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Switching "extra spell slot" weapon effects with other items

subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
Re-posting from the general kidding forum, because people here might have good familiarity with IWD magic items and be able to provide input:

another idea for the IWO: the various weapons that grant extra spell memorization slots are really annoying, because the second you switch to another weapon, or cast MMM or SR Magic Stone, you lose that spell.

Some players have appealed to Beamdog to change the engine to prevent this... but it seems to me the more obvious choice is to stop adding that effect to weapons. Or, in the case of a mod like this, to take the effect away from existing weapons. For balance reasons - it's a nice effect, we don't want to remove it from the game - it seems like the best plan is to switch the effects of certain weapons and wearable items.

For example: early in the game you can get a belt that confers permanent Bless on the wearer, and a war hammer that give +1 1st-level divine spell. Seems to me we could have the belt give +1 spell, and give the hammer Bless-while-equipped.

So, is anyone familiar with all of the extra-spell weapons? I recall the following:
- war hammer of holiness +1
- sanctified war hammer +3 (...?)
- sanctified morning star +3 (...?)
- mage dagger +2
- mage dagger +4

Any more?

Also, what items should get the extra spells? The priest spells could be switched with certain shields, I think. What about the mage daggers?

If people know the IWD items well and suggest switches for these effects, I can make it happen.

semiticgodFeytorSkatan

Comments

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,423
    Long Sword +3: Enforcer (an extra 1st and 2nd level mage spell) and Morning Star of the Gods (an extra 1st and 2nd level cleric spell).

    An easy way to get lost spells back is to use Wondrous Recall, presuming you have an 11th-level cleric using one of these weapons. I tried expanding the power of Wondrous Recall once but if you set it to recharge 6th-level spells for a 14th-level cleric then you really break the game because your cleric never has to sleep to memorize spells again; that effect was too powerful, even for an HoF game.

    You may combine the Boots of the Forgotten Ones, the Ring of Holiness, and one of these weapons to get quite a few extra cleric spells; you gain 3/2/1/1 just from the boots and ring alone. With the Sanctified War Hammer +3 your bonus spells become 5/3/2/1.

    I do not know how the effects stack. Will equipping a Mage Dagger +2 before equipping Kontik's Ring of Wizardy give you one extra 1st- and 2nd-level spell before doubling them or will it double your base spells then add one? *shrug* I guess I should find out. I think Evermemory (not sure if you can find it in the game but the file is there) and Kontik's Ring would quadruple your 1st-level spells. Does your wild mage really need 20 uses of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    NRD is totally broken anyway, so I really don't care about it.

    Hmm... maybe an easier fix is to simply remove the extra spells, and give each weapon a once/day use of Wondrous Recall. If the opcode can be tweaked, as you describe, then I could make the more powerful weapons Recall spells of higher level.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,423
    hrm...that's not a bad idea, @subtledoctor. Let the +1 weapons give a Wondrous Recall at, say, 3rd level (so it will refresh a 3rd level spell first, then a 2nd level if all 3rd-level slots are filled, etc), let the +2 weapons restore a 4th-level spell, and the +3 a 5th-level once per day. Of course, since these effects are once per day we could raise those limits to 4th, 5th, and 6th, respectively--cast Heal, equip the item, use it, then recover your lost Heal spell right away.

    Instead of a global effect that applies when equipped it would be a magical use, once per day. reset upon rest. Shouldn't be too difficult to edit this.

    semiticgod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    No, it would be super easy to remove the extra spells and add a once/day Wondrous Recall, I could do it very quickly by patching the items with Weidu. The more onerous parts are 1) gathering the complete list of items to be so affected; and 2) re-writing the description for each item.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,423
    NearInfinity has that relatively new extended search fearure that lets you search items for a particular opcode; the two in question here would be 42 (bonus wizard spells) and 62 (bonus priest spells).

    semiticgod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    Yeah, actually I would just use DELETE_EFFECT and ADD_ITEM_EFFECT in Weidu to completely automate the process.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,423
    I am a complete novice when it comes to Weidu. I keep telling myself I will learn more of it and become more skilled at it but I never take the time to do it.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    It takes a little time to learn, for sure. But I ultimately realized it can slash your time spent in NI to a fraction of what it was (depending on how much customization you do in NI).

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,678
    How do PnP rules deal with this characteristic? Is the player supposed to keep the weapon at hand?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    edited December 2015
    I don't know that those weapons exist in PnP. Certainly I expect you could come to some reasonable accommodation with the DM such that getting the benefit of the weapon isn't a straitjacket that prevents you letting it go for even the briefest of moments. Like maybe if it is *the* dagger in a scabbard on your hip (in IE terms, it's in a quick-weapon slot) then you could retain the benefits even if you *use* a sling or bow for a few rounds.

    Still, the best solution of all is to move that kind of passive benefit to a wearable garment that you're not likely to remove very much; and give weapons either passive attack bonuses, or use-per-charge spell abilities.

    semiticgod
  • FeytorFeytor Member Posts: 57



    [..............] cast MMM or SR Magic Stone, you lose that spell.

    didn't know that MM also lost the spell :(

    Makes my mage look rather silly:

    -Yo mage drop the dagger and get your sling!!!
    -No I will lose my extra spell
    -You already lost it noobmage!
    -oh I didnt knew that

    Also if I recall correctly, un-equiping deletes the last spell slot in your wizz book. Not an empty slot.

    all-in-all, you can put me down for +spells on belts etc. and once a day use on weapons.

    greetings from a noobmage :smiley:

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,383
    Don't know enough about IWD to propose which items to switch effects from, but this sure sounds like a glorious idea.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,352
    Unfortunately I don't know when I would have time to do this.

    Meanwhile, the other thing that always bothered me is '+APR' effects on weapons. Put crappy Belm in your off-hand, and you get an extra attack with the Flail of Ages in you main hand. Makes no sense!

    Happily, I think I've solved that one:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/697219/#Comment_697219

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,295
    Here are the items (weapons-only). It's fewer than you might think.

    Wizard:
    UDAGG2B.ITM (Mage Dagger +1)
    UDAGG3B.ITM (Mage Dagger +2)
    UDAGG4B.ITM (Mage Dagger +3)
    UDAGG5A.ITM (Mage Dagger +4)
    ULSWD4B.ITM (Long Sword +3: Enforcer)

    Priest:
    U1HAM2A.ITM (Sanctified War Hammer +1)
    U1HAM4B.ITM (Sanctified War Hammer +3)
    U2HAM3A.ITM (Sanctified War Hammer +2)
    XU2HAM3.ITM (Sanctified War Hammer +2)
    UMSTR3B.ITM (Sanctified Morning Star +3)
    UMSTR4A.ITM (Morning Star of the Gods +3)

    I'd be willing to put something together (I'm in the middle of a IWDEE playthrough, so I've got a vested interest in it :wink: ). @subtledoctor's suggested Wondrous Recall would probably be closest to the original intent of the items (i.e., more spells per day).

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,295
    edited January 2016
    Here's a quick mod to convert these extra spell slot items to items with a once per day 'Restore Spells' power.

    EDIT: Sorry, forgot to mention that I was lazy and its BYOW (Bring Your Own WeiDU). :smile:

    Post edited by AstroBryGuy on
    MathsorcererBillyYank
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