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Jaheira HLA

Hey so I finally got to the point where Jaheira started to get HLAs. There a lot to choose from and I don't want to pick the wrong ones to gimp myself later on.

Adviced needed on what to give her.

I tend to use her as dual wielder with Belm in offhand she gets 9/2 attacks naturally and 9 with Improved haste. Is it better to go Spear and WW? She has Ironskin is it still good to take hardiness? I know Critical Strike is good but how many should I get? Which HLA should I skip and why?

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Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,339
    edited January 2016
    It would be great to find out about your other party members, because it influences the choice - i.e. should you choose fighter or druid HLAs.

    For example, if you don't have any more casters (unlikely, but still), I would take the Deva first. Even if you have one wizard (who gives you Improved haste) I would still take the Deva - as soon as your Planetar is gone you need another helper, and the Deva will do fine.

    But if you want to take the fighter HLA first, and you already have 9 APR with Improved haste for Jaheira, I would choose Critical Strike.

    Also, does Jaheira have 2 pips in spears? If not, it's better to wait till she gets the second pip.

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
    gorgonzolabiffyclanger
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    Use her as dual wielder with Belm in offhand is usually also my choice, but GWW with Impaler or upgraded Ixil Spike is nasty.
    GWW or CS depend on how much IH your party can cast. also at high level many enemies are immune to crits so CS is only 100% chance to hit, and I find that my fighters at that level hit often anyway. And GWW is immediate in an emergency situation where your mages have to do something other, like dispelling PFMW.
    Or maybe IH has been dispelled and you use GWW to land the coup de grâce. So I usually choose more GWW, but also a few CS. It depends on party composition and player style, there is not an absolute winner. Don't undersimate other fighter HLAs, only the war cry is an unuseful joke and a total waste.
    To choose between Druid and Fighter HLA depend on how you use her, Deva and Greater Elemental are strong summons and also other Druid HLAs are useful.
    Hardness, if you use her as a fighter is really important, Ironskin is always useful, but the more you progress through ToB the more you see is really not eough.
    bengoshi said:

    It would be great to find out about your other party members, because it influenced the choice

    I agree, and even so the player style lead to different choices with similar parties.
    Maybe is better that you post your planned choice, in the order you intend to get them, so not 3xCS 2xGWW, but CS, CS, GWW, CS, GWW, your party composition and we will have something more concrete to give you hints.

    JuliusBorisov
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    When in doubt, pick Hardiness, it's never a bad choice.

    gorgonzolasarevok57grisbossk
  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    edited January 2016
    They're all good, and since you will eventually use most or all of them, it's not a worry about what order you pick them unless you're powergaming and have high expectations for squeezing every last drop of power out of your fighters. If you are simply playing the game to have fun, choose the one with the most appealing description.

    All of the druid HLAs are good. All of them. No exceptions. Pick one and roll with it.

    For warrior HLAs, I'd go with whirlwind. You have to pick it to get to greater whirlwind, so you should get it out of the way anyhow. Even at a thaco penalty whirlwind is devastating. Equip Jaheira with the club of detonation, protect her with resist fire/cold and protection from fire, and start laughing as your enemies are fried by repeated fireball explosions. No, it's not powergaming, and fireball isn't that strong, but it is definitely fun.

    The same can be done with any other fighter using fire protection items and buffs, equipped with the Harbinger +3, a vastly underrated blade. Hopefully you didn't leave it in the underdark, if you're past that point. Now a fighter/thief, if you have one, using Harbinger +3 of Club of Det., whirlwind and a time stop trap... barrels of laughs.

    Other good HLAs for warriors are power attack---->critical strike, hardiness, magic resistance* and the often overlooked deathblow or greater deathblow (which instakills any creature under 12HD, I think, so it's essentially a 'death spell' for fighters. I think most summoned creatures, if not all, are under this 12HD limit, though someone else might be able to educate on that).

    * About magic resistance, it's probably my personal favourite. I think it's incredible. It's a second front against magic, against which spells have a 60% chance of getting through, except that if they do get through they then have to check against your saving throws, which by HLA time is usually in the range of 30% success. A 60%---->30% chance of succeeding is further diminished by needing to succeed against both barriers to successfully affect your NPCs, and though I'm not up on my statistics I think that double barrier obstacle makes the actual percentage of successful magic attacks (that have saves) lower than either of those numbers.

    Though one of the resident number crunchers around here probably know more about that.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    I am not a number cruncher, but assuming 60% chance to pass HLA magic resistence and 30% to pass saving throw the chance is 30% of 60% so 0.3 * 0.6 = 0.18 or 18%.
    Less then 1/5 of the spells that are blocked by MR and completely negated by saving throws hits.

    sluckers
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    bengoshi said:

    It would be great to find out about your other party members, because it influences the choice - i.e. should you choose fighter or druid HLAs.

    For example, if you don't have any more casters (unlikely, but still), I would take the Deva first. Even if you have one wizard (who gives you Improved haste) I would still take the Deva - as soon as your Planetar is gone you need another helper, and the Deva will do fine.

    But if you want to take the fighter HLA first, and you already have 9 APR with Improved haste for Jaheira, I would choose Critical Strike.

    Also, does Jaheira have 2 pips in spears? If not, it's better to wait till she gets the second pip.


    Good point I've imported a multiplayer game into single player to mess around with FMT in addition to my PC which is an un-nerfed cleric/ranger multi

    PC- R/C Dual wielding FoA/DoE
    Jaheira - Dual wielding Water's Talon(Item upgrade)/Belm
    Keldorn - Holy Avenger and Firetooth crossbow
    FMT - Firehooth Dagger (don't have yet), Staff of the Magi, Staff of Ram when I get it.
    Haer'Dalis - His mainly sitting parked around singing and firing off occasional spells. Crimson Dart and his default weapons + SSoM.
    Open Slot for Imoen atm. I alway pick her up until Chapter 6.

    JuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    Little weak on arcane department. Let Haer'Dalis memorize lev depending spells and FMT the others.
    Give Haer'Dalis OH the +1APR short sword and EVERY thaco enhancer he can use, ranged Tugian and after Gesen. later with UAI he can use also SNT for 4APR. Blades if you are not used seem weak, well equipped and after rising few levels are very strong. No reason to sing with a blade before HLA bard song, as you use him now is wasted.
    PC and Jaheira ok, FMT may be better with axes then daggers, upgraded Adzuredge is strong and against undeads OP, it and GWW = Lich or vampire killed in 2 or 3 seconds, often before he sets protections.

    biffyclangerJuliusBorisovGotural
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    And upgrade Impaler for jaheira.....

    biffyclanger
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Well yeah but I only use my arcane magic to strip spell protections, Keldorn can clean everything once protection from abjuration is down. My FMT and Haer'Dalis uses Protection from Abjuration so their buff remain intact. Throw in a breach here and there and I do rarely get into trouble. Only time things got hairy was with the Twisted Rune. That annoying Beholder nullified my casters. Had to charge in with Keldorn to sort it out. I rarely use spell offensively. Its more satisfying to hack everything to bits lol. Actually very viable. I plan to make Haer'Dalis use Simulacrum from the Helmet and use the clone to sing which is more legit than mislead clone. I got Imoen now so she can help out a little as a buff bot. Haer'Dalis does use Kundune occasionally but i have Scarlet Ninjato lined up for him. I occasionally give him Crimson Dart or Boomerang Dagger but really doesn't make much of a difference as his THaC0 is not there yet. I find I don't even need him to fight and only get him to melee when there are lots of enemies as me and Jaheira with improved haste carves up everything just fine. I just have to micro them away from Keldorn's Dispel magic and I am golden.

    I've encountered something weird in the Spellhold maze. My lvl 17 cleric managed to turn the lich u get there as a random encounter but not the greater mummies and skeleton warriors (run away instead of being destroyed outright). Is that a bug? Liches should be harder to turn surely? Kinda anti climatic as I buffed up the wazoo and bam he dropped before the opening salvo....

    Regarding Jaheira's HLA I am thinking just 1 or 2 Hardiness for emergency as she has Iron Skin and Armor of Faith. Can use Shield in a pinch. Probably not enough for some bosses. Maybe stick to 9 APR with IH and forget about Spear all together, what do you guys think? Does WW with Spear do a lot more? I will end up with enough proficiency pips for Spear anyway... So maybe 2 greater WW for when I need to use Shield as well. Critical Strike sounds really good! probably get as many as I can. I am thinking of Skipping Elemental Summoning don't know if thats a good idea though. Not sure about energy blades for her either. Maybe skip Elemental transformation too? I am sure she fights better with 9 APR IH or GWW anyway right? I can't think of an occasion where elemental transformation will be useful as their APR is crap. That will give me a few more Critical Strikes...

    JuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207

    And upgrade Impaler for jaheira.....

    I've never used Impaler hmmm.. might give it a go!

  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280

    Well yeah but I only use my arcane magic to strip spell protections, Keldorn can clean everything once protection from abjuration is down. My FMT and Haer'Dalis uses Protection from Abjuration so their buff remain intact. Throw in a breach here and there and I do rarely get into trouble. Only time things got hairy was with the Twisted Rune. That annoying Beholder nullified my casters. Had to charge in with Keldorn to sort it out. I rarely use spell offensively. Its more satisfying to hack everything to bits lol. Actually very viable. I plan to make Haer'Dalis use Simulacrum from the Helmet and use the clone to sing which is more legit than mislead clone. I got Imoen now so she can help out a little as a buff bot. Haer'Dalis does use Kundune occasionally but i have Scarlet Ninjato lined up for him. I occasionally give him Crimson Dart or Boomerang Dagger but really doesn't make much of a difference as his THaC0 is not there yet. I find I don't even need him to fight and only get him to melee when there are lots of enemies as me and Jaheira with improved haste carves up everything just fine. I just have to micro them away from Keldorn's Dispel magic and I am golden.

    I've encountered something weird in the Spellhold maze. My lvl 17 cleric managed to turn the lich u get there as a random encounter but not the greater mummies and skeleton warriors (run away instead of being destroyed outright). Is that a bug? Liches should be harder to turn surely? Kinda anti climatic as I buffed up the wazoo and bam he dropped before the opening salvo....

    Regarding Jaheira's HLA I am thinking just 1 or 2 Hardiness for emergency as she has Iron Skin and Armor of Faith. Can use Shield in a pinch. Probably not enough for some bosses. Maybe stick to 9 APR with IH and forget about Spear all together, what do you guys think? Does WW with Spear do a lot more? I will end up with enough proficiency pips for Spear anyway... So maybe 2 greater WW for when I need to use Shield as well. Critical Strike sounds really good! probably get as many as I can. I am thinking of Skipping Elemental Summoning don't know if thats a good idea though. Not sure about energy blades for her either. Maybe skip Elemental transformation too? I am sure she fights better with 9 APR IH or GWW anyway right? I can't think of an occasion where elemental transformation will be useful as their APR is crap. That will give me a few more Critical Strikes...

    I don't know if that's a bug. I didn't think skeleton warriors and greater mummies could ever be turned. I've had higher level clerics than that blow up liches, mummies and ghouls but fail to even frighten those two kinds of undead. I always thought they were immune.

    Not all liches are equal. As far as I know, the liches that spawn randomly or when you hit an XP threshold are more like 'Liches-Lite'. The ones in the temple ruins or undead village, for example, have never seemed as hard or powerful as the ones that are static.

    Regarding HLAs, It seems you already have a firm idea of what you want in regards to Jahiera. You're probably better off just going with that.

    JuliusBorisovbiffyclanger
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    edited January 2016
    Impaler = one of the most damaging weapons in the game
    Upgraded Impaler with Item Upgrade = Impaler with +1APR, mlee and ranged, a +4 throwing weapon that on top of its huge damage add strength bonus. The only reason to not use it is if you think that is too OP.
    I really love Water Talon, long reach, hp added on hit and the rest but....
    7 (10 with GWW) APR with TI make more damage then 9 10) APR with WT + Belm, do yourelf the math. And look for average and minimum damage, that are more important.

    Haer'Dalis
    Using Haer'Dalis mislead clones to sing can be considered cheese, there are good reasons to do but also to not do so, as a mislead is prevented from almost everything but not from singing, is a long time known issue and no pach ever cured it so someone can assume that is a wanted by devs issue (but I don't know if is hardcoded and difficoult to cure, I am not a modder or programmer). But using simulacrum to sing imo is no cheese at all, simmis can do everithing outside using contingiences and sequencers, attack, cast, use items in quick slots, are level drained but perfect clones of the caster (a PnP lover will tell that they are made of snow, but does it matter? can snow hit like steel? can the snowman talk and cast spells?). I don't see a reason why a perfect clone with mlee and casting capability can not sing.
    The problem with blades is that their song does not improove and in not useful outside some rare situations, you loose a strong fighter clone (1 more Kel dispelling on hit, 1 more Charname slowing and disrupting trough stoneskin) for nothing. when he will have HLA IBS the things will be different, +4 +4 +4 to the party is strong, +8 +8 +8 is better. Incredible AC and THACO boost, and +8dmg on each attack.
    But again do the math, this is at the cost of 1 fighter clone and Haer'Dalis himself, that wiith 8APR (IH) or 5APR(OS) with maxed damage rolls can do some good damage.
    By the way did you give him a good strenght belt, good THACO rising gauntlets and will you give him the Helm of balduran? To use him effectively mlee he NEEDS the right gear, that is wasted for other toons that gain from it but don't depend on it as he do but you gain 1 more effective mlee fighter. Aagain do the math.
    Or you can use him ranged and after IBS you can use a sing and attack strategy like the mages can do a cast and attack, sing and attack is way more powerful. And not so difficoult to do as ranged attacks don't have the fake attacs of mlee, every attack you see onscreen is a real one.
    Give him gesen (equipped with unenchainted arrows disrupts trough PFMW, only Firetooth can do the same, and equipped with elemental or enchainted arrows stacks their dmg and thaco) for 2 (4 IHasted) APR and let him attack. After you see 2 (4) attacks hit the song button and after you see in the combat log that song is activated repeat. Some good ranged damage and disrupting on top of IBS bonuses for the whole party.
    Seems complicated, but as you get used to it becomes almost automatic, your eye "count by himself" the attacs as yiou look at the main screen, then pause, activate song (hotkey) and unpause is 0.2 seconds, then your eye look automatically at the log for song activation.
    Bards need good stuff and a little micro, do it or avoid them.......


    Regarding Jaheira's HLA
    Armor of Faith is a reason to pack up hardness and have her with good damage resistance. I told you and I repeat, at ToB levels ironskin is not enough, and she has not the HP of a pure fighter or a lev 9-13 dual levelled up sliding down difficoulty to maxed HP gain. And Throwing Impaler is a reason to pack up GWW. For her in this party CS seems to me situational, as almost all the strong enemies are protected from crits and the others don't deserve the waste of an HLA.
    Elemental Transformations are good for single class, she is much powerful as she is.
    Energy Blades are inferior to Throwing Impaler, maybe one, maybe not.
    Aura of Flaming Death, short cast time, a strong fireshield, if you have a lot of other HLAs maybe 1
    Mass Raise Dead, in notEE is a powerful party health restorer, OP. but you have the wand, single target, to heal people in combat. Maybe 1 if a battle go wrong and many toons are hard damaged. A party life saver.
    Implosion is the best damaging spell for a druid, bypass MR, stuns, but not the bosses, huge damage, 1/2 if saved, single target, fast casting (for a druid....). The more the better.
    Storm of Vengeance, Aoe, 3 round duration, long casting time, low damage but disrupts almost everyone, anticaster spell, 1 or 2 are situationally wey useful.
    Globe of Blades, long casting time, last 10 rounds, usually strong enemies save against, in notEE not party frendly. I seldom use it.
    Deva and Elemental Summoning, alredy told in previous posts, really good summons.


    Edited to avoid textwall

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
    JuliusBorisovbiffyclanger
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    @gorgonzola

    Hey Great I had a go with Impaler its quite an impressive weapon!! Can't wait to try it on Ascension bosses!
    I remember from a long time ago discovered that if you have Haer'Dalis use Simulacrum and have both he and his clone use mislead and you ended up with 4 improved bard songs on your party. Wonder if that still works in EE. Its definitely cheese though. What you are saying about sing and shoot sound legit! Will give it a go. He has proficiencies in Daggers so I can use the firetooth dagger. Btw I tried to use normal arrows on SCS mages with PfMW with the fast attack bow you get from copper coronet. Didn't work for some reason. Does it only work with Gessen and Firetooth?? Why is that? My understanding is that you can only have 1 uber summon at a time right? Sry its been awhile since my last play through. Can you have Elemental Prince, Deva and Planetar active at the same time?






  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,339
    Both a bard and his Simulacrum singing stack still works in BG2EE.

    Normal arrows should work on mages who don't have a protection from normal missiles active. Maybe their stoneskin blocked damage, and this is what you saw? Check https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/46669/pfmw-pfna-magical-arrows-didnt-do-damage#latest

    You can have only one Deva or Planetar active (only one Deva or only one Planetar), but you can have Elemental Prince while your Deva or Planetar are there.

    gorgonzola
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,346
    My opinion for best HLAs:

    Druid HLAs:

    Storm of Vengeance-best spell, ignores mr, huge area, deals a coctail of damage, disrupts spellcasters.
    Greater elemental summoning-very powerful summon!

    I skip others cos:
    Energy blades, elemental transformation-useful for non-warriors who can not use a weapon effectively.
    Implosion-single target, bosses are immune
    Aura of Flaming Death-there are cheaper/easier ways to get fire resistance, other stuff is minor.
    Globe of Blades-planetar&deva can cast it.
    Deva-mages should summon Planetars instead
    Mass raise dead-not powerful enough for a mass heal in combat.

    Fighter HLAs:
    Greater whirlwind-can't have too many, the moment an enemy mage's protections are breached, spam this for a quick kill.
    Smite-best HLA, stuns pretty much anything-can only be taken once, it is that good!

    I never pick hardiness for Jaheira, she has ironskins. I never pick warcry because a mage can cast horror spell. Greater deathblow is awesome for a number of fatal critters like gauths, mind flayers, umber hulks but I just can't find enough HLA picks to take them. Power attack is also very good actually, but gww wins for sheer damage potential in a blink. Potions of magic resistance are handy for the few moments where J really needs high magic resistance.

    Critical strike-I never dual wield with Jaheira so she can't really abuse Belm+imrpoved haste in my set up. If your Jaheira can have 8-9 attacks/round with improved haste, a few critical strikes can be handy.

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    @biffyclanger
    Gesen and Firetoth (xbow) deal elemental damage, Tasheron can be used without arrows but don't deal elemental damage.
    So if equipped with mundane arrows all 3 deal damage (as every other bow or xbow in the game) against PFMW, but if the mage is also protected with stoneskin ( that absorbs the mundane damage of the arrow) only G and F deal elemental damage through the stoneskin.
    Tasheron is a good weapon, hits as +3 in SoA where yu don't have +3 arrows (WK excluded), but has not the disrupting potential of G and F.
    Against someone protected with PFMW and PfNA no way to use a ranged weapon AFAIK.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,339
    @lunar Storm of Vengeance, unlike Fire Storm, doesn't go through Magic Resistance. It's a party-friendly HLA, though.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    Yes, it's strength is not bypassing MR, but dealing 3 different elamantal damages, save to 1/2, and poison damage, only first round, save to negate. Few or no enemy has resistance for all those, so chance of disrupting is very high

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Hey first of all thx for all the advice. Very enlightening.

    I just tried to hit Deirex the lich with normal arrows from firetooth both before and after he has PfMW up. Nothing in fact Keldorn and my FMT using normal arrow with Tansheron both says weapon ineffective wtf?. Are Liches immune to normal weapons? btw this is with SCS installed so he opens either with squenced ADHW or a summon demon and magic sword.

    I defeated him by piece shield followed by piece magic and breach and hack him down before another protection can go up. At this point in the game my HLA have activated and I could have WW with improved mace of Disruption or continually use Sunray to kill but its more satisfying to counter what he is using. Which makes PfMW counter ie. normal arrow and bolt not working all the more annoying.




  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Ah i forgot to add which dialogue option allow me to kick Jalaxle's ass? I've wanting to kill him since my first game years ago when I got my ass handed to me by the lich again and again lol. Oh and I have Sellswords installed so I was wondering if killing him in Ust Natha affects Sellswords mod.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703

    Are Liches immune to normal weapons?


    Yessss.
    Also the vanilla ones are, and other undeads, demons, some golems and other foe.
    The tactic works mainly with mages, clerics and druids.

    biffyclangerJuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207

    Are Liches immune to normal weapons?


    Yessss.
    Also the vanilla ones are, and other undeads, demons, some golems and other foe.
    The tactic works mainly with mages, clerics and druids.

    No wonder lol! Darn, thats probably why in the original game liches mainly used mantle and improved mantle. Does that mean Mace of Disruption won't connect at all? Btw I noticed Powerword Silence works on Liches. Which is kinda weird since such a powerful spell caster you'd think they'd be vocalized all the time.
    I guess i can still use the normal arrow/bolt tactic on Drow war parties. thx for the help.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    In the original game liches mainly used mantle and improved mantle becouse they where idiot......
    PFMW is the spell to use, since they are already immune to normal weapon, every smart lich uses PFMW.
    I will post the hint in liches forums, they will appreciate, and you will suffer.......
    :smile:

    JuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Btw I just tested Water's Talon on my own toons vs Impaler. Water's Talon does by far more damage because the poison tick per second stacks, and doesn't ever stop untill ur dead. I am probably not going to use it as its way too powerful. Its a lot more OP than I thought. Of course against poison immune enemies like undead Impaler will do more. But man that weapon....

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,346
    bengoshi said:

    @lunar Storm of Vengeance, unlike Fire Storm, doesn't go through Magic Resistance. It's a party-friendly HLA, though.

    It does not? Wow that is weird I always thought it did. Thank you!
    Just checked via dltcep, yep it does not.
    This does not make sense. IMHO. In my game I will now edit them so fire storm will not bypass mr, it makes no sense why it should, and offer a save for half. But SoV will bypass mr, being a hla, a direct punishment from the gods.

    JuliusBorisovGotural
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    @biffyclanger, tested against normal impaler or upgraded one?
    The upgraded has +1 APR and can be used also ranged, and no sling can mach his damage, wirh it Jaheira will be your best ranged toon, dealing more damage then many mlee fighters.

    Water's Talon +4
    1d8+4, each hit raises user's current and max hp by
    2 and poisons victim for 2hp/second. Extended
    Reach. Immune to Charm and Horrid Wilting.
    Impaler
    Rogue Stone
    15,000 Gold
    Impaler +4 (throwing spear, long bow rate-of-fire)
    1d6+4 + 10
    Apr: DW wt and belm give only belm attack bonus as the +1APR given by belm and the long bow rate-of-fire are identical bonuses.
    Damage: WT minimum 5, average 8,5, max 12, + 12/round poison upgraded Impaler minimum 15, average 17,5, max 20. Weapon damage only, other bonuses not included.
    They are both very good weapons, at the level of the best ToB ones.
    Immunity to ADHW and poison are very important, but Impaler (ranged) start to hit as you see enemy, the time you reach him welding WT using Imp. he would have something like 35-52,5 average damage for the 2 or 3 attacks you can make earlier. using GWW even more. You soften the foe quite a bit.
    Imo is worth to have 2 pips in both and use WT with mages and foe that will last more time (depending also if is attacked by her or the full party) and TI with less lasting enemies or to clear monster helpers that are not near to the main monster.
    Use both and choose the best for the tactic you plan to use in that battle.

    As you are in the Item Upgrade thing did you upgrade your blade's weapons?
    Chaos
    Entropy
    Scroll of Chaos
    Scroll of Greater Malison
    Ilbratha
    Arbane
    Rogue Stone
    25,000 Gold
    Creeping Chaos
    (+3 weapon, 5% confuse target, 2 pt dex drain)
    Inevitable Entropy
    (+3 weapon, 5% cast malison on target, 6 pts poison)

    biffyclanger
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    @gorgonzola Yeah I did they are really strong but I am letting him dual wield 2 speed weapon atm Scarlet Ninjato and Kundune in off hand he gets natural 4 apr and i have him wield Crom Faeyr as an main hand alt weapon for better ThaC0. My R/C get 25 str with DUHM anyway so he doesn't need it. Honestly though because i stole from Terminsel 2 times i have 3 upgraded cloak that gives 23 rounds of improved haste everything just melts when you throw in critical strike. Been messing around with Quietus +4, does about 160 damage straight up with backstab. pretty cool. SCS fight with Irenicus in Spellhold and Bodhi was EPIC! Looking forward for the Hell Irenicus and Ascension content.

    I know what ur saying about range but boots of speed and stacked with improved haste ur moving like a bullet. My FMT is using Gessen atm, might spec her to use Impaler instead. Gessen for stone skin penetration as alt.

  • jinxed75jinxed75 Member Posts: 157
    As your party is more on the melee side of things, I'd definitely go for a certain Druid HLA first. Greater Elemental Summoning should be your priority. The Elemental Princes are the best summons in the game, even leaving Planetars in the dust. Granted, they cannot provide you with Healing like the Planetars, but their staying power is unrivaled(there is a reason why the spell duration is limited to one turn, unmodded). After that, you can focus on taking Fighter HLAs, since (if you don't use a mod to change the Spell Progression Table) Jaheira will be stuck with one Lvl7 spell slot for a long time.
    As the others have said, get some GWWs first, then the other things like Smite, CS, Hardiness, etc. GWWs are the safe choice to getting 10APR with any weapon, CS is nice but tied to a number of conditions, as stated in various posts above.
    As for the weapons, both Water Talon and Impaler(as well as the improved Daystar) from Item Upgrades are completely OP in a non-Tactics game.
    Weimer made the item upgrade mod as a supplement to his crazy Tactics mod, this is something a lot of people overlook when discussing the stuff you can get out of it.
    But I agree with gorgonzola, the Impaler takes the crown of silliness in terms of damage output combined with the option to deal it from safe distance.
    I personally stay away from these kind of weapons that trivialize many supposedly hard encounters even in a SCS-game, but this up to everyones choice, of course.

    biffyclangergorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    @biffyclanger.
    About upgraded Haer'Dalis weapons they are good before UAI, also I go for 4APR after it.
    And usually don't have Crom Faeyr forged, you have, so using it as blade's MH weapon is fine, as he hit with +5 and +3 and with +7 thaco +14 dmg from STR at the cost of 1 less APR seems good.
    I agree with FMT using Impaler or Gesen according to the situation, the important thing is not waste that OP weapon, anyone can weld it with good APR is fine.

    Hint: when you use the Haer'Dalis and clone sing and (range) attack tactic give Impaler to him, even if he is not proficient, +8 THACO from the stacked songs and +4 from weapon enchantment and her huge damage staked with songs bonus make your 2 blades really nasty. I give it to him also with no simulacrum clone every time he cast and attack, that is something he can do at will and not only 1 time for rest.

    biffyclanger
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    jinxed75 said:

    As your party is more on the melee side of things, I'd definitely go for a certain Druid HLA first. Greater Elemental Summoning should be your priority. The Elemental Princes are the best summons in the game, even leaving Planetars in the dust. Granted, they cannot provide you with Healing like the Planetars, but their staying power is unrivaled(there is a reason why the spell duration is limited to one turn, unmodded). After that, you can focus on taking Fighter HLAs, since (if you don't use a mod to change the Spell Progression Table) Jaheira will be stuck with one Lvl7 spell slot for a long time.
    As the others have said, get some GWWs first, then the other things like Smite, CS, Hardiness, etc. GWWs are the safe choice to getting 10APR with any weapon, CS is nice but tied to a number of conditions, as stated in various posts above.
    As for the weapons, both Water Talon and Impaler(as well as the improved Daystar) from Item Upgrades are completely OP in a non-Tactics game.
    Weimer made the item upgrade mod as a supplement to his crazy Tactics mod, this is something a lot of people overlook when discussing the stuff you can get out of it.
    But I agree with gorgonzola, the Impaler takes the crown of silliness in terms of damage output combined with the option to deal it from safe distance.
    I personally stay away from these kind of weapons that trivialize many supposedly hard encounters even in a SCS-game, but this up to everyones choice, of course.

    Aright cool you've convinced me, I'll get the Elemental Princes then. Its so painful to wait till 6mill exp to get more lvl7 slots for Jaheira lol. I was initially reluctant because of the short duration but if they are that good then why not.

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