PfMW + PfNA: Magical arrows didn't do damage

Skatan

Hello,

I've played alot of BG but I have never been that guy who memorizes all spells, and especially not spell protections. I tend to use spells fairly layman-like and unfocused, mainly using buffs, a few debuffs and AoE/summoning spells etc. With this said, I have never been the best person for stripping enemy mages of their protections, which isn't really needed in BG either and I don't play SCS (partly for that reason!).

So, yesterday I had a mage (don't remember who) cast PfMW and PfNA, so I changed from normal arrows to +1 arrows for my archer, but for some reason they didn't penetrate. Normally I wouldn't even noticed it since I had six characters attacking the mage and I did damage (like Korgans fire damage from his axe etc) and the mage died fairly quickly, but this time I actually looked at the combat log and I was suprised to see that the +1 arrows and +2 bolts didn't do any damage.

So my question is, what did I do wrong? Obviously the PfMW worked as it should since Korgans normal damage didn't penetrate the spell, only the added fire damage. But my magical bows and slings with magical ammo should have done damage, right? Or does the PfMW protect the mage from the magical damage from the arrows/bolts as well?

I feel that I really should know this by now, consdering how much time I've played this game, hehe.. But I'm gonna let you experienced people educate me

Cheers,
//Skat.

Lord_Tansheron

Protection from Magic Weapons will stop any and all enchanted weaponry, be it blade, bullet, or blunt instrument; or, in this case, arrows.

Your PfMW + PfNA combo essentially makes the character immune against all forms of arrows.

Jaheiras_Witness

If the mage had PfMW active, then Korgan was certainly not doing any fire damage with his axe. PfMW blocks everything a magical weapon does, including elemental damage and any on-hit effects. The weapon would be totally useless.

You already have an answer to your specific question above (and it is correct). I think it's likely the PfMW had worn off in the bit you were monitoring and that you were actually working your way through the mage's Stoneskins.

semiticgoddess

The interesting thing is that Protection from Normal Missiles uses a different opcode than PFMW. It grants immunity to a certain set of projectiles, which nonmagical arrows etc use, but which magical arrows do not.

If, for example, you tweak a normal arrow to use the fire arrow projectile, it will bypass immunity to normal missiles.

gorgonzola

Some more things.
When using arrows or other ranged ammunition the enchantment of the launcher (the bow) and the proiectile (the arrow) both contribute to thaco, so using a arrow +1 whith a bow +2 give a thaco bonus of +3 to hit.
But only the enchantment of the arrow count to check what your archer can hit.
If a monster is immune to +1 or less weapons you have to use a +2 or more arrow to hit him, no matter if you use an unenchanted bow or a +4bow.
If a monster is protected whith PFMW so is immune to every magical one, no matter if ranged or mlee, you have to use a unenchanted arrow, no matter if you use an unenchanted bow or a +4bow.
And if he is protected whith both PFMW and PfNA, as @Lord_Tansheron told, the character immune against all forms of arrows, since one spell protects from enchanted ones and the other from unenchanted.

I want also to explain a little more what @Jaheiras_Witness told. PFMF and the mantle spells block completely certain weapons, PFMW magical ones and the mantles and Absolute Immunity from unenchanted to +3, +4 and +5, since the hits are completely blocked also the elemental or poison damage that some weapons add is blocked. Becouse is a on hit added damage, but the weapon can not hit.
Stoneskin doesn't block the weapon, the weapon hits, but the damage is taken by a skin, that is consumed. The elemental damage is not taken by the skin and lowers the monster HP and eventually disrupts spells.

Skatan

Thanks for all replies.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can replay the battled due to missing a save prior to it. This is annoying since I would really like to see what it was that did damage to the mage, because obviously he died without me having to strip down his protections. Ofc I threw a couple of magic missiles etc at him as usual, so maybe I was wrong and it was those who killed him and not the fire damage.

gorgonzola

PFMW is a powerful protection, but lasts only few rounds.
as @Jaheiras_Witness told it's likely the PfMW had worn off, without you having to strip it down, but he had also a stoneskin active, that last a long time, but each hit removes a skin.
So probably in the beginning he was not taking phisical damage at all, after the PFWM elapsed he was taking elemental damage through the stoneskin from Korgan's axe, and maybe in the last moments when all the skins where consumed also phisical damage.

We will never know, but the important thing is that now you have knowledge about how these protections work.

Skatan

It was very few rounds, so I can never be sure what happened, but the protections shouldn't have worn off. Though ofc, that's probably what happened, even though I don't remember it that way. Regarding stoneskin, I know how that works. At least I've picked that up during my years of playing, hehe

gorgonzola

Very few? PFMW duration is only 4 rounds, 24 seconds real time. And if you had some mlee fighters hitting him after PFMW expired (your ranged attacks doesn't count as he was protected whith PfNA) the stoneskin would be eroded quite fast, so if few means 6 or 7 rounds what I told was possible.

Skatan

Like I said, that's probably what happened, but it felt like less than 4 rounds. I did look more than usual at the combat log, but I wasn't paying 100% attention. IIRC, the mage never had stoneskin, not that it matters though.

gorgonzola

Skatan said:

Like I said, that's probably what happened, but it felt like less than 4 rounds. I did look more than usual at the combat log, but I wasn't paying 100% attention. IIRC, the mage never had stoneskin, not that it matters though.

In a hard battle, especially if you look often at the combat log, is easy to loose the sense of time flowing.
About stoneskin is relevant if he was taking elemental damage but not regular mlee damage, from your first post "like Korgans fire damage from his axe etc", as Stoneskin or an unlikely 100% slashing resistance are the only explanations I can think about.