Having my desktops custom built I can put together a kickass rig for around $700-900. Or actually I just upgrade various components every few years for a few hundred bucks.
Yup, custom built is always the best.
Also, from my experience with Macs; being all-in-one units (except their towers, which are actually easy to customize), I have never had any parts seem lacking... Except for graphics cards. They have a very bad habit of giving you shitty graphics cards if you don't watch which model you're getting. Even then, you're not going to get an amazing graphics card, but passable.
Overall I would say Macs are fantastic for people who want a computer that just works and does most everything well (except games, they've gotten better there but still). But for those who want a system that they can tinker and mess with, a Windows PC is totally the way to go.
This.
I don't want to tinker with my OS. I don't want to Frankenstein it and have to worry if drivers are going to play nice with each other. My MBP has never crashed on me since purchasing it in 2009 which is more than I can say for any previous windows machine I’ve used.
I don't want to tinker with my OS. I don't want to Frankenstein it and have to worry if drivers are going to play nice with each other. My MBP has never crashed on me since purchasing it in 2009 which is more than I can say for any previous windows machine I’ve used.
I took Quartz's meaning as not tinkering with the OS (Who does that anyway?), rather upgrading a Windows computer with a new video card, additional hard drives, memory, etc. My current PC has a new second internal hard drive. Just plug in hard drive and turn on computer. Windows recognises it straight away and assigns a Drive letter to it automatically.
Similar with new video card. Take out old video card, put new one in. Turn on computer. Windows detects new hardware and asks for driver. Insert CD that came with Video Card and follow on screen prompts. Everything just works.
Never had crashes on my XP or WIn 7 computers. I'd have to go back to the Win 98/ME days for that.
Are Mac components proprietary? Do they then cost full retail?
Or do you just plan on upgrading your Mac product every few years?
That's got to get really expensive.
I'd be interested to know what Mac users do if they want to upgrade with a second internal hard drive, better video card, etc. From the looks of the Mac computers you can't do it? That's got to be expensive having to buy new computers every few years.
I probably buy a new WIndows PC around 8-9 years. I just keep upgrading it with new hardware to the point I can't upgrade it anymore which has been around the 6-7 year mark. And then maybe one or two years later, will buy a new computer due to new games. If it wasn't for games, I wouldn't need to buy new computers so often. :P
New PC computer 2012, 2nd PC computer 2004, First PC computer 1995
I really would love to get a Macbook after being a lifelong PC desktop and laptop user, but I just cant justify the insane prices in the excess of over 1,000$ when my custom built PC and indeed laptop too is so much more powerful then any Mac, has no compatibility or hoop jumping to get software working and costs almost 90% less then a Mac.
@VampQueen31 I actually thought like you for years. I have been using Windows since the old Windows for Workgroups 3 days... Until deceber 2011, when I bought my current and first MacBook Pro.
The quality of the hardware is amazing and I can run Windows in it, so I get the best of both worlds. And I really liked the way OSX does some things. File Management is quite easier in OSX when compared to Windows, for instance.
Particularly I think the OS wars we see in forums are ridiculous. Each OS has its problems, each has a better design than other in some specific point. For instance I think the entire graphic driver situation in OSX is stupid. I get an amazingly higher FPS and quality image running a game in Windows when compared to the same game in OSX. Diablo 3 is a good recent example as I can easily run it at maximum quality if I run the Windows version installed in my Windows partition, but it slows to a crawl if I use the native OSX version at full quality.
Use whatever you feel most confortable with. There are no better or worse OS.
I have nothing against Apple products, I even have a Iphone and Ipad, and as I said I'd love to get a macbook to replace my PC Laptop (I'd never trade up my desktop for a mac, since I'd run into the driver issues alot being a gamer). However it just seems a bad value. For less then 500$ I managed an 8 gb, quadcore 3ghz and high end Geforce card which runs everything on the highest settings fluidly for not nearly as good hardware Apple wants over 1,000$ for the Mac stuff.
It just seems a bad value for a gamer, not to mention I dont really have 1,000$ to throw around needlessly when while Windows and system BIOS software arent as good as OSX, the hardware is better in my pc (I use Asus components, so the quality is good). I do hate windows (From 3 to 8) with the Value a PC has, i deal with my hate for windows.
You don't have to be mature to be an adult kiddo. I can buy booze and act like an asshole at the same time. The best of both worlds!
Your superiority complex is truly baffling. I'm 18, can I be above "kiddo" and ageism yet? No? I know you're half-joking, but it's not actually that funny, more annoying than anything.
I'd be interested to know what Mac users do if they want to upgrade with a second internal hard drive, better video card, etc. From the looks of the Mac computers you can't do it? That's got to be expensive having to buy new computers every few years.
I already answered this question: We don't have to. Plus, you answered your own question later by saying "If it wasn't for games, I wouldn't need to buy new computers so often. :P" Macs kinda suck at games. Put two and two together.
Now, if you ARE a tinkerer, and DO want to upgrade your computer often, and for some reason you still insist on getting a Mac, then you *can* get Mac towers that are completely upgradeable like any other computer.
Which means, if for some godawful reason you find yourself "needing" to upgrade something for your Mac, and yet you didn't get a tower, you are dumb anyway.
I already answered this question: We don't have to.
So if you don't have to upgrade any hardware and have a Mac from 2004, it will run the latest software? I would have thought there would be some hardware problems trying to run the latest software on an old computer with an old OS.
For example, I still have my 2004 XP PC, have only upgraded the Video card from 2008 and apps like 2007/2010 MS Office run perfectly on it as well. It also runs current games like World of Tanks.
I already answered this question: We don't have to.
So if you don't have to upgrade any hardware and have a Mac from 2004, it will run the latest software? I would have thought there would be some hardware problems trying to run the latest software on an old computer with an old OS.
For example, I still have my 2004 XP PC, have only upgraded the Video card from 2008 and apps like 2007/2010 MS Office run perfectly on it as well. It also runs current games like World of Tanks.
Yes. Mac software changes happen pretty rarely, thankfully. Mac OS X was the first huge update that outdated everything, which happened in 2001. Another major change was the transition to Intel-based processors which happened in 2006. That didn't outdate everything thankfully, for a few years there developers kept supporting the old Macs, and so did Apple until ... quote "July 20, 2011: The release of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion formally ends Apple's support of PowerPC-based software." So even though they were pushing Intel-based software hard, they still supported those who stayed with their PowerPC-based stuff until 2011 apparently. There hasn't been a major change since.
Your superiority complex is truly baffling. I'm 18, can I be above "kiddo" and ageism yet? No? I know you're half-joking, but it's not actually that funny, more annoying than anything.
Christ, Mac users are so thin skinned... Alright how about this one then. I'm an adult, I have job. I need a real computer that can handle advanced CAD (computer assisted design) software. There is no Mac on the market that has a dedicated CAD graphics card, only PC's have that. And the software doesn't exist for OSX anyway, likely because Mac's tend to lag behind PC's in performance, and large CAD projects can be quite intensive. Without a computer that can handle this, I can kiss my career in engineering goodbye. Is that a more valid reason, sir?
Your superiority complex is truly baffling. I'm 18, can I be above "kiddo" and ageism yet? No? I know you're half-joking, but it's not actually that funny, more annoying than anything.
Christ, Mac users are so thin skinned... Alright how about this one then. I'm an adult, I have job. I need a real computer that can handle advanced CAD (computer assisted design) software. There is no Mac on the market that has a dedicated CAD graphics card, only PC's have that. And the software doesn't exist for OSX anyway, likely because Mac's tend to lag behind PC's in performance, and large CAD projects can be quite intensive. Without a computer that can handle this, I can kiss my career in engineering goodbye. Is that a more valid reason, sir?
What exactly did my last post even have to do with Macs? I found what you said to be disrespectful to me and ageist. My last reply had nothing to do with your original statement at all. On the contrary, I figured you probably had a very good reason to not be using Macs, like you just supplied, which, while unrelated, I do appreciate, thanks. If you read my other comments in this thread, you would see that I am more than reasonable about that, I'm not the stereotypical "MACS ARE BEAST AT EVERYTHING" moron that you assume me to be. You probably didn't read that, which is fine, considering they weren't addressed to you, so I understand that.
But then you just went filling in blanks. I called you out on the note that I found your second comment to be ageist and disrespectful, and now you go blaming my "thin skin" on being a Mac user, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Why is it that you are just trying to categorize me? Is that how you treat everyone? It's downright hurtful, man. All I wanted was an apology, why are you creating an argument?
Nothing like a good windows vs OSX pissing contest. /popcorn
But ... this doesn't have anything to do with that anymore. I'm so confused. ._.; I'm fighting with this guy over his blatant ageism, it has nothing to do with computers anymore. Is there something I'm missing?
Nar I'm just being a troll and not contributing in any way, to be honest I only read half the thread. I thought you'd see that Quartz, you seem to get the rest of my comments
Nar I'm just being a troll and not contributing in any way, to be honest I only read half the thread. I thought you'd see that Quartz, you seem to get the rest of my comments
Haha sorry, you're right, I'm just heightened right now because I've been misunderstood as per usual. (Super easy to be misunderstood on the internet when you can't see someone's face, or hear their tone) Good to hear I'm not missing anything. Your comment was pretty funny though lol, "/popcorn" is a classic. :P
"Big Bill Hell's! Home of challenge pissing! That's right, challenge pissing! How does it work? If you can piss six feet in the air straight up, and not get wet, you get no down payment!! This deal ends the moment you write us a check!"
But then you just went filling in blanks. I called you out on the note that I found your second comment to be ageist and disrespectful, and now you go blaming my "thin skin" on being a Mac user, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Why is it that you are just trying to categorize me? Is that how you treat everyone? It's downright hurtful, man. All I wanted was an apology, why are you creating an argument?
Son, when you call me immature the most likely outcome is that I will reply with an ageist statement.
As for me calling you thin skinned, that is because in my experience Mac users tend to be thin skinned. You may be too young to remember it, but Mac used to be a very narrow niche product (and it still is to an extent) and it's users tended to be quite zealous in their protection of their beloved Mac, and it was quite obvious that Mac users considered themselves "superior" to PC users. I mean, Apple calls it's tech support department the "genius bar", and the staff "geniuses", some of this mentality still remains. And clearly those people are not geniuses, I walk in and they can't even help me solve a simple differential equation...
This is an experience I've had since before you were born, ever since I first laid my hands on a PC. So to old man like myself, claiming that Mac users are thin skinned is just a product of years of experience, so forgive me kiddo, when I fall back on my age old prejudice, I can't help it. Please forgive my transgression.
and for your other questions, its actually easy to open your Mac. I have opened up my Macbook Pro twice now, once to put bigger ram in it, and the other time to check for damage when I dropped my laptop (btw it was completely ok, just a little dent). There are just a couple of screws on the bottom of the laptop that you unscrew to take the cover off. All you need is a mini screwdriver set, and you need to ground yourself somehow before you begin working on it.
And as for running programs and file management I would pit my Laptop against any of your Custom rigs.
I'd never buy a mac as it is just a PC with an apple on it that you pay twice as much for. About the same goes for alienware actually. I wouldn't mind using a mac though most of the interface annoys me and would probably have it dual boot into windows most of the time for game compatibility. So nothing wrong with mac just that apple being greedy and really good at marketing!
I've been dragging my feet on building a PC. I preloaded BG:EE and it's provided all the motivation I need. Any tips or tricks to building a rig? This is my first attempt at it.
But then you just went filling in blanks. I called you out on the note that I found your second comment to be ageist and disrespectful, and now you go blaming my "thin skin" on being a Mac user, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Why is it that you are just trying to categorize me? Is that how you treat everyone? It's downright hurtful, man. All I wanted was an apology, why are you creating an argument?
Son, when you call me immature the most likely outcome is that I will reply with an ageist statement.
As for me calling you thin skinned, that is because in my experience Mac users tend to be thin skinned. You may be too young to remember it, but Mac used to be a very narrow niche product (and it still is to an extent) and it's users tended to be quite zealous in their protection of their beloved Mac, and it was quite obvious that Mac users considered themselves "superior" to PC users. I mean, Apple calls it's tech support department the "genius bar", and the staff "geniuses", some of this mentality still remains. And clearly those people are not geniuses, I walk in and they can't even help me solve a simple differential equation...
This is an experience I've had since before you were born, ever since I first laid my hands on a PC. So to old man like myself, claiming that Mac users are thin skinned is just a product of years of experience, so forgive me kiddo, when I fall back on my age old prejudice, I can't help it. Please forgive my transgression.
Oh, and PC's are better than Macs...
Here's what I got: Kiddo blah blah blah, more stuff about Macs and PCs that I was trying to make clear *I don't care and I'm not arguing over*, blah blah son you may not remember this because you're soooooooo young, my prejudice is justified I can't help it, blah blah semi-legitimate apology, oh you don't like ageism? here have another gallon or so of it.
Don't get me wrong. I read your post in great detail, 3 times or so. For one, yes I remember when Mac was a niche problem who the hell doesn't, I would have to be like 12 to not remember that. But I suppose for all you know I could be twelve. What you don't like my ageism, son? Kiddo? You are just a big bully.
From what I can see, all you really care about here is debating about Macs and PCs, you really couldn't care less that you offended me on a personal level. I guess it's a good thing you're an engineer and not a psychologist, but still. As Aldeth Sashenstar would say, "learn some manners, brute."
I've been dragging my feet on building a PC. I preloaded BG:EE and it's provided all the motivation I need. Any tips or tricks to building a rig? This is my first attempt at it.
The building itself is easy, slightly more complex and expensive than lego really. Just make sure to not wear clothes that easily get statically charged. Never used one myself but anti static wrist bands are recommended and can usually be bought cheaply from whatever place you buy the computer parts from.
The harder part is to choose what hardware to buy after what you need and can afford. As long as we are talking a computer for a normal user I'd say you can cheap out a bit on ram, motherboard, hdd and the case. CPU, GPU(if you like fancy new games) and PSU are where you might want to spend a bit extra.
A cheap low quality PSU can fry your computer if you are unlucky but worst of all is that an unstable flow of electricity can make your computer crash randomly for years and most would never guess this was the source of the problem. I'd say around 1$ for each 10W on the psu would give you a decent psu and most computers would run fine on a 500W for years.
CPU's are really powerful these days and I doubt most people who buy a mid range cpu will even use it fully in the next few years. Bought a i7 2700k last year and apart from BF3 I haven't even seen a game use over 20% cpu. Might also want to spend a bit extra on a good cpu cooler since the stock ones tend to be somewhat bad and will easily cause high sound or overheating issues in a case with bad airflow.
Oh and the best tip is really to check online for reviews before you decide on what to get, personally I look for all negative feedback on forums and such. My last motherboard had a user where it actually caught on fire, my motherboard still works fine 7 years later so need to be aware all kinds of freakish things can happen without making all of them bad.
Got plenty of building experience but am in no way a professional but do feel free to pm me if you want to ask anything more.
Comments
Also, from my experience with Macs; being all-in-one units (except their towers, which are actually easy to customize), I have never had any parts seem lacking... Except for graphics cards. They have a very bad habit of giving you shitty graphics cards if you don't watch which model you're getting. Even then, you're not going to get an amazing graphics card, but passable.
I don't want to tinker with my OS. I don't want to Frankenstein it and have to worry if drivers are going to play nice with each other. My MBP has never crashed on me since purchasing it in 2009 which is more than I can say for any previous windows machine I’ve used.
Similar with new video card. Take out old video card, put new one in. Turn on computer. Windows detects new hardware and asks for driver. Insert CD that came with Video Card and follow on screen prompts. Everything just works.
Never had crashes on my XP or WIn 7 computers. I'd have to go back to the Win 98/ME days for that. I'd be interested to know what Mac users do if they want to upgrade with a second internal hard drive, better video card, etc. From the looks of the Mac computers you can't do it? That's got to be expensive having to buy new computers every few years.
I probably buy a new WIndows PC around 8-9 years. I just keep upgrading it with new hardware to the point I can't upgrade it anymore which has been around the 6-7 year mark. And then maybe one or two years later, will buy a new computer due to new games. If it wasn't for games, I wouldn't need to buy new computers so often. :P
New PC computer 2012, 2nd PC computer 2004, First PC computer 1995
The quality of the hardware is amazing and I can run Windows in it, so I get the best of both worlds. And I really liked the way OSX does some things. File Management is quite easier in OSX when compared to Windows, for instance.
Particularly I think the OS wars we see in forums are ridiculous. Each OS has its problems, each has a better design than other in some specific point. For instance I think the entire graphic driver situation in OSX is stupid. I get an amazingly higher FPS and quality image running a game in Windows when compared to the same game in OSX. Diablo 3 is a good recent example as I can easily run it at maximum quality if I run the Windows version installed in my Windows partition, but it slows to a crawl if I use the native OSX version at full quality.
Use whatever you feel most confortable with. There are no better or worse OS.
I have nothing against Apple products, I even have a Iphone and Ipad, and as I said I'd love to get a macbook to replace my PC Laptop (I'd never trade up my desktop for a mac, since I'd run into the driver issues alot being a gamer). However it just seems a bad value. For less then 500$ I managed an 8 gb, quadcore 3ghz and high end Geforce card which runs everything on the highest settings fluidly for not nearly as good hardware Apple wants over 1,000$ for the Mac stuff.
It just seems a bad value for a gamer, not to mention I dont really have 1,000$ to throw around needlessly when while Windows and system BIOS software arent as good as OSX, the hardware is better in my pc (I use Asus components, so the quality is good). I do hate windows (From 3 to 8) with the Value a PC has, i deal with my hate for windows.
If I still was a heavy gamer I probably wouldn't have bought a Mac for personal use, mainly if I liked FPS that have some really heavy requirements.
At least i can play Skyrim and Fallout 3/New Vegas with all the bells and whistles in my Bootcamp partition, so I'm happy
Now, if you ARE a tinkerer, and DO want to upgrade your computer often, and for some reason you still insist on getting a Mac, then you *can* get Mac towers that are completely upgradeable like any other computer.
Which means, if for some godawful reason you find yourself "needing" to upgrade something for your Mac, and yet you didn't get a tower, you are dumb anyway.
For example, I still have my 2004 XP PC, have only upgraded the Video card from 2008 and apps like 2007/2010 MS Office run perfectly on it as well. It also runs current games like World of Tanks.
Alright how about this one then. I'm an adult, I have job. I need a real computer that can handle advanced CAD (computer assisted design) software. There is no Mac on the market that has a dedicated CAD graphics card, only PC's have that. And the software doesn't exist for OSX anyway, likely because Mac's tend to lag behind PC's in performance, and large CAD projects can be quite intensive. Without a computer that can handle this, I can kiss my career in engineering goodbye. Is that a more valid reason, sir?
But then you just went filling in blanks. I called you out on the note that I found your second comment to be ageist and disrespectful, and now you go blaming my "thin skin" on being a Mac user, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Why is it that you are just trying to categorize me? Is that how you treat everyone? It's downright hurtful, man. All I wanted was an apology, why are you creating an argument?
"Big Bill Hell's! Home of challenge pissing! That's right, challenge pissing! How does it work? If you can piss six feet in the air straight up, and not get wet, you get no down payment!! This deal ends the moment you write us a check!"
As for me calling you thin skinned, that is because in my experience Mac users tend to be thin skinned. You may be too young to remember it, but Mac used to be a very narrow niche product (and it still is to an extent) and it's users tended to be quite zealous in their protection of their beloved Mac, and it was quite obvious that Mac users considered themselves "superior" to PC users. I mean, Apple calls it's tech support department the "genius bar", and the staff "geniuses", some of this mentality still remains. And clearly those people are not geniuses, I walk in and they can't even help me solve a simple differential equation...
This is an experience I've had since before you were born, ever since I first laid my hands on a PC. So to old man like myself, claiming that Mac users are thin skinned is just a product of years of experience, so forgive me kiddo, when I fall back on my age old prejudice, I can't help it. Please forgive my transgression.
Oh, and PC's are better than Macs...
and for your other questions, its actually easy to open your Mac. I have opened up my Macbook Pro twice now, once to put bigger ram in it, and the other time to check for damage when I dropped my laptop (btw it was completely ok, just a little dent). There are just a couple of screws on the bottom of the laptop that you unscrew to take the cover off. All you need is a mini screwdriver set, and you need to ground yourself somehow before you begin working on it.
And as for running programs and file management I would pit my Laptop against any of your Custom rigs.
I wouldn't mind using a mac though most of the interface annoys me and would probably have it dual boot into windows most of the time for game compatibility. So nothing wrong with mac just that apple being greedy and really good at marketing!
Don't get me wrong. I read your post in great detail, 3 times or so. For one, yes I remember when Mac was a niche problem who the hell doesn't, I would have to be like 12 to not remember that. But I suppose for all you know I could be twelve. What you don't like my ageism, son? Kiddo? You are just a big bully.
From what I can see, all you really care about here is debating about Macs and PCs, you really couldn't care less that you offended me on a personal level. I guess it's a good thing you're an engineer and not a psychologist, but still. As Aldeth Sashenstar would say, "learn some manners, brute."
Peace.
The harder part is to choose what hardware to buy after what you need and can afford.
As long as we are talking a computer for a normal user I'd say you can cheap out a bit on ram, motherboard, hdd and the case. CPU, GPU(if you like fancy new games) and PSU are where you might want to spend a bit extra.
A cheap low quality PSU can fry your computer if you are unlucky but worst of all is that an unstable flow of electricity can make your computer crash randomly for years and most would never guess this was the source of the problem. I'd say around 1$ for each 10W on the psu would give you a decent psu and most computers would run fine on a 500W for years.
CPU's are really powerful these days and I doubt most people who buy a mid range cpu will even use it fully in the next few years. Bought a i7 2700k last year and apart from BF3 I haven't even seen a game use over 20% cpu.
Might also want to spend a bit extra on a good cpu cooler since the stock ones tend to be somewhat bad and will easily cause high sound or overheating issues in a case with bad airflow.
Oh and the best tip is really to check online for reviews before you decide on what to get, personally I look for all negative feedback on forums and such. My last motherboard had a user where it actually caught on fire, my motherboard still works fine 7 years later so need to be aware all kinds of freakish things can happen without making all of them bad.
Got plenty of building experience but am in no way a professional but do feel free to pm me if you want to ask anything more.