The all mighty Gods
Hey,
I got a question about the religion world in bg 2.
Does Lolth have power outside the underdark?
I got a question about the religion world in bg 2.
Does Lolth have power outside the underdark?
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Here is a thread for D&D lore questions if you're interested.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48035/forgotten-realms-lore-questions#latest
ill look into it
So, Lolth hold powers in any place where you can find drows or spiders. You can find places like that on the surface, just not everywhere, and not in sufficient numbers to make allow her to manifest much of her power.
In a drow city, the power of Lolth can go up to open a gate to summon giant aberration to smite people she want to punish. It happened once into R.A. Salvatore books, when Lolth decided to punish a drow house which tried to get opportunity of her absence during the Time of Troubles to remove her clergy from the position of supreme power in one of her favorite drow city... and the whole house, buildings and inhabitant, were totaly wiped out in less than a minute.
Outside, she can scry things if there are a notable amount of spiders somewhere, or some drows, but her influence will be limitated to watch, provide divine spells if a Priestress of Lolth is there, and influence somewhat her actions through feelings or impressions (even if the Priestress can use a ritual to etablish a communication a bit more clear, but this one will still bound to some limitations, like all answer being comunicated in a sibilin way)
On middle grounds, Lolth can send a divine servant (in her case a Yochlol) or in very special case a lesser manifestation of herself that will be able to express her will with a total clarity. Those are powerful beings, but not an equivalent by any means of her true power.
There is stricly no place on the Prime Plane however, no matter how many drows or spiders are there, Lolth can appear for real or use her true power...
Why? Because Ao forbids it, and Lolth as megalomaniac could she be, is not stupid enough to forget how inferior to the OverGod all gods are.
RIP House Oblodra
As someone stated in a book "if the drows where not that busy to kill each other, they would rule the world"
I mean - her goal is to get power by worship and stuff?
All gods sort of have that goal, to get more worshippers and power. But their specific goals are usually more aligned with their portfolios. Lolth wants total chaos and strife among her own followers for her own amusement. She is like a player that enjoys torturing in video games. The world is simply there for her amusement, and she likes to see everything in chaos or pain. Sort of like how some kids torture bugs or animals for fun when they are little. She's like that, but not innocent, she knows what she's doing, and has a lot of power.
Very evil.
I just disagree about the "pain" part. Lolth enjoy chaos and strife, pain is merely a consequence of those two things she enjoys.
The only goddess who seek Pain as a finality is Loviatar.
so her thirst for chaos created the drow war politics?
i mean they came courrputed to the underdark
Or the religion made them such?
If you are interested in learning more about Lolth and the drow, there are some great novels out there by a guy name R.A.Salvatore. Check out my post (3rd down from OP) in this thread for a thorough description of what books to read.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/46833/2nd-ed-forgotten-realms-litterature-i-need-to-get-schooled#latest
also somewhere in the wikis is the Powers of Deity's separated by their "God Level" i think lolth can see and hear everything in a 10 Mile Radius around a Shrine or a Devoted Cleric to her or something like that, also shes a very very VERY active Deity , answering every prayer/call in an Instant. (Viconia states that if you Romance her)
"active" i will kill u if u fail stuff.
By the time of Baldur's Gate, Shar is the only evil female greater deity. And a far nastier one that Lolth, in addition
How Shar is more evil then Lolth?
shes the dam spider queen.
While Lolth is indeed REALLY evil, she is a child compared to Shar's exitence, which has eons of wrong-doings for her...
Shar is a primordial goddess, only equaled by her sister Selune in age, as they were created by Ao himself (they are often called the "Daughters of the OverGod"). Together they created the planets, the heavens, the light and the dark, Chauntea, Mystryl, Targus, Moander, Jergal and almost by a chain reaction almost all the other gods and worlds... while Lolth is "just" a secondary deity of ONE mortal race of ONE of the worlds.
Lolth's influence is also largely countered by the Seldarin and cause very few trouble on the surface anymore: some raids, one notable battle once in decades... while each time Shar takes a move, the consequences are dreadful in a totaly different scale...
She caused the fall of Netheril and the sacrifice of Mystril, killed Ibrandul and deprivated this way the Underdark of the good-willed deity the most able to keep it "under control", created the Shadow Weave which allow the most evil spellcasters to use spells without any control of the godess of magic, she devoured her own son Mask, almost turned Sharess into a power of evil, manipulated Cyric to kill Mystra and caused the Spellplague... and she's not over yet
The only reason why Shar somewhat seem "less evil" than Lolth is that there are no reknown author who had make romans about her. But on the Lore, yes, Shar is FAR more a threat to everything that is good than the Spider Queen...
But let's say the thing this way:
- Lolth is evil regarding morality canons and the well-being of people of good... would she win, every non-drow would end enslaved and tortured, and the world would turn into an eternal strife for political power, with a lot of spiders
- Shar is evil regarding the cosmology itself... would she win, she would shut off all the stars, extinguish the sun, killing 99% of the lifeforms due to the drop of global warmth, and build an universe forever void of any light, hope or future
What is the most evil? The one who want dominate you, or the one who want exterminate almost everyone?
Lolth almost always do the same thing... while Shar has always invent a new plan to screw the whole world, that actualy only have been foiled in-extremis at each time, which didn't prevent a lot of damage neverless.
At the start of D&D4, her last plan caused the "Spellplague" due to the resulting death of Mystra and the collapse of the Weave, which killed or turned crazy most of magic users of Faerun, killed almost ten gods, made Abeil litteraly crash into Toril, forcibly merging them together, and litteraly changed the geographical map of half of world
This is only since the start of D&D5, that Ao decided that her daughter had gone overboard, and decided "The Sundering", forcibly separating Abeil from Toril again. He also resurected Mystra and some old gods, including Elistraee, to help her to support the Weave so the death of one goddess alone would never cause such devastation again.
The details of the Sundering are not completly novelized yet, so we don't know how much Shar has lost during this event. Appearently, her Shadow Plane suffered greatly from the process... but she is still refered as a Greater Deity, so Ao probably didn't remove any of her powers.
Lolth had been affected too, unwilingly, because the resurrection of Elistraee is a huge torn returning in her flank.... especialy since, based on what has leaked so far, it seems that Ellistraee could have been granted greater powers than the once she had before, by Ao.
Still, this is a fact that Lolth never caused something even remotely comparable to even one of the multiple commotions Shar provoked... so if you want my advice: go with the spiders, if you have to choose.
maybe there is other side of universel evil vs local evil.
Their targets are not the same.
Lolth is a crual godess that enjoy to see the strife of mortal, see them lost in the chaos.
She is evil in regard of our morality, as she spite on compassion, love, loyalty (except toward her)
Shar is not crual at all, she just completly disagree on how the universe was shaped since her sister created the sun, and battle to return it closer to the darkness.
Even at the start, Shar was a gentle and good-willed (something Lolth never truly was). With her sister Selune, she spend a lot of time creating the universe the people of Faerun knows, and their creations were balanced, half was from the light, half was from the darkness and the sisters were loving each other... but the time came at end when they created the goddess Chauntea.
Chauntea created the earth and tried to fill it with life... but she failed because there was not enough warm to create more than a few really cold resistant beings. She begged the sisters to bring more warmth so life could develop.
Selune, with no ill-intent, opened a gate to the plane of fire to set alight the biggest of the planet, so it would become the Sun and bring such a warmth, but Shar immediatly saw that the light produced casted away her darkness, unbalacing the universe, and sought to protect her part of the creation by extinguishing the new born Sun... and the two sisters for the first time since their creation, fought together.
Ultimately, Shar lost to Selune and Chauntea, and was labeled as "nocive" and cast away when all she sought was to protect the part of the universe she created. Since then, she hates her sister for her betrayal and try to return the darkness its original place in the universe... even if, angry as she is, she could not seek a "balance" anymore, but more a total overthrown of the light.
Shar is libelled evil because her objective is uncompatible with the life as it actualy exist. As she is opposed by every good aligned god, who tries to protect those lifes, they slowly alienated her and pushed her to ally with evil gods like Bane, Cyric and such...
Indeed, lmetting her do would cause the death of the major part of living beings of Faerun, yet, Shar has no hate toward the mortals nor enjoy to see them struggle or suffer... she is the godess of forgetness, and even help the people traumatized by some event of their past, to forget them so they can get better.
To Shar, all childs are welcome, as long they embrace the dark (and this make her cult really more dangerous then the one of Lolth, which only welcome drow females). She even turns some into shadow-beings that would survive even if she suceeded to extinguish the Sun for real.
But still, it is not a change than most people would enjoy, even for survival.
So, Shar is evil... because, more or less, her darkness is uncompatible with the life Chauntea created. Something that can be seen in the after-consequence of every of her plans, which always bring a lot de destruction.
A simple stroke of bad luck, which has comiscal consequences and shaped the god wars since the ancient times.
Lolth just enjoys seeing people suffer for the heck of it.
Lolth hates Corellion for casting her away, but she was the one trying to murder him in the very first place... she's just angry because she failed.