How is companion level determined when they join you?

Sargon1

Title says it all, how exactly does the game decide how much XP will a companion have when they join your group? It's always somewhere around the amount the PC has, but I have seen them have anything from double the XP to about 2/3. So how exactly is this determined?

Tresset

There are several versions of each NPC that is in the game. Each version starts at a different level. There is a .2da file that tells the game which level of NPC to spawn depending on what level your PC is.

scriver

It is determined based on the level of CHARNAME, iirc, but there is only a certain amount of levels the NPCs are able to start from. 2-4 different set ups (for each game), iirc. So if the available starting levels for Enpezee Excessius is 4, 6, and 12, and he is recruited when CHARNAME is level 6, Enpezee will be level 6 too. But if he is recruited when CHARNAME is level 20, Enpezee will still only be level 12, as that is his highest available starting point.

There's likely guides out there on the great webs that can tell you about the specifics about the individual NPCs, I don't know any of them off-hand.

JuliusBorisov

@sargon1 You can check BG1 NPC's levels depending on the level of the main character here: http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/good.htm

In other words, for the original NPCs, they check your level.

For the new NPCs, that is, Dorn, Neera, Rasaad, and Baeloth, they check the total experience of the main character, they are scaled based off your actual experience rather than your level.

Also, don't forget what @Erg once discovered:

1) NPC level is indeed set on entering the area

2) NPC level will not change if you level up while standing in the area where they are

3) if you don't speak with them, or if you speak with them but don't let them join you, and leave the area, the NPC level will be reset on reentering the area. Time is not a factor, you can leave, level up, and reenter right away and the NPC will be updated according to your current level.

4) if you let them join and then park them, they will be locked forever at their current level.

Gallowglass

Also note that in BG2 it's different. BG2 (both original and BG2ee) looks at the average level of your whole party, not just the level of your protagonist. (Thus the same protagonist at the same level can find different versions of the same potential recruits by entering the relevant area with a different set of companions.)

One thing I'm not clear about - @bengoshi, how does it work for the new NPCs in BG2ee?

JuliusBorisov

@Gallowglass This is the discussion about BGEE, not BG2EE.

Anyway, for BG2 and BG2EE in terms of vanilla NPCs we have http://gibberlings3.net/iesdp/files/2da/2da_tob/npclevel.htm - the numbers in that table refer to your party's level, not your CHARNAME's level alone. Not the XP, level. This means when your party consists only of charname being a lvl 10 thief, Minsk is at the 10th level as well, for him meaning 800.000 XP.

I believe for the EE NPCs in BG2EE it's the same - as for vanilla NPCs in BG2 and BG2EE.

Gallowglass

bengoshi said:

@Gallowglass This is the discussion about BGEE, not BG2EE.

Of course, but I thought it relevant to warn people that the two games are not the same on this point.

bengoshi said:

I believe for the EE NPCs in BG2EE it's the same.

Er ... sorry, but for the avoidance of doubt, do you mean the same as for the original NPCs in BG2, or the same mechanism as for the EE NPCs in BG1ee? (I assume the former.)

thelovebat

bengoshi said:

@sargon1 You can check BG1 NPC's levels depending on the level of the main character here: http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/good.htm

In other words, for the original NPCs, they check your level.

For the new NPCs, that is, Dorn, Neera, Rasaad, and Baeloth, they check the total experience of the main character, they are scaled based off your actual experience rather than your level.

Also, don't forget what @Erg once discovered:

1) NPC level is indeed set on entering the area

2) NPC level will not change if you level up while standing in the area where they are

3) if you don't speak with them, or if you speak with them but don't let them join you, and leave the area, the NPC level will be reset on reentering the area. Time is not a factor, you can leave, level up, and reenter right away and the NPC will be updated according to your current level.

4) if you let them join and then park them, they will be locked forever at their current level.

On this note, without having a mod that allows you to level NPCs up from 1st level (the NPC starts with the normal amount of experience points they should, but you level them up from level 1 to their pre-determined level), upon them joining the party, the base game will give some NPCs crummy hit point rolls for their class/Constitution. Meaning that some fighting type party members could have gimped amounts of hit points if you don't grab them early before you level up a lot. In some cases the additional weapon proficiencies that are assigned to them when scaling up to your level may also not be what you'd want for them.

So sometimes it's best to talk to an NPC early, have them join then drop them from your party so you don't have to worry about them losing out on how you'd like to develop them, like in Pokemon. Then later if you want to use them you can if you want.

Wise_Grimwald

The above link given by The Love Bat doesn't tie in with my experience, so the latest patch which you have when installing SoD could have changed things. Level 4 Priest of Helm exp 7053 meeting up with Ajantis has Ajantis joining at Level 2 with only 4000 exp. That is unless I misunderstand the chart. Does the experience in the chart refer to the experience of the PC or the experience of the NPC? Of course, being EE, Dudleyfix hasn't been applied which could also be relevant.

smeagolheart

I believe the bg1ee's recent patch has added levelling mechanics scripted to boost NPC level once they join so the alternate level creature files aren't really needed. I could be wrong.

Erg

smeagolheart said:

I believe the bg1ee's recent patch has added levelling mechanics scripted to boost NPC level once they join so the alternate level creature files aren't really needed. I could be wrong.

Actually, the alternate level creature files are very much needed also with the new levelling script.

You are not wrong, but the current system is: good idea, horrible implementation.

rapsam2003

Erg said:

smeagolheart said:

I believe the bg1ee's recent patch has added levelling mechanics scripted to boost NPC level once they join so the alternate level creature files aren't really needed. I could be wrong.

Actually, the alternate level creature files are very much needed also with the new levelling script.

You are not wrong, but the current system is: good idea, horrible implementation.

Technically, the current system is just an addition to the old system. They cannot completely remove the old system, due to Engine limitations.

Erg

rapsam2003 said:

Technically, the current system is just an addition to the old system. They cannot completely remove the old system, due to Engine limitations.

I meant the butchering of npclevel.2da. That can and should be undone. They should have patched the CRE files instead of trivialising npclevel.2da.

Kilivitz

As of now, NPCs (only when joining for the first time) will be their lowest level incarnation (1, 2 or 4) depending on the character and their XP immediately gets bumped up to whichever threshold the main character has already achieved: 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000 or 32000.

I like this system but the 32k limit is way too low for BG1. It makes latecomers like Alora, Quayle and Tiax severely underpowered considering it's not at all uncommon to first enter BG city way over that XP point.

During SoD, there's a new threshold (161,000) but as of v 2.1 there's a bug where NPCs won't level up if you recruited them and then removed them from the party during BG1.

I really think they should add a couple more thresholds (64 and 128k, at least). Default BG1 behavior was that NPCs could join at up to Level 6 which is impossible right now.

rapsam2003

Erg said:

I meant the butchering of npclevel.2da. That can and should be undone. They should have patched the CRE files instead of trivialising npclevel.2da.

Justify why.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

The game I play is BG-TotSC Vanilla and recently I have found that CHARNAME level as determinative
is not quite accurate. According to Dudleyville NPC Guide [recommended] : Branwen will be Level 5 when recruited by Charname Level 4. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiC2ujn88PMAhUJIcAKHZMZD-YQFggdMAA&url=http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/good.htm&usg=AFQjCNHwQeb_nqc2ZMIbMei0SYVcRHhJGw&sig2=rKcJt80356g0iN9c9qBCdg

When I am playing an FMT then Fighter3/Mage3/Thief4 has proven sufficient to set Branwen to Level 5 when recruited. But if I am playing a single-class Fighter then I have to hit Level 5 in order to get the Level 5 Branwen.

Next play-through I am planning on experimenting with the Mage2/Fighter build so I don't know how it works with Dual Class or how it works with F/M,F/C,F/T, etc.

rapsam2003

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

The game I play is BG-TotSC Vanilla and recently I have found that CHARNAME level as determinative
is not quite accurate.

This stuff was changed in the EE version, so...vanilla stuff doesn't really apply here.

JuliusBorisov

rapsam2003 said:

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

The game I play is BG-TotSC Vanilla and recently I have found that CHARNAME level as determinative
is not quite accurate.

This stuff was changed in the EE version, so...vanilla stuff doesn't really apply here.

These boards are for everyone, not only for EE players. So, any pre-EE discoveries are welcome.

rapsam2003

bengoshi said:

These boards are for everyone, not only for EE players. So, any pre-EE discoveries are welcome.

I fully understand that, but I don't see how it contributes to the discussion, in the way that he said it.

MacHurto

As far as i can see, dudleyville info is still valid.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

rapsam2003 said:

bengoshi said:

These boards are for everyone, not only for EE players. So, any pre-EE discoveries are welcome.

I fully understand that, but I don't see how it contributes to the discussion, in the way that he said it.

In this forum there are more than a few that revel in chasing down such mysteries and out-of-the-way facts.

My intended contribution was at least three-fold:

A) ~Introducing the informative Dudleyville materials,
B ) ~Inviting mavens of the EE game to investigate the Branwen finding re the larger rule-of-thumb that Charname level in BGEE is the sole determinative factor checked by computer,
C) ~Enjoying my chance to chime in on a subject of recurring interest in my various playthroughs.

Cheers! Salud! ~