So for example, if wizard with 18 int (+4) uses fireball (3rd level) then DC is 10 + 4 + 3 = 17. So you need to have roll + bonus of 17 or higher to succeed a save.
Saves are no longer static but becomes harder to resist if caster has higher stats and is using higher level spells. This makes higher level spells more powerful (Chromatic Orb only gets +1, while Wail of the Banshee gets +9)
@prairiechicken okay thanks. If you guys post that on an IWD2 forum, I would find it very useful.
But, since that doesn't have relevance to BGEE, BG2EE, SoD, or IWDEE, and those are the games I am playing and discussing, I'm not sure I particularly care...
Used bookstores are your friend. Plenty of old 2.X edition books and other material you can buy and read up on. THAC0 is a pain and other things that deal with numbers. Never been good with numbers, which is why I preferred to be a player and not the DM when I used to play P&P.
For those of you who are familiar with 3E and not 2E, it may be easy to think of it like this:
Given 3E attack: Oppenant's AC is equal to 15. In order to hit the opponent, the attacker must roll a 15 or higher on a D20, plus any bonuses or penalties. If your strength+base attack bonus+any other modifiers is +4, then you add +4 to the D20 roll. In other words, AC=DC (armor class=difficulty class).
Given 2E attack: Attacker's THAC0 is equal to 15. In order to hit the opponent, the attacker must roll a 15 or higher on a D20, plus any bonuses or penalties. If your strength+opponent's armor class+any other modifiers is +4, then you add +4 to the D20 roll. In other words, THAC0=DC (to-hit-armor-class-zero=difficulty class).
The only real difference between 3E and 2E attacks is that they switched THAC0 with AC in the equation. See? They are basically the same. That is why a lower AC is better in 2E, because it is on the opposite side of the equation as compared between 2E and 3E.
2E adds AC as a modifier to the attack roll, and uses progressively decreased THAC0 as the difficult class.
3E uses AC as the difficulty class, and adds progressively increased base attack bonus (formerly known as THAC0) as a modifier to the attack roll.
They are both easy and intuitive, and essentially the same calculation in the end. The numbers are the same on both sides of the equation, they just are calculated on different sides of the equation, as follows.
2E: D20 roll + AC => THAC0 (BAB) = succesful hit
3E: D20 roll + BAB (THAC0) => AC = successful hit
Saving throw rolls in both engines are exactly the same in comparison as above, except that there are only 3 saving throws in 3E.
The only reason I find 2E confusing is the lack of consistency among the various books and authors, and Baldur's Gate. WotC must have hired editors that understood the engine to help them find any mistakes. This was only done with 3.5E, though, because 3.0E had a lot of confusing typos.
I hope this comparison helps both sides of the argument understand.
With Fireball, from a 10th level caster, it does 10d6 damage (so, from 10 to 60 hit points). But if you make your saving throw - i.e. if your d20 roll is the same or higher than your saving throw number - then you only take 5d6 damage. So you would only lose between 5 and 30 hit points.
Just to clarify: making the saving throw for a fireball makes you take half of 10d6 damage not 5d6. Seems the same, but the values tend to be closer to the mean in the first case.
Also the caster rolls only once for fireball damage regardless of how many creatures are affected. Each victim takes either the same full damage if he fails his individual saving roll or half that if he succeeds.
Comments
So for example, if wizard with 18 int (+4) uses fireball (3rd level) then DC is 10 + 4 + 3 = 17. So you need to have roll + bonus of 17 or higher to succeed a save.
Saves are no longer static but becomes harder to resist if caster has higher stats and is using higher level spells. This makes higher level spells more powerful (Chromatic Orb only gets +1, while Wail of the Banshee gets +9)
THAC0 is a pain and other things that deal with numbers. Never been good with numbers, which is why I preferred to be a player and not the DM when I used to play P&P.
Given 3E attack:
Oppenant's AC is equal to 15. In order to hit the opponent, the attacker must roll a 15 or higher on a D20, plus any bonuses or penalties. If your strength+base attack bonus+any other modifiers is +4, then you add +4 to the D20 roll.
In other words, AC=DC (armor class=difficulty class).
Given 2E attack:
Attacker's THAC0 is equal to 15. In order to hit the opponent, the attacker must roll a 15 or higher on a D20, plus any bonuses or penalties. If your strength+opponent's armor class+any other modifiers is +4, then you add +4 to the D20 roll.
In other words, THAC0=DC (to-hit-armor-class-zero=difficulty class).
The only real difference between 3E and 2E attacks is that they switched THAC0 with AC in the equation. See? They are basically the same. That is why a lower AC is better in 2E, because it is on the opposite side of the equation as compared between 2E and 3E.
2E adds AC as a modifier to the attack roll, and uses progressively decreased THAC0 as the difficult class.
3E uses AC as the difficulty class, and adds progressively increased base attack bonus (formerly known as THAC0) as a modifier to the attack roll.
They are both easy and intuitive, and essentially the same calculation in the end. The numbers are the same on both sides of the equation, they just are calculated on different sides of the equation, as follows.
2E: D20 roll + AC => THAC0 (BAB) = succesful hit
3E: D20 roll + BAB (THAC0) => AC = successful hit
Saving throw rolls in both engines are exactly the same in comparison as above, except that there are only 3 saving throws in 3E.
The only reason I find 2E confusing is the lack of consistency among the various books and authors, and Baldur's Gate. WotC must have hired editors that understood the engine to help them find any mistakes. This was only done with 3.5E, though, because 3.0E had a lot of confusing typos.
I hope this comparison helps both sides of the argument understand.
Also the caster rolls only once for fireball damage regardless of how many creatures are affected. Each victim takes either the same full damage if he fails his individual saving roll or half that if he succeeds.