Gods of Egypt flopped!
DragonKing
Member Posts: 1,977
in Off-Topic
So, Liongate's movie "Gods of Egypt" flopped horribly, a 140 million dollar film grossed only 14 million in the box office, but Lionsgate is not giving up! They have both a Power Rangers and a film adaptation of the Odyssey in the works.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
0
Comments
I saw it. It was cheesy good fun. It's biggest shortcoming was not enough humor. I think fantasy really works best when it knows how to laugh at itself. Something like the Peter Jackson Tolkien movies that had plenty of self aware comedy and had fun with the setting and characters.
Gods of Egypt delivered on visual effects and a larger than life setting; you could just SEE that they had a decent budget. I even thought the main characters were likable enough and I liked that it was politically incorrect enough, I'd watch it a few more times just for that.
But without more humor it's never going have enough mainstream appeal.
And that's the problem. A fantasy movie can't succeed just by reaching people with imagination. We're always too small of a market. Film makers have to find ways of reaching the broader audience or it will remain a niche market. And that means cheaper production values, less talented cast and crew, small advertising budgets, etc....
We've seen some deeper market penetration with fantasy in recent years, but it will always be a tough sell and the whole genre could go dormant for decades again with just a few big studio failures.
I've already stated that I had no intentions in watching it either way, heck I didn't even known it came out until I saw all the "gods of Egypt floppies" memes on Facebook. Yet, after reading the reviews...like @Fardragon said, that movie was awful.
Actually, funny story, some people that know me was surprised that I infact had no interest in seeing it, because I love to draw different "mythologies" they assumed that I'd be hypes for a mythology based movie. Ignoring the fact when I draw from mythology, I'm trying to visually two the story of another culture.
Don't get me wrong I do pure fantasy drawings borrowing from other cultures, its almost impossible not to. Wait where was I going with... crap smite started bye!
Like it or not, pretty much everything about BG and and IWD is cheesy and dumb. That's what makes them fun. I think Gods of Egypt was as well conceived and executed as the vast majority of fantasy games I've played. And I think it's self defeating for us trash on filmmakers and story tellers who take a risk in this genre. It's fine to offer well reasoned critique, but if we don't support forays into the genre it will simply be abandoned. Especially now with comic adaptations dominating the market, sword and sorcery is only a fringe.
I particularly like that it was made as a kid friendly movie. This is an attempt at something fun like a Ray Harryhauson project not the latest dark vision of George Martin.
Secondly, the plot of Baldur's Gate has (at least) three things GoE lacks: a degree of philosophical depth; interesting characters and (most importantly) a sense of humour.
Thirdly, I would dispute the idea that the film has much originality. It is basically a Clash of the Titans clone.
Finally, by European standards, it is a bit violent to be considered entirely "kid friendly".
As far as depth, well most action adventure movies are a little deficient in that regard. And I specifically labeled it a Ray Harryhauson sort, which specifically means Clash of the Titans; which wasn't exactly "deep" either. Fun yes, deep no.
I'm also well aware that critical reviews involve a wide range of tastes, but then it's also true GoE did not score a zero at Rotten Tomatoes. Last I knew it was around 13%, which indicates a small number of positive reviews. There are a number of reviewers I have some measure of respect for; but by and large they denigrate plain and simple "fun" while celebrating "important". Which is exactly bass ackwards for my preferences. In fact, I have little enough respect for most in the industry that what they consider "important" I usually consider hot air; and therefore a pretty big minus when it comes to reading reviews.
No one will ever call GoE a "great" movie. But it is cheesy dumb fun along the lines of Jason and the Argonauts, Sword and the Sorcerer or Creature From the Black Lagoon. No awards expected, but a perfectly good excuse to munch on a tub of popcorn in a dark theater.
After the backlash that Exodus got for doing the same thing, it's kinda hard to outright dismiss whitewashing, and peoples' critique of it.
Here is what I want to see, a all Asian/ Oriental cast for the up coming Odyssey movie.
The issue is of zero interest to me one way or the other. I hope to see a talented cast and high production values. And I hope whoever the director is he/she can be faithful to their own vision.
Lmao!
With Odyseie as the mighty Greek warrior, and Penelopius as the faithful husband being wooed by a host of wealthy chicks...
As for Clash of the Titans, the original was vastly superior to the remake.
The truth is that like it or not, Hollywood popular culture really does have immense cultural influence across the world and that kind of power ought to be used with more responsibility than it has been. As a very simple example, most peoples' knowledge of the Scottish War of Independence is based on Braveheart, not academic literature, and that film was grossly inaccurate and biased, even if it was a good movie to watch. Even the 300 franchise, which is based off a comic rather than real history and never took itself seriously as a historic epic, has shaped the modern perception of Ancient Sparta, again in a highly biased and distorted way. I enjoyed watching those movies, but they contribute to misinformation and ignorance rather than learning and understanding.
Hollywood has a terrible track record of placing white actors in heroic/leading roles even if the context made little sense, because there is an entrenched belief that American audiences cannot accept non-white leading actors. There might be some financial reasoning to this, but the problem is that Hollywood also shapes its audiences, and little or no effort has been made to make Hollywood more progressive and representative of the USA, let alone the world its movie like to explore and no doubt (mis)informs and impacts.
I don't want to see iconic Greek heroes and gods in the Odyssey played by Chinese actors if a Chinese studio decided to make an Odyssey movie. It's one thing to tell a story with similar themes with Chinese characters in a Chinese setting (for example there is a Chinese folk tale that's shares many similarities with Romeo and Juliet), but simply making Zeus look like some Chinese god-emperor to make him more relate-able to a Chinese audience is just plain wrong.
I'm sorry but this really is a silly discussion. GoE is NOT a great movie. But it's easy enough to sit back and enjoy. I'll always object to the need to put value judgements on this kind of entertainment. It's not MADE for the critics, it's made for us who like movies.
Yes, I'm a capitalist. I can complain when a movie or television show offends or upsets in some way (I'm a stickler for historical detail, if something claims to be historical), it's called feedback. But buy/don't buy is the only really meaningful feedback anyone will care about. Boycotts can and have been successfully done, obviously it hits a business exactly where it hurts; but it's only as good as the cause it supports (how much do I care that they changed the name of Wing Commander Gibson's dog or that a 30 year old was cast for a part that should have gone to a 40 year old?).
There is no doubt I've seen things in movies that annoyed me. And as a lover of history I get very annoyed when people believe some of the stupid things we see in movies. But "Hollywood" is not really a collective whole. And that's GOOD. It means when someone wants to do a movie that's socially or morally offensive to some people, OTHER PEOPLE can still get it done. We do not have to be beholden to any one specific world view on these things.
I am well familiar with being in an interest group that is grossly disrespected by the Hollywood "establishment". And I am used to vetting my movie choices carefully. One thing I have learned in the last few years is that supporting those who provide a product I want is absolutely effective. I have far more choices than I did a couple decades ago.
But we can't expect the movies we dislike to just stop being made. At least not if there's a financial motive in getting them made. Within the values set of any given Director and/or Producer there will always be questions in play about how the audience will be effected and what will get the most views (I mean, director/producer likely know what they want to make, but what will sell likely factors in too).
I know my tone has been a bit belligerent throughout this discussion. And I'm at least a little sorry if it offends. But I think there's a tendency to take these things way too seriously. It's a stupid movie. Either enjoy it for being a stupid movie or don't. But let's not treat it like ANYONE needs to take it seriously.
I find the group shout down like "you should not like this movie" to be tiresome though. I love having to defend something I feel tepid towards...
I think if I were an Egyptian actor and I saw a movie about my culture being portrayed by an all-white cast after I had auditioned for that movie, I'd be (justifiably) irritated.
Cultural appropriation is a real thing. Think about how many people think of Jesus as a white guy with brown hair and blue eyes, instead of the dark-skinned Middle Eastern man that he historically was. It's not like this was something that just happened: centuries of artwork depicting that character as a white man led to the majority of the world thinking that's what he was.
So if Hollywood (as a catch-all term to mean "the film industry") is consistently misrepresenting a group of people, either by miscasting them as white people or by depicting them in an inaccurate or biased way, that absolutely has an impact on people's perceptions. White-washing history in film and media is definitely not something that should be overlooked, tolerated, or encouraged on a grand scale.
EDIT: None of this is to say that Gods of Egypt is a bad movie for that reason alone. I haven't seen it. I saw the trailer and wanted to be excited by it, but decided not to see it in the theatre for the reasons stated above. So I couldn't comment on its quality as an entertainment piece; if you enjoyed it, embrace that! Just know that there's this other layer to the film--in its casting--that is more than a little problematic (and the director admitted as much before the film's release, which is a good thing).
People will go and see a good fantasy movie. LotR proved that. But for most people, that means good writing, not eye candy.
Actually I don't think there is major disagreement between us, at least as I understand your position. For a start I am absolutely fine with people enjoying movies for their pure entertainment value. As I said, I really enjoyed Braveheart and 300, as well as many other movies that are simply fun and/or provide a cool spectacle. I don't feel the need to defend myself to say that "I enjoyed Star Wars Episodes 1-3", my enjoyment of those movies doesn't hurt anyone else and so I don't need to justify myself.
I am also not advocating some sort of ban on "white-washing" or otherwise casting actors of "incorrect" races for roles typically associated with a racial or cultural background. As you said, Hollywood is not some monolithic entity and it would be wrong to be so restrictive of the creative freedom of filmmakers. On a related note, my natural political position is pretty pro-capitalist. If I were American I'd probably be a Ron Paul supporting Libertarian.
However although I identify the most with the political philosophy of Libertarianism, I can see that in practise, pure free market economics doesn't always produce the ideal outcome and it can even create problems of its own, including ever-growing wealth inequality. Similarly I believe that the lack of racial diversity in mainstream cinema, particularly in positive and leading roles, is a problem that capitalism has not solved.
So no, I am not calling for a boycott, I am not calling for official legislation to force greater diversity of representation in cinema/media, because I also oppose positive discrimination on principle, but I am just saying that it is a problem, and by writing about it and complaining about it, I am doing my own tiny little bit to try to make a difference for the better. That is all.
I agree with everything else you said though.