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Orc & Drow mating (Let's work together and solve this puzzle!)

IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
Hey everyone, ya sweet spice Cinnamon is here for another round of brain stimulating questions!

So, without further ado, let's get into, shall we?

Now, I am aware of the surroundings behind Drow and Orcs, the real question is: In a Baldur's Gate, Sword of Coast/Dragonsiege/Amn/Throne of Bhaal setting, are these two races allowed to produce off-spring?

I know it's a fantasy setting and I am free to make whatever I feel like making, but I'm very adhesive to the rules and setting, if such a combination is not possible in this setting then I shan't force it.

I ask purely because I am designing a new character (Sssh, can't let anything slip more than that!), so I'd like to know if these two races can produce a legitimate off-spring in these games. If they cant, then it's a Drow all the way, although that saddens me a fair amount!

What are your thoughts? Please, let me know~

I'd really like this thread to stay on track, please do not derail and please refrain from any aggressive arguing.
Debates are fine, and you are more than welcome to object to anything posted here; Just remember the rules and keep it friendly, thank you!

Get your dice rolling and get your brain juices following everyone, let's get brain storming!

~Cinnamon
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Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    You could always split orcs and drow in half. Then take one half of each corpse, sew them together and resurrect the patched up Frankenstein's monster. Voila: half-drow/half-orc Two-Face is born! :naughty:

    If you had hoped for a natural born hybrid between drow and orcs on the other hand, then the answer would be no. Not even half-drow and half-orcs would be able to mix bloodlines. We have the stubborness of Corellon Larethian and Gruumsh to thank for that. And lazy Lolth apparently thought it was too bothersome to fix the issue at hand.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    Shame, truly. @Kamigoroshi

    Ah well, the character is already ridiculously filled with creativity, I guess being a half-orc, half-drow would've been far too much anyway.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Don't take this to your local gaming group with any kind of authority, but I recall reading something somewhere that suggested that an orc mating with a human, elf, or half-elf always produces a half-orc. Since a drow is still an elf, a drow mating with an orc would produce a half-orc.

    But if you want to add some Underdark flair to it, you could give your half-orc black skin and white hair. Not sure how lore-accurate that is, though.
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited March 2016
    image

    Taken from here.

    I guess half-orc can't be blinded by sunlight that much.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @Dee That's a really interesting insight... But what about a Half-Orc mating with a fully fledged Drow?

    Would this produce the same outcome, or would this produce a Drow with very minor Orc features? (Like hair and ears)

    Aesthetic wise, I only really wanted to make a Drow with mixed Orc blood because 1. ORCS!!! 2. The hair and ears in BG are just to die for, seriously.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I suppose you could take several approaches to this.

    In one view, both Drow and Orcs have such enmity towards each other that the mating would probably be rare in the extreme. And since both races have no problems "Sacrificing" such a halfbreed, It is highly unlikely that such a union would survive long in the real world as they would be anathema to both societies. Such an abomination would be even more of an outcast than a half human, and by orders of magnitude so much so that both races would be HIGHLY motivated to end it's existence.

    Another way to look at it is as follows. Orcs are very short lived race. Elves (and Drow by extension) are extremely long lived races. It may very well be that the relative gestation periods of these two completely different physiognomies simply would not allow such a fetus to survive to term biologically. Since humans are somewhere in the middle, they "Just about" make it work either direction but only Just and not without a much greater risk.

    Of course, that raises the question of if a Half Orc and a Half Drow could mate? Who knows, but then I think that any offspring would be either one or the other, or so muddled as to be indistinguishable from human (the third piece and the most dominant as it represents half of both the mother and the father) as to just not be racially distinguishable.

    Finally, the genetics might merely be different enough that no such conception could happen.

    However, and this is the great thing about this game, if you want to make such a creature in your game? You can.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @the_spyder
    The problem arises is that, with all the work going into it, I'd like it to be available for everyone who wants a Male Drow that isn't your typical Drow, nor typical character in any fashion at all, really. And also of a certain... Background. *winks*

    And as mentioned, I like to be legitimate about my content of origins when it comes to character backstory, so it needs to be legitimate as well.

    In my own personal game, I will tweak the finished product to my own design - As would anyone else, and thusly would make it a Orc+Drow hybrid character.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    I like @Kamigoroshi's idea the most. Just cut them in half and saw them together. However, depends on which halves. An "upper-half-orc-lower-half-drow" would look like a standard Mr. Olympia, but "upper-half-drow-lower-half-orc" would look silly. And hung.
    Not to mention "left-half-orc-male-right-half-drow-female" would be unpractical, run in circles due to it's shorter legs on the right side and there would be probably a lot of R-rated ...ehm...self...discovery?
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Icecreamtub - So, as I stated in my post, the great thing about the game is that you can do whatever you want and come up with whatever justifications you want. I was merely postulating why such a combination would not work. It's all make believe in any event.

    In my personal and subjective view, I don't see a "Need" for such a character in my own game. I find the whole idea much more cliche than even the standard tropes of characters like Dorn or some wayward Drow with a heart of gold. Not that I think diversity isn't necessary, merely that the more absurd the stretch to make a combination "Merely to make it" the less I am interested. But I am sure there will be loads of others that will like the idea.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @the_spyder
    TL;DR - I don't want to create an asinine character and I'd rather it was legitimate by a standard D&D setting, even if it is all fantasy and make believe - There's only so much make believe one can get away with.

    Whilst you *can* do whatever you like, there are rulings one must follow otherwise it is considered an "illegal" creation. Otherwise, we'd have fire breathing Dragon kin with +5 Cromfyr swords as arms and hands, with 250% immunity to magic (this infers a 150% healing from magic, or something.) and the ability to create and destroy worlds at the click of a... Hilt?

    I just want to design a character that does make legitimate sense and isn't completely absurd. I'm not the type to make a 36th Succubus, 10th Wood Elf, 5th Human, 7th Nymph, 2th Dragon, 40th Orc and 10th Godlike with sausage-shooting eye beams twice a day and hair made out of magic missiles. As fun and creative as that sounds, that is absolutely asinine and has no place in any legitimate ruled D&D setting.

    Unfortunately, because I don't want to give away any meaty information, I can/could only previously/futuristically say certain things that most likely will give people the impression I am forcing a certain style merely for the sake of it being edge-lord-tastic.

    I can, however, say that it's not the case... Thee unfortunate part about that is, until the character is finished and published, you'll just have to believe and take my word for it.

    I'm not enforcing some random race mixture for the sake of being cool and different. Whilst Drow are a peculiar race, most likely adapted to seemingly fit some kind of racial profiling of society, and Orcs are quite well known to be my favourite race, there is a very specific reason I want to combine the two into one.

    Perhaps maybe only seemingly to me, everything behind this character makes sense. Honestly, the only thing about this character that is really nonsensical, in terms of how (which is explained how, it still is the most nonsense thing to the character. In fact, it probably makes me sound like a fan of a certain character in the game, which I honestly wouldn't deny if it was every questioned, but I dont personally feel as if it had any real influence.), is the deity it does worship.

    This is about as much as I can give away without putting it in a blunt and obvious statement. I've probably given away to much-as-is, but I wanted to set the record straight and clear up any misconceptions I may have accidentally given out.

    Apologies if I sound disgruntled/upset/annoyed or any ill feelings, just pointing out a couple of things. I honestly mean no harm by anything I've written, please don't take it as such & thank you for reading it, if you did read all of it.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Icecreamtub - No problem. Again, it does not sound like the type of character that I would have any interest in. Beyond that, good luck and have fun with it. That "To me" is the only rule worth living by.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    May I please ask some questions regarding this character?

    How was it conceived from a biological standpoint? What were the parents backgrounds and how did they meet? How much were they part of this child's life?

    If you can answer these questions, and make it believable, then it won't be asinine.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @deltago

    When a Mummy Drow and a Daddy Orc love each very much...
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    edited March 2016
    Did you know that in 99.9% of fantasy scenarios; dragons can mate with anything? So why shouldn't drow and orcs??
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    edited March 2016
    @Dragonking

    Indeed. As far as I'm aware, there are certain restrictions on Orcs because of their initial debut. Since they are a short lived race and Elves are not, this causes complications, supposedly.

    With all my research, knowledge and people lending me a hand in this discussion, it's pretty much all on the Orc side of things.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    Orcs are a short lived race? So are humans by comparison yet they can freaking mate with anything also, including elves. I don't see how that can actually be used against the unholy combination.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    Orcs life span is like, 40 years. Humans iirc do not have anywhere close to that natural lifespan.

    It's just... A weird fantasy setting, that's all. No use arguing against the facts, the D&D setting is designed to make sense and none the next. All I want to figure out is whether it is biologically legitimate.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Didn't Tolkien's orcs spring from the earth, unable to reproduce on their own? I feel like that was a thing.

    As to what happens when a half-orc mates with a drow, I think at that point you're looking at 3e's Mongrel race: a creature with such mixed heritage that it's no longer clear what its ancestry truly is.

    That is, assuming that you're looking for a mechanics-based explanation for what happens. In terms of biology or genetics, I think your idea of a drow with orcish features (or an orc with drow features) is pretty much spot on. I would probably rule on the side of "orc traits are dominant" for the most part, but until Ed Greenwood gives us the real answer on that, I'd say it's up to you how you want it to work.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2016
    http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19618

    I found a thread from the Candlekeep forum. Apparently there are Half-Orcs-Half-Elves/Drow.

    And as a poster says, in 3E Races of Faerun, p.67 there is this entry:

    "Half-orcs are invariably the product of a human and an orc, but stories are told of half-orcs carrying the blood of dwarves, goblins, hobgoblins, and even halflings, gnomes, and elves."

    Gameplay-wise, they would have the Half-Orc stats. One explanation for that is because the Orc bloodline is more dominant.
    Roleplaying-wise, the Half-Orc could have black skin, red eyes and white hair and pointier ears but would otherwise be like the other Half-Orcs.


    TL;DR: Yes, 3E suggests that it's possible, otherwise they wouldn't mention it at all.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    deltago

    When a Mummy Drow and a Daddy Orc love each very much...

    So the parents were in love?
    Did they love your character back?
    How did the parents meet?

    Unique characters needs to extend its back ground past its birth for it to make sense.

    If there can be half-dragons, a half elf - half orc is conceivable (pun intended, please dont ban me). But only if you can explain the parents past.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @deltago

    It was meant as a joke. You asked how the parents would conceive the child, so I seized the opportunity.
    If you want to ask me in PMs about any peculiar ideas I might have, I might be more inclined to answer in a serious manner; I keep saying I would like to minimise any serious background leaks. It could ruin the entire character if I spoil even the smallest detail outside of racial mixture.

    @Dee

    Thanks for all the information Dee, it's been a quite the great help. It's good to see I wasn't wrong in my theories if the mixture was viable. Thanks for taking the time to help confirm it!
    I honestly also have to ask, so beg my pudding, though what has intrigued you into paying attention to this post? Just seems a little... Unusual, to my eyes, haha.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'll be honest, at first I was checking to make sure the thread was following the rules about staying PG-13. Never can be too careful. ;)
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @Dee

    Oh yeah... I put quite the title, I didn't even notice that! I wrote the initial post half-asleep, to be honest. Working on a character can be... Draining. ~_~
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2016
    deltago said:


    If there can be half-dragons, a half elf - half orc is conceivable (pun intended, please dont ban me). But only if you can explain the parents past.

    The easiest and most lore-accurate but also most unpleasant explanation for a Half-Orc/Half-Drow is that an orc raid attacked and pillaged a surface, Eilistraeen (Chaotic Good) Drow settlement and forced themselves on them so a Half-Orc/Half-Drow child survived.
    Perhaps raised to not be Evil by Gorion.

    Or, traditional Lolthite or Bhaal Drow Priestesses aligned themselves temporarily with Orcs to crush surface Elves.
    Perhaps the priestess leading the assault felt some attraction to the power and might, as well as "alpha-male" qualities of the Orc chief/priest/warlord/whatever and made a Half-Orc/Half-Drow child, since most Drow males are second-class citizens and are demanded to follow the females' orders.

    The child might have survived because that Drow priestess of Lolth/Bhaal was captured when she was pregnant and interrogated by humans/elves after they were defeated.

    These could be the Good and Evil origin stories of a Half-Orc/Half-Drow.
    The details can be fleshed out as needed.
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    @Archaos

    One of those is something I was intentionally trying to avoid being part of the background. As accurate and typical of Drow nature that it is, and Orcs being as they are, I'm definitely going to avoid any mention of that.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    Did you know that in 99.9% of fantasy scenarios; dragons can mate with anything? So why shouldn't drow and orcs??

    Um, because DRAGONS...

    Orcs life span is like, 40 years. Humans iirc do not have anywhere close to that natural lifespan.

    Actually, Orcs are supposed to only live 20-30 years. Humans (simply because of modern mentalities) are supposed to live 60-70 years. Yes, that is anachronistic, but there it is.
    Dee said:

    Didn't Tolkien's orcs spring from the earth, unable to reproduce on their own? I feel like that was a thing.

    It was definitely a thing in the movies, but no. In the books Orcs could breed just like any other race. Gandalf actually makes comments to that effect during the council with Elrond.

    TBH, I don't honestly see why it can't happen (despite my previous posts). I just think that it would be rare enough that there really wouldn't be a need for a whole rule set surrounding it.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768



    Dee said:

    Didn't Tolkien's orcs spring from the earth, unable to reproduce on their own? I feel like that was a thing.

    It was definitely a thing in the movies, but no. In the books Orcs could breed just like any other race. Gandalf actually makes comments to that effect during the council with Elrond.

    TBH, I don't honestly see why it can't happen (despite my previous posts). I just think that it would be rare enough that there really wouldn't be a need for a whole rule set surrounding it.
    The Silmarillion says that Melkor took elves and twisted them into orcs since he couldn't create life, he could only pervert what already existed.
  • ElDiabloElDiablo Member Posts: 36
    I'd also like to add to this discussion that we must not forget we have MAGIC!

    sure under unalterered circumstances a drow and orc might not be able to concieve but maybe one of the gods was like "Aww that's a cute couple, i'll magic a baby in there" or "Muhahaha let's make something really f'ed up with this."

    or maybe the couple realized the broblem and got a mage or alchemist or druid or whatever to make em a super conception potion or something.

    or maybe a drow magus with a german accent was like "Zis might be a good experiment to make a new breed of ubersoldaten" the drow certainly got no restriction on experiments, heck they have a huge tradition of drow demon half breeds.

    and i bet there are a ton more solutions one can think up for the poblem. that's the beauty of D&D.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited March 2016
    BillyYank said:


    The Silmarillion says that Melkor took elves and twisted them into orcs since he couldn't create life, he could only pervert what already existed.

    As an avid fan of Tolkien's work, I am ashamed to admit that I have never read the Silmarillion. With that having been said, I do remember something like that. I also remember Gandalf saying specifically that the orcs were multiplying in the mountains. I am about 99% sure that he said that in The Hobbit but it could just as easily have been during the Council in The Fellowship of the Ring. So either my memory is faulty (a distinct possibility), or maybe Tolkien changed gears?

    Edit: As I posted, I figured out what the problem was. Gandalf talked about GOBLINS multiplying in the mountains.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    There's no conflict between the two statements. The part about orcs being created from elves is just talking about the first ones. After they were made, orcs bred like any other animal.
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