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Enemies immune to vorpal/instant death effects

Hey, folks—

Is there a list of enemies in BG2 and ToB who are immune to vorpal and instant death effects? I assume this includes Irenicus, Bodhi, Amelyssan, and all the Bhaalspawn. Are there others?

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Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,336
    I am not sure there is a list really, but it would be anything that has immunity to opcode 13. I could make a list I suppose...

  • LathspellguestLathspellguest Member Posts: 57
    Cool, thanks for checking into that! Trying to figure out just how useful the Silver Sword can be in the later stages of the game. Prolly doesn't matter since the saves will be much harder to beat in ToB.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    Tresset wrote: »
    Eh, looks like it is mostly plot creatures. There are a few others though. Hindo's Doom +4 actually makes you immune to vorpal hits.

    Cloak of the Lich as well I believe.

    TressetJuliusBorisov
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,336
    Arunsun wrote: »
    Tresset wrote: »
    Eh, looks like it is mostly plot creatures. There are a few others though. Hindo's Doom +4 actually makes you immune to vorpal hits.

    Cloak of the Lich as well I believe.

    Ah! That item did appear in the search I did but I missed it somehow...

    Anyway, I would like to point out that the Kill Target (13) opcode is a bit different from the Slay (55) opcode which is used by most spells. I think there is a lot more stuff immune to Slay than to Kill Target.

    JuliusBorisov
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited March 2016
    ToB dragons are supposed to be immune to slay effects, IIRC, but I may be wrong. SoA dragons were not immune to instant death effects.

    Ravager+6 is the terrifying beast of a weapon that offers no save for its brutal vorpal effect. However you get it too late, unless you get lucked out by the item randomiser mod, which I did in my current game.

    TressetJuliusBorisovgorgonzola
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,336
    lunar wrote: »
    ToB dragons are supposed to be immune to slay effects, IIRC, but I may be wrong. SoA dragons were not immune to instant death effects.

    Yeah, The search I did was for item effects and the majority of those were plot protector items. There are several characters that have the protection from vorpal effect on their character files as well, including most of the named ToB dragons (Saladrex, Draconis)

    gorgonzola
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    Tresset wrote: »
    lunar wrote: »
    ToB dragons are supposed to be immune to slay effects, IIRC, but I may be wrong. SoA dragons were not immune to instant death effects.

    Yeah, The search I did was for item effects and the majority of those were plot protector items. There are several characters that have the protection from vorpal effect on their character files as well, including most of the named ToB dragons (Saladrex, Draconis)

    If I am not mistaken, the green dragon that guards Abazigal's Lair is not immune to Vorpal effect, SoA dragons aren't either, but definitely most ToB dragons are immune to vorpal hit.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,336
    All this confusion probably means I am going to have to make a list now... but not right away. It is a lot of work making lists like this and I don't have the time right now.

    JuliusBorisov
  • LathspellguestLathspellguest Member Posts: 57
    That's rad, Tresset! Thanks for taking the time.

  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 624
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,412
    @Alonso It's a hit that insta-kills. B)

    Alonso
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 624
    @Rik_Kirtaniya: But is it an ability, a weapon effect...? My summoned planetar finished off Illasera with a Vorpal hit and I didn't understand very well what was going on. I couldn't find anything about it in google.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,336
    @Alonso it is a weapon effect. Some of the weapons the player can use have a vorpal effect as well, such as the Silver Sword, the Axe of the Unyielding +5, and the Ravager +6.

    AlonsoThacoBell
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    and also the magically created black blade of disaster.

    Alonso
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    lunar wrote: »
    ToB dragons are supposed to be immune to slay effects, IIRC, but I may be wrong. SoA dragons were not immune to instant death effects.
    they are also immune to imprisonment, i don't know if it is due to the same kill target (13) opcode or for an other reason. they are not immune to flash to stone, maybe abazigal is an exception as for plot reasons has to do a dialogue with charname.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited May 14
    Vorpal hit means decapitation, a vorpal sword is a sword so magicaly sharp that with a single strike it cleanly cuts the enemy's head off. It is instant death regardless of hp. Ofcourse some enemies are immune either through magic, different biology, or plot armor.

    Black blade of disaster has a disintegrate on hit effect, which is also insta-death but in a different way and different enemies are immune to it. It also allows a save vs. death to avoid. Most vorpal hits, including Planetar weapons and Silver Sword +3 have a save (with -2 penalty so it is harder to resist), but most noticably, Ravager +6 halberd is vorpal without a saving throw, making it a surprisingly lethal weapon. (If your party warrior with Ravager+6 is confused/charmed and attacks your party, it is very dangerous! %10 chance of perma-death per each hit!) Also, some (if not all) vorpal effects chunk the character, making them impossible to ressurect.

    gorgonzolaAlonso
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 91
    Ravager +6 is one of my favorite weapons. A pity you only get it so late, since there aren't that many great halberds around early on when compared to swords.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    Dragon's Bane +3, in chap 2, Blackmist +4 and Dragon's Breath +4 (4 different elemental damages and poison) in the underdark, Harmonium Halberd +3 (+1 str) from a merchant in chap 2, wave when you return from underdark.
    Halberds are well represented trough all bg2.

    ThacoBellQuartzStummvonBordwehrsemiticgod
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,813
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Dragon's Bane +3, in chap 2, Blackmist +4 and Dragon's Breath +4 (4 different elemental damages and poison) in the underdark, Harmonium Halberd +3 (+1 str) from a merchant in chap 2, wave when you return from underdark.
    Halberds are well represented trough all bg2.
    All the more reason Kivan should've been in BGII. :cry:

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,358
    edited May 14
    Items generally use two opcodes to instantly kill their targets. Vorpal and destruction effects typically use opcode 13 (kill target, used by Azuredge, Ravager, Silver Sword), but you can also be killed with opcode 55 (slay, used e.g. by Wave halberd, Crom Faeyr, elemental staves, most spells). The only creatures I can think of offhand that only protect against one and not the other are (demi-)liches, as they're immune from op 55 (slay) but not op 13 (kill target) so that items like the Mace of Disruption can work.

    Other common opcodes which can kill instantly are disintegration, petrification, and power word: kill. (PW has its own opcode to facilitate the HP check.) You can also technically die instantly from indirect opcodes if you crank the effects high enough (e.g. damage or level drain) or if you configure them in a certain way (e.g. polymorphs).
    lunar wrote: »
    Black blade of disaster has a disintegrate on hit effect, which is also insta-death but in a different way and different enemies are immune to it.

    Most of the creatures list in Tresset's list get their immunity through one of the plot armor items, which generally protect against all forms of death. Disintegration protection is a little more rare though.

    gorgonzolaMantis37
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 91
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Dragon's Bane +3, in chap 2, Blackmist +4 and Dragon's Breath +4 (4 different elemental damages and poison) in the underdark, Harmonium Halberd +3 (+1 str) from a merchant in chap 2, wave when you return from underdark.
    Halberds are well represented trough all bg2.

    I consider Underdark 'late game' in any case. You're right about the others, but there are many more swords to choose from.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 44
    That was a list of +3 or better halberds. Using the same restriction on two-handed swords, there's Joril's Dagger from an Act 2 merchant, Lilarcor from an Act 2 quest, Harbinger +3 and Soul Reaver +4 in the underdark, Warblade +4 and the Silver Sword +3 in chapter 6, and Carsomyr +5 whenever you're strong enough to go after dragons. Seven swords to five halberds, but two of the swords have further restrictions on who can use them and a third has an ability that most parties will reject. I'd rate swords as a little easier to find, mostly because the Lilarcor quest is something you can do day 1 with pretty much any character.

    Of course, if you're looking to equip a companion ... there's not a single companion in BG2 that prefers halberds to two-handed swords. Three companions (Minsc, Keldorn, Dorn) start specialized in two-handed swords, and none of the SoA companions has even a single point of halberd proficiency.

    Gatekeep3rgorgonzola
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 91
    jmerry wrote: »
    That was a list of +3 or better halberds. Using the same restriction on two-handed swords, there's Joril's Dagger from an Act 2 merchant, Lilarcor from an Act 2 quest, Harbinger +3 and Soul Reaver +4 in the underdark, Warblade +4 and the Silver Sword +3 in chapter 6, and Carsomyr +5 whenever you're strong enough to go after dragons. Seven swords to five halberds, but two of the swords have further restrictions on who can use them and a third has an ability that most parties will reject. I'd rate swords as a little easier to find, mostly because the Lilarcor quest is something you can do day 1 with pretty much any character.

    Of course, if you're looking to equip a companion ... there's not a single companion in BG2 that prefers halberds to two-handed swords. Three companions (Minsc, Keldorn, Dorn) start specialized in two-handed swords, and none of the SoA companions has even a single point of halberd proficiency.

    That last part is the issue. Except for paladins I rarely play a martial class, mainly because there are excellent warrior NPCs (Keldorn, Minsc, Korgan, Mazzy, Anomen etc), while there are arguably less good casters. Edwin and Aerie of course, but Imoen is available too late, Nalia is a second rate Imoen and Jan... Well, he's not bad, but I can roll a better one if I want.
    Since my char is a paladin when not arcane caster, I go for Firkraag as fast as I can. And when you've got Carsomyr, you're usually good for the rest of SoA.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    about the npcs only minsc and valigar can use halberds early and efficiently as they can not put more then 2 pips in a weapon. Dorn and keldorn have better alternatives as soul reaver and carsomyr are super strong weapons, jaheira and anomen are prevented by their classes and the pure fighters have already too much points in an other weapon and as they can have 5 pips it has no sense in not using the weapons they are GM in.
    for the 2 rangers to put a couple of pips in halberds is a viable choice, +6 dmg against dragons and +1 str, that stacks with str enhancing or setting items, are really useful.
    the harmonium halberd is a better weapon then lilacor, when the protection from mind effects from lilacor is not needed, and can be obtained as soon as the party has money to buy it.
    for a charname with 18 str to use that weapon is to have a +7 dmg bonus instead of the +2 his natural str grants. or if charname uses the gauntlets for 18.50 str having less then 18 natural str, not all the players roll for user stats, it is going to +7 from +3.

    harmonium and gauntlets, so jaheira or some other can use the 19 str belt, then dragon breath and finally ravager is a perfectly viable option for a charname and a not dw valigar, that can use the katana to stab or a 2h weapon depending on the situation. for minsc, given his str, the damage gain from the halbert is not so high, but if someone is tired to have him every time with the 2h sword he is not less powerful with halberds.

    by the way both valigar and minsc are much better if dual welding, but as 2h weapon alternatives or when they reach GWW halberd is not a bad choice for them.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 91
    What about spears? I've never really used them, but there are some good late game options it seems.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    edited May 15
    the unicorn one to have some good protection against mind effects, then impaler for high damage and very late ixil, that can pin in place even the last tob boss.
    probably less strong then 2h sword and halberds, but viable weapons.

    if you play with tactics mod or items upgrade mod they are crazy strong, as you can upgrade impaler, for a +1 apr and returning ranged use with items upgrade and you loot from the red badge component of tactics a returning spear that is +5, has the +1 apr and a chance to stun the enemy, even if it lacks the bonus damage of the impaler.
    in both the weapons, like it happens for the vanilla returning daggers, the +1 apr is working also mlee, but as a spear can not be dw why someone would go mlee with them? ranged you don't have to relocate and can focus on every enemy that needs to be take down fast in an instant, and this can be even more useful then doing damage protected by a meat shield, an enemy pass your defenses and approach your casters? take him down from the point you are instead of try to run after him. You use them mlee only if an enemy reach you, as equipping a ranged weapon against a mlee fighter hitting at you has some penalty.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 91
    I'll try those mods, thanks!

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