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should we keep the old 'roll your stats' feature?

solidbonessolidbones Member Posts: 11
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
this feature is the one thing I didn't like about BG. Rerolling stats either make me feel like I'm cheating, or that I'm really gimped.
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  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Then roll once and play? Rolls are central to the game and removing would cause much hate and discontent, methinks.
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    Same. I don't know why but I enjoy the character creation process a lot. I still remember the roll I finally went with in my first BG1 playthrough 12 years ago... 18 17 18 15 18 13 (before reassignment). I've never been able to top that one since (that was for a Ranger, which I believe is the easiest class to roll good stats for because they have a high floor on 4 of the stats).
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I wouldn't mind if they added additional options. Like, if they kept the rolling as is but also added point buy or picking a pre-determined set of numbers. Or even gave more narrowly defined rolling rules. For D&D games, my group tends to use 4d6, reroll 1's til they're not 1's, then drop the lowest. Then do that for each stat and arrange as you please. Tends to give really high powered characters but, it's D&D so...
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Hey, that's nothing.

    One of my current DMs uses a "roll 24d6, reroll 1s, keep the highest 18 and assign as desired to each of the six ability scores up to a maximum of 18 in any one score".

    I wouldn't mind a difficulty setting at character creation that changes the lower limit on your ability score total; if you have it set to Easy, for instance, it will reroll anything with a total number of points less than (throwing out a random number here) 80. Normal? 75. Hard? 70. Hardcore? 70, and you can't rearrange the points.

    I think the rolling mechanism is important, because in some cases it means you'll literally never roll the same character twice; and in others it means rerolling over and over again just to get that last 18.

    The alternative, of course, is to decide how many points you want to use for your build, use the Ctrl+Shift+8 cheat to set everything to 18, and then adjust them based on what you want. (This way you can more carefully decide how many points to use if you want a character with a specific build.)
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Wow that is pretty hardcore rolling hehehe.

    More and more I find myself preferring Point Buy games, (not for stats but for everything, like BESM2e) just because I prefer my randomness in the game, not when making my character. Plus it sidesteps a lot of problems when anyone can be a healer, etc.
  • AnOnionAnOnion Member Posts: 30
    I actually didn't realize that you could reassign points for several years after I started playing, and I still don't really like to rearrange the points rolled.

    Keep the randomness in, imo.
  • KyzarinKyzarin Member Posts: 21
    I'd say give players a choice in game between rolling stats (3d6 or 4d6, rerolling 1's and removing the lowest die in the background), or 32 point build like NWN and similar games (I think NWN2 was 32, I don't recall). That way, people can reroll to their heart's content or quickly put together a character depending on preference.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    @Kyzarin

    You'd easily get way better ability scores by rolling than the point buy system. You'd have to be very unlucky to get a worse roll than the stats you'd get from point buy. Depending on how you spend your points, you'd get a point total somewhere in the mid-70s, which is a pretty terrible roll.

    The point buy system would be terrible for a game based on 2E. The only reason it works in 3E, and games based on 3E (NWN, IWD2), is because you gain a point every 4 levels. If you used that system in 2E, you'd create some pretty crappy characters, since the ability scores will pretty much never go up under normal circumstances. There's also the predetermined array system, but that has the same shortfalls as the point buy system. A solution would be to offer more points available to distribute, but the problem then is that the number of points would be arbitrary to what the devs come up with and won't be based on any D&D rules.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    It depends on how it was calibrated. You could make it a much more generous point buy to reflect an hour's effort rolling if you wanted to.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    CaptRory said:

    It depends on how it was calibrated. You could make it a much more generous point buy to reflect an hour's effort rolling if you wanted to.

    That's pretty much what my last sentence refers to.

  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    I hope you're joking.

    That's the single most enjoyable part of the game.

    Ok, I might be exaggerating, but still...
  • TetraploidTetraploid Member Posts: 252
    I like the rolling. It feels more realistic than everyone having an identical stat total. Some playthroughs, your character might be a little stronger or a little weaker than the last time you played, even if you have the same class, and I like that variation.

    Actually, what I would really like is if you had an option to roll your stats before picking a class - I think it would be more realistic for your character to choose their profession based on what they are good at rather than the other way around!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    I doubt they'll remove cheats that were coded into the original game.
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    Every time I play I reroll until my eyes bleed.

    About 8 years ago I once got a fighter (that I dualed into a mage) statroll with:

    Str: 18/90
    Dex: 18
    Con: 18
    Int: 18
    Wis: 16
    Cha: 16

    (this was after adjusting stats, it was like 17/17/16/18/18/something.

    Never gotten it that good since. I wish I'd take a screenshot!
  • TetraploidTetraploid Member Posts: 252
    @colonel_burger That's insane! But then, I guess CHARNAME is the son/daughter of a God...
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    I can't wait to start rolling again, I haven't played BG1 in over a year. The anticipation is driving me crazy!
  • KhamillKhamill Member Posts: 226
    Agreed, Rolling is nearly like a separate game, it has to stay!
  • LockLock Member Posts: 84
    Tetraploid said:

    Actually, what I would really like is if you had an option to roll your stats before picking a class - I think it would be more realistic for your character to choose their profession based on what they are good at rather than the other way around!

    I actually agree and I'm fairly sure those were the standard rules of the 2E ruleset, however this was something that succumbed to video-gaming convention.
    colonel_burger said:


    it was like 17/17/16/18/18/something.
    Never gotten it that good since. I wish I'd take a screenshot!

    That's an amazing roll! A player in another thread today also said he once got a 104, but that was with a ranger (much easier). The highest I've ever gotten was 102, which is also ridiculous as often the highest you'll get after hours is 96 or 97 (depending on the class). I originally thought I was probably weird with my enjoyment of rerolling for hours, but when I asked the question (am I weird) in this slightly older thread on rerolling it appeared that most others really enjoyed it too:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4246/time-spent-rolling-at-character-creation
  • sesobebosesobebo Member Posts: 10
    ummm.... yes?
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    @lock I must have replayed BG and BG2 all the way through at least 15 times each (not an exaggeration), however I still think I've spent more time rolling for stats than I spent actually playing through the content :) I must have been a slot junky in a previous incarnation.
  • kiroskiros Member Posts: 119
    edited September 2012
    There's a gazillion threads about this topic and each time it starts off with "I'm so tired of re rolling for hours upon hours, I wish there was an easier way. Let's implement (name stupid feature) to make it easier for us to get maxed out stats."

    Firstly, Baldur's gate has never utilized a point-buy system nor should it.
    This is not Neverwinter Nights.

    Secondly, rolling for you're attributes takes time and patience so you feel much more invested in that character. It doesn't take long to visually add and subtract the stats in front of you and makes it harder to spam that re roll button trying to obtain Superman i.e 18/18/18/18.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    @kiros Well said.
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    Apparently Oasis were big fans of character creation in Baldur's Gate. It's what inspired this lyric:

    You gotta roll with it
    You gotta take your time ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQzm0WlRcg
  • etaglocetagloc Member Posts: 349
    edited September 2012
    why remove it.. yes I agree that it does feel i little like cheating.. just add another feature.. . i think tempel of Elemental evil had a choice options. with point system or rerolls
    adding that option would make it better.
    dont want it... well dont use it then.

    @kiros - If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    so if i missunderstand you correctly. you think there should be no BG EE ; )
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    To keep yourself occupied when rolling, keep track of how many times the BGM loops. (It fades out at the end of the track before it restarts)

    If you don't pay close enough attention you can miss a great roll. It's concentration like that that you need to psyche yourself up for a fresh playthrough.
  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    This is what they'd do if BGEE was available on consoles = pure evil
  • kiroskiros Member Posts: 119
    edited September 2012
    @etagloc
    Touché ;)

    However, I believe Trent is doing the best he can to keep to the original and not modify too many elements of the game.
    Having nice visual aesthetics (UI, High resolution) is not much of an issue, start messing around with character creation and you'll have a lot of pissed off fans :/

    We all have fond memories of hitting that re roll button, let's see those memories get imbedded in a new generation of gamers.
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