Why rate things based on "Power creep" rather than general balance? By that metric, someone could make a mage with a 3 in Intelligence and they'd get an A+, but that's a terrible idea. Sure, giving an NPC straight eighteens and overpowered gear is bad, but so is forcing the player to carry dead weight.
Why rate things based on "Power creep" rather than general balance? By that metric, someone could make a mage with a 3 in Intelligence and they'd get an A+, but that's a terrible idea. Sure, giving an NPC straight eighteens and overpowered gear is bad, but so is forcing the player to carry dead weight.
Bear in mind my current party mix proves that I'm clearly insane, but generally it's because Power Creep matters far, far more. If a mod has useless fluff items everywhere, who cares? Weak items don't change balance, powerful ones do, there are dozens of amazing items in vanilla BG2 to equip a party of six, a Cursed Club +1 of Berserking changes nothing, a +5 Vorpal Club that grants Improved Haste when wielded changes everything.
And... If a mod introduces a 3 Int Mage... Who cares? It's four potions of genius and keep them away from Illithids and they're perfectly viable. A vanilla Bard with 3 in every stat? If their content and banters are good, keep 'em out of combat, give them some wands and keep them as a mascot, it's not like the game needs anyone but CHARNAME to beat it.
The theoretical ideal is something that expands the scope of the game without significantly altering game balance.
If their content and banters are good, keep 'em out of combat, give them some wands and keep them as a mascot, it's not like the game needs anyone but CHARNAME to beat it.
For an experienced player, sure. Not everyone is. Doesn't matter how good your dialogue is if I can't keep the character alive long enough to see any of it.
Keep in mind that, while people do use mod NPCs to see the writing, sometimes people also use them because they fill a niche. There are no evil thieves in non-EE BG2. That means if you want to do a low-rep run, you either make Charname a thief or do without.
So let's say I create an evil thief. Great. Now let's say I make them terrible at everything. Not great. I've just disappointed everyone who was hoping for a solid NPC to plug that gap.
It is arguably worse for an NPC to be overpowered than underpowered. That doesn't mean making them underpowered is a good thing.
If their content and banters are good, keep 'em out of combat, give them some wands and keep them as a mascot, it's not like the game needs anyone but CHARNAME to beat it.
For an experienced player, sure. Not everyone is. Doesn't matter how good your dialogue is if I can't keep the character alive long enough to see any of it.
Ignoring that Invisibility lasts 24 hours, why should the ability level of others have any bearing on the opinions I am sharing? I'm hardly being prescriptive in my reviews, after alltg, so others are welcome to grab Amber for the Blade of Roses and epic entangler sword if the items sound appealing, after all.
Ignoring that Invisibility lasts 24 hours, why should the ability level of others have any bearing on the opinions I am sharing?
You basically said "If an NPC is weak, who cares?" I am pointing out why people may well care. Just seemed weird to me to give a character an A+ and bump up their overall rating purely because they aren't very good at their job.
Eh, this is opinion, and Pantalion is entitled to his. Anyone can express theirs or raise counterpoints in their own threads, or even in replies to this thread. I like to hear people's perspective on these things.
People are more than welcome to provide their own reviews in this thread and I'll happily include put them up in the relevant post (though I foolishly neglected to make a bunch of early posts to get around the character length). And like I said, no need to feel like you need to stick to my style or format.
Is a well known issue that some mods introduce OP items and NPCs, that alter the balance of the game (thing that can be good or bad depending on what the player like). So a "power creep" rating has its sense as some players prefer to avoid to alter the balance and are warned (even if no one compel them to use the OP items).
But also to know the relative power of a new NPC is useful, as uber or under stats, bad allocated proficiencies and such things are relevant as some players prefer to avoid very weak or crippled NPCs.
I agree with the way that @Pantalion is doing in his review. If a mod introduces weapons or abilities that are more powerful than the vanilla game, it can break the game for some people. The game is designed so that Charname is generally going to be the best at whatever it is that he chooses to do. Introducing something in a mod that changes that main aspect of the game is game breaking.
Take for example Cernd. The guy is a wuss when you first get him, but it doesn't matter because there is enough equipment in the game to make him a viable companion, and you can eventually get him to a point that he becomes pretty powerful. Its ok if a character excels at something, such as Minsc or Keldorn at melee. What is not cool is when a mod introduces something that gives significantly more power than is otherwise available.
A +2 longsword is ok, fine, whatever. A +5 longsword with other abilities added is game breaking early game, because +5 weapons require either a lot of gold or a lot of dungeon delving. Just installing one using Wiedu is like cheating. If I wanted to give my party a +5 longsword, then I could just shadowkeeper it in.
Sure, I could drop the item...but then, what is the point of the mod? I might as well drop the character, too.
@mashedtaters you lost me at the end there. Skipping a whole mod because you don't like one item from it doesn't make sense. Skipping a whole mod because you don't like anything in the mod ... Sure. Let's let this thread get back to reviews shall we?
@Pantalion - you might find Amber's website an interesting read. It explains that the technical design was an attempt to mimic some aspects of Icewind Dale.
I agree with the way that @Pantalion is doing in his review.
The game is designed so that Charname is generally going to be the best at whatever it is that he chooses to do.
Sure, I could drop the item...but then, what is the point of the mod? I might as well drop the character, too.
1-Also I appreciate his way.
2-This is the choice of much players, but the game lets you chose a not so powerful class, roll low stats, don't give any OP to him as the first choice, don't play, maybe in a not conscious way, to have him with the 90% of the killings. Some Bhalspawn powers apart he is not different from NPCs. Charname is generally going to be the best for player choice, not for how the game is designed.
3- Maybe use a new NPC when you get bored of the vanilla ones? Or an interesting plot and quest? Good banters or romance? Using a NPC class not available in the game? I play notEE, in my game no wild mage or sorc NPCs, so I often play with Tashia, because I like her as NPC, and usually never use her OP summon. Sometimes I also use Kelsey, change Imoen in sorc or use a Charname one, always Tashia for me is boring.
I assume that when you find a new named sword you stop anyway and read its description, is part of the fun of the game. Then if you read +3APR, 2D20+50dmg, 18 different elemental damages, Imprisonment on hit no save is up to to think bull.... and throw it away or wow and use it. You don't have to use complicate and long calculations to see if it breaks game balance, you know it in 1/10 of a second. Evaluating any new item is part of the game, I don't see that big lost of immersion.
But if someone dislike a mod only for an item inside of it for me is fine.
Ah, no need to worry then. My overall ranking isn't a direct aggregate of the other five aspects, hence how Kelsey's D
Fair enough. It's just always bothered me how squeamish modders can be about giving their characters good stats. Like there's this undertone of "If my character is even slightly better than a Bioware at something then they'll be a Mary Sue." Saerileth's stats are garbage, and she's worse than a regular cavalier because she won't even use throwing axes, but we all know how people feel about her. Low numbers won't redeem a bad character, and (within reason) high numbers won't ruin a good one.
Also, you were talking about reviewing voicing earlier. Unfortunately, the answer is always "mediocre to terrible." I don't usually hold that against a mod, though; I couldn't do any better myself, and it's not fair to expect modders to be accomplished voice actors with access to expensive recording equipment.
Voicing is a tricky issue. On one hand, these are amateur efforts that yeah, don't have professional voice acting and how could you ever expect that? Sometimes they'll be less than great quality, not specifically in terms of the acting itself but just recording quality. But on the other hand, a character without even selection or action sounds actually does diminish my enjoyment of an npc mod. When it comes to npc mods, the #1 thing I want is for the character to feel like they could have come out of the box, which means some voicing but not a ton.
I think it's something worth commenting on anyway.
And for purposes of this thread, therefore, it's perfectly appropriate for someone reviewing a mod to talk about "power creep." I mean what's the alternative, *hiding* the fact of (e.g.) Tashia's ridiculous summon? It's good to know about, and anyone reading the thread can decide for themselves what they think about it and whether to use that mod.
I wasn't saying don't talk about it. Just that in terms of rating the character, I thought it'd make more sense to base it on how well their abilities and items fit with the overall game balance while helping to make them fun and unique, not just "They're rubbish, A+"
@subtledoctor, I never wanted to change someone's subjective and instinctual feelings about what is and isn't fun, I told in many topics that I believe that each player has the right to play and have fun as he like to do, and here I wrote: "But if someone dislike a mod only for an item inside of it for me is fine." And there was no implicit judgment, I really think that someone can like or dislike anything in this game according to his feelings. 2 hour before you posted I was writing in another topic "And that is fantastic, because each human being is different, unique and marvelous in his being so." .
If you think that I want to use my logic to impose my personal point of view about what people should like, think or do you really have misunderstood me. But since my english is not fluent (at least writing, as I learned it mainly travelling and talking to people) I suppose that I have a responsibility in this. I apologize.
About the fact that it's perfectly appropriate for someone reviewing a mod to talk about "power creep." I wrote : "Is a well known issue that some mods introduce OP items and NPCs, that alter the balance of the game (thing that can be good or bad depending on what the player like). So a "power creep" rating has its sense as some players prefer to avoid to alter the balance and are warned". There, even if my english is not perfect, is clear that I appreciate and don't criticize rewiews that talk about "power creep.".
I did not intend to spark a debate with my earlier comment to mashedtaters. We each weigh the content of a mod according to our personal preferences and style of play. Naturally those preferences in no way limit the freedom of anyone else to choose what they want in their own game. Also, these types of reviews are just one more source of information to help us make those choices, and also to give feedback to modders about what changes might make mods more appealing. This is all good, and I look forward to more of it.
@mashedtaters you lost me at the end there. Skipping a whole mod because you don't like one item from it doesn't make sense. Skipping a whole mod because you don't like anything in the mod ... Sure. Let's let this thread get back to reviews shall we?
Unfortunately, most modders who put game breaking items in their mods don't account for the fact that you're not going to use it. Either they install inventory checks that make sure you have the item in your inventory, which means that dialogues may not progress until you have the item, or even introduce bugs; or they don't install inventory checks to make sure you have the item in your inventory, which in turn breaks immersion because then NPCMOD will usually refer to an item that you dropped ages ago. Either way, it has the potential to introduce bugs or ruin immersion, or at the very least waste one or more perfectly good inventory slots. Its pointless and frustrating--hence the desire to drop the mod.
If I wanted to cheat, that option is always available to me via shadowkeeper. It is better for mods to stay in balance so that those of us who prefer to not cheat don't need to just to use the mod.
This is my review of one of my favorite mods of all time, the gibberlings3 BG2Tweak pack.
The mod is broken up into 5 different categories, and I will talk about each of them in minor detail one at a time. I will not talk about every aspect of this mod, because it is so freaking huge. But, I will highlight those that I want to. Keep in mind that every option presented by this mod is easily customizeable. You can choose to install everything or install only one thing. I use it mainly for convenience and to bring the game a little closer to what I envision the game should be. Be sure to install this mod in the correct order with other mods or you WILL experience bugs.
Cosmetic changes:
This section lets you do anything changing viconia's skin color to match her portait to fixing boo's squeak to be not so annoying. Sick of helmet animations blocking your character's hair color? Boom, no more helmet animations! Think Imoen's character portrays her as more of a mage than a theif? Boom, paperdoll and avatar changed to mage! About the only thing I found to be buggy was the avatar morphing script, which changes your character's paperdoll and avatar in-game via the use of an AI command. I couldn't quite figure out whether or not this mod was incompatible with another mod that I had installed or not, but last time I used it, it crashed the game. I also had a problem with the commoners use drab colors aspect. Instead of changing just their clothing color, it changed their skin color too, to brown or grey. Again, unsure if it was clashing with another mod or not. The best part of this section is the "force all dialogues to pause", which affects other mods too. Installing the mod just for this aspect is completely worth it--sometimes third party modders forget to command the game to pause during dialogue. This saves your party from certain death. I also really enjoy the icon improvements. Not really a fan of the disable portrait icons, but that is a matter of personal taste.
Content changes:
Absolutely number one thing to get: MORE INTERJECTIONS!! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING WITHOUT THIS MOD???!??!!?!?!?!? This part of the mod changes how the game checks for party banters. By default, the game checks to see if the person speaking can see the party member. If so, then it plays the banter. That is very disconcerting, especially, as we all know, at the main Yoshimo dialogue (no spoilers) when he's just on the other side of the door. This replaces it with a simple in-party check, so that all banters for your party members will play regardless of where they are on the map. Seriously, play with this mod. I like the alter hp interjections, and the additional bags of holding. The gems and potions require identification can certainly add to immersion, although it does add to inconvenience. The bonus merchants have interesting, non-game-breaking stuff. I love the female edwina portrait, its awesome. The only bug I encountered in this section was the use bg walking speeds, which caused a stutter.
Rule changes:
This section is for those of you who don't agree with the way Baldur's gate interpreted the DND rules. Unfortunately, not everything in this section is perfect. For example, I encountered some bugs with the various two-handed items. They kept reverting to the two-handed version instead of the one-handed version, without my say-so. The weapon styles for all is pretty useful if you want your cleric or druid to be more useful with that shield of hers. I'm not really a fan of the PNP thieving skills and mage cast in heavy armor, because I can never remember the rules for the different armors. For me it's better to just not use it. But it's great for all those AD&D fans out there. Read the whole description to get an idea of what is contained in this part of the mod. You can install to allow charname to be any race combined with any class. Any race can dual or multi, or no races can dual or multi. Want a gnome inquisitor? Boom, done. Want a half-elf assassin dualed to a mage? Boom, done. This part of the mod is very subjective. Some people see it as cheating, and others see it as innocent tweaking to their vision of the game. I personally love the PNP spellcasting tables. They make the game more like a tabletop game to me. I also like True Grandmastery. Some people think its cheating, but I don't. Some people think it's over powered, but I don't. Other's like the multi-class grandmastery as well, although I haven't found it to be useful. Multiclass character's don't get enough proficiency points imho to make this change worth it. My favorite part of this section is changing the proficiency system to be more like the original baldur's gate (and icewind dale) proficiency system. I never liked the aspect of AD&D that someone who knew how to use a longsword didn't know how to use a shortsword. This makes the game more how I envision it. Realize that if you install npc mods, you will probably have to shadowkeeper some of their pips back in. Read the descriptions carefully, because the writers are clear about what parts can potentially cause bugs and what parts don't.
Convenience Tweaks and/or Cheats:
Let's face it: every part of this section is one giant freaking cheat... But they're such awesome cheats!! Instead of making everything overpowered (like what I have mentioned in this thread), this section is a time saver. Sure, it can break immersion that your character is carrying around 3000 arrows and 800 potions of healing...but it just saves so much freaking time! You can have unlimited stacks of items, to save you trips to and from the store. That's what breaks immersion for me, is walking back and forth and back and forth just to sell all that stuff in the dungeon. Yes, that's how dungeon crawling is in real-life... ok, whatever, I love the unlimited stacking items. I just love it. Keep in mind, though, that this section of the mod is the most buggy of all, specifically the romance cheats and how they interact with npc mods. If you are planning on using romance mods, do not install the nothing kills romance script. You will experience painful stuttering. Just don't do it. You can make NPCs not fight or always happy, so you don't have to worry about reputation. Again, remember this section is for cheaters... if you like overpowered weapons, you will love this whole section.
Joinable NPC tweaks:
There are no bugs that I know of in this section. I prefer to keep my npc stats consistent in my playthroughs. I also like to make Montaroon an assassin because that seems to line up more with his character in my opinion. The improved fate spirit summoning definitely is for those who hold immersion above all else.
That's my review of one of my most favorite mods. This mod has become practically vanilla for me. The best part of it is the complete 100% customization.
Thank you all you modders out there for making this near-perfect, wonderful mod!!!!!
Most modders who put game breaking items in their mods don't account for the fact that you're not going to use it. They account for the fact that someone is going to use it, and feel happy to do so. They give a (minor imho) inconvenience to who don't like the item but this way the mod is playable by everyone.
Given the fact that everyone is free to like or dislike a mod, an item or anything else and to find something more or less immersion breaking according to his personal feelings. When reviewing something the things are different, the reviewer is free to have his opinions and criteria, but more objectivity is needed. Giving a personal opinion on what someone like or dislike is always welcome, to slash something in a review just for a personal and very subjective dislike is something different.*
Also what is gamebreaking and what is not is a subjective evaluation, like the one about how many new powerful items can be introduced in the game by mods. A reviewer that warns about an OP item make a good service to the readers, a reviewer that imposes his personal and very subjective dislikes over the readers can mislead them.* And calling an OP item "Tashia's ridiculous summon" seems very judgmental to me. It seems disrespectful both to the modder, to someone who has devoted his effort and his time to give a new content to the player's community for free, and to the players who choose to use the item. Imo Tashia's summon is powerful, too powerful, and I don't use it, but is far less gamebreaking then RoV, SoB, SoTM or the spells PI, IA and TS, as they are implemented in the vanilla game. And this is just my humble opinion, I don't want to impose it on other people. But I don't like if other people impose their implicit negative judgment on modders and players, using words like ridicolous.
@mashedtaters, I appreciate your review of the gibberlings3 BG2Tweak pack, I may not agree with some of your points, very few, but those are just opinions. But I find it a very good review, both informative and objective. Thanks.
*I just gave my opinions on how a good review must be. Opinions not related to the ones of @Pantalion and @mashedtaters that, as I have already told I appreciate.
But on the other hand, go read how people talk about, say, Saerileth. That modder put *tons* of time and effort and creativity into the mid, and gets trashed mercilessly.
Having played Saerileth, I vaguely recall ite beinge hilariouslye terriblee, withe ae misuseth ofe totes inconsistent olde Englishe, a paladin with a quarterethstaff so far up yon nether regions it's a miracle she could talk, and a ridiculous Romeo and Juliet inspired loli protagonist for "the greatest lovestory ever" which has two serious problems.
1: Shakespeare was not writing a love story. Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy, and a send-up of young love in general. The whole play is about children being retarded and the consequences of their vapid, shallow stupidity and lust, like the Saerileth mod.
2: Defenders of the mod seem always to claim that 14-15 years is historically accurate, which is just terrible, because this area of the Realms is most strongly linked to Western European medieval culture, where the average age of first marriage was generally in their mid to late twenties, with 95% occurring at the age of 19 or over and the "ideal" age having been considered 18-20+ since the Ancient Greeks. Younger marriages were typically by both genders to obtain or retain property, and even then the actual "marriage" frequently wouldn't occur until later.
But I digress, I'm up to the underdark, let's talk romance and colours.
Nalia Romance
Plot and Content: A- - Since I never play with Nalia, I honestly couldn't say if there's any extra plot beyond what she already has for quests, but I can say that the Fighter Stronghold, which is mandatory to woo the heiress, takes way, way too long. I was bouncing between Watcher's Keep and the fort forever trying to get things to progress.
Generally Nalia comes across as pretty self-absorbed, with little concern over the Bhaalspawn being a literal demigod and potentially non-human, two aspects with very real and interesting avenues of exploration that conspicuous in their absence. Regardless, she goes a little into her backstory, ties in the Flail of Ages, and generally manages to remain inoffensive and add a little welcome nuance to her character and plenty of variety for a CHARNAME to retort with. She does keeps referring to her (late) aunt being scandalised without correctly using the appropriate past tense, however, which I assume is just a silly oversight on part of the developer since it's canon that she decides to stand and fight for her ancestral home against golem invaders. *Cough.* Later on she becomes a bit more invested in CHARNAME's struggles, but generally it's still largely centred around the keep and Nalia herself, rather than any particular feeling of shared experience.
The mod does include one additional, I believe romance based, quest, which isn't particularly lengthy, but does help give some closure on the whole keep storyline, and the sheer number of talks is probably the highest I've seen - Well over 60 talks in SoA, not including flirt tracks or friendship banters, and she does at least account for your inhuman nature in one such dialogue, though as usual the fact that CHARNAME is super young for anything but a human or half-elf and the logistical concerns involved with a never-aging romantic partner are never addressed.
In terms of consistency, you do get the opportunity to talk based off your profession here and there, and being a healer can help during your quest when you heal a quest NPC, though to no real effect, and my immersion was seriously challenged when my CHARNAME didn't immediately turn around and say "Okay... So... You want me to raise him now?", but that's a problem for vanilla as well.
{Flirts} are in full force, by the way. Including PID ones. Sigh. But that said, the mod was, perhaps due to Nalia's "prim and proper nature" pleasantly low key in terms of creepiness. I think the worst she does is flash some ankle at some point, and the flirts can be disabled by PID, with few, if any, {actions} in her actual dialogues.
Power Creep: A+ - I've not even seen anything unique added, except motivation to keep Nalia over Imoen. It's funny what a bad build can do, I guarantee that if she started out as a fighter with 1 less Constitution and 1 more Strength, she would have been one of the most popular characters in SoA. Even her quest didn't include anything beyond some full plate and low level magical gear.
And then I Keepered her into the Grizzly Bear kit. For a laugh.
Melodrama: A - Despite adding some gritty darkness to Nalia's already pretty dark backstory, Nalia is actually surprisingly agreeable, with far more tolerance for "imperfect" answers than vanilla NPCs and a generally low level of angst throughout. She even calls herself out for being melodramatic over something that barely even registered on my battered Fade-o-meter.
Bugginess: B+ - Possibly as a result of this or any myriad other mods I have on test at the moment, the dialogue with Nalia's aunt crashed the game repeatedly, necessitating Ctrl+Y to deal with her. I supposed I could also have Charmed her and had her attack the keep golems as usual, but otherwise everything's been glitch, and typo, free as far as I've seen except for one point - the end of Suldanasellar involves two "confirmations", both the vanilla Nalia and romance Nalia confirmation, one after the other, and not necessarily in order.
Overall: A - It's surprising, but despite loathing Nalia in general, I found her romance to be one of the better done ones. Nothing world shattering, no high drama just a decently likeable NPC who "rounded the edges" off the original's more irritating traits while still remaining true to them.
Keldorn Romance
Plot and Content: A - Even without romance Keldorn gets a new personal quest chasing criminals with multiple endings, the ability to chat with him about other vanilla characters, locations, his faith... And with the romance his PID tree expands to classics like "help me a beetle in in my shirt", "I can't tie my own shoes", "let me send you {smouldering looks}" and so on. The {stuff} by the way, is tied in pretty well, and pretty minimal overall.
I generally skip Keldorn for being easy mode (and a jerk), but as far as I can tell his personality is in keeping with vanilla, with a decently written arc where he gets over his grief and actually ended up as kind of buddies, where every now and then he'd ask about CHARNAME's day when they were about to rest, with a wealth of options to choose from with different options for each (and he, as a Paladin, is well aware of your evil nature, which gets addressed). Keldorn also remembers anything you previously said in conversation with him (Mention liking wine and historical dramas? He might look out for such a thing and get it for you), and is generally a bro.
It also offers the option to "help Keldorn with his wounds". This is actually an interesting concept, though I'd have liked the conversation to be based on how injured he actually was rather than what appears to be a random selection when you rest. Generally he describes the wound, you whip out some bandages, you get a few options for treatment, and he says the wound will heal faster once treated (which is a lie, 1 HP as usual, alas). It's still got some seriously weird and creepy options you really shouldn't do to someone who is injured and bleeding, but it's optional and nowhere near as badly done as Fade. Generally I appreciated the roleplay angle of it for a Cleric/Mage to save spell slots (though options to include spells in treatment never came up) and would be totally down for a flavour mod where you treat your injured party mates and actually get a few HP restored at rest time (ideally sans {description} and creepy stuff entirely). Of course I could just be missing an appropriate fetish for stitching gaping wounds for its inclusion, in which case.... Ew?
Some other niggles are that some of the responses CHARNAME can come out with are weirdly manipulative and psycho (he's cut his hand? Better rub your finger in it and stick it in your mouth!), particularly considering the romance is generally supposed to be for "Good", presumably mostly mentally stable, CHARNAMEs... And Keldorn offered to "lay on hands" for some "healing light of Torm", which was offensive, because Inquisitors don't get lay on hands, cut it out Keldorn.
Power Creep: A - So far the only extra item I've seen that aren't plot junk is a +2 Halberd. No complaints here.
Melodrama: A- - Keldorn waxes emotional for a lot of early "love talks" over his failed marriage. It didn't ever fall into angst, fortunately.
Bugginess: B - For some reason, all of Keldorn's added NPCs shared such illustrious monickers as "KELDORN ROMANCE FOR LG/NG/CG/LN/N", and for his quest, Keldorn refuses to guide you to the plot location for no discernible reason (it's actually time of day dependent, but there's no clue whatsoever as to that), and just like Nalia, he has a duplicate dialogue at the tree o' life.
Overall: A - Maybe I'm a sucker for the chaste and classy interactions, but this was still a better love story than Anomen. Well executed, in character, sensitive to the issue, and the creepy parts are pretty much all non-mandatory, making him almost as complex and nuanced as the Imoen Romance in ToB, and the quest is pretty neat to boot. Ultimately the romance will not conclude in SoA as far as I can see, but will end in the Friend Zone, with Anomen periodically checking in to remind you that he's totally up for giving you a back rub. I wish he was my friend, I never get backrubs. Or have any friends.
Colours of Infinity - I Shall Never Forget
The less trippy of the two.
Plot: Help a man come to terms with the death of his wife. Shenanigans ensue. Several new areas are included, several underused areas from vanilla are utilised, and the actual story is meaty and involved, which is nice, and ended with a satisfying boss encounter. Because of the way the story played out, I rather think there may be some replay value by seeing if things work out differently after spellhold.
Loot: Asides from some new purchasables, all of which are neat and balanced (even the little birdy), and some minor quest rewards a few of which I touched on at the bottom of page 1, the quest (which is divided over multiple days) drops around 15,000 gold in your lap by the time you complete it, and there are four particularly notable rewards - a Wisdom Tome, a unique innate ability, a "seed" ability which appears to be bugged, and an Ioun Stone of Wish Rest, or more specifically, 25% chance of the user being wish rested (which restores the item as well).
Wisdom Tome - A okay with me, honestly I'd be a lot happier with tomes being loot than items in a lot of these cases. +1 wisdom for you or a party cleric isn't going to break anything - at best with a full saga CHARNAME it makes it possible hit 25 wisdom instead of 24 wisdom, otherwise it's a modest +1 spell or slightly better wish chance for everyone else.
Unique Innate - Seriously love this type of thing. There are two variants, both replicating low level defensive spells. While my C/M was perfectly capable of casting both anyway, nothing says "this adventure is a memorable experience for CHARNAME" like a fundamental, permanent reminder infused with their very being, and even your most mundane dwarven hammerer isn't going to unbalance the game by dropping a 1/day defensive self-buff.
Seed Innate: A weak self-polymorph effect at the permanent cost of charisma, to top off the general badness of the thing, it's glitched so post-morph your character cannot move, but Ctrl+J fixes it.
Wish Rest Rock: Without savescumming the result, this is generally a last ditch effort to refresh without having to rest, and if you have time to save and reload to get the result you wanted, it's probably quicker, and easier, to just rest 99% of the time.
Enemies: A mage, some undead, some slimes, a few powerful, optional encounters you have to solo with CHARNAME, some weak undead you have to solo with CHARNAME, and another mage. I ran through after two or three chapter 2 quests (very likely since days pass between quest lines) and didn't have any frustrations, though the final boss fight was decently challenging.
Locks and Traps: From memory a few good items are in locked chests, but generally the mod is light on both.
Difficulty: The boss was a decent challenge with a level 11-13 party of two thieves, a C/M, Keldorn and Nalia, but there was nothing particularly overpowering throughout, even for the enforced solo area.
Overall: A+ - A solid and well written adventure with some interesting premises, whose only real flaw is the occasional spot where the wording is a little off and a few little niggles with standard Forgotten Realms lore that can easily be forgiven.
@Pantalion Love your reviews, highly entertaining. I had no idea there even was a Keldorn Romance mod. Are you planning to review Fishing for Trouble btw.
The bigger question is why other mods shouldn't be subject to similar criticism when they display evidence of immature decisionmaking and design.
They are, from what I've seen. Solaufein's caught plenty of flak for his ridiculous mega-katana or whatever it is he gets. Saerileth's just more infamous because of all the other things wrong with it.
If I could add something about Dace, one thing that annoyed me is that sometimes she tries too hard to be all down to earth. Not all characters need a tragic backstory or big plans, but when your dialogue drops to the level of "Boy, I sure do love bacon" and "Boy, I sure don't love spiders," there had damn well better be something funny or interesting in there, because otherwise I don't see why I'm reading it.
Also, a few less "Duckies" and "Damn Fools", please. After the first dozen times, it stops being endearing. That might just be me being a grouch, though.
Comments
And... If a mod introduces a 3 Int Mage... Who cares? It's four potions of genius and keep them away from Illithids and they're perfectly viable. A vanilla Bard with 3 in every stat? If their content and banters are good, keep 'em out of combat, give them some wands and keep them as a mascot, it's not like the game needs anyone but CHARNAME to beat it.
The theoretical ideal is something that expands the scope of the game without significantly altering game balance.
So let's say I create an evil thief. Great. Now let's say I make them terrible at everything. Not great. I've just disappointed everyone who was hoping for a solid NPC to plug that gap.
It is arguably worse for an NPC to be overpowered than underpowered. That doesn't mean making them underpowered is a good thing.
So a "power creep" rating has its sense as some players prefer to avoid to alter the balance and are warned (even if no one compel them to use the OP items).
But also to know the relative power of a new NPC is useful, as uber or under stats, bad allocated proficiencies and such things are relevant as some players prefer to avoid very weak or crippled NPCs.
Take for example Cernd. The guy is a wuss when you first get him, but it doesn't matter because there is enough equipment in the game to make him a viable companion, and you can eventually get him to a point that he becomes pretty powerful. Its ok if a character excels at something, such as Minsc or Keldorn at melee. What is not cool is when a mod introduces something that gives significantly more power than is otherwise available.
A +2 longsword is ok, fine, whatever. A +5 longsword with other abilities added is game breaking early game, because +5 weapons require either a lot of gold or a lot of dungeon delving. Just installing one using Wiedu is like cheating. If I wanted to give my party a +5 longsword, then I could just shadowkeeper it in.
Sure, I could drop the item...but then, what is the point of the mod? I might as well drop the character, too.
@Pantalion - you might find Amber's website an interesting read. It explains that the technical design was an attempt to mimic some aspects of Icewind Dale.
http://koti.kapsi.fi/vmarttil/amber/
2-This is the choice of much players, but the game lets you chose a not so powerful class, roll low stats, don't give any OP to him as the first choice, don't play, maybe in a not conscious way, to have him with the 90% of the killings. Some Bhalspawn powers apart he is not different from NPCs. Charname is generally going to be the best for player choice, not for how the game is designed.
3- Maybe use a new NPC when you get bored of the vanilla ones? Or an interesting plot and quest? Good banters or romance? Using a NPC class not available in the game? I play notEE, in my game no wild mage or sorc NPCs, so I often play with Tashia, because I like her as NPC, and usually never use her OP summon. Sometimes I also use Kelsey, change Imoen in sorc or use a Charname one, always Tashia for me is boring.
Evaluating any new item is part of the game, I don't see that big lost of immersion.
But if someone dislike a mod only for an item inside of it for me is fine.
I think it's something worth commenting on anyway.
I never wanted to change someone's subjective and instinctual feelings about what is and isn't fun, I told in many topics that I believe that each player has the right to play and have fun as he like to do, and here I wrote:
"But if someone dislike a mod only for an item inside of it for me is fine."
And there was no implicit judgment, I really think that someone can like or dislike anything in this game according to his feelings.
2 hour before you posted I was writing in another topic "And that is fantastic, because each human being is different, unique and marvelous in his being so." .
If you think that I want to use my logic to impose my personal point of view about what people should like, think or do you really have misunderstood me. But since my english is not fluent (at least writing, as I learned it mainly travelling and talking to people) I suppose that I have a responsibility in this. I apologize.
About the fact that it's perfectly appropriate for someone reviewing a mod to talk about "power creep." I wrote :
"Is a well known issue that some mods introduce OP items and NPCs, that alter the balance of the game (thing that can be good or bad depending on what the player like).
So a "power creep" rating has its sense as some players prefer to avoid to alter the balance and are warned".
There, even if my english is not perfect, is clear that I appreciate and don't criticize rewiews that talk about "power creep.".
If I wanted to cheat, that option is always available to me via shadowkeeper. It is better for mods to stay in balance so that those of us who prefer to not cheat don't need to just to use the mod.
The mod is broken up into 5 different categories, and I will talk about each of them in minor detail one at a time. I will not talk about every aspect of this mod, because it is so freaking huge. But, I will highlight those that I want to.
Keep in mind that every option presented by this mod is easily customizeable. You can choose to install everything or install only one thing. I use it mainly for convenience and to bring the game a little closer to what I envision the game should be. Be sure to install this mod in the correct order with other mods or you WILL experience bugs.
Cosmetic changes:
This section lets you do anything changing viconia's skin color to match her portait to fixing boo's squeak to be not so annoying. Sick of helmet animations blocking your character's hair color? Boom, no more helmet animations! Think Imoen's character portrays her as more of a mage than a theif? Boom, paperdoll and avatar changed to mage!
About the only thing I found to be buggy was the avatar morphing script, which changes your character's paperdoll and avatar in-game via the use of an AI command. I couldn't quite figure out whether or not this mod was incompatible with another mod that I had installed or not, but last time I used it, it crashed the game. I also had a problem with the commoners use drab colors aspect. Instead of changing just their clothing color, it changed their skin color too, to brown or grey. Again, unsure if it was clashing with another mod or not.
The best part of this section is the "force all dialogues to pause", which affects other mods too. Installing the mod just for this aspect is completely worth it--sometimes third party modders forget to command the game to pause during dialogue. This saves your party from certain death. I also really enjoy the icon improvements. Not really a fan of the disable portrait icons, but that is a matter of personal taste.
Content changes:
Absolutely number one thing to get: MORE INTERJECTIONS!! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING WITHOUT THIS MOD???!??!!?!?!?!? This part of the mod changes how the game checks for party banters. By default, the game checks to see if the person speaking can see the party member. If so, then it plays the banter. That is very disconcerting, especially, as we all know, at the main Yoshimo dialogue (no spoilers) when he's just on the other side of the door. This replaces it with a simple in-party check, so that all banters for your party members will play regardless of where they are on the map. Seriously, play with this mod.
I like the alter hp interjections, and the additional bags of holding. The gems and potions require identification can certainly add to immersion, although it does add to inconvenience. The bonus merchants have interesting, non-game-breaking stuff. I love the female edwina portrait, its awesome.
The only bug I encountered in this section was the use bg walking speeds, which caused a stutter.
Rule changes:
This section is for those of you who don't agree with the way Baldur's gate interpreted the DND rules. Unfortunately, not everything in this section is perfect. For example, I encountered some bugs with the various two-handed items. They kept reverting to the two-handed version instead of the one-handed version, without my say-so. The weapon styles for all is pretty useful if you want your cleric or druid to be more useful with that shield of hers.
I'm not really a fan of the PNP thieving skills and mage cast in heavy armor, because I can never remember the rules for the different armors. For me it's better to just not use it. But it's great for all those AD&D fans out there.
Read the whole description to get an idea of what is contained in this part of the mod. You can install to allow charname to be any race combined with any class. Any race can dual or multi, or no races can dual or multi. Want a gnome inquisitor? Boom, done. Want a half-elf assassin dualed to a mage? Boom, done.
This part of the mod is very subjective. Some people see it as cheating, and others see it as innocent tweaking to their vision of the game. I personally love the PNP spellcasting tables. They make the game more like a tabletop game to me. I also like True Grandmastery. Some people think its cheating, but I don't. Some people think it's over powered, but I don't. Other's like the multi-class grandmastery as well, although I haven't found it to be useful. Multiclass character's don't get enough proficiency points imho to make this change worth it.
My favorite part of this section is changing the proficiency system to be more like the original baldur's gate (and icewind dale) proficiency system. I never liked the aspect of AD&D that someone who knew how to use a longsword didn't know how to use a shortsword. This makes the game more how I envision it. Realize that if you install npc mods, you will probably have to shadowkeeper some of their pips back in.
Read the descriptions carefully, because the writers are clear about what parts can potentially cause bugs and what parts don't.
Convenience Tweaks and/or Cheats:
Let's face it: every part of this section is one giant freaking cheat...
But they're such awesome cheats!!
Instead of making everything overpowered (like what I have mentioned in this thread), this section is a time saver. Sure, it can break immersion that your character is carrying around 3000 arrows and 800 potions of healing...but it just saves so much freaking time!
You can have unlimited stacks of items, to save you trips to and from the store. That's what breaks immersion for me, is walking back and forth and back and forth just to sell all that stuff in the dungeon. Yes, that's how dungeon crawling is in real-life... ok, whatever, I love the unlimited stacking items. I just love it.
Keep in mind, though, that this section of the mod is the most buggy of all, specifically the romance cheats and how they interact with npc mods. If you are planning on using romance mods, do not install the nothing kills romance script. You will experience painful stuttering. Just don't do it.
You can make NPCs not fight or always happy, so you don't have to worry about reputation.
Again, remember this section is for cheaters... if you like overpowered weapons, you will love this whole section.
Joinable NPC tweaks:
There are no bugs that I know of in this section. I prefer to keep my npc stats consistent in my playthroughs. I also like to make Montaroon an assassin because that seems to line up more with his character in my opinion. The improved fate spirit summoning definitely is for those who hold immersion above all else.
That's my review of one of my most favorite mods. This mod has become practically vanilla for me. The best part of it is the complete 100% customization.
Thank you all you modders out there for making this near-perfect, wonderful mod!!!!!
I give it 5 stars and an A++!
They account for the fact that someone is going to use it, and feel happy to do so.
They give a (minor imho) inconvenience to who don't like the item but this way the mod is playable by everyone.
Given the fact that everyone is free to like or dislike a mod, an item or anything else and to find something more or less immersion breaking according to his personal feelings.
When reviewing something the things are different, the reviewer is free to have his opinions and criteria, but more objectivity is needed. Giving a personal opinion on what someone like or dislike is always welcome, to slash something in a review just for a personal and very subjective dislike is something different.*
Also what is gamebreaking and what is not is a subjective evaluation, like the one about how many new powerful items can be introduced in the game by mods. A reviewer that warns about an OP item make a good service to the readers, a reviewer that imposes his personal and very subjective dislikes over the readers can mislead them.*
And calling an OP item "Tashia's ridiculous summon" seems very judgmental to me. It seems disrespectful both to the modder, to someone who has devoted his effort and his time to give a new content to the player's community for free, and to the players who choose to use the item. Imo Tashia's summon is powerful, too powerful, and I don't use it, but is far less gamebreaking then RoV, SoB, SoTM or the spells PI, IA and TS, as they are implemented in the vanilla game. And this is just my humble opinion, I don't want to impose it on other people. But I don't like if other people impose their implicit negative judgment on modders and players, using words like ridicolous.
@mashedtaters, I appreciate your review of the gibberlings3 BG2Tweak pack, I may not agree with some of your points, very few, but those are just opinions. But I find it a very good review, both informative and objective. Thanks.
*I just gave my opinions on how a good review must be. Opinions not related to the ones of @Pantalion and @mashedtaters that, as I have already told I appreciate.
1: Shakespeare was not writing a love story. Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy, and a send-up of young love in general. The whole play is about children being retarded and the consequences of their vapid, shallow stupidity and lust, like the Saerileth mod.
2: Defenders of the mod seem always to claim that 14-15 years is historically accurate, which is just terrible, because this area of the Realms is most strongly linked to Western European medieval culture, where the average age of first marriage was generally in their mid to late twenties, with 95% occurring at the age of 19 or over and the "ideal" age having been considered 18-20+ since the Ancient Greeks. Younger marriages were typically by both genders to obtain or retain property, and even then the actual "marriage" frequently wouldn't occur until later.
But I digress, I'm up to the underdark, let's talk romance and colours.
Nalia Romance
Generally Nalia comes across as pretty self-absorbed, with little concern over the Bhaalspawn being a literal demigod and potentially non-human, two aspects with very real and interesting avenues of exploration that conspicuous in their absence. Regardless, she goes a little into her backstory, ties in the Flail of Ages, and generally manages to remain inoffensive and add a little welcome nuance to her character and plenty of variety for a CHARNAME to retort with. She does keeps referring to her (late) aunt being scandalised without correctly using the appropriate past tense, however, which I assume is just a silly oversight on part of the developer since it's canon that she decides to stand and fight for her ancestral home against golem invaders. *Cough.* Later on she becomes a bit more invested in CHARNAME's struggles, but generally it's still largely centred around the keep and Nalia herself, rather than any particular feeling of shared experience.
The mod does include one additional, I believe romance based, quest, which isn't particularly lengthy, but does help give some closure on the whole keep storyline, and the sheer number of talks is probably the highest I've seen - Well over 60 talks in SoA, not including flirt tracks or friendship banters, and she does at least account for your inhuman nature in one such dialogue, though as usual the fact that CHARNAME is super young for anything but a human or half-elf and the logistical concerns involved with a never-aging romantic partner are never addressed.
In terms of consistency, you do get the opportunity to talk based off your profession here and there, and being a healer can help during your quest when you heal a quest NPC, though to no real effect, and my immersion was seriously challenged when my CHARNAME didn't immediately turn around and say "Okay... So... You want me to raise him now?", but that's a problem for vanilla as well.
{Flirts} are in full force, by the way. Including PID ones. Sigh. But that said, the mod was, perhaps due to Nalia's "prim and proper nature" pleasantly low key in terms of creepiness. I think the worst she does is flash some ankle at some point, and the flirts can be disabled by PID, with few, if any, {actions} in her actual dialogues.
Power Creep: A+ - I've not even seen anything unique added, except motivation to keep Nalia over Imoen. It's funny what a bad build can do, I guarantee that if she started out as a fighter with 1 less Constitution and 1 more Strength, she would have been one of the most popular characters in SoA. Even her quest didn't include anything beyond some full plate and low level magical gear.
And then I Keepered her into the Grizzly Bear kit. For a laugh.
Melodrama: A - Despite adding some gritty darkness to Nalia's already pretty dark backstory, Nalia is actually surprisingly agreeable, with far more tolerance for "imperfect" answers than vanilla NPCs and a generally low level of angst throughout. She even calls herself out for being melodramatic over something that barely even registered on my battered Fade-o-meter.
Bugginess: B+ - Possibly as a result of this or any myriad other mods I have on test at the moment, the dialogue with Nalia's aunt crashed the game repeatedly, necessitating Ctrl+Y to deal with her. I supposed I could also have Charmed her and had her attack the keep golems as usual, but otherwise everything's been glitch, and typo, free as far as I've seen except for one point - the end of Suldanasellar involves two "confirmations", both the vanilla Nalia and romance Nalia confirmation, one after the other, and not necessarily in order.
Overall: A - It's surprising, but despite loathing Nalia in general, I found her romance to be one of the better done ones. Nothing world shattering, no high drama just a decently likeable NPC who "rounded the edges" off the original's more irritating traits while still remaining true to them.
Keldorn Romance
I generally skip Keldorn for being easy mode (and a jerk), but as far as I can tell his personality is in keeping with vanilla, with a decently written arc where he gets over his grief and actually ended up as kind of buddies, where every now and then he'd ask about CHARNAME's day when they were about to rest, with a wealth of options to choose from with different options for each (and he, as a Paladin, is well aware of your evil nature, which gets addressed). Keldorn also remembers anything you previously said in conversation with him (Mention liking wine and historical dramas? He might look out for such a thing and get it for you), and is generally a bro.
It also offers the option to "help Keldorn with his wounds". This is actually an interesting concept, though I'd have liked the conversation to be based on how injured he actually was rather than what appears to be a random selection when you rest. Generally he describes the wound, you whip out some bandages, you get a few options for treatment, and he says the wound will heal faster once treated (which is a lie, 1 HP as usual, alas). It's still got some seriously weird and creepy options you really shouldn't do to someone who is injured and bleeding, but it's optional and nowhere near as badly done as Fade. Generally I appreciated the roleplay angle of it for a Cleric/Mage to save spell slots (though options to include spells in treatment never came up) and would be totally down for a flavour mod where you treat your injured party mates and actually get a few HP restored at rest time (ideally sans {description} and creepy stuff entirely). Of course I could just be missing an appropriate fetish for stitching gaping wounds for its inclusion, in which case.... Ew?
Some other niggles are that some of the responses CHARNAME can come out with are weirdly manipulative and psycho (he's cut his hand? Better rub your finger in it and stick it in your mouth!), particularly considering the romance is generally supposed to be for "Good", presumably mostly mentally stable, CHARNAMEs... And Keldorn offered to "lay on hands" for some "healing light of Torm", which was offensive, because Inquisitors don't get lay on hands, cut it out Keldorn.
Power Creep: A - So far the only extra item I've seen that aren't plot junk is a +2 Halberd. No complaints here.
Melodrama: A- - Keldorn waxes emotional for a lot of early "love talks" over his failed marriage. It didn't ever fall into angst, fortunately.
Bugginess: B - For some reason, all of Keldorn's added NPCs shared such illustrious monickers as "KELDORN ROMANCE FOR LG/NG/CG/LN/N", and for his quest, Keldorn refuses to guide you to the plot location for no discernible reason (it's actually time of day dependent, but there's no clue whatsoever as to that), and just like Nalia, he has a duplicate dialogue at the tree o' life.
Overall: A - Maybe I'm a sucker for the chaste and classy interactions, but this was still a better love story than Anomen. Well executed, in character, sensitive to the issue, and the creepy parts are pretty much all non-mandatory, making him almost as complex and nuanced as the Imoen Romance in ToB, and the quest is pretty neat to boot. Ultimately the romance will not conclude in SoA as far as I can see, but will end in the Friend Zone, with Anomen periodically checking in to remind you that he's totally up for giving you a back rub. I wish he was my friend, I never get backrubs. Or have any friends.
Colours of Infinity - I Shall Never Forget
The less trippy of the two.
Loot: Asides from some new purchasables, all of which are neat and balanced (even the little birdy), and some minor quest rewards a few of which I touched on at the bottom of page 1, the quest (which is divided over multiple days) drops around 15,000 gold in your lap by the time you complete it, and there are four particularly notable rewards - a Wisdom Tome, a unique innate ability, a "seed" ability which appears to be bugged, and an Ioun Stone of Wish Rest, or more specifically, 25% chance of the user being wish rested (which restores the item as well).
Wisdom Tome - A okay with me, honestly I'd be a lot happier with tomes being loot than items in a lot of these cases. +1 wisdom for you or a party cleric isn't going to break anything - at best with a full saga CHARNAME it makes it possible hit 25 wisdom instead of 24 wisdom, otherwise it's a modest +1 spell or slightly better wish chance for everyone else.
Unique Innate - Seriously love this type of thing. There are two variants, both replicating low level defensive spells. While my C/M was perfectly capable of casting both anyway, nothing says "this adventure is a memorable experience for CHARNAME" like a fundamental, permanent reminder infused with their very being, and even your most mundane dwarven hammerer isn't going to unbalance the game by dropping a 1/day defensive self-buff.
Seed Innate: A weak self-polymorph effect at the permanent cost of charisma, to top off the general badness of the thing, it's glitched so post-morph your character cannot move, but Ctrl+J fixes it.
Wish Rest Rock: Without savescumming the result, this is generally a last ditch effort to refresh without having to rest, and if you have time to save and reload to get the result you wanted, it's probably quicker, and easier, to just rest 99% of the time.
Enemies: A mage, some undead, some slimes, a few powerful, optional encounters you have to solo with CHARNAME, some weak undead you have to solo with CHARNAME, and another mage. I ran through after two or three chapter 2 quests (very likely since days pass between quest lines) and didn't have any frustrations, though the final boss fight was decently challenging.
Locks and Traps: From memory a few good items are in locked chests, but generally the mod is light on both.
Difficulty: The boss was a decent challenge with a level 11-13 party of two thieves, a C/M, Keldorn and Nalia, but there was nothing particularly overpowering throughout, even for the enforced solo area.
Overall: A+ - A solid and well written adventure with some interesting premises, whose only real flaw is the occasional spot where the wording is a little off and a few little niggles with standard Forgotten Realms lore that can easily be forgiven.
If I could add something about Dace, one thing that annoyed me is that sometimes she tries too hard to be all down to earth. Not all characters need a tragic backstory or big plans, but when your dialogue drops to the level of "Boy, I sure do love bacon" and "Boy, I sure don't love spiders," there had damn well better be something funny or interesting in there, because otherwise I don't see why I'm reading it.
Also, a few less "Duckies" and "Damn Fools", please. After the first dozen times, it stops being endearing. That might just be me being a grouch, though.