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Legacy of Bhaal

SkydogSkydog Member Posts: 111
This mode is ridiculously cool! I've been trying to kill Carbos for, like, an hour and have got no luck so far.

A question to devs. Are you planning on tweakin it? I've tried to get rid of Reevor's rats and they are über-tough (for rats, of course).

Anyway, it is great to have now a really difficult mode like Heart of Fury in IWD. It kinda makes me wanna complete a full saga run.

JuliusBorisovMaxxximusGotural
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Comments

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,912
    No extra XP either, which makes it a lot harder.

    JuliusBorisov
  • SkydogSkydog Member Posts: 111
    Another question: are the NPCs you encounter at the Obe's basement (Candlekeep) really meant to have level that high (13 or 14) in both normal and Legacy of Bhaal Mode? If so, their stats (Thac0, for instance) seem to be wrong.

  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,724
    I hope there will be an option for extra experience like Heart of Fury mode. I probably won't play Legacy of Bhaal mode otherwise.

    Adul
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,960
    The name "Legacy of Bhaal" is rather spoilery though.

    Tressetislandking
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,590
    Pecca said:

    The name "Legacy of Bhaal" is rather spoilery though.

    Yeah, I noticed that...

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,853
    path of the damned was taken.

    Abel
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,456
    edited March 2016
    Pecca said:

    The name "Legacy of Bhaal" is rather spoilery though.

    Why?

    No one who hasn't played the game before is going to figure out the big twist of BG1 just because they know there's a deity named Bhaal who may be relevant to the plot.

    This is not a spoiler. It doesn't even count as foreshadowing. It's like saying that The Empire Strikes Back was spoiled at the moment you found out Darth Vader was going to be in the movie.

    Darigaaz87
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,853
    by this point it's like the kotor reveal most people who have any familiarity with the series knows it.

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,960
    edited March 2016
    Well I think it may be a spoiler. Finding out about Bhaal is a BIG surprise (at least it was for me back then), I didn't have a slightest idea. Now, mentioning Bhaal, the notion is there, unnecessarily.
    Of course we all know about the twist, I just thought I'd mention that.

    lolmer
  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Yea, I don't see the appeal with this mode if there is no extra XP. Also it should unlock XP cap.

    For challenge without extra XP new Insane difficulty should improve AI of enemies, especially casters (and maybe add some more enemies in some battles).

    Abel
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    What does the Legacy of Bhaal mode do exactly?

    I believe this is a 'port-over' of the Heart of Fury mode from Icewind Dale, but differents sources are reporting differents behaviours when comparing the original Icewind Dale, the Enhanced Edition, and the modded HoF.

    May I ask you who are playing the beta for a precise answer?

    -THAC0
    -HP
    -AC
    -Speed Factor
    -APR
    -Damage
    -IA
    -Experience
    -Levels
    -Saves
    -And so forth.

    Thanks in advance, I think this question is interesting for a lot of players!

    SpaceInvaderJuliusBorisov
  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,311
    I'm pretty sure it is a direct port of Heart of Fury, with only the XP bonus removed. We tried leaving that in, but testers were hitting the XP cap during chapter 2. @AlexT would know if there were any other tweaks.

    GoturalSssiksseilorlolmer
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Thank you for your answer @Cerevant but a lot of players have reported differents behaviours between the original Icewind Dale's HoF mode and the Enhanced Edition's HoF mode. The biggest difference is that enemies don't seem to get a bonus to AC in the EE.

    I agree with the devs decision to remove the additional experience: in my opinion Legacy of Bhaal mode should be a 'super hard' mode, not a 'hard for an hour until I get HLAs in chapter 2 mode'.

    Also, may I ask you for a list of the bonuses? Some say the enemies get -10 to THAC0, some say they get -11 etc.

    lolmer
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Do they get a fixed bonus or a %?

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Even looking on the internet doesn't give me any complete informations about the Heart of Fury mode.

    So far what I know (taken from this thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/33942/hofemu-heart-of-fury-mode-emulator-for-bg-ee-v-1-0) :

    Enemies get HP * 3 + 80
    Armor Class -11
    THAC0 -5
    Saving Throws -5
    +1 APR
    XP * 4 +2000 (which takes into account the x2 from the Insane difficulty in Icewind Dale, that's why the Nightmare mode in BG2 only gives XP * 2 +1000)

    These are supposed I guess to be the true bonuses from the original Heart of Fury mode, but the Enhanced Edition's Heart of Fury mode doesn't give any bonuses to AC from my own experience/what I've read.
    Also, will summons be affected by the Legacy of Bhaal mode?

    I would really like some additional input on this subject, thanks in advance!

    lolmerDarigaaz87
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    Is all of this fixed or is it still being worked on? I'd like to bring up cleric turning being effectively disabled in nightmare mode (due to the level increase). Is there any way to make it so clerics don't lose a class ability. I'm certain if thieves lost hide in shadows or detect trap there would be an uprising - cleric lives matter.

    Goturallolmer
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    @Tredvolt I think the intent when Bioware released the HoF mode for Icewind Dale was to run through the game once then to import your party and to start again, this time in HoF and the +12 to level check was compensated by your experience.

    But if the Legacy of Bhaal doesn't give any additional XP then I agree with you, it's going to make Turn Undead useless.

    In my opinion, the Legacy of Bhaal mode should give a slight XP bonus, like a fixed +250 because slaying Kobolds/Xvarts/Gibberlings with one hundred health point to get 7-35 XP is going to make the early game quite horrible to play.

    SpaceInvader
  • AlexTAlexT Member Posts: 760
    Torin said:

    For challenge without extra XP new Insane difficulty should improve AI of enemies, especially casters (and maybe add some more enemies in some battles).

    That is exactly how SoD works. It was demonstrated on the last Twitch stream.

    However, BG:EE and BGII:EE don't work like that as that would require re-scripting every single enemy encounter in the game. There are a few instances in BGII:EE where additional/tougher enemies spawn on higher difficulty settings, but it's not as common as in SoD.

    GoturalJuliusBorisovSpaceInvaderlolmer
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    AlexT said:

    Torin said:

    For challenge without extra XP new Insane difficulty should improve AI of enemies, especially casters (and maybe add some more enemies in some battles).

    That is exactly how SoD works. It was demonstrated on the last Twitch stream.

    However, BG:EE and BGII:EE don't work like that as that would require re-scripting every single enemy encounter in the game. There are a few instances in BGII:EE where additional/tougher enemies spawn on higher difficulty settings, but it's not as common as in SoD.
    That's why God @DavidW blessed us with SCS.

    Goturallolmer
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    @Gotural Even with additional experience - turn undead doesn't end up functioning at all. I've spent a lot of time on Nightmare mode because I really enjoy enemies feeling more substantial and not like wet tissue paper. Taking a cleric in the party shouldn't be penalized exceptionally if it is something that can be fixed.

    As I understand it turn undead is a level check. Turn undead level vs level of the undead - and can result in various things (nothing, feared, explodicated). With a +12 level calculation on undead you will NEVER be able to turn at any meaningful point in the game and the cleric class is diminished significantly. Again I would recommend people consider if they turned off hide in shadows or find trap or some thief ability (would that be ok?).

    I don't think the logic is disputable - but what is disputable is whether there is a reasonable fix that can be placed on it. I'd be happy with evne being able to edit my clerics turn undead level up through console - but I'm not sure that is good.

    Maybe one of you smarter people can figure out a good solution that doens't overpower clerics in nightmare but still allows them to use one of their core abilities.

    Lastly, I have never played heart of fury or nightmare with max level characters - that sounds excessively boring and easy - as the modes are actually not that difficult even with a starting party. I'm actually really excited about them removing bonus experience as it will make the play experience much more exciting for those of us who like to push the challenge aspect (why we are playing these modes in the first place).

    lolmer
  • raeshiaraeshia Member Posts: 4
    Pecca said:

    The name "Legacy of Bhaal" is rather spoilery though.

    You're likely only seeing it as spoilery because you've already played the game, the game doesn't exactly beat you over the head with what your character really is until fairly late game.

    Kilivitz
  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 716
    @Tredvolt Problem is that, to my knowledge, how Turn Undead works or any other modal action for that matter isn't moddable. It could be a good idea to leave out the level increase since it's obvious you won't reach the crazy level 30 of IWD.

    I find it odd that LoB would be 'just' a port of HoF since IWD actually gives you tools to cope with it (levels and equipment). BG on the other hand doesn't seem rewarding enough for a HoF mode.
    LoB should be tuned for BG. Though I'm not sure it'd be possible to do more than a HoF port.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    AlexT said:

    Torin said:

    For challenge without extra XP new Insane difficulty should improve AI of enemies, especially casters (and maybe add some more enemies in some battles).

    That is exactly how SoD works. It was demonstrated on the last Twitch stream.

    However, BG:EE and BGII:EE don't work like that as that would require re-scripting every single enemy encounter in the game. There are a few instances in BGII:EE where additional/tougher enemies spawn on higher difficulty settings, but it's not as common as in SoD.
    I know that SoD works that way. But BGEE should also get some love, at least in some fights.

  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    AlexT said:

    Torin said:

    For challenge without extra XP new Insane difficulty should improve AI of enemies, especially casters (and maybe add some more enemies in some battles).

    That is exactly how SoD works. It was demonstrated on the last Twitch stream.

    However, BG:EE and BGII:EE don't work like that as that would require re-scripting every single enemy encounter in the game. There are a few instances in BGII:EE where additional/tougher enemies spawn on higher difficulty settings, but it's not as common as in SoD.
    I really like the smarter enemy AI, but I was wondering how high difficulty do you need to fully enable it?

  • prairiechickenprairiechicken Member Posts: 149
    Does it give you really powerful lob only items or are things the same?

  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,456
    I am pretty sure there will be no items exclusive to Legacy of Bhaal - the only IE game to do such a thing was IWD2.

  • nemesanemesa Member Posts: 8
    I like the idea to get another level of difficulty, mostly because "Insane" is too easy for veterans, but I found it a bit ridiculous to get killed by normal rats in Candlekeep.

    I believe that the idea to get more XP in Legacy of Bhaal could be more interesting. Beside the achievement, the player needs to get some kind of reward for using the hardest difficulty. Be it XP or items.

    SpaceInvader
  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 425
    Initially back then, that mode in IWD was intended to be used by characters that already had levels from an earlier game, not to be used with Level 1 chars.
    Of course (because-we-can!) it was made a sport to play this mode with Level 1 to show off how skilled and frustration tolerant one is, but rewarding it with more XP would mean this mode becomes easier while you progress, as your Char levels adjust faster to the higher difficulty. it would be somewhat relativate the challenge taken if that happens.

    I don't like the heart of winter mode or now legacy of bhaal (prefer SCS mod with core or insane difficulty as the opponents get smarter, not just harder there), but if one wants to play that, the reward of this mode is to have actually mastered it ...

  • HeavylineHeavyline Member Posts: 108
    Iam confused.. Is "Legacy of Bhaal" supposed to be extreme diffculty mode for veterans or is it more like New Game+ mode? Is it considered cheating if I import level 8 character from my previous playthrough and start a Legacy of Bhaal run with it?

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