I'm the same in that regard, Vidar. I started with the second and have never tried the first.
I was wondering as I read through Hadriel's thread if his issue was that he simply thought it impossible to create the proper expansion of the first two games and that any attempt would do nothing more than degrade the series.
That kind of assumption and the resulting anger and lack of trust is understandable given what seems to be the focus of the modern big-game market and the love that people have for BG. I have my own list of games that I consider disappointments that seem to stem from businesspeople attempting to simply play it safe and milk the market (Oblivion, which to me had fun gameplay but ultimately felt soulless and dead) and sometimes take advantage of names that I love (Shadowrun, Fallout 3).
What gives me hope is seeing smaller teams without the shackles of suits that don't care about making truly good games starting to come onto the scene moved by a simple love of games and the experiences that people used to be able to have playing them. What I see in this team is a love of BG that inspires me to believe that it has what it takes to truly do justice with a third game.
More than just that, I think that it's good to give modern gamers an experience of which they may have been deprived with most modern games. This kind of project is a grand experiment that I really hope succeeds. That is what I'm paying for, along with having games that I loved updated and refreshed (speaking for a moment as if I've already played BGI and other games such as Planescape:Torment, which I just started; I think that I can do this, since I know that I'll love the games).
On a side note, since it was brought up, I was absolutely blown away by DA:O. The story wasn't overly complicated, but I thought that all of the characters had extremely well-crafted personalities, and I loved interacting with every one of them and actually really cared about them. It didn't play with this emotion too much as some games have done in the past, but the emotion was still there. I also loved the characters in DA2 (not quite as much as the first, not that that's really a problem); I didn't have quite as much fun playing the actual game, though it had an interesting structure. It's interesting to me to see someone say that the characters were lackluster, but to each his/her own.
DA:O was phenomenal. I liked the characters and the feel of the game. Strategically, it was similar to BG and a lot of encounters could get you killed unless you were very clever and thought things through.
You really only have 3 evil characters in BG2. (Korgan, Viconia, Edwin)
Considering how late you get Sarevok, I really don't count him.
Since Overhaul has already confirmed that the 3 new NPCs will be in BG2 the numbers are this.
8 Good (+Rasaad) 7 Neutral (+Neera, lose Yoshi halfway through) 5 Evil (+Dorn, +Sarevok in ToB)
If they can find a way to get us up to like 9 9 8 or something closer to BG1 I'd be thrilled. As it is they already mentioned in the AMAA that they'd be adding a pure thief in BG2 but really didn't tell us more than that.
The confirmed that those npc's will follow into BG2? That's an odd thing to do.. I mean, they haven't even started on it yet, have they?
I think the community would be more interested in hearing about 'new' NPC's to BG2.
Not that I'm displeased, just find it a bit peculiar.
The original thread alleged that BG:EE was nothing but a shameless money grab and dared anybody to prove him wrong. Okay:
$10: Baldur's Gate on Amazon. Buggy, doesn't run on modern machines unless you already know about the secret mods, community-written bug-fixes, work-arounds, and patches. Even the "Update" button on the installer, to find the website and download the latest patch, is broken.
The original thread alleged that BG:EE was nothing but a shameless money grab and dared anybody to prove him wrong. Okay:
$10: Baldur's Gate on Amazon. Buggy, doesn't run on modern machines unless you already know about the secret mods, community-written bug-fixes, work-arounds, and patches. Even the "Update" button on the installer, to find the website and download the latest patch, is broken.
$20: Baldur's Gate Enhanced. Does run.
Seems worth it to me.
My thoughts exactly. Let's face it, lets pretend that you couldn't buy the original Baldur's Gate for $10, but that it costs $20. If I didn't already own the discs, I'd probably pay it just because I really enjoy this game, and would want to play it, but now lets add more things to that game, Now we have the game in the bg2 engine, with widescreen capabilities, which save me the hassle of installing the mod, but further more, we have three brand new characters never before seen in a mod, new portrait packs, new voice sets, new quests, new UI, new areas, new videos, AND the Blackguard kit, and on top of that it will continue getting bug fixes, as well as DLC to continue enhancing even after release, PLUS not only is this available on newer PCs, but also mac, IPad and Android, and possibly linux later on down the road. ADDITIONALLY they fixed up the multiplayer, which I don't know every mod ever made, but I personally have never seen anything that fixes the multiplayer so well, plus it will work cross platform to boot. And all of this stuff being done with some of the original developers, making it less likely to in any way "ruin" the spirit of bg.
SO, if you ask me if $20 is worth it, yeah, I think its way MORE than worth it.
$10: Baldur's Gate on Amazon. Buggy, doesn't run on modern machines unless you already know about the secret mods, community-written bug-fixes, work-arounds, and patches. Even the "Update" button on the installer, to find the website and download the latest patch, is broken.
$20: Baldur's Gate Enhanced. Does run.
Seems worth it to me.
For me, it's this. Is twenty bucks really going to break anyone's bank? That's a night out at the movies these days.
I would have paid just to get a working copy of this game with updated graphics. Tbh, I might end up buying this on three platforms.
That probably makes me sound like a shill, but the way I look at it, $60 for a hundred or so hours of entertainment is worth it. That's the price of modern games, and most of them disappoint me.
I dunno, I didn't like DA:O cause I thought it was the least immersive, most agonizingly slow RPG experience I've played in a long time. They did a horrible job with introducing the world, in my opinion.
But back on topic, I definitely think the Enhanced editions are worth 20 dollars, and the extra 10 dollars in comparison to the GoG version isn't much, if you include all the fixes and new content that's coming in.
Besides, I still use the old CD versions of Baldur's Gate, and as I have windows 7, running BG is absolute hell. I look forward to having a version that WORKS without black boxes appearing behind every thing.
$10: Baldur's Gate on Amazon. Buggy, doesn't run on modern machines unless you already know about the secret mods, community-written bug-fixes, work-arounds, and patches. Even the "Update" button on the installer, to find the website and download the latest patch, is broken.
$20: Baldur's Gate Enhanced. Does run.
This is a very skewed presentation. The GoG version, for example, works just fine and no additional patches/mods are required to play, finish and enjoy the game.
Not saying EE isn't worth it (I did pre-order it) but a bit more objectivity and a bit less fanboyism would be nice.
What you're buying is what the homepage says you're buying: http://www.baldursgate.com/ Simple as that. It's up to individuals to decide whether that's enough or not.
I first bought the original when I was a single dad of three kids. Get the kids off to school, go to work, come home, supper, homework, dishes, laundry, baths. And when the kids finally went to bed I wasn't going anywhere. Repeat day after day. That couple of hours I had when it was quiet at night had to be spent on something that took me away from reality. BG was that something for me. I love this game !
I haven't had the discs for several years. I had no idea you could buy the game on line. When I heard about BGEE I was excited.
I wouldn't want it to be completely different. Would you replace the Mona Lisa with a Mona Brittany? No! You put it in a nicer frame, maybe add an accent light. Sounds like what Overhaul has done.
And for just $20. You can't feed two people in a decent restaurant for that. And that is just one nights entertainment. This is good for months of fun. I would have paid a hell of a lot more than $20.
Text book fantasy characters in Dragon Age? ...Let's examine this a little more closely.
We've got a... Sarcastic, slightly foolish ex-Paladin. Bisexual elven assassin who has never actually killed anybody personally. Former superspy whose cover was being a minstrel, had a change of heart and became a nun. Dark witch with an Randian outlook but is not one of the villains, and is in fact is one of your most stalwart allies. Sentient sociopath golem whose decades-long stasis has given it a psychotic hatred of all birds. Dwarven berserker who takes the drunkeness to its logical, pathetic extreme and is a completely disgusting, dishonorable, loud-mouthed lout instead of a regal, honorbound, traditionalist bastion.
No, no, I'm afraid I haven't read about any characters like that in Tolkien or Jordan. Please point me to the novels you're reading that so thoroughly turn standard fantasy tropes on their ears.
Thanks for posting this. I was going to, but you've saved me the trouble.
You really only have 3 evil characters in BG2. (Korgan, Viconia, Edwin)
Considering how late you get Sarevok, I really don't count him.
Since Overhaul has already confirmed that the 3 new NPCs will be in BG2 the numbers are this.
8 Good (+Rasaad) 7 Neutral (+Neera, lose Yoshi halfway through) 5 Evil (+Dorn, +Sarevok in ToB)
If they can find a way to get us up to like 9 9 8 or something closer to BG1 I'd be thrilled. As it is they already mentioned in the AMAA that they'd be adding a pure thief in BG2 but really didn't tell us more than that.
The confirmed that those npc's will follow into BG2? That's an odd thing to do.. I mean, they haven't even started on it yet, have they?
I think the community would be more interested in hearing about 'new' NPC's to BG2.
Not that I'm displeased, just find it a bit peculiar.
I don't remember if it was Twitter or in the AMAA (I think it was Trent's twitter after they were announced) but they did say that they would be bringing all 3 NPCs back for BG2. They also stated that the romances the three have are only starter romances in BG1 and things won't get truly deep until BG2 (I prolly stated that wrong but oh well.)
You really only have 3 evil characters in BG2. (Korgan, Viconia, Edwin)
Considering how late you get Sarevok, I really don't count him.
Since Overhaul has already confirmed that the 3 new NPCs will be in BG2 the numbers are this.
8 Good (+Rasaad) 7 Neutral (+Neera, lose Yoshi halfway through) 5 Evil (+Dorn, +Sarevok in ToB)
If they can find a way to get us up to like 9 9 8 or something closer to BG1 I'd be thrilled. As it is they already mentioned in the AMAA that they'd be adding a pure thief in BG2 but really didn't tell us more than that.
The confirmed that those npc's will follow into BG2? That's an odd thing to do.. I mean, they haven't even started on it yet, have they?
I think the community would be more interested in hearing about 'new' NPC's to BG2.
Not that I'm displeased, just find it a bit peculiar.
I don't remember if it was Twitter or in the AMAA (I think it was Trent's twitter after they were announced) but they did say that they would be bringing all 3 NPCs back for BG2. They also stated that the romances the three have are only starter romances in BG1 and things won't get truly deep until BG2 (I prolly stated that wrong but oh well.)
Nah, you're right on the dot. I remember them saying that, yes.
They also hinted at an Evil Thief joining the fray in BGII:EE.
I don't remember them hinting that the thief would be evil, but I do remember them hinting about a pure class thief. Most people are assuming the thief will be evil because all the current evil npcs are pure class.
I don't remember them hinting that the thief would be evil, but I do remember them hinting about a pure class thief. Most people are assuming the thief will be evil because all the current evil npcs are pure class.
... and the fact that there are only three of them.
The screenshots certainly look as though the game's visual appearance has been strongly enhanced in lush, sleek hi-resolution. If the zoom feature works out nicely, this is in many ways going to feel like playing a new game graphically.
The new content is a lot if, as I intend to play my first BG:EE game, you add all three new NPCs and play the Black Pits module. There's going to be friendship paths with all three ('pre-romances' if romance is where you want to take it in BG2), they each have quests, and they will presumably interact both with one another and with the old NPCs.
So that is, for my money, like getting a new game. $18 for a game of this quality? Please.
I certainly don't think it's a money grab and I think the devs have a genuine love for the game. I am however, disappointed with new content, especially given what we have in terms of mods.
Things like the Black Pits not being integrated into the game, not being able to alter dialogue, things which aren't necessarily the devs fault when the coding for this game is by all accounts very hard and having multiple parties involved with lisencing issues, but things which none the less leave us customers with a product that is less than what it could be. I believe the devs are doing $20 worth of work, but we aren't getting $20 worth of 'enhanced' game.
...I am however, disappointed with new content... Things like the Black Pits not being integrated into the game, not being able to alter dialogue...
I was pleasantly surprised to see confirmation from devs that the old NPCs may interact with the news ones anywhere in the game. We'll find out shortly just how much of that there is. But NPC interaction in BG1 was lacking in comparison with BG2. And with the addition of new NPCs now they have an opportunity to develop the old NPCs.
The 6 hrs of gameplay provided by the Blacks Pits will provide XP that would be unbalancing. But I would expect that the modding community will offer mod components to remove XP cap and integrate the Black Pits and its XP into the campaign, if that's what the player wishes.
After BG2:EE is released I'm sure that we'll be able to play the EEs together in one go via an official 'BGT' style playthrough. I know that, for my part, I will be playing with tactical AI enhancement mods that increase difficulty such as SCS and SCSII. The higher difficulty may justify starting BG2 several levels higher. It will be an interesting question whether the extra XP from the Black Pits, Adventure Y, etc., new modules for BG2, etc., will prove unbalancing.
In regards to the licensing, might not the developers get around it by releasing an "unofficial" mod that alters conversations, adds banter and what not. I think David Gaider did the same thing for the throne of bhaal expansion by adding a lot of content. At least it would have a semi-official ring of legitimacy to it.
Comments
I thought I was buying prime real estate on the Sword Coast
Vidar, I expect you will find a game with the most developed story line you ever seen. Enjoy!
I was wondering as I read through Hadriel's thread if his issue was that he simply thought it impossible to create the proper expansion of the first two games and that any attempt would do nothing more than degrade the series.
That kind of assumption and the resulting anger and lack of trust is understandable given what seems to be the focus of the modern big-game market and the love that people have for BG. I have my own list of games that I consider disappointments that seem to stem from businesspeople attempting to simply play it safe and milk the market (Oblivion, which to me had fun gameplay but ultimately felt soulless and dead) and sometimes take advantage of names that I love (Shadowrun, Fallout 3).
What gives me hope is seeing smaller teams without the shackles of suits that don't care about making truly good games starting to come onto the scene moved by a simple love of games and the experiences that people used to be able to have playing them. What I see in this team is a love of BG that inspires me to believe that it has what it takes to truly do justice with a third game.
More than just that, I think that it's good to give modern gamers an experience of which they may have been deprived with most modern games. This kind of project is a grand experiment that I really hope succeeds. That is what I'm paying for, along with having games that I loved updated and refreshed (speaking for a moment as if I've already played BGI and other games such as Planescape:Torment, which I just started; I think that I can do this, since I know that I'll love the games).
On a side note, since it was brought up, I was absolutely blown away by DA:O. The story wasn't overly complicated, but I thought that all of the characters had extremely well-crafted personalities, and I loved interacting with every one of them and actually really cared about them. It didn't play with this emotion too much as some games have done in the past, but the emotion was still there. I also loved the characters in DA2 (not quite as much as the first, not that that's really a problem); I didn't have quite as much fun playing the actual game, though it had an interesting structure. It's interesting to me to see someone say that the characters were lackluster, but to each his/her own.
DA2 is a huge step backward.
I think the community would be more interested in hearing about 'new' NPC's to BG2.
Not that I'm displeased, just find it a bit peculiar.
$10: Baldur's Gate on Amazon. Buggy, doesn't run on modern machines unless you already know about the secret mods, community-written bug-fixes, work-arounds, and patches. Even the "Update" button on the installer, to find the website and download the latest patch, is broken.
$20: Baldur's Gate Enhanced. Does run.
Seems worth it to me.
Let's face it, lets pretend that you couldn't buy the original Baldur's Gate for $10, but that it costs $20.
If I didn't already own the discs, I'd probably pay it just because I really enjoy this game, and would want to play it, but now lets add more things to that game,
Now we have the game in the bg2 engine, with widescreen capabilities, which save me the hassle of installing the mod, but further more, we have three brand new characters never before seen in a mod, new portrait packs, new voice sets, new quests, new UI, new areas, new videos, AND the Blackguard kit, and on top of that it will continue getting bug fixes, as well as DLC to continue enhancing even after release, PLUS not only is this available on newer PCs, but also mac, IPad and Android, and possibly linux later on down the road. ADDITIONALLY they fixed up the multiplayer, which I don't know every mod ever made, but I personally have never seen anything that fixes the multiplayer so well, plus it will work cross platform to boot.
And all of this stuff being done with some of the original developers, making it less likely to in any way "ruin" the spirit of bg.
SO, if you ask me if $20 is worth it, yeah, I think its way MORE than worth it.
I would have paid just to get a working copy of this game with updated graphics. Tbh, I might end up buying this on three platforms.
That probably makes me sound like a shill, but the way I look at it, $60 for a hundred or so hours of entertainment is worth it. That's the price of modern games, and most of them disappoint me.
But back on topic, I definitely think the Enhanced editions are worth 20 dollars, and the extra 10 dollars in comparison to the GoG version isn't much, if you include all the fixes and new content that's coming in.
Besides, I still use the old CD versions of Baldur's Gate, and as I have windows 7, running BG is absolute hell. I look forward to having a version that WORKS without black boxes appearing behind every thing.
Not saying EE isn't worth it (I did pre-order it) but a bit more objectivity and a bit less fanboyism would be nice.
What you're buying is what the homepage says you're buying: http://www.baldursgate.com/ Simple as that. It's up to individuals to decide whether that's enough or not.
I haven't had the discs for several years. I had no idea you could buy the game on line. When I heard about BGEE I was excited.
I wouldn't want it to be completely different. Would you replace the Mona Lisa with a Mona Brittany? No! You put it in a nicer frame, maybe add an accent light. Sounds like what Overhaul has done.
And for just $20. You can't feed two people in a decent restaurant for that. And that is just one nights entertainment. This is good for months of fun. I would have paid a hell of a lot more than $20.
They also hinted at an Evil Thief joining the fray in BGII:EE.
The new content is a lot if, as I intend to play my first BG:EE game, you add all three new NPCs and play the Black Pits module. There's going to be friendship paths with all three ('pre-romances' if romance is where you want to take it in BG2), they each have quests, and they will presumably interact both with one another and with the old NPCs.
So that is, for my money, like getting a new game. $18 for a game of this quality? Please.
Things like the Black Pits not being integrated into the game, not being able to alter dialogue, things which aren't necessarily the devs fault when the coding for this game is by all accounts very hard and having multiple parties involved with lisencing issues, but things which none the less leave us customers with a product that is less than what it could be. I believe the devs are doing $20 worth of work, but we aren't getting $20 worth of 'enhanced' game.
The 6 hrs of gameplay provided by the Blacks Pits will provide XP that would be unbalancing. But I would expect that the modding community will offer mod components to remove XP cap and integrate the Black Pits and its XP into the campaign, if that's what the player wishes.
After BG2:EE is released I'm sure that we'll be able to play the EEs together in one go via an official 'BGT' style playthrough. I know that, for my part, I will be playing with tactical AI enhancement mods that increase difficulty such as SCS and SCSII. The higher difficulty may justify starting BG2 several levels higher. It will be an interesting question whether the extra XP from the Black Pits, Adventure Y, etc., new modules for BG2, etc., will prove unbalancing.