Breath new life into my BGEE (and BG2EE) play?

fischsemmel

So over the years, I've played through BG1 and 2 (original and/or EE) several times, though I've never quite finished ToB.

I like playing with a full party for the banter between characters and for some aspects of managing combat of the whole team. But micromanaging movement in tight spaces (and sometimes even in the open), trapfinding, scouting, and some aspects of combat always frustrated me. I love playing solo because of *my* character being the sole focus of my attention, letting me play casters and use spells in all kinds of fun ways that never seemed worth doing when playing with a party, plus playing solo gets rid of the annoyances of playing with a party... but I miss the banter of a group.

I want to do a full play through from starting in Candlekeep through the end of ToB... but I'm having a hard time deciding how to do it. I miss party banter when I solo, but I like being able to concern myself only with my character when I play solo.

I tried starting a BGEE playthrough on insane with a whole party, but every single wayward arrow from a kobold or bandit killing someone over the first couple hours of that game... yuck. I was tempted to do another solo run with a caster of some sort or another, but scripting issues that pop up when I'm always invisible as I travel or enter new places are frustrating, as is cheesy ToB NPC behavior like getting followed step-for-step by a swarm of giants until they manage to surround me so I can't move, even though they can't see me.

I don't know if I should try to switch it up with a hardcore run or try playing with a party of 3-4 or try playing a party of characters/classes I've never really used before or what, to have fun and get all the way through ToB. Any tips or ideas?

JuliusBorisov

Install BG1 NPC and SCS mods for BGEE.

The first one will add banters and will make NPCs alive. You will also be able to romance some of them. The second mod will enhance enemies without insane damage. It will make them smarter.

If a six-men party is too large for to micromanage, go with a smaller party, with 3 or 4 members - this way there will be banters and yet it won't be as huge as managing 6 members.

Of course, you can start a no-reload/minimal reload run and maybe post your results on this forum.

Or maybe go a thematical party. For example, only shorties.

Cheesebelly

I reckon some of the ideas you mentioned yourself seem pretty solid. You could give a go to some challenge runs - but not necessarily hardcore/no-reload playthrough, you could go with a "no corpse looting" or "No shopping", etc...

Smaller parties seem also to be pretty fun, especially a character of yours with 3 NPCs I enjoyed a lot back in the days. Progression is a lot faster and quite honestly, you don't run into any issues as long as you have one of every type of character.

As for Characters or classes you never went with, that's probably my favorite choice that you listed. You could make a list of classes and/or races you have picked and rate them on how you liked them. Whichever class you like best, you can check for its Kits, or multi-class options, and pick some you never tried. Quite honestly, sometimes being a single-class kit of any race, without choices to dual-class is also pretty fun, you can roleplay that class on its fullest.

Other than that, like @bengoshi here mentioned, SCS might actually be worth a go - unlike the in-game difficulty setting, it doesn't add Artificial Difficulty (or rather, enemies doing more damage/being tankier but with their same intelligence or lack thereof), which is a big plus. Adds tactical elements that fit the genre well, and it's certainly a mod anyone should at the bare minimum try.

moody_mage

Maybe have a two man party?

lunar

SCS is the way to go. You will see enemies acting like human beings, like actual thinking players. Mages will kite to avoid melee, they will use wands and scrolls, use minor sequencers to go invisibe and flee, fighters will gulp potions appropriately, like, when they see a web spell and they have it they will gulp the potion of freedom, and they will try to flee from cloud area effects. Enemy clerics will remove fear and paralysis from their allies, purge the air when they see cloud attacks with zone of sweet air, dispel invisibility when they suspect some one is around. Archers will avoid melee and target your unprotected umarmored characters, etc. I even caught the mage Lendarn peeking into our party with an invisible wizard eye in the ruins below halfling village. Scary AI! Unpredictable and sensible like a real person! So much fun!

fischsemmel

First off, thanks for the replies!

Secondly, I actually did consider SCS before I made the thread, but I was worried that changes it makes to some of the mechanics I know so well would frustrate me more than the improved AI would please me. Also, the way you describe it lunar, I have a hard time believing the "the AI plays fair" assertion on the SCS readme; I mean, if enemies are using those potions... do they drop them if I kill them before they have a chance? If enemies are casting wizard eyes and zone of sweet air and stuff, are their slots actually using those spells such that they are unavailable for other spells if those are unneeded? Etc. Stuff like forced vocalize and constant true sight and chugging potions that the NPCs won't drop if I kill them before they have a chance to drink any drive me nuts. I think I will still give it a try though.

Third, I've started BGEE with a gnome illusionist/cleric. I think I'll remove the XP cap (after several playthroughs and having some strong powergaming leanings, nothing quite takes the wind out of my sails like my xp freezing even though I still have half the game left to play) and play largely solo, picking up an NPC or two here or there to see how they banter with each other and to do quests unique to different NPCs, etc. I'd try a small party of 2-4 instead of solo except I really have fun with the different approach needed to play solo, and of course with the different perks of only having one character to give gear/spells/buffs to.

So far in my game, I've gotten myself out to a bit of a cheesy start by beelining from Candlekeep to the nearby item troves (diamond, +1 ring, ring of wizardry) and Mutamin's garden to make use of good dog Korax to get me a few quick levels. Now I'm planning to move through the game pretty much how I would have as a BG noob, going through zones as I get quests for them and fully exploring each zone as I'm there.


Thanks again for the ideas

Mirage

Hi @fischsemmel ,
welcome to the forums!

I consider myself a mid-level player, not one of the experienced veterans you can find in these forums.
I would also though recommend you to try SCS. I tried it some time ago and since then I can't do without it.
I actually started an unmodded run and quit it very early since enemies in the game seemed like retarded to me, especially spellcasters.
You should not worry about difficulty, because it is has custom settings and you can choose step by step how more difficult or "realistic" you want to make your game. Make sure you check the read me, it is really helpful. I have finished bg:ee with SCS at its hardest settings. Some battles are certainly a challenge, but perfectly doable.
Be more careful if you install SCS on SoA though...

edit: If you enjoy banters, DON'T miss NPC project...it will be your biggest mistake in the game

Hudzy

The SCS foes will drop unused potions on death and the spells do consume spell slots.

thelovebat

fischsemmel said:

So over the years, I've played through BG1 and 2 (original and/or EE) several times, though I've never quite finished ToB.

I like playing with a full party for the banter between characters and for some aspects of managing combat of the whole team. But micromanaging movement in tight spaces (and sometimes even in the open), trapfinding, scouting, and some aspects of combat always frustrated me. I love playing solo because of *my* character being the sole focus of my attention, letting me play casters and use spells in all kinds of fun ways that never seemed worth doing when playing with a party, plus playing solo gets rid of the annoyances of playing with a party... but I miss the banter of a group.

I want to do a full play through from starting in Candlekeep through the end of ToB... but I'm having a hard time deciding how to do it. I miss party banter when I solo, but I like being able to concern myself only with my character when I play solo.

I tried starting a BGEE playthrough on insane with a whole party, but every single wayward arrow from a kobold or bandit killing someone over the first couple hours of that game... yuck. I was tempted to do another solo run with a caster of some sort or another, but scripting issues that pop up when I'm always invisible as I travel or enter new places are frustrating, as is cheesy ToB NPC behavior like getting followed step-for-step by a swarm of giants until they manage to surround me so I can't move, even though they can't see me.

I don't know if I should try to switch it up with a hardcore run or try playing with a party of 3-4 or try playing a party of characters/classes I've never really used before or what, to have fun and get all the way through ToB. Any tips or ideas?

Try going with some mods to give yourself a fresh experience. I know that SCS (Sword Coast Stratagems) makes the game a good deal more challenging, and using the NPC kitting mod from the guy who did Scales of Balance would add variety to the joinable NPCs for a different experience.

If not that, then try multiplayer with a few people on here in a party of 3-4. And if everyone agrees to it, play a modded game with them for an even more unique playthrough and classes you usually wouldn't see all together in a party. It's also pretty easy to use custom portraits with the Enhanced Edition versions, so playing multiplayer means you could go with custom portraits and unique characters and class combos all around for a unique party and style of play. Could make things more interesting and fun.

Blackraven

lunar said:

I even caught the mage Lendarn peeking into our party with an invisible wizard eye in the ruins below halfling village. Scary AI! Unpredictable and sensible like a real person! So much fun!

That's awesome! Never had that...

lunar

Hudzy said:

The SCS foes will drop unused potions on death and the spells do consume spell slots.

Yeah it is all fair, there is a choice while installation to allow potions to 'break' when you slay the foes, so you can only recover up to some percentage of the potions enemies carry, others just dissappear. If you want you may choose %100 potion recovery upon enemy death. I have %50 installed IIRC, it makes sense that when an enemy is slain some potions may just be broken and spilled out (or boiled and evoparated if a fireball did the guy in) Plus it makes my game more challenging. Spellcasters never cheat in terms of spell slots, if they come prebuffed to the max (you can choose this in installation for a harder game) the spells they buffed with are deduced from their own slots.

Blackraven said:

lunar said:

I even caught the mage Lendarn peeking into our party with an invisible wizard eye in the ruins below halfling village. Scary AI! Unpredictable and sensible like a real person! So much fun!

That's awesome! Never had that...

I am not sure, it may be a bug or something, but my char was blocked off with an invisible thing in the narrow corridors, and Somehow I accidentally bumped/clicked on that invisible something and it said wizard eye-had nothing to say to you. So I guessed it was a wizard eye?! Funnily enough, Lendarn came to where we were a few seconds later, rushing for battle, buffed to the max, I believed he knew our position because of the invisible wizard eye thingie. I have no idea if this is from scs or some other mod or some bug, but it made me shiver with terror, I have no idea how anyone coded such an AI almost like from the terminator/matrix movies.

Skatan

Sometimes, when/if bored I change NPC's classes and proficiences to alter the game play. Sure, there are mods that do this, but it's just as easy to do with EEkeeper. It'll keep the banter and will let you more easily play with smaller parties since you can add all essential classes with just 2 NPC's. It's doable with existing NPC's as well of course, like dualclassing Shar'teel (to thief) or Xzar (to cleric with tomes, as some wise person told me not long ago, hadn't thought about that before), or using a frontline CHARNAME+Jan+Aerie in SoA, but it can be funny to create new NPC's to stir things up. Haer'dalis can be swashbuckler, Garrick can be blade or whatever strikes your fancy. I think that making Aerie a wildmage/cleric adds wild surges to her clerical spells as well, which can be rather weird but fun, if that's your thing.

Make yourself something interresting like a MC kensai/cleric weilding staffs, a shapeshifter/fighter or whatever suits you. It's easy to trivialize the game this way though, so keep it real or you risk losing interrest due to becoming too powerful (like my dwarf paladin with ridiculous saves and resists, funny in a way, but way, way to powerful).

Never tried SCS myself, but alot of ppl enjoy it, as said above.

Another little thing I do is to not rush for the best items. Playing it "the way it's meant to be played" (subjective, I know) and slowly and more incrementally increasing your power through new items keep the challenge alive longer. Rushing for the best items asap, gulping potions of thievery and stealing everything not bolted to the floor and then buying the best items straight out of the dungeon make the game very easy no matter the difficulty level and choice of race/class.

fischsemmel

Well my evil-party play, on core with SCS and lots of reloads, is nearly done. I finished TOSC (for the first time I think? I always used to get frustrated with the GWWs and Dulag's Tower in the past and was too anxious to "get on with it!" and do BG2) and am in Candlekeep for the second time. Had a lot of fun playing with a bunch of evil characters I'd never used before, and for my frustrations with SCS, I enjoyed the change of pace and I think I've settled into my preferred settings of basically everything enabled except prebuffing (like 80% of the time I fight casters in BG1 there's no plausible, ingame way these dudes could have had all these short-term buffs up at the right time to be ready for me, and I can't get past that mental hurdle so I'm just leaving it off).

But I'm starting another BG1 play now too... think I'll start another thread for it and update my progress, mostly just for my own amusement

Thanks for pointing me to SCS and the other suggestions!