be capped at 2.5 attacks per round which means you'll be attacking literally half as often as an optimised dual wielder and probably doing less damage until you get the Ram staff. You'll very much be a primary mage with a mediocre melee ability.

demon9675

Wowo said:

At least go to 9 for a kensei, otherwise it's much better to be a berserker for a level 7 dual. Also I'd suggest holding your level up at mage 5 until you can hit mage 10 so that you don't have to waste any weapon proficiencies.

Also realise that you'll be capped at 2.5 attacks per round which means you'll be attacking literally half as often as an optimised dual wielder and probably doing less damage until you get the Ram staff. You'll very much be a primary mage with a mediocre melee ability.

Well, "mediocre" only by powergaming standards. 5 apr with improved haste is good enough to beat ToB without much trouble (unless you're soloing, in which case ignore me).

I understand that folks want to be helpful, but when people propose interesting builds and get shot down because they aren't as strong as a 10 apr nearly immortal kensai/mage it's a little bit frustrating. If monks with only 4 apr and +4 fist are viable, then kensai/mage with 5 apr and +6 insane staff will be totally fine. Go for it, OP!

A bit off-topic: multis and duals are obviously the strongest stuff in the game, but I encourage people to try all the pure-classes the devs put in; they're fun and only a little bit more challenging. Just don't do shapeshifter.

cbones9889

Some of my favorite characters have been single classes. My favorite was a single class monk!

sparrow13x

I did a Kensai 9 -> Mage not long ago and had him wielding the Staff of the Magi in SoA. Not the most damaging setup possible but it was more than enough to trivialize the game, especially in fights against mages.

I guess a DW build with Katanas or something would be deadlier but since K->M already pretty much breaks the game as it is you can get away with using whatever weapons you want. Beating guys into a pulp with a staff is fun.

T2av

subtledoctor said:

Srsly. I never understood the brilliant idea of spending 75% of the game (and 100% of the other game) playing as something other than your character concept, just so you can spend 25% of the game playing that character concept? Why not play the whole game - or, 3/4 of the game *at least* - as the actual thing you want to be? You'll be ever-so-slightly less powerful, but let's be honest the game can be a cakewalk for a blind gnomish cleric with all 7s for stats. There's just no need to really maximize your power.

Because I want to struggle through bg2, and in TOB I want to ascend to be a God! As is my right! Crush all those who oppose me, including you weakling