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Returning enthusiast to the game: A few questions

Hello everyone. I am a returning enthusiast, I played the original SoA many years back, and since I was quite young at the time, I made a paladin/cavalier I think. I followed the generally good path, I only remember that close to the end I changed alignment I think, because I had morphed too many times into a beast.

Now I bought BG2EE and I'd like to ask some general questions. You don't have to answer every question of course, any answer is great!

1) Subjective question: I think I would like to follow a more evil path this time. I've read on here that it can be more fulfilling. In what sense? What has your experience been? Isn't it true that the game is "suited" more for a good playthrough?

2) I was thinking of making an Assassin/mage type of character. What combo is good for this? Kensei/mage?

3) Since I also want to have magic, I am currently overwhelmed by the selection of spells available. Is there a guide somewhere which can help me understand what spells I can go for and which playstyle?

4) Another subjective question: Do you think it's worth playing BG1:EE? I've never played it, but thought it would be less interesting, because of the lower level battles. Of course I might be wrong, and the plot unfolding might be more than worth the lower levels.

Thank you all, this forum is really great.

Musigny

Comments

  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    For an evil playthrough take Dorn. You get to do legit evil stuff. There is more evil in his quests than the rest of the saga put together

    EpicPain
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    1. The evil option has been expanded slightly mainly through the Dorn quests. However the good path generally yields greater rewards.

    2. Thief/Mage will work fine. If you are willing to modify your game a teeny bit using EEKeeper you can actually modify that to Assassin/Mage. I guess it depends on your concept of Assassin - also if you are thinking to dual-class (humans only) or multi-class (certain demi-humans who are able to take the relevant class combo).

    3. Not too sure however...

    4. ...Definitely. As you say you are struggling with being overwhelmed by spells. Playing through BG1 will allow you to learn them at a more appropriate pace instead of dumping a ton on you when you start.

    EpicPainGallowglassMusigny
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    EpicPain said:

    1) Subjective question: I think I would like to follow a more evil path this time. I've read on here that it can be more fulfilling. In what sense? What has your experience been? Isn't it true that the game is "suited" more for a good playthrough?

    "Fulfilling" is a subjective term. Based on the mechanics, the game is mostly biased towards being good and fighting evil. But that doesn't mean you can't have a great time playing evil, and there are also several very good rewards for being evil.
    EpicPain said:

    2) I was thinking of making an Assassin/mage type of character. What combo is good for this? Kensei/mage?

    I assume you mean assassin/mage thematically, and not as the class combination? Because you can totally dual-class an Assassin into a Mage.
    EpicPain said:

    3) Since I also want to have magic, I am currently overwhelmed by the selection of spells available. Is there a guide somewhere which can help me understand what spells I can go for and which playstyle?

    That would be quite extensive, but I'm sure there are lists. Check the forums, there are some spell selection guides that I remember seeing.
    EpicPain said:

    4) Another subjective question: Do you think it's worth playing BG1:EE? I've never played it, but thought it would be less interesting, because of the lower level battles. Of course I might be wrong, and the plot unfolding might be more than worth the lower levels.

    I find BG1 to be a bit of a different game, less linear, more towards exploration. That being said, it's also more simplistic in several respects, and does have some annoying things (like narrow hallways, awkward maps, etc.). I don't really play BG1 anymore myself, but only you can say if that's how you feel, too.

    EpicPain
  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    edited January 2016
    decado said:

    1. The evil option has been expanded slightly mainly through the Dorn quests. However the good path generally yields greater rewards.

    2. Thief/Mage will work fine. If you are willing to modify your game a teeny bit using EEKeeper you can actually modify that to Assassin/Mage. I guess it depends on your concept of Assassin - also if you are thinking to dual-class (humans only) or multi-class (certain demi-humans who are able to take the relevant class combo).

    3. Not too sure however...

    4. ...Definitely. As you say you are struggling with being overwhelmed by spells. Playing through BG1 will allow you to learn them at a more appropriate pace instead of dumping a ton on you when you start.

    HI, and thank you! Does the good path yield better rewards xp-wise, item-wise or both? Along that line, what is it that the evil path offers? More mental satisfaction?

    Also, what is EE? Is it a third party program for BG saved games? Can you modify anything on your characters with it?

  • CaeriaCaeria Member Posts: 201
    I've always thought this was a fairly good spell reference. Not perfect, nor as detailed as it could be, but it's better than nothing: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm

    EpicPainPantalionMusigny
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    EpicPain said:

    HI, and thank you! Does the good path yield better rewards xp-wise, item-wise or both?

    Mostly both. Also there are items that have bonus damage vs. evil resp. good, but since 99% of the game's enemies are evil there is a clear advantage to one side.
    EpicPain said:

    Also, what is EE? Is it a third party program for BG saved games? Can you modify anything on your characters with it?

    EEKeeper is a savegame editor, yes. You can modify a lot of things with it, pretty much anything concerning your characters. You cannot however change what items do (only what items you have), you would need a different editor for that (like Near Infinity).

    EpicPain
  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 580
    1. Playing Evil- in a society where law n order is pre-dominant, playing evil is a good challenge.
    Evil doesn't mean you go into town and slaugter everyone x_x (that is butchery ^^ and psychotic).
    Evil in this sense is how u can try and use the goodness to your benefits. Like making use of the
    Paladin of Torm to help you gain your power and stuffs etc.. to eventually gain claim your inheritance
    as the new God of Evil ( please ask from AO for your new portfolio xD you daddy's office was usurped).

    2 and 3 - If you want to learn to use the spells efficiently, make a mage don't dual or multi-class it on the
    1st run. Pause to look at what enemy mages use when you fight them ( especially liches).
    A quick way to know what spells are useful is to search for guides to using sorcerer not mages.

    4. BG1 really has very few spells you can cast before you need to sleep again.

    Overall, the most overpowering kind of mage is Wild Mage (ToB endgame your will know).
    If your do not wish for frequent death of pure mage character on 1st run, dual class Kensai/Mage will keep you alive and well.

    General advice is avoid EEkeeper on the first run. This way you will appreciate the mechanics of the game far better and not be spoilt by EEkeeper (unless you are very discipline xD, I am not though and succunbed to EEkeeper's temptation every so often).

    EpicPainlolien
  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    Bubbles said:

    1. Playing Evil- in a society where law n order is pre-dominant, playing evil is a good challenge.
    Evil doesn't mean you go into town and slaugter everyone x_x (that is butchery ^^ and psychotic).
    Evil in this sense is how u can try and use the goodness to your benefits. Like making use of the
    Paladin of Torm to help you gain your power and stuffs etc.. to eventually gain claim your inheritance
    as the new God of Evil ( please ask from AO for your new portfolio xD you daddy's office was usurped).

    2 and 3 - If you want to learn to use the spells efficiently, make a mage don't dual or multi-class it on the
    1st run. Pause to look at what enemy mages use when you fight them ( especially liches).
    A quick way to know what spells are useful is to search for guides to using sorcerer not mages.

    4. BG1 really has very few spells you can cast before you need to sleep again.

    Overall, the most overpowering kind of mage is Wild Mage (ToB endgame your will know).
    If your do not wish for frequent death of pure mage character on 1st run, dual class Kensai/Mage will keep you alive and well.

    General advice is avoid EEkeeper on the first run. This way you will appreciate the mechanics of the game far better and not be spoilt by EEkeeper (unless you are very discipline xD, I am not though and succunbed to EEkeeper's temptation every so often).

    Great answer. What is another example of cool things you could do when following the dark path?

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    Evil can be quite limited, apart from some very specific game driven choices at the end of SoA evil is generally limited to giving dick answers to people and then usually losing out on XP or items.

    Dorn's questline differs from this slightly.

    EpicPain
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    1) For your first run in several years, I'd recommend sticking to Good, because that's the default path assumed by most of the quests and so will be better for re-familiarising yourself with how everything works. But thereafter, yes, playing it the Evil way can be an interesting change. High-REP Evil plays fairly similarly to Good overall, but making different choices in some quests which offer a choice of path. Low-REP Evil tends to involve more fighting (which makes up for some of the XP lost from quests), basically more of a mad-axeman strategy.

    2) Dual an Assassin into a Mage, there's quite good synergy in that.

    3) There's a reasonably good list of spells at Gamebanshee.

    4) For sure, play BG1ee. For the most immersive experience of the Bhaalspawn story, start your protagonist in BG1ee and continue the same character through BG2ee. BG1ee is a pretty good story and ties in to BG2ee very well, and uses the same rules and game engine, but the play is interestingly different at lower levels - more physical, less magical (but it's fun figuring out how to make the most of the more limited magic, and I reckon it's also the best way to learn the BG magic system).

    EpicPainMusigny
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,114
    edited January 2016

    You've already got good answers, but here's my take on it anyways:

    1: You don't have to be pure evil or pure good. If you want to play again for the first time in a long time, I suggest taking a fairly neutral alignment and then handle each situation you encounter as you see fit. You'll make some "evil" choices and some "good" ones. 95% of those choices will have no real effect of the outcome of the end-game, so it doesn't really matter. If you want RP reasons to act this way, you can pick ie chaotic neutral and act kinda schizo :smiley: This will let you experience everything without applying moral limitations to your game.
    With that said, playing a truly evil character can be loads of fun of course and some quest rewards etc will differ depending on your choice of actions.

    2: as said above, you can play assassin->mage (human dual class), kensai->mage or if we should interpret the "assassin" description more thematcially, a F/T, F/M or F/M/T. I've played an assassin/mage multiclass and EEkeepered the thief into an assassin kit, and it's a really great character. Poison mix very well with alot of spells.

    3: I usually advice ppl to start using buffing spells in the beginning and then adding more and more offensive spells into the mix once you start to get used to it. Look at the mages you encounter, see what they cast, both offensive and defensive, and read the spell descriptions on how to counter it: what buffs counter their offensive spells and what attacks penetrate which of their defensive spells. Take it slow, there's no rush.

    4: Yes, I think it is. I think BG2 is a better game overall and for every run of BG1 I play 5 of BG2, BUT I still think BG1 is an amazing game and I think you should play it. Playing BG2 first though might make you a better player but instead you may be somewhat underwhelmed if you are used to higher levels and gear. Creating a character from level 1 and bringing her/him all the way through ToB is an awesome experience though!

    EpicPain
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited January 2016
    1-There are a few evil paths in some quests, but the end of the SoA can be very fulfilling for an evil player character indeed. Good guys miss some items and bonuses at the end of SoA, for reasons.

    Also, evil npcs are far superiour. Go team evil, Edwin, Viconia, Dorn, Korgan. Korgan and Dorn can slice/dice and chop up anyone between them, Viconia is the best cleric with huge magic resistance and is a crack shot with her sling, and Edwin is...well, he is the best mage bar none, he has a lot of spell slots! For a thief you can have Hexxat, for evil option and her interesting quests, but Jan is very capable too! Far more useful than Hexxat, with boosted thief skills from items and mage spell casting! You can keep Jan in an evil party unless your rep sinks too low. This is an excellent team, with two uber strong front line fighters, one very capable mage, one top performance cleric and a necessary thief. Your pc may be of any class to compliment the party. (even a weak class like skald or jester, if you are into that sort of thing)

    2-You can start as a human assasin and dual into mage. However dual classing is a bit tricky for a new player. As an assasin, forget traps/locks, thief npcs will take care of them, and focus on hide/move silently for backstabs. Get darts for maximum use of poison weapon. When to dual is the biggest question. Once you are comfortable with hide in shadows skill points you should dual. Waiting for x7 backstab is too much!

    3-Some spells are essential. Magic missile, mirror image, melf's minute meteors, haste, stoneskin (without this a mage is dead meat), improved invisibility (enemy mages can not target you!), breach (the most important spell in the game, without it, mages will slaughter you),, lower resistance (for dragons), protection from magic weapons (it gives protection against any tough monster melee, including vampires and golems), improved haste (for use on fighters, it turns them into destruction machines), mordenkainen sword (best tank summon) horrid wilting (massive damage). These are the essential spells for any self respecting spellcaster. Others you may try and see for yourself.

    4-I played bg2 before I knew bg1. And I love bg2 much much more than I do bg1. BG1 is okay, especially enhanced edition, but bg2 is so much superiour than its ancestor that in my mind there is no contest.

    EpicPainMusigny
  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    Skatan said:


    You've already got good answers, but here's my take on it anyways:

    1: You don't have to be pure evil or pure good. If you want to play again for the first time in a long time, I suggest taking a fairly neutral alignment and then handle each situation you encounter as you see fit. You'll make some "evil" choices and some "good" ones. 95% of those choices will have no real effect of the outcome of the end-game, so it doesn't really matter. If you want RP reasons to act this way, you can pick ie chaotic neutral and act kinda schizo :smiley: This will let you experience everything without applying moral limitations to your game.
    With that said, playing a truly evil character can be loads of fun of course and some quest rewards etc will differ depending on your choice of actions.

    2: as said above, you can play assassin->mage (human dual class), kensai->mage or if we should interpret the "assassin" description more thematcially, a F/T, F/M or F/M/T. I've played an assassin/mage multiclass and EEkeepered the thief into an assassin kit, and it's a really great character. Poison mix very well with alot of spells.

    3: I usually advice ppl to start using buffing spells in the beginning and then adding more and more offensive spells into the mix once you start to get used to it. Look at the mages you encounter, see what they cast, both offensive and defensive, and read the spell descriptions on how to counter it: what buffs counter their offensive spells and what attacks penetrate which of their defensive spells. Take it slow, there's no rush.

    4: Yes, I think it is. I think BG2 is a better game overall and for every run of BG1 I play 5 of BG2, BUT I still think BG1 is an amazing game and I think you should play it. Playing BG2 first though might make you a better player but instead you may be somewhat underwhelmed if you are used to higher levels and gear. Creating a character from level 1 and bringing her/him all the way through ToB is an awesome experience though!



    Thank you! For point #2, so you started with a thief/mage? At what point did you use EEKeeper to change it to assasin?

  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    edited January 2016
    lunar said:

    1-There are a few evil paths in some quests, but the end of the SoA can be very fulfilling for an evil player character indeed. Good guys miss some items and bonuses at the end of SoA, for reasons.

    Also, evil npcs are far superiour. Go team evil, Edwin, Viconia, Dorn, Korgan. Korgan and Dorn can slice/dice and chop up anyone between them, Viconia is the best cleric with huge magic resistance and is a crack shot with her sling, and Edwin is...well, he is the best mage bar none, he has a lot of spell slots! For a thief you can have Hexxat, for evil option and her interesting quests, but Jan is very capable too! Far more useful than Hexxat, with boosted thief skills from items and mage spell casting! You can keep Jan in an evil party unless your rep sinks too low. This is an excellent team, with two uber strong front line fighters, one very capable mage, one top performance cleric and a necessary thief. Your pc may be of any class to compliment the party. (even a weak class like skald or jester, if you are into that sort of thing)

    2-You can start as a human assasin and dual into mage. However dual classing is a bit tricky for a new player. As an assasin, forget traps/locks, thief npcs will take care of them, and focus on hide/move silently for backstabs. Get darts for maximum use of poison weapon. When to dual is the biggest question. Once you are comfortable with hide in shadows skill points you should dual. Waiting for x7 backstab is too much!

    3-Some spells are essential. Magic missile, mirror image, melf's minute meteors, haste, stoneskin (without this a mage is dead meat), improved invisibility (enemy mages can not target you!), breach (the most important spell in the game, without it, mages will slaughter you),, lower resistance (for dragons), protection from magic weapons (it gives protection against any tough monster melee, including vampires and golems), improved haste (for use on fighters, it turns them into destruction machines), mordenkainen sword (best tank summon) horrid wilting (massive damage). These are the essential spells for any self respecting spellcaster. Others you may try and see for yourself.

    4-I played bg2 before I knew bg1. And I love bg2 much much more than I do bg1. BG1 is okay, especially enhanced edition, but bg2 is so much superiour than its ancestor that in my mind there is no contest.

    Thank you so much for the heads up on these spells. Kind of a newbie question, so you can start as an assassin and dual at any point in the game you like or ar there restrictions?

    lunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited January 2016
    You need to be human, have at least 15 in dex and 17 in int in order to be able to dual from assasin to mage.
    (Ideally, have 18 in both dex and int)
    Once you dual, your first class (assasin) becomes inactive. You can not use assasin class abilities at all until your new class (mage) surpasses the old level. Thus, if you dual at lvl 10, you can not use thief abilities until your mage hits level 11. This makes high level duals impractical.

    Reaching level 11 as a mage is easy. Mage class becomes very hard to level up starting with lvl 12. (at lvl 12 they gain powerful 6th circle spells!) Thus, if you dual as a lvl 10 assasin, reaching lvl 11 mage is not too hard. If you dual at assasin level 11 or beyond, gaining those mage levels may be problematic.

    As a fledgling mage when you first dual, you will be very weak. You will be equal of a level 1 mage in spell slots, to hit rolls, saving throws even weapon proficiencies. Only thing you carry from your assasin levels is your hp. Hint:Pick find familiar spell when you first dual, the scroll is somewhat tricky to find. Cast it and talk to it to stash it into your backpack. Don't ever let your familiar fight and/or die!

    Have a big supply of scrolls, dump everyone from your party (don't dump any npc you plan to romance!) and gulp 2 potions of geniuses. Then scribe all of the scrolls. This will give you easy xp rush and will level your mage up to 6-7 instantly, if not more. Galomp the bookkeeper is a good source of scrolls. (you can pickpocket his high level scrolls too, if you have a thief with good pickpockets.)

    EpicPainMusigny
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    EpicPain said:

    Thank you so much for the heads up on these spells. Kind of a newbie question, so you can start as an assassin and dual at any point in the game you like or ar there restrictions?

    Dual-class does have some restrictions.

    1) you must be human (no other races can dual)
    2) you must be at least level 2 (but then any level will work)
    3) you must have certain attributes at least at a certain value (this varies depending on what you dual to/from; e.g. to dual into a mage you need at least 17 INT. Look up values for your combination if you care, but it's usually the main stat pretty high)

    Also, while you can dual OUT of a kitted class (e.g. Thief: Assassin) you cannot dual INTO a kit (e.g. only dual to Mage, not Mage: Conjurer). This is one of the big advantages of dual classing, as it allows you to get kits into class combinations (multiclass is always entirely unkitted).

    Note that restrictions usually carry over. If you e.g. dual from a Kensai into a Thief, you will not be able to wear armor or use bracers still (as those are forbidden to Kensai). Similarly, restrictions of the target class are also added, so if you e.g. dual a Berserker into a Cleric, you will not be able to use sharp weapons anymore (as those are forbidden to Clerics). However, there are some weird exceptions to these rules that have never been fully explained and/or categorized as bugged or WAI (e.g. Kensai->Mage *can* wear mage robes even though they're technically armor).

    Dual-classing is often said to be one of the most complicated aspects of BG game mechanics, so don't worry if it sounds confusing. Try it out for yourself a bit, and you'll quickly learn what works and how.

    EpicPainMusigny
  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    edited January 2016
    lunar said:

    You need to be human, have at least 15 in dex and 17 in int in order to be able to dual from assasin to mage.
    (Ideally, have 18 in both dex and int)
    Once you dual, your first class (assasin) becomes inactive. You can not use assasin class abilities at all until your new class (mage) surpasses the old level. Thus, if you dual at lvl 10, you can not use thief abilities until your mage hits level 11. This makes high level duals impractical.

    Reaching level 11 as a mage is easy. Mage class becomes very hard to level up starting with lvl 12. (at lvl 12 they gain powerful 6th circle spells!) Thus, if you dual as a lvl 10 assasin, reaching lvl 11 mage is not too hard. If you dual at assasin level 11 or beyond, gaining those mage levels may be problematic.

    As a fledgling mage when you first dual, you will be very weak. You will be equal of a level 1 mage in spell slots, to hit rolls, saving throws even weapon proficiencies. Only thing you carry from your assasin levels is your hp. Hint:Pick find familiar spell when you first dual, the scroll is somewhat tricky to find. Cast it and talk to it to stash it into your backpack. Don't ever let your familiar fight and/or die!

    Have a big supply of scrolls, dump everyone from your party (don't dump any npc you plan to romance!) and gulp 2 potions of geniuses. Then scribe all of the scrolls. This will give you easy xp rush and will level your mage up to 6-7 instantly, if not more. Galomp the bookkeeper is a good source of scrolls. (you can pickpocket his high level scrolls too, if you have a thief with good pickpockets.)

    So just to make sure, I become a true dual class, and can use both my class abilites at assasin lvl10/mage lvl 11?

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    lunar said:


    Have a big supply of scrolls, dump everyone from your party (don't dump any npc you plan to romance!) and gulp 2 potions of geniuses. Then scribe all of the scrolls. This will give you easy xp rush and will level your mage up to 6-7 instantly, if not more. Galomp the bookkeeper is a good source of scrolls. (you can pickpocket his high level scrolls too, if you have a thief with good pickpockets.)

    Note this only works in BG2, in BG1 the XP gained from scribing scrolls was reduced by x100 (i.e. for scribing a level 1 spell you get 10xp in BG1 whereas you get 1000xp in BG2 etc..).

    lunarMusigny
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    EpicPain said:

    So just to make sure, I become a true dual class, and can use both my class abilites at assasin lvl10/mage lvl 11?

    As soon as your new level is 1 higher than your old level (so yes, Ass10/Mage11 in this example) your old class is reactivated and you regain all the abilities you had before. From that point on you can use both classes' abilities, but you will not gain levels in your first class (it will remain what it is forever).

    lunarMusigny
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    This is a RPG, just play the game.

    It doesn't matter if you die, it doesn't matter if you restart.
    I think people are posting far too much metagame information.
    You don't know which spell to use, use the wrong one, it doesn't matter. You die, reload and try again.

    When BG came out, there was no in depth info available about how to play the game.
    It's possible that's one of the reasons so many of us are still playing, it's "our" game.

    As for BG1, it's better as a RPG, BG1 is the game that lets you be the charname. Play it first, take your charname across to BG2 and by the end, you will have "lived" the story.
    Though I would recommend the NPC mod for bg1.

    Most of all enjoy the game rather than trying to beat it. You want to be "evil" just do it, it doesn't work out and.......................?

    I'm not trying to snap anybody's head off, sorry if it comes across like that.

    EpicPainMusigny
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
    EpicPain said:


    4) Another subjective question: Do you think it's worth playing BG1:EE? I've never played it, but thought it would be less interesting, because of the lower level battles. Of course I might be wrong, and the plot unfolding might be more than worth the lower levels.
    Thank you all, this forum is really great.

    BG1 is a great game and the BG1EE version shares its engine with BG2EE thus removing the major diffference between the original BG1 and BG2. IMO, BG1EE offers a better learning curve to master the game concepts and rules.
    Another important point is that it nicely fits your character build: a thief is one of the most enjoyable class in BG1 and the mage is one of the most enjoyable class in BG2. Moreover in BG1 there are several arcane spellcaster companions with whom you can experiment spellcasting strategies (especially the evil kind). By the end of BG1 you are going to hit the xp cap = 161K, your thief will be lvl 10 (at 160K xp). Importing your savegame in BG2EE will allow you to efficiently dual class to a mage at the very beginning of the game. You can safely rely on your team members to get you out of the first dungeon. As already pointed out by other forumers, if you save all the scrolls you can find in the first dungeon, learning those spells once you are on the promenade will net you a nice xp boost. Your mage will start to be efficient and it won't take long before you reach the 375K xp/mage lvl11 required to recover your thief abilities.
    As regards the thief kit you will select it at the character creation time, no need to edit your file.
    Assassin is an excellent choice (poisoned weapons), you may also be interested in the new shadowdancer kit. Of course you can also ignore the thieves and play a multi or dual(kensai/berserker) class fighter/mage (same principle) or play a quite famous multiclass fighter/thief.
    If you select a human thief to dual class it later on, don't forget to plan your thieving skills progression. You cannot maximize all of them.

    lunarEpicPain
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,114
    edited January 2016
    EpicPain said:


    Thank you! For point #2, so you started with a thief/mage? At what point did you use EEKeeper to change it to assasin?

    I did it just after character creation and starting the game. After you get control of your character in Irenicus Chateau, save and exit. Open EEkeeper, change class kit to assassin, reduce character levels to 0 in both thief and mage slots*. Save in EEkeeper and load that save in the game. You will still have your old EXP so you will level up again from level 0. This applies the kit bonuses from assassin correctly so you don't have to add them manually to your thief levels and also (I think) reduces the thief skill points per level. Otherwise if you add kit bonuses to your thief/mage, you will have to many skill points from the vanilla thief levels.

    *Not sure it's necessary to reduce levels to 0 for mage, but I always do just in case. Maybe someone else knows?

    There are numerous threads and guides that discuss DC vs MC. For an assassin/mage I would go multiclass myself since if you want the most out of the assassin levels, you'll postpone the dual very late which is tedious. You'll be a weaker mage ofc, but you will be strong enough. If you go the evil route you can use Edwin who's an amazing mage and use your CHARNAME as the seconday mage.

    Good luck!
    //Skat.

    Musigny
  • EpicPainEpicPain Member Posts: 19
    Skatan said:

    EpicPain said:


    Thank you! For point #2, so you started with a thief/mage? At what point did you use EEKeeper to change it to assasin?

    I did it just after character creation and starting the game. After you get control of your character in Irenicus Chateau, save and exit. Open EEkeeper, change class kit to assassin, reduce character levels to 0 in both thief and mage slots*. Save in EEkeeper and load that save in the game. You will still have your old EXP so you will level up again from level 0. This applies the kit bonuses from assassin correctly so you don't have to add them manually to your thief levels and also (I think) reduces the thief skill points per level. Otherwise if you add kit bonuses to your thief/mage, you will have to many skill points from the vanilla thief levels.

    *Not sure it's necessary to reduce levels to 0 for mage, but I always do just in case. Maybe someone else knows?

    There are numerous threads and guides that discuss DC vs MC. For an assassin/mage I would go multiclass myself since if you want the most out of the assassin levels, you'll postpone the dual very late which is tedious. You'll be a weaker mage ofc, but you will be strong enough. If you go the evil route you can use Edwin who's an amazing mage and use your CHARNAME as the seconday mage.

    Good luck!
    //Skat.
    Thanks for the insights. What is this extra that I would get from these extra levels of assassin?

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,114
    edited January 2016
    EpicPain said:


    Thanks for the insights. What is this extra that I would get from these extra levels of assassin?

    You mean opposed to dualing? You'll get more poison per day of course, that's the obvious one. Since your focus will be chucking darts all day and all night, you can apply poison to most fights (one use per every 4 levels IIRC). You'll get more skillpoints so that you can be the party's only thief if you spend it on traps/locks instead of stealth (you'll have invisibility instead of stealth and knock instead of locks while you level up traps). You'll get higher backstab should you ever want to use it and better THAC0 from the thief levels than from being more mage than thief after dualing. You'll get more pips but that won't be an issue for you though. Eventually you'll get UAI as HLA and can equip armor and class/race/alignment restricted items if you wish. Lastly, you don't have any downtime while you dual meaning you can chuck those darts from start to finish without having to "waste" a pip while leveling your dualclass in order to do so (the pip is wasted after dualling if put in the same proficiency as the previous class). You'll be a weaker mage or fighter (depening on your choice for dual) though of course, that's the tradeoff, but you get access to both HLA's.

    Edit: Btw, you can pick any race for this in EEkeeper, but if you want to stay true to the rules, MC opens up more racial options than dual class, meaning you can be elf, half-elf or maybe gnome instead of just human. Both f these also add thief skill points. Elf brings with it the potential for 19 dex and gnome (if possible, someone have to confirm this) adds the saves bonus. I haven't tried making a gnome assassin/illusionist myself (I chose elf), so not sure how it's handled with the gnomes default mage kit, is it reverted to standard mage or does it stay illusionist with the added spell slot?

    EpicPain
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
    You'd better use a legit character for your first playthrough.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Musigny said:

    You'd better use a legit character for your first playthrough.

    ... Why?

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