Unnatural Creatures

Raduziel

So, what are these exactly?

I suppose Undead and Golem are in that list. But what else?

I want to know when to change from the Mighty Oak to crush things better with Jaheira.

Thanks!

JuliusBorisov

In PnP unnatural creatures would be creatures that don't exist in the real world (our world).

As for BG, I believe the bonus +3 works when attacking creatures of type "monster," "undead," and "giant humanoid", i.e. everything except humanoids.

BTW, @CamDawg , how about implementing this into BGEE, since the patch 1.3 went live many months ago

CamDawg said:

BGEE already adds a pair of clubs--Night Club in Baldur's Gate and Mighty Oak to the aforementioned Shadow Archdruid. Finding a home for the Root is still a good idea, especially since it'll be on the restored import lists when the 1.3 patch goes live for BGIIEE.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34780/add-club-1-3-vs-unnatural-creatures-as-reward-for-assisting-the-dryad-of-the-cloudpeaks

Raduziel

So the +3 bonus would apply to pretty much everything, am I right?

And is it implemented in the game engine? Make the game recognize every kind of creature you're trying to kill sounds very tricky to me.

Tresset

bengoshi said:

In PnP unnatural creatures would be creatures that don't exist in the real world (our world).

As for BG, I believe the bonus +3 works when attacking creatures of type "monster," "undead," and "giant humanoid", i.e. everything except humanoids.

Everything except "humanoids" and "animals" actually. Keep in mind that creature classifications are not always intuitive (the demonknight is a humanoid and werewolves/wolfweres are also humanoid for instance). Another way to think of it: If the creature is immune to the spells Charm Person or Mammal, Hold Animal, and Hold Person (based on its race alone of course, not counting natural immunities to such conditions) then it will take extra damage from the club.

Raduziel

Well, that's one way to analyze but not a practical one.

Is there a list somewhere?

The AD&D Monstrous Manual explains this?

CamDawg

There's not a list unfortunately; trying to explain it gets a bit into the weeds. It's also a classification that's purely internal to the game, so the manual's not a lot of help either.

Every creature has some broad classifications such as race, class, gender, allegiance, etc. The club's bonuses target the fuzziest classification of them all: 'general'. Undead is self-explanatory; giant humanoid tends to run through expected creatures like giants and ogres and some you might not expect such as golems and elementals (including djinni). Monster is a very broad class covering everything from jellies and spiders through dragons, celestials, and demons.

Raduziel

I love when the blue guys answer.

Thanks @CamDawg .

Elementals are classified as unnatural? Really? That was unexpected.

There's anywhere in the game's code that I can mess to bring some enlightenment into this question?

CamDawg

Oh, and I completely didn't address the bit actually asked directly of me.

bengoshi said:

CamDawg said:

BGEE already adds a pair of clubs--Night Club in Baldur's Gate and Mighty Oak to the aforementioned Shadow Archdruid. Finding a home for the Root is still a good idea, especially since it'll be on the restored import lists when the 1.3 patch goes live for BGIIEE.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34780/add-club-1-3-vs-unnatural-creatures-as-reward-for-assisting-the-dryad-of-the-cloudpeaks

Yeah, I'd better file a ticket before I forget.

edit: logged as #19838.

CamDawg

Raduziel said:

There's anywhere in the game's code that I can mess to bring some enlightenment into this question?

Sure. Fire up an editor such as Near Infinity or DLTCEP and you can open any creature file and look for the 'general' field (at byte 0x271). Root uses six EFF files (one thac0, one damage for each of the three generals it targets) to provide the bonuses.

General is a bit of an odd duck when it comes to targeting. I personally only use it for undead, since it's well-defined and reliable there. Otherwise I'll target something else such as race or class since they're a little more consistent.