Best thief skill stat startup scores

Bhryaen

I suppose this will depend on what one intends to do with one's thief overall, but I tend to try to play a thief that can do it all... and at Lvl1 that's not exactly an option, but certain stats work well through the first part of the game. I've rerolled a number of thieves now, never satisfied with the stats I've given them after learning something new.

For instance, a dwarf can jack up their lockpicking skill (to 60?) and get 1000g in Candlekeep, but that sacrifices hide/silent and pickpocket opportunities- and only dwarves get that anyway. But still, there's a good lockpick score for most early stuff, no? Hide/silent can be augmented with the hobgob boots near the start, so that's less of a concern, but getting anything from pickpocketing doesn't seem to be happening now. I used to invest nothing in PP and just redo until I got it, but in BGEE there seems to be a new message that I need my PP score high enough to even have a chance of getting anything. Fair enough, but I can't even get Phlydia's amulet in Candlekeep now (much less the trainer's longbow). I even started an elf w Dex19 and all points into PP- only got the lynx eye gem that you get anyway if you do her quest. Is there a good score to be able to PP successfully at an early level? Like for Hull's dagger, Algy's cloak, etc.? Then there's Detect Trap which can weigh in at Firewine or at least one Beregost house. Must be a min amount to be functional in the early game and progress effectively as the game goes along.

So I was just wondering what most BG players tend to do with their score allotment to maximize their thief skill progression opportunities...

SionIV

With 18 Charisma, you're able to convince the nobles on the first floor of the tavern in Candlekeep, to put their valuables into a chest upstairs. You need 50 to open this chest, you need 60 to open the chest with the Star Sapphire.

It's possible to gain over 2 000 gold in candleekeep, if you have 18 charisma, 60 open lock and talk to Firebead 30 times.

I make sure to get 60 in lockpick at level 1, then I'll get it up to 100 as early as possible. After that I put 100 into pick pocket, and lastly 100 in find traps. If i have anything left after this, I'll put it into hide in shadow and move silent.

Bhryaen

Harrumph- so my original idea of maxing OL was good after all... It looks like getting Hull's dagger is impossible that way though. I'll have to see if Algy's cloak is doable that way... Btw- the Firebead 30-click thingy doesn't seem to be working for me. Is there some trick to it?

Oh, and the noblefolks just seem to deposit a few new things in the same chest that the sapphire goes into, so it's not like there's a 50 and 60 chest, it seems.

SionIV

Bhryaen said:

Harrumph- so my original idea of maxing OL was good after all... It looks like getting Hull's dagger is impossible that way though. I'll have to see if Algy's cloak is doable that way... Btw- the Firebead 30-click thingy doesn't seem to be working for me. Is there some trick to it?

If you have 18 charisma, or 17 and a high reputation, he'll give the dagger to you.

You have to click on Firebead 30 times, this includes the first time you talk with him. Then you have to wait 5-10 seconds, and it will appear if you clicked the correct amount of times.

If you want the most out of Candlekeep, you want 18 charisma and 60 lockpick. With higher charisma you'll also get better rewards from the other quests, more gold from giving Hull his longsword, etc.

18 charisma gives you around 400 gold and a Dagger +1.

Bhryaen

Damn- so dwarves can't get it all... Why isn't it halforcs with the CHA penalty? *grumble*

SionIV

Bhryaen said:

Damn- so dwarves can't get it all... Why isn't it halforcs with the CHA penalty? *grumble*

Sadly Dwarves can't reach a high enough reaction modifier in Candlekeep. A Halfling would be the best choice for a rogue, you can reach 60 in lockpick and put the rest of your points into pick pocket.

JuliusBorisov

@Bhryaen I advice to look at the OP here https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/44551/multiclassed-shorty-thief-guide#latest by @Cactus - it will give you a lot of information to think further about thieving skills.

In my games I try to put all thieving skills at the start to HiS or MS because invisibility helps a lot, and in the start it's not different. Even with the boots not far away, you need any point in HiS or MS to hide more often. It could be question of life and death, really, whether you low-HP character succeeds in hiding with an archer coming after him, or not.

But if you're a completionist and can't play without looting that chest, you simply need 60 points in Open Locks from the start.

As for the PP skill, after the 1.2 patch for BGEE, it works differently from what it was before.

Now, there're the new pick pockets minimum requirements, which you need to have in order to PP stuff:

General Inventory: 10
Quick Items: 50
Ammunition: 50
Rings: 60
Amulet, Cloak, Gauntlet, Belt: 80
Weapons: 95

Armor, boots, helmets, and shields cannot be pick-pocketed if they're equipped.

This explains why you couldn't PP an amulet.

Bhryaen

bengoshi said:

{snip}

Now, there're the new pick pockets minimum requirements, which you need to have in order to PP stuff:

General Inventory: 10
Quick Items: 50
Ammunition: 50
Rings: 60
Amulet, Cloak, Gauntlet, Belt: 80
Weapons: 95

Armor, boots, helmets, and shields cannot be pick-pocketed if they're equipped.

This explains why you couldn't PP an amulet.

Ah ha! The best PP score at game start is 70 with a DEX19 elf, all points into PP [EDIT: erm, no, it isn't... half-elf and halfling can also get 70], so... yeah. I'll just have to hope Algernonsense simply has his cloak in inventory rather than wearing it... or wait until the end of the game to get it...

Bhryaen

@bengoshi You know, that guide by @cactus oddly leaves out elves, halfelves, and halforcs from the "raw stats" accounting. I've tended to elves due to their DEX19 and triple-class option. Or are halforcs any different than humans in BGEE's thief skills? I assume halfling, gnome, and dwarf have the top three bonus counts? I'll likely never play a halfling thief just due to the huge difference that a max STR17 can do. I'm liking the halforc fighter-thief with the huge game-start STR19 backstab possibilities. That would make stealth a greater priority (as it always is at some point) but I tend to content myself with just trying 20 times to stealth successfully for the first 30-50% of the game, saving incessantly. By the end I need 100% for constant hit-and-runs.

elminster

Bhryaen said:

For instance, a dwarf can jack up their lockpicking skill (to 60?) and get 1000g in Candlekeep, but that sacrifices hide/silent and pickpocket opportunities- and only dwarves get that anyway.

Not sure what you mean by this but I believe the majority of the races can get the necessary 60 points.

Bhryaen

elminster said:

Not sure what you mean by this but I believe the majority of the races can get the necessary 60 points.

Yes, I figured this out subsequently. I'm going on very faded memory at present, still joggin' it- another reason for trying to get input on others' experience in thief-building...

Wowo

I basically always start with all of my initial points in Set Trap as it is such an effective skill at low levels and everything else works passably well.

CrevsDaak

If you're a Thief, you can also abuse of resting and set traps to kill Watchers, then you sell their armors and stuff for extra gold (but, if someone sees you, you'll get attacked by everyone). Once you get enough gold, you can Donate to pull up your Rep again, and you're good to go (you can infinite gold this way, anyway).

Mathsorcerer

I normally don't bother with the pick pocket skill, except in BG2EE when I want to exploit a ton of gold from the Shadow Thief merchant. If I do need a high skill level for it...well, that is why alchemists brew Potions of Thievery--2 potions and my thief is +80 to pick pockets, which is generally enough for anything we need.

SionIV

There are a few nice things that you can pickpocket from NPC's in BG:EE. If you play with SCS installed, pick pocket if one if not the best thieving skill, as you can pickpocket some very powerful potions from friendly NPC's.

Bhryaen

@SionIV Yeah, I remember getting a lot of good stuff through PP in BG1, even something off Tamoko near the end of the game, as I recall. I'd get the Wisdom Tome from the priest in Baldur's Gate City using PP, preferring to just kill Marek myself. Silke has potions as well. I'm just not sure exactly how the new PP mechanic will play out, what kind of points I'll have to invest in it to make it worth investing anything in.

And, yeah, SCS is a must. Mods are the next step. I have to remember how to install those next. *sigh*