Staff of the Magi

deltago

What class/classes would make the best use of this weapon and why?

I was leaning towards a kensai/mage with max pips in quarterstaves and two-handed weapons but then I thought the automatic invisibility would make for some great backstabs or a extremely cheesy HiPs, so maybe an assassin/mage spamming tensors?

Better ideas?

joluv

deltago said:

spamming tensors

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Gallowglass

I haven't tried this, but it might be an awfully good weapon for a high-level F/M/T - he can use it because he's a Mage, he can backstab because he's a Thief, and he can strike at much better APR (and needn't rely on Tensor's Transformation) because he's a Fighter.

joluv

If you're feeling cheesy, I'd go straight Assassin. Remember that you can't backstab with SotM, so maybe switch between it and Staff of the Ram. If you're a fan of late duals, an Assassin 24 -> Fighter with SotM and SotR (and grandmastery) is just silly.

Gallowglass

Certainly you shouldn't be able to backstab with SotM because it's not usable by a plain Thief ... but nevertheless I'm sure that I've had Jan managing to backstab with it, so I'm assuming that others can do the same.

joluv

@Gallowglass: Hmm... I just tested this and got a "Your weapon is unsuitable for backstab." Same when I tried it with Jan.

Gallowglass

@joluv - oh. Well I'm sure it used to work, but that was some time ago, quite possibly not the current patch. So I guess maybe it was another error which has now been fixed.

Without the possibility of sneaking in extra backstabs, then I reckon @deltago's first instinct was right, it's probably best used (if you're using it as an actual melee weapon) in the hands of a Kensai->Mage. Taking maximum advantage would mean being prepared to micro-manage between attacks to maintain the invisibility.

Lord_Tansheron

The BS issue might be some old bug that is fixed by now (or just misremembering, been there...)

Actually, the SotM is imo best used not for the invisibility (though it's certainly useful for that) but for the dispel. Anyone with a decent THAC0 who can use the staff can make good use of that.

deltago

Lord_Tansheron said:

The BS issue might be some old bug that is fixed by now (or just misremembering, been there...)

Actually, the SotM is imo best used not for the invisibility (though it's certainly useful for that) but for the dispel. Anyone with a decent THAC0 who can use the staff can make good use of that.

The dispel is what i was thinking of when using it. I was hoping you could backstab with it to open up other build possibilities but I just tested it as well and Jan couldn't, which sucks, but you still get the +4 to hit when invisible, so it has that going for it.

Damage isn't that great, but it can be used to debuff before switching to a heavier hitter and the spell trap, saves, and AC are a nice touch.

It being available in chapter 2 is also a huge bonus as you can actually use it for more than half the game

Tresset

The determining factor for what makes a weapon suitable for backstab is its usability by single class thieves. If a single class thief can use the weapon it can do a backstab. If a single class thief cannot use a weapon then it cannot do a backstab. This is hardcoded and was apparently always the case.

vish

Staff of The Magi is incapable of backstabbing unfortunately because it is a Mage specific item. Also even when using a Staff of The Ram the backstabs you get are complete overkill. Worth noting that everything you wish you could backstab you can't. Backstabbing with a staff is fun but completely unneeded.

Only Mages or Thiefs with "Use Any Item" can use the staff. The staff is a must have for any Mage soloing due to it's Invisibilty, Spell Trap, and other protections. That being said it is better in the hands of a Fighter/Thief, dual or multi-class, if you're thinking in terms of raw offensive power. It is essentially a Carsomyr, and makes a very strong anti-caster melee fighter in ToB+SoA.

Lord_Tansheron

vish said:

Worth noting that everything you wish you could backstab you can't.

Ah, the downfall of "cheap" mechanics - either overkill, or unusable. Sad, but very, very true (especially with difficulty mods).

ifupauline

I think it goes the best on a mage. I found that item to be useful on a kensai/thief too, when you unlock "use any items". You can go invisible and easily escape the battlefield to hide in shadows and continue on backstabbing.

Grum

Straight Mage with robe of vecna.
Cast spell, go invisible.
Move, cast spell. Go invisible.
Repeat until nothing is left or you are out of spells.

Perhaps take a mere 3 levels in fighter before dualing to Mage for grandmastery in quarter staffs so you can finish off near dead enemies without wasting spell slots.

Yelocessej

The "Eight Hour Energy Spell Trap" feature is pretty sweet. It sucks up 30 spell levels!
So what if you can't backstab, you can just cast Mislead and go pound away on somebody (with a stabbity death permitted weapon).

sluckers

I always gave it to Imoen (well, I've only ever had it once), hopped her up on haste, strength and tenser's transformation etc., then let her go to town.

However, I'm sure a cleric mage would find it plenty useful for bludgeoning baddies. It's the class I would give it to.