Okay, since I've not actually got around to starting yet (and won't until I finish up a suitably doppelgangerish portrait), when I do my BG game will include:
Weasels. Verr'Sza. Sirene (crossmod action with the kitty?) Ishlilka BG1NPC Project Tome and Blood - Specialists, Innate Cantrip, and Arcane Crafting.
Sort of feeling being a martial class, since I've done so many Mages, Thieves, and Mage/Thieves lately. But I also like to be awesome, so probably Fighter/Enchanter/Thief because Tome and Blood Enchanters look overpowered as anything, unless someone knows a good triple threat type kit multiclass like Swashbuckler/Mage to try, which would probably be better than yet another god wizard.
@Pantalion - maybe a bit, heh. There will be a new version of Verr BG1EE in some time, but I can't tell you when exactly. Mirandel reported some suggestions and I know Swit wanted to implement something to make it work better with EET, but he's not around right now. I hope he'll be back soon, though. Anyway, it should work just fine. Perhaps one dialogue may look weird with BG1 NPC Project installed (burying Gorion is instroduced in both mods), but apart from that, it should be just fine.
Hopefully they have time to fix it before the upcoming patch release.
I've been waiting for them to fix the various hardcoded quirks of multiclassing, including the inability for non-fighters to get APR increases, for coming on half a decade at this point. My breath is very much unheld.
Also grabbed Tenya Thermidor, and figured I'd check out Scales of Balance's weapon style revisions since it looks like single weapon style dun got balanced. I guess I'll be checking out the "improved NPCs" one by one alongside four customs.
Okay, since I've not actually got around to starting yet (and won't until I finish up a suitably doppelgangerish portrait), when I do my BG game will include:
Weasels. Verr'Sza. Sirene (crossmod action with the kitty?) Ishlilka BG1NPC Project Tome and Blood - Specialists, Innate Cantrip, and Arcane Crafting.
Sort of feeling being a martial class, since I've done so many Mages, Thieves, and Mage/Thieves lately. But I also like to be awesome, so probably Fighter/Enchanter/Thief because Tome and Blood Enchanters look overpowered as anything, unless someone knows a good triple threat type kit multiclass like Swashbuckler/Mage to try, which would probably be better than yet another god wizard.
I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on arcane crafting. Keep i mind that it hasn't been updated in a long time.
Tome and Blood: Specialist Overhaul and Innate Cantrips:
Aka: Lolwut Enchanters: The Mod.
The Good: Tome and Blood expands and makes specialists more interesting, which is great, since otherwise they're completely boring and don't feel much different from one another beyond which school is barred. The automatic spell acquisition ensures at least theoretically that they'll actually have some of their chosen specialisation in their spell lists without depending on random drops or metagaming, and there is even less reason than ever to be a generalist mage, who are apparently also restricted from necromancy without any perks.
Also good is that, unlike the Warlock mod, cantrips tidy up after themselves and require no housecleaning, which was grand, because I spammed that sucker like nobody's business for obvious reasons.
The "Bad": Because the things in question are Mages, they obviously get even more powerful, so if you're concerned about power creep, rest assured that yes, this is mod is entirely made out of power creep. Every school except Necromancy gets an opposing school, that school being Necromancy, the lamest school as should be obvious because Gnomes don't get it.
The biggest winner here is the Enchanter, already a strong school marred only by losing out on handy evocation spells. Now, not only does the Enchanter lose the same thing as every other school, namely Necromancy, and not only is it immune to charm and sleep (a massive boon to soloing if nothing else), but it gives enemies near them a -2 saving throw penalty!
Yes, Xan just got a little less doomed. Any class that cares about saving throws (aka: everyone, except maybe Fighters, but especially other mages) wants an Enchanter in their party, while the Enchanter themselves is just about as good as other mage specialists are in their schools, while still throwing around -7 save penalty sleep, -4 penalty Emotion, and -8 penalty Chaos before Greater Malaison, Doom and Chant kick in. With the aforementioned three, epic level fighters need to roll a 21 to save, and if multiple Enchanters stack then bands of six enchanters and their roving "-12 to all saves" are doubtless rampaging across the Sword Coast with impunity.
Anyway, onto the second part of the mod: Innate cantrips.
Generally I like the idea of cantrips, but there's definitely two tiers of utility with them. "Weak", +3 AC for 3 rounds, or 1D5 magic damage, or tiny penalties to Hit/AC and maybe slowed/blinded for a few rounds, or summon infinite bunnies, and "Awesome", Ignore one physical attack (aka: Immune to next inevitable backstab without stoneskins), save or be held for 2 rounds - be entangled for 1 round anyway (by far the best of them), and Command, except the target gets a save and wakes up after the first hit - probably the weakest of the three, but still great for all the reasons Command is.
Immersion/Bugginess: Some minor bugs at worst. Drowse has a weird double effect where the victim sometimes falls over at the end of the six seconds (generally after being woken up early), and sometimes seems to effect the victim even if they make their save, but overall nothing game breaking or particularly inconvenient. There is a bit of weirdness with Necromancy being "evil" though, since Necromancy school covers all restorative magic, and there are quite a few non-evil undead in the lore.
Overall: B+ - A nice change and refreshing reason to play a specialist (rather than any other kit for the free spell slot with no limits), with the caveat that the changes obviously make the already best class in the game even better, especially enchanters who become pretty much the strongest arcane spellcasters in the game, including Sorcerers.
Random idle thought: Honestly, considering that each specialist gets all speciality spells in their spellbook automagically, perhaps the specialist could have a version unique to them?
Enchanters, for example, could give a no save -1 save penalty for 1 turn (-2 for single target), turning sleep into a mini-malaison they'll want to keep using at higher levels, even against undead. Evokers could add an extra +1 damage to their magic missiles, or get an extra 1D6 on their fireballs. Transmuters could get PnP Color Spray. Illusionists could get a few more mirror images (Roll 3D3 instead of 2D4), or maybe double the Reflected Images to make it actually worthwhile. This would give a tangible bonus to the class for specialising, without giving them permanent abilities that make them inherently better at other schools' spells than those specialists.
Will be going over item creation once I've filled out my spellbook a bit and/or picked up some real mages. My F/E/T is at cap and still lacking a lot of spells. I'll be trying my hardest to break it either way, of course.
Weasels!
While much of this mod is really quite reasonable, even the druid/shaman specific personal target super haste (giving +1.5 APR), are honestly pretty tame by comparison - especially since they buff druids and shamans, which aren't generally known for their melee prowess, Summon Weasel summons three of the titular rodent on average, and their 90% physical resist, which turns their "6" HP into "60" HP, means you're summoning 120-400 HP's worth of tank for a single level 1 spell with a cast time of 2.
If it were 50% resistance and you were summoning 24-80 HP instead, that would probably be a lot more reasonable, and mean that the spell wasn't largely superior to pretty much every other summon spell in the game short of Mordenkainen's Sword.
Bugs: One oddity I did notice was that the weasel summon scrolls were both banned to Enchanters, which didn't make sense to me, since Conjuration isn't Enchantment's opposed school, but the scroll didn't actually impede scribing the scroll anyway, so yeah.
Overall: B - Cute mod, with cute theme summons, just a tad overpowered, which is a strange thing to be saying about weasels.
Tome and Blood: Specialist Overhaul and Innate Cantrips:
Aka: Lolwut Enchanters: The Mod.
Sorry to burst your bubble (like, actually sorry), but the mod has been updated and Enchanters do not, in fact, have a save penalty aura. That was created before I knew Specialists already imposed save penalties in their school, so I have recently changed the enchanted aura to give a +1 save bonus to allies.
Oh grand, that's far more reasonable than the -2 it says in the readme (still a super great pick for solo though). I did check the effects and saw the repeating self spell, but didn't realise that it was granting a different effect.
Any other major differences? Because a lot of the stuff you've described seems significantly different to what I read.
I kind of wish you used the other cantrips option, which I think is better balanced and enables enemy casters to spam cantrips against you. (I just fought Silke who used a dangerous pattern of 'thwack thwack Orb, thwack thwack Orb.')
Eh, okay, I'll restart and try the level 1 Cantrips then, shouldn't take long to get back to where I am, and it will let me try the Cleric/Mage. I sure will miss Sleep and Magic Missile though.
You say Necromancers are lame but this makes them the most capable casters in the game (able to cast any spell), and unique benefits like Skull Trap (a superior Fireball), Skeleton Warrior, Larloch's Minor Drain (modified to worm over multiple rounds, so it is basically Acid Arrow, except it is 1st level and heals the caster (!)), etc.
To be clear, I said that Necromancy is the lamest school because Necromancy spells are lame, I wasn't referring to the modded form or the specialist. There are no spells in the Necromancy school that are essential, so a mage without necromancy isn't losing a chunk of what makes them powerful as a class.
If anything, the unlimited paralysis touch and health gain seem to have a lot of power, especially for a multiclass Necromancer who has the THAC0 to pull it off, and the full access to all schools gives them a slight edge over the other mages, especially since generalists now have a worse spell selection than they do.
Don't start over if you don't want to! I was just talking. I personally much prefer the Level 1 Cantrips to the Innate Cantrips. (I wrote both components, so I guess I love the one child more than the other ) But admittedly they are a far more drastic mechanical change. Easier to use, but not for everyone.
You do get more level 2 slots, and you get them earlier, to compensate. And the 2nd-level Magic Missile is better than the vanilla version (it ultimately does 5d4 magic damage plus 5d4 fire damage, at 13th level).
Too late, already restarted and planning on doing so again already, as is my wont.
Anyways, yeah, having tried it, not really my cup of tea. Having 4 HP/minute regeneration, infinite magic or fire damage on tap (tempting for SoD's troll infestation I must admit), permanent 6 AC, Reflected Image, PfE, all of which could be switched around at will without resting just made me feel like even more of a cheat character than I usually do when playing a mage. Drowse seems a lot more reasonable though.
Methinks I'll be restarting without it (this time long enough to actually play the NPCs, of whom I only really dealt with Sirene in any meaningful fashion), and maybe metamagic, since I'll be in the installer anyway.
Various other random thoughts:
1: It's a shame I can't choose to only give bonus spells only to certain classes. Bards suck, and getting one, net, bonus spell for high charisma could help, while Mages and Sorcerers don't need it.
2: It would be neat to have Cantrip "scrolls" - usable items that add an innate to the character (Usability locked to Mage/Sorcerer/Bard/UAI). Perhaps NPCs might be scripted to use them (no aura clogging) to give them a (potentially randomised) cantrip during a fight that they could then use?
3: Would a "low power" Cantrip option be feasible? Rather than infinite use, expired cantrips are refreshed once per turn? I personally (disclaimer: I claim no particularly authority of opinion) would be far happier with them being more "once or twice per combat" than "every single round you've not got anything better to do".
Overall: B - Cute mod, with cute theme summons, just a tad overpowered, which is a strange thing to be saying about weasels.
@Pantalion - Thanks! Will think about what you have noticed as I'm planning to release a new version of the mod in near future. A funny thing that you did not mention the items and new, unique items were added to the game (no matter if that's BG1EE, BG2EE or IWDEE). Also, 1st level spells aren't the only ones, as there are always higher level spells - "summon astral weasel", for example. Anyway, thanks!
Overall: B - Cute mod, with cute theme summons, just a tad overpowered, which is a strange thing to be saying about weasels.
@Pantalion - Thanks! Will think about what you have noticed as I'm planning to release a new version of the mod in near future. A funny thing that you did not mention the items and new, unique items were added to the game (no matter if that's BG1EE, BG2EE or IWDEE). Also, 1st level spells aren't the only ones, as there are always higher level spells - "summon astral weasel", for example. Anyway, thanks!
Honestly I thought that Summon Astral Weasel was fine for its level, just weird that it was barred from Enchanters. I'll keep an eye for the items next run through, didn't encounter any on my F/M/T.
Scales of Balance question: Is there a reason why my F/M/T couldn't get shield style? And my cleric/mage couldn't get shield style or two weapon fighting styles with the weapon style (and only weapon style) overhaul?
Btw love this feedback, even when critical! Very useful.
Glad to hear it, I don't pretend to be tactful, but I do generally appreciate all the people who have the talent and will to create content (even {sweaty hugs}).
about level scaling: can you make it so that only specialists can get scaled spells in their school?
Saw this in the low magic mod, thought it went well with my above ponderance: "Specialists start with unique versions of their spells". Non-specialists and scrolls could get no/half save penalty, no scaling, limited duration. If specialists get, and start, with the original spells, that would work well, if rather reducing the impact of "low magic" spell access woes on them.
Low magic almost looks worth it on the strength of weakened wands alone, since vanilla wands of fire are so good they render any other tactic largely irrelevant normally. I may take a look, it should make me feel better about having an innate cantrip or two.
1: Never saw the bunny as a scroll with 1st level spell cantrips. I assumed it was just an innate. It's neat, but innate drowse or the entangle/hold one (which will be my next character's cantrip, I'm running basilisk slaying Transmuter). Then again, maybe I'm just jaded from running the Warlock and their infinite Animate Dead?
2: Then you have a bug. Casting Larloch's minor instantly refreshed the other cantrip currently memorised along with it, allowing them to be switched freely. You mentioned a Wondrous Recall effect, is it restoring one or two spells?
3: I glanced at that, but can only see that annoying me with Enchanters and the like, since I don't use Spell Revisions (Grognard that I am, I like my cure spells necromantic and my symbol spells conjurational).
I personally much prefer the Level 1 Cantrips to the Innate Cantrips.
Is this the one that allows you to cast Grease once every few rounds, an unlimited number of times per day?
I had that on my last IWD:EE run, and did like that cantrip system in general, but thought the Grease spell was a bit overpowered because so many battles in the first half of IWD become easier if whole groups of enemies are essentially stuck in place for a while and can be killed with missile weapons. I'd probably reduce the spell effect's duration, or give enemies a save bonus or something.
Also, the loud looping sound effect of that spell is annoying (Shouldn't "Grease" sound ...quiet and sticky/slipperly, rather than like a giant industrial grinder in action?), but I don't think that's the mod's fault...
Plot and Immersion: A First impressions count, and being able to start the very first part of the content by declaring that you're a mage and have knowledge based on being a mage was a pretty darn good one, and the cat boy was pretty chatty overall, piping up in a lot of places.
Conversationwise, there are some minor (grins and such), but not too invasive, and Verr'sza was refreshingly neither a stereotype nor over the top "evil", and when he did get into "I'm a big bad Rakshasa you should be scurred", there was always an option available to politely ignore him.
Content and Consistency: A- Asides from abilities included seemingly purely for consistency purposes (A-okay with me), and his portrait actually changing when he switched to human form, the only inconsistency I saw was that Verr'Sza was petrified with his gear, which is easily ignored.
Contentwise he comes complete with two mini-quests, both fairly short and sweet, and plenty of dialogues which, because I spend so long paused and typing these things, he ran through about five of before getting out of the Friendly Arms. Fair warning that the second quest can come super quickly in game terms if you're like me and spend hours paused at a time, but it has a seven day deadline in-game and is pretty easy to reach on any chapter of the game, and the fight was quite doable with ranged tactics (go without any range and you're probably gonna have a bad time).
There was a scene where Verr'sza talked about burial, resting the party, and then the corpse still being adjacent in the morning, but I think that's unavoidable engine shenanigans.
Generally he had a few interjections beyond just friendship talks, which was nice, and his force talk dialogues avoided *Sweaty hugs* in favour of some pretty solid in game Rakshasa lore, casual enquiries about him, and ask where the quest target was because you forgot, which is a nice touch. Also a decently sized list of flirts which thankfully waited until the relationship actually started, and generally far less creepier than I am accustomed to.
If I had any criticism, it would be that there were times that the answer didn't seem to actually matter when talking to him - minor paraphrased spoilers: "Give me your whetstone." "Fine./What's a whetstone/I don't have one." "If I were as prepared as you I'd not have survived my first mission." "... But I had one. And I'm a higher level than you. " - I also hope there's an "I'm a cleric, I don't use them." answer to that exchange I didn't see from being an M/T this time around.
"What are you going to do about this guy who killed your dad?" "I dunno lol./I'm going to go around making money and learning to kill./I'm sure I'll think of something./My name is Magus Silverhand, you killed my father, prepare to die." "But you're going to have to learn to kill first!" "I just said that!"
Power Creep: B+ Verr'Sza is a ranger, and not a cleric, so he's hardly pushing the envelope in terms of personal power. He gets a "human form" ability that sacrifices Dexterity for Charisma (giving him whopping 9 Charisma as a result), a spell to use his claws in combat (a weapon which is inherently worse than either scimitars or shortswords, both of which he is specialised with at first meeting), and despite having 19 Dex isn't proficient in any missile weapons (though he does get to create 5 +2 stunning "throwing daggers" as an innate at higher levels these are a summoned projectile like MMM and not affected by specialisation or transferrable).
Gearwise, Verr'Sza's quest nets some unrestricted +0 Chain with a minor Death save boost and minor Breath penalty, which doesn't restrict spellcasting or thief skills - basically an extra suit of slightly quirky Elven Chain, in case you ever felt like having two bards or an early Robe of the Archmagi jr for a suitable CHARNAME. It's still better to stop by and watch Drizzt get killed by five gnolls for the Drow's gear and scimitar anyway.
The second quest has two items, one a ring that grants Halberd *** to a Bard, which is... Okay? I guess Bard + Chelsey Crusher + Halberd Ring would be pretty neat, but unlike BG2 there's no UAI to take the ring and put it on someone competent, like an F/M/T. Third item is also bard related (for some reason), but not bard specific. It's a magic story book. Using it summons uncontrollable (a la "gate", but friendly) a cleric ("storyteller"), with either a minidragon (kind of badass 1 THAC0, -3 AC), mage (kind of a wuss, no spells, meh ranged "magic" attack), or squirrel posse (army of 2 HP rodents with daggers). The storyteller drops 99 gold when he dies, so aside from anything else, free money, but since you get no Exp when they kill stuff for you it's a mixed bag until you hit the Exp cap, at which point it's a bunch of free summons per day with neat buffs that can be used by anyone over 12 Int and Wis.
Overall, not too bad, though a significant boost if you're running a bard heavy party.
If he has any content in later chapters or in SoD, I couldn't say, because my reputation hit 19 and he had an unfortunate accident while trying to disappear with twenty thousand gold's worth of equipment without so much as a conversation tree. Here's hoping one day for an NPC with a repeating talk at 18 rep: "Look, I ain't hanging out with no dweeb." "So go [litter/punch a baby/jaywalk/pick a fight with a werebear]." "Oh, good idea!" *Your reputation has fallen by 1.*
Bugs: Being an ornery sort, I tried shooting the starting mage in the face before speaking to him, and he didn't turn hostile. Also shanking the second quest target stopped her from casting fire shield and made the fight a lot easier, which probably shouldn't happen. Another I saw was that transforming with the belt of gender change equipped (don't judge, it was for science) sets him to a male human form regardless, and that he occasionally paused to have a chat mid combat (or deciding to force talk CHARNAME, clearing his orders and getting me killed, harrumph). Apart from that, I think I saw a typo or two, such as on the ring description, certainly nothing gamebreaking.
Overall: A. While he probably wouldn't be in my party on a regular basis, and his name is annoying to spell, Verr'Sza is a well developed and interesting NPC with a lot of attention to detail, and well worth trying out, particularly if you're into evil cat demons, in several senses.
Sirene (BG:EE version)
Another of the ever popular tiefling NPCs, and just when I desperately need another thief for suppementing my skewed party lineup... of course this time it's a paladin (or, in this case a "Martyrdom may not be used on the caster.", because apparently my install was not the best).
As a Martyr, Sirene gets a self-harm spell that heals the target while hurting herself for the same amount (more or less), and specialises in two-handed swords, which seems to be a favourite among paladins.
Plot and Immersion: A- First encounter involved approximately zero opportunities to be a jerk, short of shutting down conversation entirely, and equally few opportunities to not ask about her appearance, a railroad I didn't much care for. I'm travelling with a cat faced guy, a half-orc, a drow, and half a dozen weasels at any particular moment. Unless they stop you from wearing a helmet (they don't) I don't care about your dinky little horns.
The mod also includes (flirtatious advances) in her force talk menu, which include her (blushing when you smile at her), walking around (holding hands), and declare that she will protect you with her life, while you obsessively clean the dust off her cloak, try (and fail) to remove her armour to massage her shoulders, and getting her to *blush* and say you're a wonderful person, which, 17 Charisma aside, all seems a little precipitate for the first hour of a working relationship, but at least it's self inflicted, and not at (sweaty hugs) level.
In terms of interjections, she pipes up a few times (including forcing the moral choice when dealing with Greywolf), but was notably silent when murdering Ajantis, presumably because he deserved it, and when murdering the entirety of the temple staff where she was raised, for reasons unknown. She did get some nice interactions with the vanilla NPCs and at the odd plot convenient moment, as well as forcing the issue on the side of good several times.
Content and Consistency: B Given the fuss she makes about being driven away for her appearance, you'd expect her to give your group a -2 reputation penalty on joining, and for some reason she has a magic sword only useable by tieflings which, given that she's an orphan raised in/by a temple seemed a little odd. Likewise, while she says that she was turned away at the mines due to her appearance nobody at Nashkel seems to care in the slightest, even if Sirene is the one doing to talking.
Personality wise, Sirene appears to be strangely diffident and insecure. Charisma is force of personality, and as a Paladin her charisma is by default in the top 2% of human possibility. There is no room for insecurity and uncertainty in the absolute zeal and self-assurance that is needed to not only be a paladin, but to be an illegal, non-human, paladin.
In terms of content, she offers no quests, just herself and her fiery, sort of demonic, greatsword.
Power Creep: B(A-) Paladins aren't exactly top tier material at the best of times, but Sirene comes with replete with middling stats (1 Str and 2 Int worse than Montaron), minor elemental resistances, and her magic sword removes what middling HP bonus she should have had with a -1 Con penalty, while giving her targets save-or minor THAC0 penalty for 2 rounds. I haven't found any extra items for her.
So why a B? The Martydom power from her kit: lose 4 AC and 50% physical damage resistance to grant that to someone else for 5 rounds +1/3 per level. On top of the universal powergamer appeal (sacrifice something worthless - a non-targeted characters AC and DR% - for something valuable - a tank's AC and DR%), the big question is whether it stacks or sets DR at this level. If it stacks, it's 7 rounds of 100% DR for Defenders even before the hardiness and other high level sources of DR in SoA and beyond. If it sets, it's a very powerful and useful ability to double your tank's HP while the martyr hangs back and takes it easy with throwables or healing or "just not being main tank".
Melodrama: B-
Being a tiefling is built in drama on a stick. Sirene routinely waxes wistful about: Having no father, wishing SHE had a dead brother like Rasaad, so at least she could have a brother (not kidding), children being mean, her tainted heritage, how hard it was to grow up in a temple blah blah blah, how bad it is to be wrongly harassed by the flaming fist... While it never quite gets to wrist cutting, {shuddering sighs} or full on woe is me, by the sixth talk along those lines I was well beyond "I GET it." territory.
Bugs: Two Sirenes showed up in my game outside the temple at Beregost, and as I mentioned above her class was briefly "Martyrdom may not be used on the caster", and she periodically interjected twice for the same thing. Nothing too major, and a quick reinstall fixed the wayward descriptors.
Overall: B+ Another two handed sword wielding paladin, another angsty tiefling with illegal traits. She's generally quite inoffensive, asides from murdering my Blackguard, and has plenty to say, none of inferring that she could personally kill the entire party despite being a single class thief paladin, which I appreciated.
Weasels "Items So Far" Update:
Cloak of the Musk: +1 Dexterity, Summons Weasels 1/day. Possibly quick ones. +1 Dex generally serves as ~5% to thief skills on demand, and for certain thresholds (such as Coran) +1 AC and ranged THAC0 which stacks with everything else as well. Not quite best in slot for BG, but very potent for a ranged specialist who can stack it with the gauntlets and other gear.
Mind Swift as Weasels: +2 Longsword, which suited my CHARNAME just dandy as a Magebuckler. While Varscona gets +1 Cold damage, the MSW gives +1 casting speed, which is generally as good as you'd expect instant magic missiles and sleep to be.
Not that I need to cast anything except the Earthen Grasp cantrip for most encounters.
Interesting so far, though I think there are a few more to find.
Tome and Blood Crafting and Weirdness:
Is there some reason why mages can wear helmets and full plate with enhanced specialists? Why does Dynaheir have contingency and chain contingency? That's pretty wacky at level 5.
Because of Enhanced Specialists, I actually saved Dynaheir for the first time in a hundred games or so, since every specialist meant instant access to every spell they had on record. Makes thematic sense to me, meeting new mages and trading with them. On the other hand, scrolls of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer are absurdly hax, and only disappointing in that I can't scribe them. Earthen Grasp cantrip is every bit as awesome as I expected. Two(?) round root with no save plus 1 round hold effect means most enemies never even make it to melee range, and frequently, since breath saves are generally worse, get wiped out in single rounds of focused fire. It also works on "friendly" but annoying targets like Elminster without turning them hostile, which is by far its best feature because I am so sick of that guy telling me where the bandit camp I destroyed last week is hidden.
The biggest downside on crafting for me was that there was no actual reference for what spell was necessary for which item, so I generally ignored the potion crafting schtick, and while I could have used scroll scribing to dominate with cloudkills etc on demand from Neera's infinite Reckless Dweomers, honestly it would have been pretty tedious, so scribing scrolls was more to guarantee spell access than anything else.
Idle thoughts: Recipe scrolls as loot would be neat, granting the player (rather than any particular character) access to recipes on pickup, while having their component spell(s) and costs on them, and perhaps crafting being restricted to non-wilderness locations for immersion purposes. While it wasn't a big issue with BG1 scribing Exp, I can see instant automatic access to infinite scrolls on the cheap being sort of a big deal, especially since they could sell those scrolls, steal them, scribe them, make more, sell them, steal them.... Perhaps lifting a page from 3e and having crafting take Exp might be good, though achieving that without lost level weirdness would probably be a challenge.
Thanks for your reviews! Know that they actually help. You may have seen that I updated Weasels! using your feedback - for example weasels have now lower physical resistances. I will come back here again when I'll be working on new version of Verr'Sza, and that will surely happen as I have a short list of what should be improved already Thanks and cheers!
Idle thoughts: Recipe scrolls as loot would be neat, granting the player (rather than any particular character) access to recipes on pickup, while having their component spell(s) and costs on them...
That's a great idea. But, this could go further, and actually be required by the Character, as well (i.e. without the recipe, the character cannot create the potion.) The character could even have to ' learn' it like a spell scroll (one per character but the Recipe could remain for reference by the player). Recipes could be purchased and gained as quest rewards, and so on. It might be an interesting optional component, anyway (either way, I'll add recipes for player reference).
and perhaps crafting being restricted to non-wilderness locations for immersion purposes.
That makes sense...
While it wasn't a big issue with BG1 scribing Exp, I can see instant automatic access to infinite scrolls on the cheap being sort of a big deal, especially since they could sell those scrolls, steal them, scribe them, make more, sell them, steal them.... Perhaps lifting a page from 3e and having crafting take Exp might be good, though achieving that without lost level weirdness would probably be a challenge.
Yup. That is planned for the future.
Another optional component involves material requirements. Wands might require expensive jewelry while scrolls require special parchment and potions 'creature parts'. Something like that to limit how many items can be created. All of this will be optional, though.
@Pantalion glad to see you're doing reviews again, this is one of the better threads on the forum
in case you'll be doing bg2 (evil, i guess) run, i released a new update to dorn expansion romance mod. if you're interested, i'd be glad to hear your critique of it.
I feel like scribing scrolls should maybe limited to like 1x/day. It should be a pretty intricate process after all, the equivalent of medieval monks exactingly reproducing illuminated manuscripts.
It would still be problematic; it would just take a bit more time to be problematic. That's why I'm thinking about more 'drastic' methods, such as xp drain, and/or material components.
I also think scribing scrolls would have a nice affinity with Might & Guile letting thieves cast from scrolls.
I completely agree!
Btw, I'm in the process of revising the whole system. It's a rather drastic revision that will incorporate rogues (et al.) Definitely use what we have if you want, but keep this in mind...
@subtledoctor Luckily with your SoB's weapon category collapse, Two handers and Bastard swords share proficieny. Bastard sword and Shield is my preferred kit for Sirene. She even gets a special Bastard sword in SoA.
Comments
Okay, since I've not actually got around to starting yet (and won't until I finish up a suitably doppelgangerish portrait), when I do my BG game will include:
Weasels.
Verr'Sza.
Sirene (crossmod action with the kitty?)
Ishlilka
BG1NPC Project
Tome and Blood - Specialists, Innate Cantrip, and Arcane Crafting.
Sort of feeling being a martial class, since I've done so many Mages, Thieves, and Mage/Thieves lately. But I also like to be awesome, so probably Fighter/Enchanter/Thief because Tome and Blood Enchanters look overpowered as anything, unless someone knows a good triple threat type kit multiclass like Swashbuckler/Mage to try, which would probably be better than yet another god wizard.
Anyway, it should work just fine. Perhaps one dialogue may look weird with BG1 NPC Project installed (burying Gorion is instroduced in both mods), but apart from that, it should be just fine.
Also grabbed Tenya Thermidor, and figured I'd check out Scales of Balance's weapon style revisions since it looks like single weapon style dun got balanced. I guess I'll be checking out the "improved NPCs" one by one alongside four customs.
The Good: Tome and Blood expands and makes specialists more interesting, which is great, since otherwise they're completely boring and don't feel much different from one another beyond which school is barred. The automatic spell acquisition ensures at least theoretically that they'll actually have some of their chosen specialisation in their spell lists without depending on random drops or metagaming, and there is even less reason than ever to be a generalist mage, who are apparently also restricted from necromancy without any perks.
Also good is that, unlike the Warlock mod, cantrips tidy up after themselves and require no housecleaning, which was grand, because I spammed that sucker like nobody's business for obvious reasons.
The "Bad": Because the things in question are Mages, they obviously get even more powerful, so if you're concerned about power creep, rest assured that yes, this is mod is entirely made out of power creep. Every school except Necromancy gets an opposing school, that school being Necromancy, the lamest school as should be obvious because Gnomes don't get it.
The biggest winner here is the Enchanter, already a strong school marred only by losing out on handy evocation spells. Now, not only does the Enchanter lose the same thing as every other school, namely Necromancy, and not only is it immune to charm and sleep (a massive boon to soloing if nothing else), but it gives enemies near them a -2 saving throw penalty!
Yes, Xan just got a little less doomed. Any class that cares about saving throws (aka: everyone, except maybe Fighters, but especially other mages) wants an Enchanter in their party, while the Enchanter themselves is just about as good as other mage specialists are in their schools, while still throwing around -7 save penalty sleep, -4 penalty Emotion, and -8 penalty Chaos before Greater Malaison, Doom and Chant kick in. With the aforementioned three, epic level fighters need to roll a 21 to save, and if multiple Enchanters stack then bands of six enchanters and their roving "-12 to all saves" are doubtless rampaging across the Sword Coast with impunity.
Anyway, onto the second part of the mod: Innate cantrips.
Generally I like the idea of cantrips, but there's definitely two tiers of utility with them. "Weak", +3 AC for 3 rounds, or 1D5 magic damage, or tiny penalties to Hit/AC and maybe slowed/blinded for a few rounds, or summon infinite bunnies, and "Awesome", Ignore one physical attack (aka: Immune to next inevitable backstab without stoneskins), save or be held for 2 rounds - be entangled for 1 round anyway (by far the best of them), and Command, except the target gets a save and wakes up after the first hit - probably the weakest of the three, but still great for all the reasons Command is.
Immersion/Bugginess: Some minor bugs at worst. Drowse has a weird double effect where the victim sometimes falls over at the end of the six seconds (generally after being woken up early), and sometimes seems to effect the victim even if they make their save, but overall nothing game breaking or particularly inconvenient. There is a bit of weirdness with Necromancy being "evil" though, since Necromancy school covers all restorative magic, and there are quite a few non-evil undead in the lore.
Overall: B+ - A nice change and refreshing reason to play a specialist (rather than any other kit for the free spell slot with no limits), with the caveat that the changes obviously make the already best class in the game even better, especially enchanters who become pretty much the strongest arcane spellcasters in the game, including Sorcerers.
Random idle thought: Honestly, considering that each specialist gets all speciality spells in their spellbook automagically, perhaps the specialist could have a version unique to them?
Evokers could add an extra +1 damage to their magic missiles, or get an extra 1D6 on their fireballs.
Transmuters could get PnP Color Spray.
Illusionists could get a few more mirror images (Roll 3D3 instead of 2D4), or maybe double the Reflected Images to make it actually worthwhile.
This would give a tangible bonus to the class for specialising, without giving them permanent abilities that make them inherently better at other schools' spells than those specialists.
Will be going over item creation once I've filled out my spellbook a bit and/or picked up some real mages. My F/E/T is at cap and still lacking a lot of spells. I'll be trying my hardest to break it either way, of course.
Weasels!
If it were 50% resistance and you were summoning 24-80 HP instead, that would probably be a lot more reasonable, and mean that the spell wasn't largely superior to pretty much every other summon spell in the game short of Mordenkainen's Sword.
Bugs: One oddity I did notice was that the weasel summon scrolls were both banned to Enchanters, which didn't make sense to me, since Conjuration isn't Enchantment's opposed school, but the scroll didn't actually impede scribing the scroll anyway, so yeah.
Overall: B - Cute mod, with cute theme summons, just a tad overpowered, which is a strange thing to be saying about weasels.
Any other major differences? Because a lot of the stuff you've described seems significantly different to what I read. Eh, okay, I'll restart and try the level 1 Cantrips then, shouldn't take long to get back to where I am, and it will let me try the Cleric/Mage. I sure will miss Sleep and Magic Missile though. To be clear, I said that Necromancy is the lamest school because Necromancy spells are lame, I wasn't referring to the modded form or the specialist. There are no spells in the Necromancy school that are essential, so a mage without necromancy isn't losing a chunk of what makes them powerful as a class.
If anything, the unlimited paralysis touch and health gain seem to have a lot of power, especially for a multiclass Necromancer who has the THAC0 to pull it off, and the full access to all schools gives them a slight edge over the other mages, especially since generalists now have a worse spell selection than they do.
Anyways, yeah, having tried it, not really my cup of tea. Having 4 HP/minute regeneration, infinite magic or fire damage on tap (tempting for SoD's troll infestation I must admit), permanent 6 AC, Reflected Image, PfE, all of which could be switched around at will without resting just made me feel like even more of a cheat character than I usually do when playing a mage. Drowse seems a lot more reasonable though.
Methinks I'll be restarting without it (this time long enough to actually play the NPCs, of whom I only really dealt with Sirene in any meaningful fashion), and maybe metamagic, since I'll be in the installer anyway.
Various other random thoughts:
1: It's a shame I can't choose to only give bonus spells only to certain classes. Bards suck, and getting one, net, bonus spell for high charisma could help, while Mages and Sorcerers don't need it.
2: It would be neat to have Cantrip "scrolls" - usable items that add an innate to the character (Usability locked to Mage/Sorcerer/Bard/UAI). Perhaps NPCs might be scripted to use them (no aura clogging) to give them a (potentially randomised) cantrip during a fight that they could then use?
3: Would a "low power" Cantrip option be feasible? Rather than infinite use, expired cantrips are refreshed once per turn? I personally (disclaimer: I claim no particularly authority of opinion) would be far happier with them being more "once or twice per combat" than "every single round you've not got anything better to do".
@Pantalion - Thanks! Will think about what you have noticed as I'm planning to release a new version of the mod in near future. A funny thing that you did not mention the items and new, unique items were added to the game (no matter if that's BG1EE, BG2EE or IWDEE). Also, 1st level spells aren't the only ones, as there are always higher level spells - "summon astral weasel", for example. Anyway, thanks!
Scales of Balance question: Is there a reason why my F/M/T couldn't get shield style? And my cleric/mage couldn't get shield style or two weapon fighting styles with the weapon style (and only weapon style) overhaul?
Low magic almost looks worth it on the strength of weakened wands alone, since vanilla wands of fire are so good they render any other tactic largely irrelevant normally. I may take a look, it should make me feel better about having an innate cantrip or two.
2: Then you have a bug. Casting Larloch's minor instantly refreshed the other cantrip currently memorised along with it, allowing them to be switched freely. You mentioned a Wondrous Recall effect, is it restoring one or two spells?
3: I glanced at that, but can only see that annoying me with Enchanters and the like, since I don't use Spell Revisions (Grognard that I am, I like my cure spells necromantic and my symbol spells conjurational).
RIP Low Magic.
Checking "Summon Rabbit", the duration appears to be slightly over an hour, given it takes two Ctrl+Ts for one to unsummon.
I had that on my last IWD:EE run, and did like that cantrip system in general, but thought the Grease spell was a bit overpowered because so many battles in the first half of IWD become easier if whole groups of enemies are essentially stuck in place for a while and can be killed with missile weapons. I'd probably reduce the spell effect's duration, or give enemies a save bonus or something.
Also, the loud looping sound effect of that spell is annoying (Shouldn't "Grease" sound ...quiet and sticky/slipperly, rather than like a giant industrial grinder in action?), but I don't think that's the mod's fault...
Plot and Immersion: A
First impressions count, and being able to start the very first part of the content by declaring that you're a mage and have knowledge based on being a mage was a pretty darn good one, and the cat boy was pretty chatty overall, piping up in a lot of places.
Conversationwise, there are some minor (grins and such), but not too invasive, and Verr'sza was refreshingly neither a stereotype nor over the top "evil", and when he did get into "I'm a big bad Rakshasa you should be scurred", there was always an option available to politely ignore him.
Content and Consistency: A-
Asides from abilities included seemingly purely for consistency purposes (A-okay with me), and his portrait actually changing when he switched to human form, the only inconsistency I saw was that Verr'Sza was petrified with his gear, which is easily ignored.
Contentwise he comes complete with two mini-quests, both fairly short and sweet, and plenty of dialogues which, because I spend so long paused and typing these things, he ran through about five of before getting out of the Friendly Arms. Fair warning that the second quest can come super quickly in game terms if you're like me and spend hours paused at a time, but it has a seven day deadline in-game and is pretty easy to reach on any chapter of the game, and the fight was quite doable with ranged tactics (go without any range and you're probably gonna have a bad time).
There was a scene where Verr'sza talked about burial, resting the party, and then the corpse still being adjacent in the morning, but I think that's unavoidable engine shenanigans.
Generally he had a few interjections beyond just friendship talks, which was nice, and his force talk dialogues avoided *Sweaty hugs* in favour of some pretty solid in game Rakshasa lore, casual enquiries about him, and ask where the quest target was because you forgot, which is a nice touch. Also a decently sized list of flirts which thankfully waited until the relationship actually started, and generally far less creepier than I am accustomed to.
If I had any criticism, it would be that there were times that the answer didn't seem to actually matter when talking to him - minor paraphrased spoilers:
"Give me your whetstone." "Fine./What's a whetstone/I don't have one."
"If I were as prepared as you I'd not have survived my first mission."
"... But I had one. And I'm a higher level than you.
- I also hope there's an "I'm a cleric, I don't use them." answer to that exchange I didn't see from being an M/T this time around.
"What are you going to do about this guy who killed your dad?"
"I dunno lol./I'm going to go around making money and learning to kill./I'm sure I'll think of something./My name is Magus Silverhand, you killed my father, prepare to die."
"But you're going to have to learn to kill first!"
"I just said that!"
Power Creep: B+
Verr'Sza is a ranger, and not a cleric, so he's hardly pushing the envelope in terms of personal power. He gets a "human form" ability that sacrifices Dexterity for Charisma (giving him whopping 9 Charisma as a result), a spell to use his claws in combat (a weapon which is inherently worse than either scimitars or shortswords, both of which he is specialised with at first meeting), and despite having 19 Dex isn't proficient in any missile weapons (though he does get to create 5 +2 stunning "throwing daggers" as an innate at higher levels these are a summoned projectile like MMM and not affected by specialisation or transferrable).
Gearwise, Verr'Sza's quest nets some unrestricted +0 Chain with a minor Death save boost and minor Breath penalty, which doesn't restrict spellcasting or thief skills - basically an extra suit of slightly quirky Elven Chain, in case you ever felt like having two bards or an early Robe of the Archmagi jr for a suitable CHARNAME. It's still better to stop by and watch Drizzt get killed by five gnolls for the Drow's gear and scimitar anyway.
The second quest has two items, one a ring that grants Halberd *** to a Bard, which is... Okay? I guess Bard + Chelsey Crusher + Halberd Ring would be pretty neat, but unlike BG2 there's no UAI to take the ring and put it on someone competent, like an F/M/T.
Third item is also bard related (for some reason), but not bard specific. It's a magic story book. Using it summons uncontrollable (a la "gate", but friendly) a cleric ("storyteller"), with either a minidragon (kind of badass 1 THAC0, -3 AC), mage (kind of a wuss, no spells, meh ranged "magic" attack), or squirrel posse (army of 2 HP rodents with daggers). The storyteller drops 99 gold when he dies, so aside from anything else, free money, but since you get no Exp when they kill stuff for you it's a mixed bag until you hit the Exp cap, at which point it's a bunch of free summons per day with neat buffs that can be used by anyone over 12 Int and Wis.
Overall, not too bad, though a significant boost if you're running a bard heavy party.
If he has any content in later chapters or in SoD, I couldn't say, because my reputation hit 19 and he had an unfortunate accident while trying to disappear with twenty thousand gold's worth of equipment without so much as a conversation tree. Here's hoping one day for an NPC with a repeating talk at 18 rep:
"Look, I ain't hanging out with no dweeb." "So go [litter/punch a baby/jaywalk/pick a fight with a werebear]." "Oh, good idea!" *Your reputation has fallen by 1.*
Bugs:
Being an ornery sort, I tried shooting the starting mage in the face before speaking to him, and he didn't turn hostile. Also shanking the second quest target stopped her from casting fire shield and made the fight a lot easier, which probably shouldn't happen. Another I saw was that transforming with the belt of gender change equipped (don't judge, it was for science) sets him to a male human form regardless, and that he occasionally paused to have a chat mid combat (or deciding to force talk CHARNAME, clearing his orders and getting me killed, harrumph).
Apart from that, I think I saw a typo or two, such as on the ring description, certainly nothing gamebreaking.
Overall: A.
While he probably wouldn't be in my party on a regular basis, and his name is annoying to spell, Verr'Sza is a well developed and interesting NPC with a lot of attention to detail, and well worth trying out, particularly if you're into evil cat demons, in several senses.
Sirene (BG:EE version)
As a Martyr, Sirene gets a self-harm spell that heals the target while hurting herself for the same amount (more or less), and specialises in two-handed swords, which seems to be a favourite among paladins.
Plot and Immersion: A-
First encounter involved approximately zero opportunities to be a jerk, short of shutting down conversation entirely, and equally few opportunities to not ask about her appearance, a railroad I didn't much care for. I'm travelling with a cat faced guy, a half-orc, a drow, and half a dozen weasels at any particular moment. Unless they stop you from wearing a helmet (they don't) I don't care about your dinky little horns.
The mod also includes (flirtatious advances) in her force talk menu, which include her (blushing when you smile at her), walking around (holding hands), and declare that she will protect you with her life, while you obsessively clean the dust off her cloak, try (and fail) to remove her armour to massage her shoulders, and getting her to *blush* and say you're a wonderful person, which, 17 Charisma aside, all seems a little precipitate for the first hour of a working relationship, but at least it's self inflicted, and not at (sweaty hugs) level.
In terms of interjections, she pipes up a few times (including forcing the moral choice when dealing with Greywolf), but was notably silent when murdering Ajantis, presumably because he deserved it, and when murdering the entirety of the temple staff where she was raised, for reasons unknown. She did get some nice interactions with the vanilla NPCs and at the odd plot convenient moment, as well as forcing the issue on the side of good several times.
Content and Consistency: B
Given the fuss she makes about being driven away for her appearance, you'd expect her to give your group a -2 reputation penalty on joining, and for some reason she has a magic sword only useable by tieflings which, given that she's an orphan raised in/by a temple seemed a little odd. Likewise, while she says that she was turned away at the mines due to her appearance nobody at Nashkel seems to care in the slightest, even if Sirene is the one doing to talking.
Personality wise, Sirene appears to be strangely diffident and insecure. Charisma is force of personality, and as a Paladin her charisma is by default in the top 2% of human possibility. There is no room for insecurity and uncertainty in the absolute zeal and self-assurance that is needed to not only be a paladin, but to be an illegal, non-human, paladin.
In terms of content, she offers no quests, just herself and her fiery, sort of demonic, greatsword.
Power Creep: B(A-)
Paladins aren't exactly top tier material at the best of times, but Sirene comes with replete with middling stats (1 Str and 2 Int worse than Montaron), minor elemental resistances, and her magic sword removes what middling HP bonus she should have had with a -1 Con penalty, while giving her targets save-or minor THAC0 penalty for 2 rounds. I haven't found any extra items for her.
So why a B?
The Martydom power from her kit: lose 4 AC and 50% physical damage resistance to grant that to someone else for 5 rounds +1/3 per level.
On top of the universal powergamer appeal (sacrifice something worthless - a non-targeted characters AC and DR% - for something valuable - a tank's AC and DR%), the big question is whether it stacks or sets DR at this level. If it stacks, it's 7 rounds of 100% DR for Defenders even before the hardiness and other high level sources of DR in SoA and beyond. If it sets, it's a very powerful and useful ability to double your tank's HP while the martyr hangs back and takes it easy with throwables or healing or "just not being main tank".
Melodrama: B-
Being a tiefling is built in drama on a stick. Sirene routinely waxes wistful about: Having no father, wishing SHE had a dead brother like Rasaad, so at least she could have a brother (not kidding), children being mean, her tainted heritage, how hard it was to grow up in a temple blah blah blah, how bad it is to be wrongly harassed by the flaming fist... While it never quite gets to wrist cutting, {shuddering sighs} or full on woe is me, by the sixth talk along those lines I was well beyond "I GET it." territory.
Bugs: Two Sirenes showed up in my game outside the temple at Beregost, and as I mentioned above her class was briefly "Martyrdom may not be used on the caster", and she periodically interjected twice for the same thing. Nothing too major, and a quick reinstall fixed the wayward descriptors.
Overall: B+
Another two handed sword wielding paladin, another angsty tiefling with illegal traits. She's generally quite inoffensive, asides from murdering my Blackguard, and has plenty to say, none of inferring that she could personally kill the entire party despite being a single class
thiefpaladin, which I appreciated.Weasels "Items So Far" Update:
+1 Dex generally serves as ~5% to thief skills on demand, and for certain thresholds (such as Coran) +1 AC and ranged THAC0 which stacks with everything else as well. Not quite best in slot for BG, but very potent for a ranged specialist who can stack it with the gauntlets and other gear.
Mind Swift as Weasels: +2 Longsword, which suited my CHARNAME just dandy as a Magebuckler. While Varscona gets +1 Cold damage, the MSW gives +1 casting speed, which is generally as good as you'd expect instant magic missiles and sleep to be.
Not that I need to cast anything except the Earthen Grasp cantrip for most encounters.
Interesting so far, though I think there are a few more to find.
Tome and Blood Crafting and Weirdness:
Why does Dynaheir have contingency and chain contingency? That's pretty wacky at level 5.
Because of Enhanced Specialists, I actually saved Dynaheir for the first time in a hundred games or so, since every specialist meant instant access to every spell they had on record. Makes thematic sense to me, meeting new mages and trading with them.
On the other hand, scrolls of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer are absurdly hax, and only disappointing in that I can't scribe them.
Earthen Grasp cantrip is every bit as awesome as I expected. Two(?) round root with no save plus 1 round hold effect means most enemies never even make it to melee range, and frequently, since breath saves are generally worse, get wiped out in single rounds of focused fire. It also works on "friendly" but annoying targets like Elminster without turning them hostile, which is by far its best feature because I am so sick of that guy telling me where the bandit camp I destroyed last week is hidden.
The biggest downside on crafting for me was that there was no actual reference for what spell was necessary for which item, so I generally ignored the potion crafting schtick, and while I could have used scroll scribing to dominate with cloudkills etc on demand from Neera's infinite Reckless Dweomers, honestly it would have been pretty tedious, so scribing scrolls was more to guarantee spell access than anything else.
Idle thoughts: Recipe scrolls as loot would be neat, granting the player (rather than any particular character) access to recipes on pickup, while having their component spell(s) and costs on them, and perhaps crafting being restricted to non-wilderness locations for immersion purposes.
While it wasn't a big issue with BG1 scribing Exp, I can see instant automatic access to infinite scrolls on the cheap being sort of a big deal, especially since they could sell those scrolls, steal them, scribe them, make more, sell them, steal them.... Perhaps lifting a page from 3e and having crafting take Exp might be good, though achieving that without lost level weirdness would probably be a challenge.
Thanks and cheers!
That's a great idea. But, this could go further, and actually be required by the Character, as well (i.e. without the recipe, the character cannot create the potion.) The character could even have to ' learn' it like a spell scroll (one per character but the Recipe could remain for reference by the player). Recipes could be purchased and gained as quest rewards, and so on. It might be an interesting optional component, anyway (either way, I'll add recipes for player reference).
That makes sense...
Yup. That is planned for the future.
Another optional component involves material requirements. Wands might require expensive jewelry while scrolls require special parchment and potions 'creature parts'. Something like that to limit how many items can be created. All of this will be optional, though.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback!
in case you'll be doing bg2 (evil, i guess) run, i released a new update to dorn expansion romance mod. if you're interested, i'd be glad to hear your critique of it.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47294/mod-updated-dorn-romance-expansion-v3-0-for-bgii-ee/p1
anyway, i'll let you get back to your regular mod-testing schedule!
It would still be problematic; it would just take a bit more time to be problematic. That's why I'm thinking about more 'drastic' methods, such as xp drain, and/or material components.
I completely agree!
Btw, I'm in the process of revising the whole system. It's a rather drastic revision that will incorporate rogues (et al.) Definitely use what we have if you want, but keep this in mind...
Sorry, will stop derailing this thread now.