[SCS] How to beat Kahrk

Yamcha

This guy got buffed immensely with SCS.
His spellbook is filled with lots of deadly magic and even in melee he's on par with my best warriors.

I can beat him, sure. But it it always takes a bit of luck, cheese and reloading.

How do you deal with him (mid level party tactics prefered)

The guy in question:
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Kahrk

TheArtisan

- Stalling - Have a tank with full plate mail, girdle of slashing protection and drink the potion that passes all saving throws. His protections will eventually wear off, hopefully before the tank dies.

- Wand of Paralysis - Ignores invisibility. It has a very low success rate but pretty much wins the fight immediately when it works.

- Polymorph Self -> Mustard Jelly. Proceed to laugh in his face.

- Skeleton Warriors - almost immune to magic and resistant to slashing damage. Even so, it takes about three or four to tank him while the rest of the party pelts him with missiles.

- Inquisitor. True Sight + Dispel Magic makes a joke out of him.

- Boring cheap way - kill him with an Arrow of Slaying.

Yamcha

Artemius_I said:

- Boring cheap way - kill him with an Arrow of Slaying.

The arrow must connect though - only having 1 arrow and Imy chance to hit makes it a great gamble. Far from reliable. But I'll keep it in mind for my next encounter

TheArtisan

One more way of tanking him that I haven't tried but should work: have your mage stack as much magic resistance as possible: drink a potion of magic protection (50%), cloak of Balduran (25%), robe of archmagi (5%), Eilistraee's Boon (10% - might be from a mod) then cast the level 3 spell Wraith Form - makes you immune to normal weapons for 2 rounds/level but prevents you from casting spells. Kahrk wields a normal katana so this setup means he (almost) can't touch you at all.

Abel

Really annoying fight; completely unfair given the spells available in BG1. Unending supply of Stoneskins and Mirror Images; Immunity to Magic Weapons and item Haste and Globe of Invulnerability. Any Breach? No? Get wrecked...

Eventually just set traps on spawn location. Hopefully not a no reload game; the L key is worn out.

Aerakar

He is one of the most difficult encounters in a SCS game. I usually wait until I am a higher level (i.e. level 8+ for a thief character) and then park my party up at the top right of the screen so we can exit if things go south. Then I lay some traps on the path up from the gorge to that plateau. Next I have my cleric summon a few skeleton warriors and place them as a blocking force after the traps and before my party. Then my thief will go and attack him and hide in shadows while moving around. He will wander around looking for you, so you can wait him out for his protections to expire and then attack/lead him to your traps and skeleton warriors. Those guys together with a buffed tank (e.g. Kagain, Minsc with haste, potion buffs and good gear) and missile support can usually take him down, but it is not a sure thing even then.

This guy and then the 4 dwarven spirit warriors on the first basement level of Durlag's tower are for me the most difficult challenges in BGEE with SCS. Nothing else even comes close to those two battles.

sarevok57

protection from magic scroll can be bought from the high hedge mage, and in fact, there is a random cleric on that map ( Benton I believe his name to be) can be pick pocketed for a protection from magic scroll, almost as if they knew you might have needed it

Aerakar

What I find challenging though with Kahrk is not his spells against you (i.e. the PfM scroll), but instead his speed and stoneskins. He is brutal as a fighter and chops up tanks painfully fast without tactics and lots of preparation and kiting.

Cactus

Traps! Fill every lvl with traps and kite him through. It takes a bit of preparation though

Raduziel

Just soloed him with my Fighter/Thief.

1) Traps in my way back. Just in case.

2) Oil of Speed + Potion of Invisibility

3) Potion of Clarity. You know, just in case.

4) Detect Illusion + Arrow of Dispelling + Arrow of Slaying.

Proceed with loot.

Aerakar

Good job using the arrows.

Question, does the arrow of slaying auto hit and give a saving throw? A 2nd question, do dispelling arrows auto-hit?

Raduziel

Aerakar said:

Good job using the arrows.

Question, does the arrow of slaying auto hit and give a saving throw? A 2nd question, do dispelling arrows auto-hit?

Both required a hit roll. But the slaying is instantly (no save throw) also is the dispelling.

And by the way, made a test: you don't need to dispel his protections. If your hit roll with the AoS is a hit the ogre mage will drop dead.

Edit: Thinking better about your question, IDK if AoS is auto-hit. There was a hit roll, but the game may be tricked my Thac0 bonus to assure a hit. The AoD, in other hand, can miss. In the test I've mentioned the shot with the AoD was a miss and with the AoS was a hit.

craymond727

Aerakar said:

Good job using the arrows.

Question, does the arrow of slaying auto hit and give a saving throw? A 2nd question, do dispelling arrows auto-hit?

If I remember correctly, it's a de-factor guaranteed hit. I think it's actually implemented as a massive THACO bonus.

Yamcha

Type: Use EFF file (177)
Target: Self (1)
Power: 0
IDS target: EA.IDS - 2 / ANYONE - 0
Timing mode: Instant/While equipped (2)
Dispel/Resistance: No dispel/bypass resistance (0)
Duration: 0
Probability 1: 100
Probability 2: 0
Resource: CDOMGHIT.EFF
# dice thrown/maximum level: 0
Dice size/minimum level: 0
Save type: ( No save )
Save bonus: 0
Unknown: 00 00 00 00 h
----

No thac0 bonus, do those bold lines implicate armor bypass too?

Yamcha

The arrow made that fight really easy this time around

Aerakar

I used the arrow in a recent run for the first time, after I had already pre-buffed, laid traps, summoned skeleton warriors as a blocking force, and pre-positioned party members. The arrow worked like a charm and he dropped immediately, so the other efforts were not needed at all.

He is cake with that arrow, very difficult without it with SCS.

Malinor

Basically you need two mages and one or two clerics. For example Xan and Quayle. Buff yourself beforehand (Stoneskin, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Mirror Images, and Greenstone Amulet). Quayle and possible another cleric summon several skeletons, which attack Kahrk. At the same time Xan moves near Kahrk and casts Detect Illusions (it will remove Mirror Images). Quayle casts Invisibility Purge (3rd level cleric spell) to remove Improved Invisibility. Kahrk will cast another mirror images => Xan casts another Detect Illusions and Quayle casts Spellthrust to remove Minor Globe of Invulnerability.

Next you can use Agannazar's scorchers (wand) to kill Kahrk.
This will become even more easier if you have a thief, who can detect illusions to remove Improved Invisiblity and mirrors. And generally many other SCS fights also.

Arunsun

Kahrk is just about the only guy I don't fight in a no reload run. It really pains me to waste a protection from magic scroll for no decent loot.

Raduziel

Malinor said:

This will become even more easier if you have a thief, who can detect illusions to remove Improved Invisiblity and mirrors. And generally many other SCS fights also.

I made a run using a Thief -> Wizard Slayer and that is absolutely true.

1) Made him appear and...

2) Tiax sent his ghast as a folder cannon to keep Kahrk busy until Charname's...

3) Detect Illusion kicks in -> His Mirror Image was gone and Charname was able to land an...

4) Arrow of Dispelling -> Applied the WS miscast magic and exposing him completely so the rest of the party kept...

5) Hitting him with the point/sharp/blunt end of whatever they were using until he stops moving.

By the way: i) if you're playing a WS and are not carrying AoD, you're playing it wrong; ii) Thief -> WS is way more powerful than I ever imagined, especially due to the fact that I maximized Detect Illusion before dualing (actually, that was the only skill I invested).

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Humanoid_Taifun

@Raduziel If you are hitting people with "the" blunt end of whatever you are holding, your fingers are in the wrong place.

Raduziel

Humanoid_Taifun said:

@Raduziel If you are hitting people with "the" blunt end of whatever you are holding, your fingers are in the wrong place.

I mean that because of the type of damage, but apparently I committed a mistake.

VanDerBerg

Time to resurrect this ancient thread. Beaten this guy today for the first time on SCS insane. Spell thrust and slow on Xan, holy smite or two on Branwen (not sure if he is even evil, but I assume he is). two times call lightning on CHARNAME druid, meanwhile Ajantis and Kivan tanked him. He is dead, and only Kivan and Branwen died. Big success.

jmerry

And here I am ... just brute-forced it in chapter 2. OK, chapter 2 after clearing pretty much all of the wilderness, but still. I even have the kill shot.

He was just so embarrassed at losing to a lower-level party ...

VanDerBerg

Congratulations. Though, your main char has 108 HP, Khalid 69. Minsc 67, Jaehira 57... Which means that (unless you are using max HP on level up, and even with that), they would be quite close to the level limit in BG, so not really a low level party by BG standards.

All that aside, this has to be one of the hardest encounters for unprepared in BG1. You are walking around the Firewine Bridge, getting ambushed by kobolds and skeletons, and all of a sudden a hasted level 12 ogre mage with all possible protections jumps in front of you...

jmerry

I'm not using maximum HP here. Those 109 HP for the protagonist include berserker rage, and the bonus from 19 Con. She actually has 94=59+35 HP as a level 7 berserker at the time of the shot. She rolled well, and so did Minsc. Khalid didn't.

Though yes, they are fairly close to the cap. I decided to push all the way to Imoen getting her thief skills back after a level 6 dual before entering the Nashkel mines, and this shot is from late in the process. All of the characters have at least one level left to go before the cap, but that's about it in most cases.
What do they lack? A lot of very useful scrolls only found in chapter 3+. No Spell Thrust, no Secret Word, only Polymorph Other as a level 4 offensive arcane spell.

So, my answer to that minor globe? Use an invisibility potion, retreat, wait it out. The Improved Haste was still going when I came back (8 APR - probably should have waited a few more rounds), but at least I could use more of my spells.

Looking back at that post ... yeah, my use of "lower-level" is confusing there. I meant it from Kahrk's perspective, not from the perspective of BG1 parties in general.

This one isn't a fully logged run; it's just the pre-show to my "last hurrah" run of 2.5. A katana-using human berserker for one half of the picture ...

VanDerBerg

Yeah, without Spell Thrust against level 12 ogre mage who has improved haste, remove magic, stoneskin, mirror image and minor globe of invulnerability, I don't think there is other option than wait for the globe to go off. Even if you can buff yourself with potions to be immune to everything he throws your way, there is still Remove Magic problem, plus his 8 attacks per round with (presumably) very low thac0. Don't think anything at that point can reliably facetank him. Maybe dwarven defender or blade, but even they would probably die quickly.

jmerry

Yes, Kahrk has a THAC0 of 3. 9 base, +3 to hit from proficiencies, +3 to hit from strength. Kahrk's melee attacks deal 1d10+11 damage and crit on a 19.

A dwarven defender going all out could reach -11 AC vs slashing (0 base with a potion of defense/invulnerability, -1 from a protection item, -3 from 17 Dex, -4 type modifier from full plate, -3 type modifier from belt). With 55% physical resistance in defensive stance ... you're still taking about 22 damage per round from the melee attacks as long as Improved Haste is active.

A blade with defensive spin could get better AC, but they have to worry about the 10% chance of crits since they can't wear a helmet. 26.4 melee damage per round even with the best possible AC, and much more dangerous spike damage because of the crits.

VanDerBerg

So it is actually easier to face tank Sarevok (who I think only has 2 APR) than Kahrk. Interesting. I will try once with DD to go head-to-head with him. With potion every round, he might be able to survive.

Aerakar

SCS Kahrk is by far the most difficult encounter for me in all of BG1. These days I usually just buy the ogre mage killing arrow and take the easy path. He is a beast!

VanDerBerg

Yes, Kahrk has a THAC0 of 3. 9 base, +3 to hit from proficiencies, +3 to hit from strength. Kahrk's melee attacks deal 1d10+11 damage and crit on a 19.

A dwarven defender going all out could reach -11 AC vs slashing (0 base with a potion of defense/invulnerability, -1 from a protection item, -3 from 17 Dex, -4 type modifier from full plate, -3 type modifier from belt). With 55% physical resistance in defensive stance ... you're still taking about 22 damage per round from the melee attacks as long as Improved Haste is active.

Actually, I think it is not as bad as this. I think DD's AC can be -14 (with ring of protection +2 and shield). So, with his thac0 of 3, Kahrk needs to roll 17 or higher to hit the DD. That's 0.2 probability of hitting. With 8 attacks per round, he is expected to hit DD around two times. Since his damage is 11-21 (so, 16 on the average, as the DD is protected from critical hits), he would be expected to deal 32 damage to the DD per round. Taking half of it off, it is 16 damage per round expected. Taking a healing potion per round reduces it to 8. So, a sturdy DD with a good constitution should be able to survive his improved haste assault...