@Bubbles, also I like Minsc characterization but I think that even if he is not the PWGamer dream can perform his Butt-kicking for goodness quite well in early and mid game and is useful 'till the end of ToB. And if he misses something in comparison to Korgan or mr ToB...... Boo will take care of the details!
What's wrong with Minsc? He can buff himself with Armor of Faith, Hardiness and go in Berserker Mode. When he gets a beating, he can bail himself out via Sanctuary and heal up in safety. Give him the Ravager later on, and he remains a reliable butt-kicking machine till the very end.
@jinxed75 He makes too much sound everytime I clicked him ^^
I have exactly the same problem with Minsc. While I used to love his oafishness back in the days I simply can't stand the loudness of his character anymore. Maybe its just growing up. I still remember him fondly and will release him from his cage but that's the end of my interaction with Minsc for the rest of the game nowadays.
I remember first time (3rd or 4th playthrough years ago)I didn't pick her up in Spellhold because I made a custom party for the first time, it made me feel terribly guilty and I had to reload and pick her up lol. The game is really good at guilt tripping you with Imoen, same with Nalia pleading for help, I usually cave in and do her quest first hehehe. Its a testament to the level of characterization and quality of voice acting in this game. And the fact that being a Isometric game rather than 3D it leaves a lot for the imagination. I still can't think of any examples of voice acting in games that contributes so much or indeed even remember character voices from other games as vividly as BG series. Took me a long time before I can successfully resist her charm. I mean she gets out fine on her own and you get to save her soul so I guess its not so bad in the end. If they made her lose an finger or something then there is no way I won't pick her up from Spellhold lol.
Try Aerie ^^. I can resist not picking her, but once i pick her i can't drop her X_X. Reason? The voice sounded so poor thing to be dropped X_X like a poor little girl (mind you, the voice belonged to a pretty elderly lady even during the stage of recording !!).
I too have similar concerns. When I am soloing I just can't leave them in the cages, so I avoid to go near them until all the prison is cleared, only at that moment I let their dialogue trigger, we go out together trough the now safe area and I dismiss them in the Promenade. Leaving them caged make me feel too guilty.
@gorgonzola Yeah the original plot has a way of making players like us feel guilty or terrible. The voice actors/actresses can really grind into us some of this guilt too. Hope they could continue this approach and maybe make different stories not just always on the Bhaalspawn but maybe something else (so much ideas out there I bet the members here will happily contribute them too).
Viconia is the best cleric, no doubt. Imoen is just for the storiline, Jan is much stronger. Jahiera for the romance, but she is really weak. Yoshimo is a fail, he dies faster than mages. I join him on my party before leaving, his last quest is wortly. Figher paladin as main is a must, developers said it too from the first release, they get the best weapons, expecially the 2x sword, leave alone the paladine sword, one of the best items you can get. Kivan was a must, he by himself would make most of the kills. Korgan, is good but is a troublemakers. Arie is strong but dies too fast, still i belive Jan is the best pick but lacks of storyline. Anomen is not bad but still a troblemaker, he cares nothing about alignement and he would pick on you main too, also if the both have the same alignment, i use him for the quest he has than i kick him. Nalie is too weak as a thief, she fails too much at it. Some from bg1 were not exported in bg2 and they were quite strong. The news with the EE, they are strong but bugged, to cheat is a must or you wont get moving at all. The lack of fixings doest give to their new sequel a good impression. Also the real sequel was nwn where you would find imoen in there. Not a fan of the so called 3d games so i drpped it. Anyway main as a figher, viconia as cleric, jan as thief and mage, you can make it just by them.
Viconia is the best cleric, the only single class, high wisdom and MR, but each other cleric have something other to balance this, Anomen will be almost as good being a low level dual but with GM and much better APR, even if in the end they will use the same cleric's THACO table, Aerie being multi levels slower, but can mix arcane and divine magic. Best claric, no doubt, but not more powerful character.
Jaheira in the hands of some players can be effective until the end, good stats as there is plenty of STR enhancers, fight as well as each other multi fighter (fighter HLA), druid's magic (summons, IP, Ironskin).
Imoen and Nalia are as good as a pure class mage as they dualed very early, with some thief advantage, weapons and basic trap and lock handling. Imoen technically is better, but there are some level problems, that can be solved (rescue her early, use the same memorizing trick that is often used to speed up charname dualing in mage). Nalia is a little too weak in her basic rogue utility, but as the game can be played without thief and potions are there is not a problem. See them as strong mages, not as weak thieves.
I agree on the power of Jan, a gnome M/T is strong, but as a multi will reach the arcane power of the "weak" Nalia much later.
Those are evaluations that really depend on party composition and player's style and preference, I don't say that your evaluations are wrong, I only give different ones to show how the relative power of NPCs is player dependent.
The original BG2 actually is pretty well conceived and balanced. The way the balance it is deliberately giving strange weapon specialization to certain NPCs making many players feel frustrated but all is done in the name of game balance. If only Bioware isn't so hardpress to release the title, it would have been even more fabulous a game. From UB mod, one can see how far it was actually intended but they ran out of funding and time. UB barely managed to reconstruct a tiny portion of the original intended plot.
When I first played the game I was also among those who say "why the hell did those NPC specialized in such crap weapons" etc !! Now I can see it in a different light and very often deliberately try to find weapons most suited for them if I wanted them in the party till end of ToB.
I used to underestimate Jaheira and Anomen and Aerie, loved Mazzy Korgan Jan Keldon (but of course personality wise I still don't like Jaheira Anomen, these 2 always tempted me to petrify them and place them in the middle of CC to help the decor ^^. Nalia will look pretty meaningful as a statue right at the drawbridge of her keep as a monument for "helping the poor" by not trudging in the dungeons ^^.
Like you I didn't appreciate certain characters at first. Namely, Jaheira, Aeries, Haer'Dalis, thought they where weak and useless, boy was I wrong lol. But then again I thought greater werewolf was the bee's knees back in the days... Ahhh good times .
@biffyclanger Yeah I miss my first 3 runs so badly.. it will never be the same again. Once knowing too much is really never quite the same. Now I only try to think of weird way to challenge the gameplay.
Oh, by the way, I finally drag myself to move my 5 EE NPCs party to underdark and killed off all the side quests maps ... NOW then I enter the Drow city X_X (I learned how to fight elder orbs without using that shield of balduran accidentally ^^ using only 1 Archer to kill all the "eyes")
You know what would be pretty amusing? Cast immunity to magic scroll on Wilson have him go to town . I'd imagine flashbombs or glass powder (ouch) would be effective against them. Shame its not in the game lol.
@biffyclanger Haha, anyway my BG2 habit is often not buffing my charname. I primarily rely on items to protect him/her. By ToB's Neera's quest, I should be able to tank the "eyes" almost completely safe I guess. I dunno what they patched in the latest version but core rules no longer give random HP when I level up I wanted that random HP stuff ... T_T
Isn't there a magical version of a critical hit? Am I dreaming this up? In which case there is always a small chance to turning to stone and various other nasty effects, I am sure my PC died once even when he stacked all negative saves vs big group of them. 1st and only death even though I was sure he could make the save was super annoying.
@biffyclanger I think the 1.3x patch remove something from those "eyes". In BG2 and earlier EE v1.2030 I got petrified before. This time round, I didn't notice any attempt at turning me to stone. Oh maybe I was wearing the mirror cloak so the AI avoid using that? Previously when I become stoned, it was always in the sewers. It just might be that cloak that made the AI avoided that attack.
If they don't hit you they don't damage you. If you send a good summon like a fire elemental and as they are occupied with him and you kill them, all the ranged potential of the party on only one, the one your summon is attacking, you have a good chance. This is only a basic tactic. Or prepare the field with traps, thief ones, and lure them into. As you retreat use more traps, like Delayed Fireballs or Skull Traps, as you know that they are following you in not cheesy also if you cast them outside their view field, is not casting AoE on a enemy that you know will stand immobile into. Many many ways, but I stop here as the fun is discover them, not use other people recipes.
@biffyclanger SCS beholders are much tougher, invisibility don't work well against them. Usually, I will have at least 2 wands of monster summoning at least, in the party. If you do Neera's SoA quests and stole from the merchants in the enclave, you probably have a heap of wands by now. The real PnP beholders are actually extremely dangerous. In this game they have allowed the players a fighting chance, otherwise a standard beholder can be more dangerous than a demon lord encounter in the prime material.
I don't use Imoen. Lack of personality, lack of skills. But I do rescue her from Spellhold - you know, for RP reasons. And then I perform a little banter in my head to get rid of her that goes like:
"This quest is too dangerous for you, Imoen. I'll not let Irenicus touch you ever again and I won't be able to give my best against him being worry about you. I'll leave you with the paladins at Temple District and I promise to come back for you. Please, be brave."
Comments
I like Minsc characterization but not his fighting skills ^^ (no effect? I need a BIGGER sword !!)
And if he misses something in comparison to Korgan or mr ToB...... Boo will take care of the details!
I just installed the good old BG1+ToSC ... now I remember... no kits...
Reso is a real headache ....
He makes too much sound everytime I clicked him ^^
Hmm I need to have a bunch of such in my innate abilities to silence him xD
Yeah, the feeling is mutual ^^.
Maybe they should add an option to shut him up ^^.
I can resist not picking her, but once i pick her i can't drop her X_X.
Reason? The voice sounded so poor thing to be dropped X_X like a poor little girl (mind you, the voice belonged to a pretty elderly lady even during the stage of recording !!).
Yeah the original plot has a way of making players like us feel guilty or terrible.
The voice actors/actresses can really grind into us some of this guilt too.
Hope they could continue this approach and maybe make different stories not just always on the Bhaalspawn but maybe something else (so much ideas out there I bet the members here will happily contribute them too).
Imoen is just for the storiline, Jan is much stronger.
Jahiera for the romance, but she is really weak.
Yoshimo is a fail, he dies faster than mages. I join him on my party before leaving, his last quest is wortly.
Figher paladin as main is a must, developers said it too from the first release, they get the best weapons, expecially the 2x sword, leave alone the paladine sword, one of the best items you can get.
Kivan was a must, he by himself would make most of the kills.
Korgan, is good but is a troublemakers.
Arie is strong but dies too fast, still i belive Jan is the best pick but lacks of storyline.
Anomen is not bad but still a troblemaker, he cares nothing about alignement and he would pick on you main too, also if the both have the same alignment, i use him for the quest he has than i kick him.
Nalie is too weak as a thief, she fails too much at it.
Some from bg1 were not exported in bg2 and they were quite strong.
The news with the EE, they are strong but bugged, to cheat is a must or you wont get moving at all. The lack of fixings doest give to their new sequel a good impression.
Also the real sequel was nwn where you would find imoen in there. Not a fan of the so called 3d games so i drpped it.
Anyway main as a figher, viconia as cleric, jan as thief and mage, you can make it just by them.
Jaheira in the hands of some players can be effective until the end, good stats as there is plenty of STR enhancers, fight as well as each other multi fighter (fighter HLA), druid's magic (summons, IP, Ironskin).
Imoen and Nalia are as good as a pure class mage as they dualed very early, with some thief advantage, weapons and basic trap and lock handling. Imoen technically is better, but there are some level problems, that can be solved (rescue her early, use the same memorizing trick that is often used to speed up charname dualing in mage). Nalia is a little too weak in her basic rogue utility, but as the game can be played without thief and potions are there is not a problem. See them as strong mages, not as weak thieves.
I agree on the power of Jan, a gnome M/T is strong, but as a multi will reach the arcane power of the "weak" Nalia much later.
Those are evaluations that really depend on party composition and player's style and preference, I don't say that your evaluations are wrong, I only give different ones to show how the relative power of NPCs is player dependent.
The way the balance it is deliberately giving strange weapon specialization to certain NPCs making many players feel frustrated but all is done in the name of game balance.
If only Bioware isn't so hardpress to release the title, it would have been even more fabulous a game.
From UB mod, one can see how far it was actually intended but they ran out of funding and time.
UB barely managed to reconstruct a tiny portion of the original intended plot.
When I first played the game I was also among those who say "why the hell did those NPC specialized in such crap weapons" etc !! Now I can see it in a different light and very often deliberately try to find weapons most suited for them if I wanted them in the party till end of ToB.
I used to underestimate Jaheira and Anomen and Aerie, loved Mazzy Korgan Jan Keldon (but of course personality wise I still don't like Jaheira Anomen, these 2 always tempted me to petrify them and place them in the middle of CC to help the decor ^^. Nalia will look pretty meaningful as a statue right at the drawbridge of her keep as a monument for "helping the poor" by not trudging in the dungeons ^^.
Yeah I miss my first 3 runs so badly.. it will never be the same again.
Once knowing too much is really never quite the same.
Now I only try to think of weird way to challenge the gameplay.
Oh, by the way, I finally drag myself to move my 5 EE NPCs party to underdark and killed off all the side quests maps ... NOW then I enter the Drow city X_X (I learned how to fight elder orbs without using that shield of balduran accidentally ^^ using only 1 Archer to kill all the "eyes")
Haha, anyway my BG2 habit is often not buffing my charname. I primarily rely on items to protect him/her.
By ToB's Neera's quest, I should be able to tank the "eyes" almost completely safe I guess.
I dunno what they patched in the latest version but core rules no longer give random HP when I level up
I wanted that random HP stuff ... T_T
I think the 1.3x patch remove something from those "eyes".
In BG2 and earlier EE v1.2030 I got petrified before.
This time round, I didn't notice any attempt at turning me to stone. Oh maybe I was wearing the mirror cloak so the AI avoid using that? Previously when I become stoned, it was always in the sewers.
It just might be that cloak that made the AI avoided that attack.
The only time I have my NPCs petrified is in Trademeet.
@Bubbles , if you are looking to a way to challenge your gameplay next time try Beholders without both shield and cloack, plenty of challenge.
Or prepare the field with traps, thief ones, and lure them into. As you retreat use more traps, like Delayed Fireballs or Skull Traps, as you know that they are following you in not cheesy also if you cast them outside their view field, is not casting AoE on a enemy that you know will stand immobile into.
Many many ways, but I stop here as the fun is discover them, not use other people recipes.
SCS beholders are much tougher, invisibility don't work well against them.
Usually, I will have at least 2 wands of monster summoning at least, in the party.
If you do Neera's SoA quests and stole from the merchants in the enclave, you probably have a heap of wands by now. The real PnP beholders are actually extremely dangerous. In this game they have allowed the players a fighting chance, otherwise a standard beholder can be more dangerous than a demon lord encounter in the prime material.
"This quest is too dangerous for you, Imoen. I'll not let Irenicus touch you ever again and I won't be able to give my best against him being worry about you. I'll leave you with the paladins at Temple District and I promise to come back for you. Please, be brave."
Polymorph her into a hamster ^^ and keep in the pocket for safety ^^