Learning the rules of the games

Riderat

Hey!

I've been off the BG saga for a while due to some personal reasons. But I did couple of runs about a year ago and I really enjoyed the trip. The only drawback was that I was completely relying on intuition and the explanations that game is giving (we all know that game tries to break you with no explanations whatsoever). I had some serious problems with different conditions, status effects, monster weaknesses, skill/spell mechanics etc. For instance, I still don't know what a round in game is and how to measure it. I kinda get the idea that it's the sequence for all the involved parties in (or out) combat to make a move (but then how can you have 1.5 attack/round? muaaaaa. You swing your weapon, swing it again but stop halfway, wait for everyone else to move/attack, then finish your halfway swing and do another one? aaaargh). Nevertheless, now I would like to start the game again, but this time I'm planning to go in prepared.

How did you learn the bits and pieces of the game? Did you really read trough the manuals? Isn't there some more user friendly way to do that? Just a quick glance at amazon got me averted from purchasing such a manual, as they cost around 30 bucks/book. I tried to search youtube for some rule explanations, but nothing came up. Wikipedia is often helpful, but there you really have to know what are you looking for (it is not written in a continuous manner) and it's sometimes an overkill of information. I found this manual http://www.beamdog.com/files/bg2ee/bg2eemanual1.pdf however, it seems that it only scratches the surface of the actual game mechanics and everything, focusing more on the lore and the general game-play.

Bottom line - how did you learn this game? How many times did you have to restart because you messed up your char with a bad level up or something?

Thanks for the input!

Zanso

I actually learned the rules from 3.5 edition (Baldur's Gate is modified 2nd edition). It works pretty much the same way if you only look at the mechanics of the game (rounds, attacks etc.).

The basic idea is that one ROUND is 6 seconds (real time, not counting pauses of course). So if you have 2 attacks for example, you can hit twice in 6 seconds. I think with 1,5 attacks it is one attack on ROUND one and two on ROUND two (not sure on this one though). One TURN is 60 seconds aka 10 ROUNDs. You can put the "show rolls" in game menu on, this way you can actually see what is happening.

Correct if I am wrong, but attacks for example are done with d20 dice. The lower the number the better (with attacks, saving throws, Armor class etc), except when bonuses are implied: for example +2 weapon is better than +1. They made this easier to understand/calculate in 3.0/3.5 edition: the bigger the better.

About the monsters, the only way to know weaknesses and such is to remember. Or you can use this:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_contents.php#n
It is quite accurate. Not completely, but almost

When creating a character this is a good reference site:
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats
You know where to place your ability points and how many points

About the conditions and status effects... well... you need to specify what you had problems with.. there are so many

Riderat

Hey, thanks for the reply! Rounds is not the thing that I am worried about, it was just an example. I mean, I understand the basics - THAC0, damage rolls, saving rolls etc. But I know that there is more than that to the game. And probably knowing that 'more' part could bring me from playing on easier difficulty to smash more intermediate difficulties

Zanso

Aaa alright Could you give me some examples? And btw, I have been playing Baldur's Gate, NwN, PnP and other D&D games for over ten years and I still prefer Core Rules But I always use Strategems. Makes the enemies harder (smarter) without actually doubling their damage or anything like that. Making the game harder that way has always felt artificial to me.

If you really want to learn all the rules, then there is no other way around it than read the books But for example the PlayItHardcore page I linked above gives a lot of info how to maximize your characters and companions. This will of course give you better idea how to kill creatures, even with Strategems

Riderat

Well I haven't played for a while now, as you might see in the first post of this topic, therefore, it is difficult to put a finger on what is not know or what may be confusing. But I am planning to give the game another try and in the meantime, read something more about the mechanics and all that stuff, so I am more prepared for the journey ahead.

Heindrich

I came to this forum when I had some questions in the middle of my first BG1 Vanilla playthrough. I didn't even know what Enhanced Edition was at the time or played any D&D games before, but his community was extremely welcoming and patient with me, so I stayed and kept asking questions in the Beginners No Spoilers part of the forum... And that's pretty much how I learnt to play the game without too much pain in my first playthrough.

FinneousPJ

@Riderat This might blow your mind but the best way to learn is to

play the game

Jarrakul

I came in as a veteran of 2nd Edition D&D, so I mostly knew how the game worked ahead of time. Of course, I was also probably 7 or 8 years old at the time, so my grasp of *everything* was tenuous at best. I died a lot, in the early days, understanding of the rules or no.

Zanso

@Riderat One thing I really recommend is reading up on the spells and their descriptions. And ask, if you don't know how to use some of the spells. The spells (and some items of course), or the lack of them, can make the game easier than before (and much more fun!) For example, years and years ago during BG1 Vanilla I only ever used damage spells I was young and foolish back then

lunar

It takes some time to get used to some mechanics. Years before, I was like frantically clicking on healing potions while my char stood there, I was so frustrated he could not drink potions fast enough. I thought it worked like diablo 2 in which my char could gulp down potions as fast as I could click. I did not know I had to wait 6 seconds before gulping another one in bg2.

Every char is in its own personal round in the game. It means, during a round, which is 6 seconds, a creature can do one special action only:using ability, activating a wand, gulping a potion, casting a spell etc. AND attack, to a number of times max allowed by his attacks/round. Thus you can cast a quick spell and attack, before the round is finished, and then you can cast or gulp a potion again. If you enable end of the round auto pause on options, it auto pauses for every party member when their round ends:you can use a spell or potion or ability then.

SirBatince

Just by playing it.

I had some monster knowledge from PnP prior to playing BG because I actually own some beastiary books despite never having played a real PnP game. But before EE I never once visited a forum about BG, let alone knowing somebody in real life playing it. Forever alone you say?

But learning IE is a whole different adventure. It took me years to find out most characters only hit once a round and that most swings are actually "fake".

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bob_veng

@subtledoctor
haha that's great

@Riderat
read what subtledoctor wrote and the IWD manual https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36286/icewind-dale-enhanced-edition-game-manuals
You need the Mastering Melee & Magic manual, chapter 5 (combat).

How come no one else pointed him to the great IWD manual?

Riderat

Thanks for the replies guys. People tend to learn in different ways I, for one, like to conduct some research in order to understand the mechanics. Personally, trail and error takes too much time.
By the way, i also find this topic quite helpful (especially for spells and skills). If anyone is interested - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/14571/unofficial-game-manual-for-baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/p1

prairiechicken

I just read entire charts when I am a noob

Riderat

oh, by the way, there is also a nice topic down the section about status effects, if anyone is interested https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47623/status-effects

If not, I will have a bookmark in this topic for future reference

mashedtaters

I played IWD before I played BG. I also played pnp. But these games work differently than table top games. They are similar in theory but play out differently.

@bob_veng is right. The IWD manual is a great resource. It's how I learned to play the infinity engine games. It's not a dry read, either. The original IWD didn't have all the kits and stuff that BG2 has, but the kits directly tell you how they modify the rules. The two games are very very similar.