Returning enthusiast to the game: A few questions
EpicPain
Member Posts: 19
Hello everyone. I am a returning enthusiast, I played the original SoA many years back, and since I was quite young at the time, I made a paladin/cavalier I think. I followed the generally good path, I only remember that close to the end I changed alignment I think, because I had morphed too many times into a beast.
Now I bought BG2EE and I'd like to ask some general questions. You don't have to answer every question of course, any answer is great!
1) Subjective question: I think I would like to follow a more evil path this time. I've read on here that it can be more fulfilling. In what sense? What has your experience been? Isn't it true that the game is "suited" more for a good playthrough?
2) I was thinking of making an Assassin/mage type of character. What combo is good for this? Kensei/mage?
3) Since I also want to have magic, I am currently overwhelmed by the selection of spells available. Is there a guide somewhere which can help me understand what spells I can go for and which playstyle?
4) Another subjective question: Do you think it's worth playing BG1:EE? I've never played it, but thought it would be less interesting, because of the lower level battles. Of course I might be wrong, and the plot unfolding might be more than worth the lower levels.
Thank you all, this forum is really great.
Now I bought BG2EE and I'd like to ask some general questions. You don't have to answer every question of course, any answer is great!
1) Subjective question: I think I would like to follow a more evil path this time. I've read on here that it can be more fulfilling. In what sense? What has your experience been? Isn't it true that the game is "suited" more for a good playthrough?
2) I was thinking of making an Assassin/mage type of character. What combo is good for this? Kensei/mage?
3) Since I also want to have magic, I am currently overwhelmed by the selection of spells available. Is there a guide somewhere which can help me understand what spells I can go for and which playstyle?
4) Another subjective question: Do you think it's worth playing BG1:EE? I've never played it, but thought it would be less interesting, because of the lower level battles. Of course I might be wrong, and the plot unfolding might be more than worth the lower levels.
Thank you all, this forum is really great.
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Comments
2. Thief/Mage will work fine. If you are willing to modify your game a teeny bit using EEKeeper you can actually modify that to Assassin/Mage. I guess it depends on your concept of Assassin - also if you are thinking to dual-class (humans only) or multi-class (certain demi-humans who are able to take the relevant class combo).
3. Not too sure however...
4. ...Definitely. As you say you are struggling with being overwhelmed by spells. Playing through BG1 will allow you to learn them at a more appropriate pace instead of dumping a ton on you when you start.
Also, what is EE? Is it a third party program for BG saved games? Can you modify anything on your characters with it?
Evil doesn't mean you go into town and slaugter everyone x_x (that is butchery ^^ and psychotic).
Evil in this sense is how u can try and use the goodness to your benefits. Like making use of the
Paladin of Torm to help you gain your power and stuffs etc.. to eventually gain claim your inheritance
as the new God of Evil ( please ask from AO for your new portfolio xD you daddy's office was usurped).
2 and 3 - If you want to learn to use the spells efficiently, make a mage don't dual or multi-class it on the
1st run. Pause to look at what enemy mages use when you fight them ( especially liches).
A quick way to know what spells are useful is to search for guides to using sorcerer not mages.
4. BG1 really has very few spells you can cast before you need to sleep again.
Overall, the most overpowering kind of mage is Wild Mage (ToB endgame your will know).
If your do not wish for frequent death of pure mage character on 1st run, dual class Kensai/Mage will keep you alive and well.
General advice is avoid EEkeeper on the first run. This way you will appreciate the mechanics of the game far better and not be spoilt by EEkeeper (unless you are very discipline xD, I am not though and succunbed to EEkeeper's temptation every so often).
Dorn's questline differs from this slightly.
2) Dual an Assassin into a Mage, there's quite good synergy in that.
3) There's a reasonably good list of spells at Gamebanshee.
4) For sure, play BG1ee. For the most immersive experience of the Bhaalspawn story, start your protagonist in BG1ee and continue the same character through BG2ee. BG1ee is a pretty good story and ties in to BG2ee very well, and uses the same rules and game engine, but the play is interestingly different at lower levels - more physical, less magical (but it's fun figuring out how to make the most of the more limited magic, and I reckon it's also the best way to learn the BG magic system).
You've already got good answers, but here's my take on it anyways:
1: You don't have to be pure evil or pure good. If you want to play again for the first time in a long time, I suggest taking a fairly neutral alignment and then handle each situation you encounter as you see fit. You'll make some "evil" choices and some "good" ones. 95% of those choices will have no real effect of the outcome of the end-game, so it doesn't really matter. If you want RP reasons to act this way, you can pick ie chaotic neutral and act kinda schizo This will let you experience everything without applying moral limitations to your game.
With that said, playing a truly evil character can be loads of fun of course and some quest rewards etc will differ depending on your choice of actions.
2: as said above, you can play assassin->mage (human dual class), kensai->mage or if we should interpret the "assassin" description more thematcially, a F/T, F/M or F/M/T. I've played an assassin/mage multiclass and EEkeepered the thief into an assassin kit, and it's a really great character. Poison mix very well with alot of spells.
3: I usually advice ppl to start using buffing spells in the beginning and then adding more and more offensive spells into the mix once you start to get used to it. Look at the mages you encounter, see what they cast, both offensive and defensive, and read the spell descriptions on how to counter it: what buffs counter their offensive spells and what attacks penetrate which of their defensive spells. Take it slow, there's no rush.
4: Yes, I think it is. I think BG2 is a better game overall and for every run of BG1 I play 5 of BG2, BUT I still think BG1 is an amazing game and I think you should play it. Playing BG2 first though might make you a better player but instead you may be somewhat underwhelmed if you are used to higher levels and gear. Creating a character from level 1 and bringing her/him all the way through ToB is an awesome experience though!
Also, evil npcs are far superiour. Go team evil, Edwin, Viconia, Dorn, Korgan. Korgan and Dorn can slice/dice and chop up anyone between them, Viconia is the best cleric with huge magic resistance and is a crack shot with her sling, and Edwin is...well, he is the best mage bar none, he has a lot of spell slots! For a thief you can have Hexxat, for evil option and her interesting quests, but Jan is very capable too! Far more useful than Hexxat, with boosted thief skills from items and mage spell casting! You can keep Jan in an evil party unless your rep sinks too low. This is an excellent team, with two uber strong front line fighters, one very capable mage, one top performance cleric and a necessary thief. Your pc may be of any class to compliment the party. (even a weak class like skald or jester, if you are into that sort of thing)
2-You can start as a human assasin and dual into mage. However dual classing is a bit tricky for a new player. As an assasin, forget traps/locks, thief npcs will take care of them, and focus on hide/move silently for backstabs. Get darts for maximum use of poison weapon. When to dual is the biggest question. Once you are comfortable with hide in shadows skill points you should dual. Waiting for x7 backstab is too much!
3-Some spells are essential. Magic missile, mirror image, melf's minute meteors, haste, stoneskin (without this a mage is dead meat), improved invisibility (enemy mages can not target you!), breach (the most important spell in the game, without it, mages will slaughter you),, lower resistance (for dragons), protection from magic weapons (it gives protection against any tough monster melee, including vampires and golems), improved haste (for use on fighters, it turns them into destruction machines), mordenkainen sword (best tank summon) horrid wilting (massive damage). These are the essential spells for any self respecting spellcaster. Others you may try and see for yourself.
4-I played bg2 before I knew bg1. And I love bg2 much much more than I do bg1. BG1 is okay, especially enhanced edition, but bg2 is so much superiour than its ancestor that in my mind there is no contest.
Thank you! For point #2, so you started with a thief/mage? At what point did you use EEKeeper to change it to assasin?
(Ideally, have 18 in both dex and int)
Once you dual, your first class (assasin) becomes inactive. You can not use assasin class abilities at all until your new class (mage) surpasses the old level. Thus, if you dual at lvl 10, you can not use thief abilities until your mage hits level 11. This makes high level duals impractical.
Reaching level 11 as a mage is easy. Mage class becomes very hard to level up starting with lvl 12. (at lvl 12 they gain powerful 6th circle spells!) Thus, if you dual as a lvl 10 assasin, reaching lvl 11 mage is not too hard. If you dual at assasin level 11 or beyond, gaining those mage levels may be problematic.
As a fledgling mage when you first dual, you will be very weak. You will be equal of a level 1 mage in spell slots, to hit rolls, saving throws even weapon proficiencies. Only thing you carry from your assasin levels is your hp. Hint:Pick find familiar spell when you first dual, the scroll is somewhat tricky to find. Cast it and talk to it to stash it into your backpack. Don't ever let your familiar fight and/or die!
Have a big supply of scrolls, dump everyone from your party (don't dump any npc you plan to romance!) and gulp 2 potions of geniuses. Then scribe all of the scrolls. This will give you easy xp rush and will level your mage up to 6-7 instantly, if not more. Galomp the bookkeeper is a good source of scrolls. (you can pickpocket his high level scrolls too, if you have a thief with good pickpockets.)
1) you must be human (no other races can dual)
2) you must be at least level 2 (but then any level will work)
3) you must have certain attributes at least at a certain value (this varies depending on what you dual to/from; e.g. to dual into a mage you need at least 17 INT. Look up values for your combination if you care, but it's usually the main stat pretty high)
Also, while you can dual OUT of a kitted class (e.g. Thief: Assassin) you cannot dual INTO a kit (e.g. only dual to Mage, not Mage: Conjurer). This is one of the big advantages of dual classing, as it allows you to get kits into class combinations (multiclass is always entirely unkitted).
Note that restrictions usually carry over. If you e.g. dual from a Kensai into a Thief, you will not be able to wear armor or use bracers still (as those are forbidden to Kensai). Similarly, restrictions of the target class are also added, so if you e.g. dual a Berserker into a Cleric, you will not be able to use sharp weapons anymore (as those are forbidden to Clerics). However, there are some weird exceptions to these rules that have never been fully explained and/or categorized as bugged or WAI (e.g. Kensai->Mage *can* wear mage robes even though they're technically armor).
Dual-classing is often said to be one of the most complicated aspects of BG game mechanics, so don't worry if it sounds confusing. Try it out for yourself a bit, and you'll quickly learn what works and how.
It doesn't matter if you die, it doesn't matter if you restart.
I think people are posting far too much metagame information.
You don't know which spell to use, use the wrong one, it doesn't matter. You die, reload and try again.
When BG came out, there was no in depth info available about how to play the game.
It's possible that's one of the reasons so many of us are still playing, it's "our" game.
As for BG1, it's better as a RPG, BG1 is the game that lets you be the charname. Play it first, take your charname across to BG2 and by the end, you will have "lived" the story.
Though I would recommend the NPC mod for bg1.
Most of all enjoy the game rather than trying to beat it. You want to be "evil" just do it, it doesn't work out and.......................?
I'm not trying to snap anybody's head off, sorry if it comes across like that.
Another important point is that it nicely fits your character build: a thief is one of the most enjoyable class in BG1 and the mage is one of the most enjoyable class in BG2. Moreover in BG1 there are several arcane spellcaster companions with whom you can experiment spellcasting strategies (especially the evil kind). By the end of BG1 you are going to hit the xp cap = 161K, your thief will be lvl 10 (at 160K xp). Importing your savegame in BG2EE will allow you to efficiently dual class to a mage at the very beginning of the game. You can safely rely on your team members to get you out of the first dungeon. As already pointed out by other forumers, if you save all the scrolls you can find in the first dungeon, learning those spells once you are on the promenade will net you a nice xp boost. Your mage will start to be efficient and it won't take long before you reach the 375K xp/mage lvl11 required to recover your thief abilities.
As regards the thief kit you will select it at the character creation time, no need to edit your file.
Assassin is an excellent choice (poisoned weapons), you may also be interested in the new shadowdancer kit. Of course you can also ignore the thieves and play a multi or dual(kensai/berserker) class fighter/mage (same principle) or play a quite famous multiclass fighter/thief.
If you select a human thief to dual class it later on, don't forget to plan your thieving skills progression. You cannot maximize all of them.
*Not sure it's necessary to reduce levels to 0 for mage, but I always do just in case. Maybe someone else knows?
There are numerous threads and guides that discuss DC vs MC. For an assassin/mage I would go multiclass myself since if you want the most out of the assassin levels, you'll postpone the dual very late which is tedious. You'll be a weaker mage ofc, but you will be strong enough. If you go the evil route you can use Edwin who's an amazing mage and use your CHARNAME as the seconday mage.
Good luck!
//Skat.
Edit: Btw, you can pick any race for this in EEkeeper, but if you want to stay true to the rules, MC opens up more racial options than dual class, meaning you can be elf, half-elf or maybe gnome instead of just human. Both f these also add thief skill points. Elf brings with it the potential for 19 dex and gnome (if possible, someone have to confirm this) adds the saves bonus. I haven't tried making a gnome assassin/illusionist myself (I chose elf), so not sure how it's handled with the gnomes default mage kit, is it reverted to standard mage or does it stay illusionist with the added spell slot?