Tips for a neutral/evil party makeup?

KillerK

Hi all! Longtime BG series player, just picked up BGEE and BG2EE, first time I've played the games in years! I remember most of it though.

Anyway I've already gone through the two games once as a good mage with the typical party of Jaheira, Khalid, Imoen, Minsc and Dynaheir (BG1), swapping Khalid for Keldorn and Dynaheir for Aerie in BG2.

Well this time around I feel like playing a chaotic neutral thief with only neutral/evil party members (and no Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid). Any tips on party makeup?

I was thinking PC (swashbuckler or fighter/thief), Edwin, Viconia, Shar-Teel, Kagain, and either Eldoth or Faldorn. However I don't think it's possible to pick up either Eldoth of Faldorn very soon in the game. IIRC, Viconia and Shar-Teel take a little bit of out-of-the-way traveling to find but are available anytime. Is that right?

And any opinions on Eldoth vs. Faldorn, or do you have another suggestion?

It's easy enough in BG2 to pick up Edwin, Korgan, and Viconia pretty quickly. I don't know of any other evil NPCs in BG2 than them though. Suggestions for filling out the BG2 party? Technically speaking, with my thief, Edwin, Viconia and Korgan might be enough but I like having a full complement.

moody_mage

If you use BG2Tweaks (which is recommended) you can get it to change the starting location to several NPCs.

Bear in mind you have the new EE NPCs, so Dorn is evil, Neera is neutral and Rasaad is good. In BG2 there is also an evil thief available.

JuliusBorisov

I would take Montaron and Xzar into any evil party for BG1. Montaron can focus on those thieving abilities your character doesn't improve during the first levels.

For example, you can be a backstabbing stealthy F/T, and Montaron will set traps and disarm them. Or you go with a swashbuckler focusing on setting traps, and Montaron will backstab.

Add Dorn and Viconia, and you already have every nearly every role covered. As for the last party member, take Edwin or Baeloth (an EE NPC @decado didn't mention).

As for BG2, Dorn and Hexxat let you finally make a fully evil party, with Edwin, Korgan, and Viconia. Or you can take neutral characters, such as Haer'Dalis or Jan Jansen.

Metalloman

Spotted this thread in the Italian BG:EE area.

Moved in the right area.

deltago

Well, just 5 month's late, however for a neutral/evil party that you want set from the start, I would recommend

PC (swash or f/t)
Kagain (beregost)
Viconia (first map east of FAI, on the west hand side. Go in grab her, get out)
Dorn (FAI first, then Nashkel)
Xzar (First Map)
Montaron (First Map)

two tanks, a cleric, a mage, and two min/maxed thieves have your bases covered.

My last evil playthrough, my team consisted of Monty, Xzar, Viconia, Eldoth and Skie however. PC was a dualled cleric of tempus/thief.

Raduziel

PC

Tiax

Viconia

Edwin/Baeloth

Kagain

Dorn/Shar-Teel

thelovebat

bengoshi said:

I would take Montaron and Xzar into any evil party for BG1. Montaron can focus on those thieving abilities your character doesn't improve during the first levels.

For example, you can be a backstabbing stealthy F/T, and Montaron will set traps and disarm them. Or you go with a swashbuckler focusing on setting traps, and Montaron will backstab.

Add Dorn and Viconia, and you already have every nearly every role covered. As for the last party member, take Edwin or Baeloth (an EE NPC @decado didn't mention).

As for BG2, Dorn and Hexxat let you finally make a fully evil party, with Edwin, Korgan, and Viconia. Or you can take neutral characters, such as Haer'Dalis or Jan Jansen.

Way late to this thread, but if they planned on being a Swashbuckler I'm not sure what their plans would be for backstabbing in the party. They'd probably be the kind to either focus on a combat thief who can do the usual pick locks and disarm traps and later picking up whatever fills a need, or they'd dual class when they've put in enough thieving points into one or two skills to last them for the majority of both games before dualing to something else to make a good combo. If dualing and having an evil/neutral party, then there's plenty of beef with evil party members to pick up the slack with Kagain, Dorn (added in the Enhanced Edition), Shar-Teel, and Montaron. Neutral doesn't really contain any frontline fighters outside of Jaheira who's technically true neutral. Edwin or Xan could make for your spellcasting though Edwin is definitely the best pure spellcaster in the game. If you have Xan instead of Xzar then you at least get a nice piece of equipment that gives Xan some utility and increases his survivability a bit, though the combo of Xzar and Montaron is available right from the start and you can build Xzar up the way you like (and he gets more offensive spells to work with than Xan, so he can sit back and throw magic missiles around).

It should also be noted that as far as thieving goes, Shar-Teel can dual class to Thief and make an effective backstabber, if you want one who has a higher strength than what Montaron has and providing just enough thieving skills to help you through the first game. She can be effective for dual wielding too before she dual classes, then be a dual wielding Thief when she gets her old levels back.

Philhelm

It seems that people are mostly focusing on the evil.

There's also Branwen, Safana, and Garrick (if memory serves, I think he's CN).

Raduziel

I really don't get this "combative thief" thing. Why don't just roll a Fighter?

[Deleted User]

Raduziel said:

I really don't get this "combative thief" thing. Why don't just roll a Fighter?

Because you need a thief to disarm traps and pick locks (among other things). The more pertinent question is: Why a fighter/thief over any other flavor of thief? Which really comes down to NPC selection in this case.

PK2748

Quayle. Get Quayle. Much better than Edwin. Slap on the ring of Holy Power and the Ring of Wizardry and the Amulet of Metaspell Influence along with a helmet and a shield. Shorty save bonuses! He also gets a free cast of Invisibility. Fantastic neutral spell caster.

Philhelm

Raduziel said:

I really don't get this "combative thief" thing. Why don't just roll a Fighter?

Swashbucklers, Fighter/Thieves, etc., broadly represent the finesse fighter archetype. Sure, one can create a 14 Str/18 Dex Fighter and give him studded leather armor, but then you realize that his AC and THAC0 are a lot worse than they could be for nothing in return and no real addition to flavor.

Furthermore, I would argue that the Fighter/Thief represents the perfect adventurer/hero. He can use any weapons and armor, he can use wands and scrolls, he can sneak past drunken guards, he can ambush the evil sorcerer with a sneak attack, and he can get through a dungeon filled with traps and locked doors. I'd wager he'd be good at answering riddles too, if such a mechanic existed. The only thing that a Fighter/Thief can't do is cast spells, but even that can be simulated through the use of wands and scrolls.

JuliusBorisov

I'd like to note, @Philhelm , that a F/T can use only green scrolls, at least till he gets the UAI HLA, and the choice of wands he can use is rather limited (again, till the UAI HLA).

A F/M/T, though, can perfectly do what you've described, plus this character can cast his own spells.

Philhelm

bengoshi said:

I'd like to note, @Philhelm , that a F/T can use only green scrolls, at least till he gets the UAI HLA, and the choice of wands he can use is rather limited (again, till the UA
I HLA).
A F/M/T, though, can perfectly do what you've described, plus this character can cast his own spells.

I was mostly looking at Fighter/Thief as an archetype. The "Hero" is generally not going to be a spellcaster and will almost always be a human (thereby eliminating the possibility of F/M/T). He overcomes adversity through a combination of blade and wit rather than throwing fireballs at a problem. He'll use a wand in a pinch, but he's certainly not going to study that crap.

Frankly, the pure Thief can represent the archetype, but some Fighter levels just help to make his sword swinging a bit more convincing.

DevardKrown

Bealoth can be Picked up at LvL 5 of your CHARNAME , normally i go to bergeost with imoens haste potion,and magic missile staff try to get my hands on a +1 weapon(there is a free mace and bastardsword and silke has a +1staff) i can use and then clear out bergeost and the Temple Map right to it solo the vampire worgs on the very right of the temple map can be pulled 1 by one with slowly creeping advanement and are rather decent to kill under haste and with a 0rk armor potion and they give 2 k a piece after this CHARNAME is normaly around lvl 4+


also if you really want a Swashbuckler consider to Dual him at lvl 6 To a Mage. you have 100 Lockpick and Find traps which will serve you through all the game BG1+2+TOB, sneaking is worthless as Swash since you cant Backstab and all the mage Goodies make up for any thief progression you might lose (hell even a archmage robe with rk 5 is already as good as a +2 studded armor) the only thing you lose is Traps and UAI in the end but you get a spellbook of madness starting in the early 3rd of BG1 which will serve you the whole trilogy, and the downtime of your thief is quite manageable.

abacus

I've said this elsewhere, but if you pick up Kagain, don't miss Beruel's Retort from the Beregost smithy. They are magical throwing axes, but if you use them in "melee mode" (usually accessed via right-click menu) you get a +1 (and unbreakable!!!) weapon for around 50 gold.


Obviously, if you let him throw them in missile mode, you will swiftly run out...