If people would just stop having Baldurs gate´s system (d&d) in mind when judging some of the mechanics PoE is using there wouldnt be much of a problem. Obsidian didnt say it´s exactly like the old Infinity games... it should have been clear from the start because PoE is using it´s OWN rules and copy paste of the d&d mechanics wouldnt be that new or innovative. People are bored of all the FPS clones etc. and when a game tries something new people start complaining of new mechanics... I think some guys just dont know what they realy want and maybe should just relax and let the devs do their work. Being all against the evil publishers but acting in the same kind of way is just weird to me. But at least we now witness the same personality big bosses have and their little offsprings in gaming. Players who think they have all the knowledge about development and they are the guys who should do the rules...
And i bet if these loud people would come close to real development we all would never ever play any game in the future anymore because they have no clue and are just theoretical wannabe academics of gaming...
I mean, the modscene is exactly for this being created by people who want to change things. And they do, they dont talk but they do, they work to make things different. Imo many people are just lazy clowns with lots of "ideas" but cant discipline themself to work on something. They just talk and talk and never do something worth to mention. Thanks to the who***re attentioning trend of today where you dont have to do anything except to pretend.
And i´m so sick and tired of these people that i would never shake them their hands but would ridicule them in public space. No, because i regard them as wannabe clowns with a voice. If i could i would destroy their computers and give them a soccer ball instead so we all dont have to be associated with them somehow.
I agree with you, in the end, @NWN_babaYaga, even if I would have said it in a more relaxed way.
Anyway: I posted a couple of previously unreported bugs in the previous weeks and it looks like they were useful to Obsidian devs: I know what a beta is and for me it's fine how it's going on. Lots of haters but also lots of users who post useful reports and I believe that in the end the final result will be good. I still believe that the beta process will continue for the next 5 months, without a first final release before February 2015, and the later the better for me: I can't wait to play the game but I prefer to have the most complete and polished build they could release, also I have many other games to play in my spare time.
There are a lot of people involved here, with their different opinions, and it's impossible to please everyone. Let them just do whatever they do and we can all be pretty sure most people are going to be happy all the same.
i spoke as a backer of a game in support of a company i dismissed back then but changed my pov due to this kickstarter campaign. It´s like you see people with the only reason there to throw dirt now and dont hesitate to spread their negativity everywhere they can. I just dont see any reason to judge something when you dont have the full picture of it and people should know it. If not there is a problem with education or common sense or whatever but this stupid and childish mindset is poisonous. These people are like flies you just cant get rid of and their memories are from monday to tuesday and then tilt error. Even you take them to the original kickstarter announcement they just DONT understand what obsidian said followed by all their updates! And thats why i´m so sick of them. If you ever had someone in school who just couldnt stop asking the teacher the same question on and on, everyone with a brain would just stop talking but no... we had a good way to calm them down after school. But it´s not possible via the internet. Well, i just think it´s unfair and indecent to the guys who are working on the game. People demand pollitical correctness and so on but to bash and insult developers seems to be ok and the demanding of the impossible trough bashing the existing content is more dirty kind of an insult as to say it out just clear like, hey a********* blah blah and so on.
Ok, thats all. I look forward to Pillars and hope the people who have spend their money on the game and are now totaly broken will be haunted for ever because of a game we supported in order to also show the publishers, no we dont need you to create a great game of epic scale!
It includes not only fixes but also new features that sound promising and in one way or another reflect players' suggestions (it's a very good sign):
1. There're changes in the character creation process including an updated stats allocation system (default at 10, lower gives penalties, higher gives bonuses). To me, an IE fan, it suits much more this way!
Might: Damage and Healing Every point of Might over 10 increases a character's base Damage and Healing by 2% (penalties if under 10). Constitution: Stamina and Health Every point of Constitution over 10 increases the character's base Endurance and Health by 2% (penalties if under 10). Dexterity: Action Speed Every point of Dexterity over 10 increases Action Speed by 2% (penalties if under 10). Perception: Accuracy and Range Every point of Perception over 10 increases Accuracy by 1 and Range (for non-melee) by 5% (penalties if under 10). Intellect: AoE Size and Deflection Every point of Intellect over 10 increases the character's AoE sizes by 5% and Deflection by 1 (penalties if under 10). Resolve: Concentration and Duration Every point of Resolve over 10 increases a character's Concentration by 3% and Durations by 5% (penalties if under 10).
2. Stealth revision:
The new stealth system relies on the distance of a scouting character from an NPC to determine how quickly the creature will enter Alert and Combat states. A comparison of characters' individual Stealth skill ratings and creatures' levels modifies this rate. N.b.: A character that does not have LoS on the creature is not considered to be "inside" their radius.
When characters enter the scouting state, they gain a Stealth Meter. Currently, it's simply a solid circle completely filled with color (green or, if in colorblind mode, blue). This is a basic implementation and the art will change. Every NPC in the world has one of five stealth detection ratings (from Oblivious to Supernatural) that correspond to radii in the game.
When a scouting character gets into a creature's stealth detection range, their Stealth Meter will start filling from green/blue to yellow. This informs the player of how much time they have before the creature will enter Alert and Combat states. If the meter fills completely yellow, the creature will move up to a constant-defined max distance toward the character (e.g. 3m). At the same time, the yellow meter will begin to fill red. If the meter reaches full red, the scouting state is dropped, the character is detected, and hostile creatures enter Combat.
We will have a base rate at which these fills occur, but they can be modified by two elements: 1) the relationship between the character's Stealth and the target's level 2) the character's proximity to the target within the radius. The two modifiers both directly multiply the standard rate. While this system is fully implemented, it has not been tuned and does not have final art.
3. Stamina is finally called Endurance. Yeah, baby!
4. Now, when a character receives damage, it's applied equally to Endurance and Health. Bingo!
According to the Devs, Max Endurance is multiplied by a factor determined by class to arrive at Max Health. This does mean that Health values are much higher than a traditional "D&D range", but in practice these values were already used in the background. In this update, when a character receives damage, it's applied equally to Endurance and Health.
Here are the current Endurance to Health multipliers for each class. "Front line" classes tend to have more Health as they are expected to be damaged and healed in combat with much greater frequency.
Indeed, a person can only redeem his Backer Beta Key if this person has purchased the Backer Beta or if it is included in the Kickstarter tier (all tiers of $110.00 or above).
But I don't see anything wrong in it. You've paid to support the project and what can be better in supporting the game than finding bugs/glitches and reporting them and/or trying the game's features and giving them your review?
The idea of paying for a beta is a very stupid thing. When i buy a product i dont buy it for being disfunctional. But spoiled gamers today buy anything and parents dont give a ... you know. And this mentality leads to money money money in ma mind thing in the devs thinking and they abuse it. I would call it abuse of stupidty of a majority of gamers. Back in da day i bought for a full game not some buggy mess or for testing. And today i regret that we copied to much of the cool games back then but not today (we maybe guilty too that some studios had to close in the time of c64 and amiga and early PC) . Because guys back then were honest and cool and today... well! I have no real respect for the most guys anymore. Why should i ?
There are exceptions sure. And most of the cool guys dont make it or have a hard time. Maybe they dont sell out that much and have the mindset of a gaming dev spirit that somehow died.
I also paid for a complete game already so no need for me personaly to add more. I paid and wait until it´s delivered so to say. That would be common sense imo!
Is it true that people needed to pay to actually participate in a beta?
Anyway, the more i hear about PoE, the worse and worse it becomes.
You don't pay to participate in the beta testing. If you've bought the game itself they give you access to the beta too, if you want to help them test it.
Indeed, a person can only redeem his Backer Beta Key if this person has purchased the Backer Beta or if it is included in the Kickstarter tier (all tiers of $110.00 or above).
But I don't see anything wrong in it. You've paid to support the project and what can be better in supporting the game than finding bugs/glitches and reporting them and/or trying the game's features and giving them your review?
You shouldn't have to pay extra, when you're spoiling yourself ahead of time. Beta is a tedious process that requires testing all the time for a lot of stuff, and has nothing to do with enjoyment like the one you get from playing the game, as in an actual finished product.
People are free to do whatever they want, but this policy is something that would be enough for me to blacklist a company.
Reviewers, testers, are getting payed for what they do. They don't pay. Making sure the product is of adequate quality is not enjoyment of the game released and bug-free.
When you're making a game and ask for people to support you, it's absurd to expect people to pay you extra for that kind of work.
It just boggles the mind.
@typo_tilly i actually backed them as well. I certainly don't agree with having to pay, to test though. Volunteering is one thing. But this...
I don't see the particular appeal of paying extra to test a product, it certainly wasn't my motivation to back at the tier I did. However, some people pledged enough and are willing to help donate their time to test the game (or other things such as IWD:EE or BG:EE patches) for free, and suggesting that they are stupid for doing so as in @NWN_babaYaga's comment seems a bit ridiculous:
The idea of paying for a beta is a very stupid thing. When i buy a product i dont buy it for being disfunctional. But spoiled gamers today buy anything and parents dont give a ... you know. And this mentality leads to money money money in ma mind thing in the devs thinking and they abuse it. I would call it abuse of stupidty of a majority of gamers. Back in da day i bought for a full game not some buggy mess or for testing...
Perhaps instead of insults you should be grateful that others care enough to donate their time to help out with projects that we all care about. As for the "spoiled gamers today buy anything and parents dont give a ...", I am fairly sure that a good number of people that pledge to these Kickstarter products are adults with their own income, some of which is expendable, and I doubt they need someone judging their purchasing or donation decisions for them.
Speaking of donations, I think a driving force for many of those that backed these projects (Pillars of Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Wasteland 2, etc.) was a desire to support the continued development of a style of entertainment that they really like, they weren't just duped into spending a bunch of money on pre-ordering a game. As for paying to beta test, it seems that there are tons of gamers who want to do so, and I'm certainly grateful for that, and I'm sure the developers are too.
if common sense is an insult to you ok. I havent changed my mind trough the "ages" just because others wants me to do it. Obsidian didnt need the money to complete the game they promised so thats why i made my point which is fixed
if common sense is an insult to you ok. I havent changed my mind trough the "ages" just because others wants me to do it. Obsidian didnt need the money to complete the game they promised so thats why i made my point which is fixed
The point stands, whether you like it or not, that the three games I mentioned wouldn't be released without the crowd funding model and the backers that chose to pledge their money (and in some cases, their time beta testing). So if you end up enjoying these games when you buy the finished product, you can feel free to insult all the people that made your enjoyment a reality, if that sort of thing makes you feel good. Common sense does not insult me, but suggesting that a large group of people are either stupid, spoiled children, or some combination thereof is clearly insulting. It is common sense to not bite the hand that feeds and, as I've said, you're doing just that when you hurl claims of stupidity at those that made the release of these games possible (assuming you intend to play them).
Please do tell me more, by the way, about the finances of Obsidian and how you're sure that they didn't need the money to make Pillars of Eternity. I suppose that's why they never use publishers as well? Oh wait... that's right, they do need to get money from somewhere. When that money is from a publisher, that publisher dictates the product which is to be released. With Kickstarter, the developers decide what the product will be and the fans then decide whether or not they will support it based on the pitch of the developers. If Obsidian could afford to publish all their own games, I'm sure they would, I imagine it would be quite lucrative. But if you want to believe that they're able to publish their games themselves and they just choose not to for some reason, and that they scammed all the backers, feel free, your point is fixed after all.
Honestly, if I found an awesome enough of a game out there, I'd put enough money to get to beta just to get to play the game early. I don't think it'd be some terrible violation of common sense in doing so.
People're just impatient when something comes out that they really want.
Is it already known how large the game world will be? For example, does it stretch over a whole planet with different climate zones? Or is it set in a specific continent? I'm afraid that I'm not that well informed about the specifics of PoE.
Yea I'm not big on the concept of paying to beta test, but there also is no need to be rude about the people who are willing to do that. In my case I have no problem with paying the same (or less than the retail price) to be a beta tester (or early access tester), its when it costs extra that I just wouldn't do it.
That said as others have pointed out this isn't even really a full beta (in the sense that it only represents part of the game). From the sounds of things it sounds more like paying extra to get access to the games demo months before the full game is released.
ok... i used the term "spoiled" gamers aka people and not the term people who just wanted to give obsidian more money in support of the further process. Thats a difference! Then i said this is stupidity, yes it´s stupid in the long run to throw money at anyone just because you have the money. A business that gets money for more or less nothing will abuse it... we live in a world where money rules it and only we customers can make a difference but ... no... we dont!
So if you are so sensitive and cant read what i write with common sense then thats your problem!
I didnt insulted the guys who supports obsidian for a reason that i share. But i have my oppinion and you dont change that with this whiny attitude Seriously... are you glued to the monitor with a pumping heart and gets offeneded by anything that is normal talk ?
I have praised obsidian for their kickstarter campaign but i also have a MIND of my own like anyone else what maybe could have been handled differently. Now feel free to interpret stuff into my words but dont mention me please cuz i´m tired of that stuff.
Is it already known how large the game world will be? For example, does it stretch over a whole planet with different climate zones? Or is it set in a specific continent? I'm afraid that I'm not that well informed about the specifics of PoE.
The release date of PoE has been pushed back to "early 2015" according to the Obsidian Forums.
I'm glad to see this, I had been a little worried that they might be trying to rush the release which could ultimately lead to a buggy game. As I understand it, Obsidian has quite the reputation for buggy releases so a continuation of that with a game where no publisher was forcing the release certainly wouldn't bode well for them. Hopefully they'll take all the time they need to release a polished and relatively bug-free game.
@NWN_babaYaga I don't see anyone but you here being whiny, offended, or rude. You call it an opinion, but you're calling us morons for having one on the opposite. That's not very nice.
Comments
And i bet if these loud people would come close to real development we all would never ever play any game in the future anymore because they have no clue and are just theoretical wannabe academics of gaming...
I mean, the modscene is exactly for this being created by people who want to change things. And they do, they dont talk but they do, they work to make things different. Imo many people are just lazy clowns with lots of "ideas" but cant discipline themself to work on something. They just talk and talk and never do something worth to mention. Thanks to the who***re attentioning trend of today where you dont have to do anything except to pretend.
And i´m so sick and tired of these people that i would never shake them their hands but would ridicule them in public space. No, because i regard them as wannabe clowns with a voice. If i could i would destroy their computers and give them a soccer ball instead so we all dont have to be associated with them somehow.
Anyway: I posted a couple of previously unreported bugs in the previous weeks and it looks like they were useful to Obsidian devs: I know what a beta is and for me it's fine how it's going on. Lots of haters but also lots of users who post useful reports and I believe that in the end the final result will be good.
I still believe that the beta process will continue for the next 5 months, without a first final release before February 2015, and the later the better for me: I can't wait to play the game but I prefer to have the most complete and polished build they could release, also I have many other games to play in my spare time.
Ok, thats all. I look forward to Pillars and hope the people who have spend their money on the game and are now totaly broken will be haunted for ever because of a game we supported in order to also show the publishers, no we dont need you to create a great game of epic scale!
It includes not only fixes but also new features that sound promising and in one way or another reflect players' suggestions (it's a very good sign):
1. There're changes in the character creation process including an updated stats allocation system (default at 10, lower gives penalties, higher gives bonuses). To me, an IE fan, it suits much more this way!
Might: Damage and Healing
Every point of Might over 10 increases a character's base Damage and Healing by 2% (penalties if under 10).
Constitution: Stamina and Health
Every point of Constitution over 10 increases the character's base Endurance and Health by 2% (penalties if under 10).
Dexterity: Action Speed
Every point of Dexterity over 10 increases Action Speed by 2% (penalties if under 10).
Perception: Accuracy and Range
Every point of Perception over 10 increases Accuracy by 1 and Range (for non-melee) by 5% (penalties if under 10).
Intellect: AoE Size and Deflection
Every point of Intellect over 10 increases the character's AoE sizes by 5% and Deflection by 1 (penalties if under 10).
Resolve: Concentration and Duration
Every point of Resolve over 10 increases a character's Concentration by 3% and Durations by 5% (penalties if under 10).
2. Stealth revision:
The new stealth system relies on the distance of a scouting character from an NPC to determine how quickly the creature will enter Alert and Combat states. A comparison of characters' individual Stealth skill ratings and creatures' levels modifies this rate. N.b.: A character that does not have LoS on the creature is not considered to be "inside" their radius.
When characters enter the scouting state, they gain a Stealth Meter. Currently, it's simply a solid circle completely filled with color (green or, if in colorblind mode, blue). This is a basic implementation and the art will change. Every NPC in the world has one of five stealth detection ratings (from Oblivious to Supernatural) that correspond to radii in the game.
When a scouting character gets into a creature's stealth detection range, their Stealth Meter will start filling from green/blue to yellow. This informs the player of how much time they have before the creature will enter Alert and Combat states. If the meter fills completely yellow, the creature will move up to a constant-defined max distance toward the character (e.g. 3m). At the same time, the yellow meter will begin to fill red. If the meter reaches full red, the scouting state is dropped, the character is detected, and hostile creatures enter Combat.
We will have a base rate at which these fills occur, but they can be modified by two elements: 1) the relationship between the character's Stealth and the target's level 2) the character's proximity to the target within the radius. The two modifiers both directly multiply the standard rate.
While this system is fully implemented, it has not been tuned and does not have final art.
3. Stamina is finally called Endurance. Yeah, baby!
4. Now, when a character receives damage, it's applied equally to Endurance and Health. Bingo!
According to the Devs, Max Endurance is multiplied by a factor determined by class to arrive at Max Health. This does mean that Health values are much higher than a traditional "D&D range", but in practice these values were already used in the background. In this update, when a character receives damage, it's applied equally to Endurance and Health.
Here are the current Endurance to Health multipliers for each class. "Front line" classes tend to have more Health as they are expected to be damaged and healed in combat with much greater frequency.
Barbarian - 6
Chanter - 4
Cipher - 4
Druid - 4
Fighter - 5
Monk - 6
Paladin - 5
Ranger - 4
Rogue - 4
Priest - 3
Wizard - 3
5. Dead bodies now turn into loot containers and can be looted directly. And again I should say: "Finally!"
Anyway, the more i hear about PoE, the worse and worse it becomes.
But I don't see anything wrong in it. You've paid to support the project and what can be better in supporting the game than finding bugs/glitches and reporting them and/or trying the game's features and giving them your review?
There are exceptions sure. And most of the cool guys dont make it or have a hard time. Maybe they dont sell out that much and have the mindset of a gaming dev spirit that somehow died.
I also paid for a complete game already so no need for me personaly to add more. I paid and wait until it´s delivered so to say. That would be common sense imo!
People are free to do whatever they want, but this policy is something that would be enough for me to blacklist a company.
Reviewers, testers, are getting payed for what they do. They don't pay. Making sure the product is of adequate quality is not enjoyment of the game released and bug-free.
When you're making a game and ask for people to support you, it's absurd to expect people to pay you extra for that kind of work.
It just boggles the mind.
@typo_tilly i actually backed them as well. I certainly don't agree with having to pay, to test though. Volunteering is one thing. But this...
@ Perhaps instead of insults you should be grateful that others care enough to donate their time to help out with projects that we all care about. As for the "spoiled gamers today buy anything and parents dont give a ...", I am fairly sure that a good number of people that pledge to these Kickstarter products are adults with their own income, some of which is expendable, and I doubt they need someone judging their purchasing or donation decisions for them.
Speaking of donations, I think a driving force for many of those that backed these projects (Pillars of Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Wasteland 2, etc.) was a desire to support the continued development of a style of entertainment that they really like, they weren't just duped into spending a bunch of money on pre-ordering a game. As for paying to beta test, it seems that there are tons of gamers who want to do so, and I'm certainly grateful for that, and I'm sure the developers are too.
The point stands, whether you like it or not, that the three games I mentioned wouldn't be released without the crowd funding model and the backers that chose to pledge their money (and in some cases, their time beta testing). So if you end up enjoying these games when you buy the finished product, you can feel free to insult all the people that made your enjoyment a reality, if that sort of thing makes you feel good. Common sense does not insult me, but suggesting that a large group of people are either stupid, spoiled children, or some combination thereof is clearly insulting. It is common sense to not bite the hand that feeds and, as I've said, you're doing just that when you hurl claims of stupidity at those that made the release of these games possible (assuming you intend to play them).
Please do tell me more, by the way, about the finances of Obsidian and how you're sure that they didn't need the money to make Pillars of Eternity. I suppose that's why they never use publishers as well? Oh wait... that's right, they do need to get money from somewhere. When that money is from a publisher, that publisher dictates the product which is to be released. With Kickstarter, the developers decide what the product will be and the fans then decide whether or not they will support it based on the pitch of the developers. If Obsidian could afford to publish all their own games, I'm sure they would, I imagine it would be quite lucrative. But if you want to believe that they're able to publish their games themselves and they just choose not to for some reason, and that they scammed all the backers, feel free, your point is fixed after all.
People're just impatient when something comes out that they really want.
Just wait for a finished product and pay only then.
If you want to test a game now, as a beta, you can pay. It's your choice. It's up to you. I don't see anything wrong in it.
That said as others have pointed out this isn't even really a full beta (in the sense that it only represents part of the game). From the sounds of things it sounds more like paying extra to get access to the games demo months before the full game is released.
So if you are so sensitive and cant read what i write with common sense then thats your problem!
I didnt insulted the guys who supports obsidian for a reason that i share. But i have my oppinion and you dont change that with this whiny attitude
I have praised obsidian for their kickstarter campaign but i also have a MIND of my own like anyone else what maybe could have been handled differently. Now feel free to interpret stuff into my words but dont mention me please cuz i´m tired of that stuff.
If you click on the picture at the top right of that article you'll see a map of the area where most of PoE will be taking place.
I'm glad to see this, I had been a little worried that they might be trying to rush the release which could ultimately lead to a buggy game. As I understand it, Obsidian has quite the reputation for buggy releases so a continuation of that with a game where no publisher was forcing the release certainly wouldn't bode well for them. Hopefully they'll take all the time they need to release a polished and relatively bug-free game.