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Help me overcome my aversion to evil alignments.

VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
So surprise! After my last thread on lawful alignment went super well and I love my Doomguide character I now want to learn to RP as evil better. All my characters tend to be very light-hearted people that help their friends. You'd think with being a Necromancer that evil would be easy to do but NOPE. I usually play Neutral or Good Necromancers. Sooooooo. Can I be evil while still being nice and helpful to my friends? Basically I want to be able to play an evil cleric someday in IWD:EE and not RP as a super doucher. Like, I want all the cool evil-only Cleric spells as well as Rebuke Undead without being super evil. So how do I be evil without being an ass? Or if that's not a thing how do I better get into the mindset of being an ass?

Comments

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Just believe in your evil God and do deeds that he would approve of. In other words it's 'good' to do 'evil' because that is what your God, who you worship, wants - alignment is all about perspective.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    edited September 2015
    Always ask for something in return for completing a quest, and never do something for free. If the NPC in question offers you something worthless for something that has worth (Unshey), tell him/her to sod off. Work for nasty people, then turn around and kill them if they lie to you in order to use you (Silke). Everything must be about you, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise gets either the blade or the boot. Let no insults stand, and give snark remarks to every assassin who comes for you; they're gonna try to kill you anyway, why not make fun of them while you're killing them? Pick a fight with any Flaming Fist who tries to boss you around, but not if they are cordial to you. If someone shows you respect, then let them live, albeit with a wary eye.

    Do all of this, and you will feel the power of the Dark Side-er the evil alignment in no time.
  • NaveenNaveen Member Posts: 81
    edited September 2015
    Vallmyr said:

    Basically I want to be able to play an evil cleric someday in IWD:EE and not RP as a super doucher. Like, I want all the cool evil-only Cleric spells as well as Rebuke Undead without being super evil. So how do I be evil without being an ass? Or if that's not a thing how do I better get into the mindset of being an ass?

    IWD is about combat so there isn't much room for roleplaying. Also, there aren't many "kill me this and I'll pay you" quests. Still, there are ways to act like a self-centered ass and earn some extra coin while you are at it.

    From time to time you'll fin some nasty and evil dialogue choices; they are quite evident and, some of them, well written and interesting. In Easthaven, for example, there are a few utter douche things to do (1) the guy who can't sleep because of his dreams; find the "siren" and then lie to both of them. (2) You need a dwarf character for this: talk to commoners, sooner or later someone will tell you about Dorn's Deep. Lie to them. (3) The kid that needs help? Keep his fish for yourself, it's valuable and you can consider it your payment. (4) Steal everything that isn't bolted.

    There is a survivor kid in a farm near Kuldahar, there are two very nasty dialogue choices I think. In fact, in this game there are a lot of kids you can traumatise if you are into that...

    In Kuldahar you can blackmail someone. In CH 5 you'll find some escaped slaves, I'm sure you'll deduce what you can do to them. Later, you'll find some gnomes that will ask you for food, etc.

    Of course, you don't need to do all of these things. Even your brand of evil may have some standards. It may also help to think about which dark god will you worship, and what kind of behaviour is expected from you (manipulative, lying, aggressive?).
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Grum said:

    In IWD just don't rp worshiping Auril. It won't go well.

    If I were to I remember there was a mod by elminster I think that added dialogue for being a Priest of Auril.

    Also, thanks for the answers everyone! I like these ideas n_n
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Vallmyr said:


    If I were to I remember there was a mod by elminster I think that added dialogue for being a Priest of Auril

    Not particularly well written dialogue but yes there is additional dialogue :)
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    elminster said:

    Vallmyr said:


    If I were to I remember there was a mod by elminster I think that added dialogue for being a Priest of Auril

    Not particularly well written dialogue but yes there is additional dialogue :)
    Spoil it for me please as I can't add mods. :)
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    My view of evil and how I'm going to play my assassin.

    Priority #1: Me
    Priority #2: Keeping me alive
    Priority #3: Power
    Priority #4: Gold

    Then again, playing neutral evil, it's very easy to be self centered. As you come into your own bhaalspawn powers etc, you gain two-fold reason:

    A. Giving people who do know about bhaalspawn reason to trust you
    B. How can I untap that power, for more power/prestige/etc.

    An assassin bhaalspawn literally is following in their fathers footsteps. And most good assassins, on top of being sneaky, are rather cunning.

    Why will Imoen get the boot in both games, obviously, she not capable of helping herself, much less helping you when you need it.

    Open every house, try to steal whatever you can. If you get found out, reload (RP reason, you're only stealing when you aren't seen.

    Imo, your name should be whispered about privately, but publicly, you want to be well received.

    So be, snarky evil. And then I have my blade as snarky good. Ya I'm kinda sarcastic snarky irl.

    Oh...........and have a plan ready to kill everyone you meet. INCLUDING your companions. In your head, know their weaknesses and how you'll take em out if you have to. At the end of the day, you only care about you and your own advancement. You don't mind helping others in their quests (Like say Rasaad) and lying through your teeth. Nor do you mind giving good ole Kagain the belt of strong stupidity. And RP how you convince him to wear it.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited September 2015
    Grum said:

    elminster said:

    Vallmyr said:


    If I were to I remember there was a mod by elminster I think that added dialogue for being a Priest of Auril

    Not particularly well written dialogue but yes there is additional dialogue :)
    Spoil it for me please as I can't add mods. :)
    I think its largely having to do with Lysan (the priestess of Auril you encounter in the Vale of Shadows). Its mostly just calling her out on how bad of a priest of Auril she is (for instance she doesn't put out the fire in the tavern she works in). This is all done in order to force her to attack you (priests of Auril are forbidden from attacking eachother so this was a much easier way of letting the story play out the same). Likewise any dialogue option to allow you to attack her is removed (and there are other dialogue changes particularly in Easthaven).
  • sparrow13xsparrow13x Member Posts: 120
    edited September 2015
    You really need to roleplay as an evil character. Good ones are all about helping people but not all evil alignments are about doing the opposite. Neutral evil characters, for example, will help people as long as it suits their needs - they're in it for themselves. If helping rescue kittens out of trees somehow makes them more powerful/rich they'll do it without hesitation.

    Lawful and neutral evil characters will generally be dicks to people but not so much that they push them away. For example, when Nalia approaches you in the Copper Coronet an evil character will tell her how much of a snob she is while still agreeing to help, whereas a good character will be all valiant and agree to help without hesitation.

    Chaotic Evil is the crazy one, just as likely to help you as to chop your head off. I have a hard time roleplaying this one because if done properly you would cut yourself off from a lot of quests.

    Overall I find Evil to be much more fun to play as than good. Anyone can enthusiastically agree to help, but it takes a true badass to make fun of Raelis Shai's petty problems before negotiating a better/up-front reward.
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited September 2015
    CE: This is not so much an alignment choice; if played literally, these folks are quite simply psychotics with poor impulse control. Not a good RP option, IMO.

    LE: Has to follow rules. Exactly what rules you follow can be variable. Usually found in proselytizer types (clerics and blackguards); your deity lays down the rules, which you strive to follow so you can tap into its power.

    NE: the ONLY way to be! Just remember the golden rule; he who has the gold, makes the rules. Umm, wait, that's not it. Sorry; the rule for NE (as has already been mentioned) is "It's all about ME!". No otherworldy powers controlling your behavior; do whatever you have to do in order to achieve ascension. Having the local constabulary on your heels will hinder your pursuit of this goal, so have no hesitation in making Temple donations to keep your reputation in the neutral zone.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    I view LE as the worst side of politicians and lawyers. They see high value in a law ridden society because those rules create opportunities for advancement and exploitation and manipulate these rules to benefit themselves. Whether they always follows the rules might vary depending on how you view them - they may push the boundaries and in the opinion of many step over them.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    AHF said:

    I view LE as the worst side of politicians and lawyers. They see high value in a law ridden society because those rules create opportunities for advancement and exploitation and manipulate these rules to benefit themselves. Whether they always follows the rules might vary depending on how you view them - they may push the boundaries and in the opinion of many step over them.

    So for a D&D adventurer, a good example of lawful evil would be Greywolf, the bounty hunter in BG1.

    If you charm him, he talks about how he enjoys hunting people down. If you get in the way of his bounty, even by just suggesting that he let Prism finish his work before turning him in, he tells you to get out of the way of him and his bounty of die.

    But he is a *bounty hunter*. He is on the right side of the law. He only hunts down people whom society has given him the authority to kill. He follows and enforces the law, and doesn't indiscriminately murder...even though the murder is what he enjoys.

    That is lawful evil right there.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Grum said:

    AHF said:

    I view LE as the worst side of politicians and lawyers. They see high value in a law ridden society because those rules create opportunities for advancement and exploitation and manipulate these rules to benefit themselves. Whether they always follows the rules might vary depending on how you view them - they may push the boundaries and in the opinion of many step over them.

    So for a D&D adventurer, a good example of lawful evil would be Greywolf, the bounty hunter in BG1.

    If you charm him, he talks about how he enjoys hunting people down. If you get in the way of his bounty, even by just suggesting that he let Prism finish his work before turning him in, he tells you to get out of the way of him and his bounty of die.

    But he is a *bounty hunter*. He is on the right side of the law. He only hunts down people whom society has given him the authority to kill. He follows and enforces the law, and doesn't indiscriminately murder...even though the murder is what he enjoys.

    That is lawful evil right there.
    Good example. If you get beyond games, there are tons of NPCs who are part of corrupt legal, religious or other structures that use or subvert the law to their advantage.
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    My definition of evil is simply someone who has no problem with hurting people. Good and neutral will kill people only as a last resort (the difference being that good are prompt to help starngers while neutral are not). Many real-life evil character might even consider that they are nice person. They will love and protect their companions. They will be happy to do some public good when it costs them nothing. But they will have no qualm about killing someone they hate, or a rival. I don't enjoy much playing a Dorn-style fiendish evil.

    If you want to play an evil cleric without being super-evil, I would say Viconia is a good example of that. She is ruthless and cruel, but not that evil in her actions. She has no pity for the weak, but doesn't go out of her way to kill people.

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