House DeVir
Cal_El
Member Posts: 56
Greetings,
So couple weeks ago i started to read Drizzt's Novels, starting with Drizzt's Origin story.
The Question i have is House Do'Urden destroyed House DeVir on the birth of Drizzt, with only Alton DeVir the lone survivor who disguised himself as the Faceless Master.
How and where does Viccy come into this? She must of left the Underdark a long time ago, but from BG1 i get the impression she has not been on the surface long?
Anyone have a concept of a time frame? Like how old is Drizzt when he walks the Sword Coast and Viccy must be reaaally old?
So couple weeks ago i started to read Drizzt's Novels, starting with Drizzt's Origin story.
The Question i have is House Do'Urden destroyed House DeVir on the birth of Drizzt, with only Alton DeVir the lone survivor who disguised himself as the Faceless Master.
How and where does Viccy come into this? She must of left the Underdark a long time ago, but from BG1 i get the impression she has not been on the surface long?
Anyone have a concept of a time frame? Like how old is Drizzt when he walks the Sword Coast and Viccy must be reaaally old?
4
Comments
It goes some way to explaining why she behaves as she does, mistrustful, unable to communicate without being hostile, ect.
Just like to add that it is a wonderful story of BG, the writer gets the characters spot on. Backstories that fit and believable reasons for how they appear and behave in the game. The interactions between the various NPC's are detailed and believable, the story lives.
I really can't recommend it highly enough.
I had a vague recollection of House DeVir from the earlier Salvatore novels, I had to look it up to confirm my suspicions.
By 1297 DR, House DeVir was the fourth house of Menzoberranzan. The night Drizzt was born, house DeVir tried to overthrow the third house, House Oblodra (which would later play an important role during the ToT). Of course, House DeVir was not prepared to fend off an attack from a lower house: Daermon N'a'shezbaernon aka Do'Urden. House DeVir falls that night, House Oblodra retains its status, House Do'Urden rises to eighth house.
It is narrated in the novels that most, if not all nobles of the house were killed that night. One notable exception is Alton DeVir, which will come back later in Salvatore's novels. As for Viconia, there is no mention of her in the novels. Since Drizzt was born in 1297, that makes him about 70 years old by the BG games (set in 1368 iirc). By the time CHARNAME meets Viconia in the game, she's at least a few years older than Drizzt. She has to be, because she had to be born before the destruction of her House,otherwise she would have been an outcast all her life, and she clearly states that is not the case. My hunch is that she was old enough to remember her house, but not old enough to participate in the destruction (i.e., >50 years). I'd say she's about 100-120 years old by the time the game takes place. Which means she's still young by drow standards.
Of course @Viconia_DeVir would be able to shed much more light (or darkness) on the topic, but unfortunately I haven't seen her posting on this forum for quite a while.
Her exile happened years or decades before Drizzt's birth, which is in the year 1297 DR, which would mean Viccy is decades older than Drizzt, and she did not witness the fall of her family, she was exiled with the knowledge that sooner or later it will happen. There is no evidence in the Drizzt novels or the BG2 game to prove this, but it is the only logical explanation that I can come up with. On top of that, her brother Valas killed her mother, which resulted in him becoming a drider, and since Viconia's mother is dead and she escaped, that leaves only Ginafae, who was the matron mother of House Devir in the Drizzt origin story "Homeland" and likely one of Viconia's sisters to take the role as Matron Mother and rebuild the DeVir family from the ground up, with Alton being one of her children. While writing my BG2 SoA fan fiction, I tried coming up with ways of tying in Viconia's exile with the fall of her House in the Homeland novel because there are a few plot holes in Viccy's exile story that don't make it fit into the story of House DeVir's fall easily at first.
For example, in one of her romance chats with you about the similarity and differences of drow families and surfacer families, she reveals that she used to have 14 sisters. One she killed for infidelity with her 3rd husband, and the others died young or by Viconia's own hand for unexplained reasons. I then noticed the problem that she doesn't say how many of her sisters are dead. If all her sisters are dead, then there would be no one to take over as Matron Mother after Viconia's exile, the House would be in serious disarray and fall apart long before the year of Drizzt's birth, so it is necessary to assume that at least one of her sisters, Ginafae, to be exact, survived to become the new Matron Mother of House DeVir.
And as for her time in the surface, she would need to survive on the surface world on her own for several years until meeting that Calishite merchant and staying with him for a few decades learning how to speak Common from him and giving him "pleasure" when he wanted it until he grew old in 1368 DR and his heart gives out, and his guards believing Viconia killed him and sent a Flaming Fist mercenary after her, which results in Viconia meeting Charname.
Very possibly Viconia conveniently omitted some details of her own personal history, that could account for the plot holes. Even at the very end of ToB, at the very end of the romance with CHARNAME, she keeps defenses up. Unlikely we'll ever know everything that happened.
She is not in the novels, trust me, I've read them. But it appears these days Wizards of The Coast will allow anything from the games to be canon if they don't contradict anything from FR novels or sourcebooks.
Im sure Drizzt in BG says he is on his way to Icewind Dale, when you meet him fighting the Gnolls. I am nearly on the 3rd book where i believe he finally leaves the Underdark, and as the next novels are the Icewind Dale Trilogy, I assume Drizzt had just left the underdark and started his travels north?
Also, in terms of Menzoberranzan, where is that in terms of location? As it seems like Underdark areas are not all connected? Or is that just the limitation of the games I am thinking of? (BG, IWD2)
As for your first question, warning! Spoilers ahead.
So when you find him fighting gnolls he was probably on an adventure on his own and was on his way back to the North.
As for your second question, here's a link to a detailed map of the Underdark superimposed to a map of Faerun http://40.media.tumblr.com/20250b4f7baf1d6de222ec5bd5ffe4e8/tumblr_inline_o4fyme877x1tqzb4f_1280.jpg
Reference: WotC Underdark (2003): pages 124 & 125.
As you can see, Menzoberranzan is located in the top left, just north of the Evermoor, practically below Mithral Hall: http://www.giantbomb.com/images/1300-1428980
He really did say that he is on his way to Icewind Dale, but the third book of his origins that you're referring to called "Sojourn" takes place in 1347 DR, 21 years before the events of the Baldur's Gate game. However, Sea of Swords is the only Drizzt book that takes place very close to the years the BG games are set in, being set after BG:EE and during BG2:EE, and in the synopsis of that book, Drizzt says in the beginning:
"It is good to be home. It is good to hear the wind of Icewind Dale, to feel its invigorating bite, like some reminder that I am alive."
This gives indication that he has finally reached Icewind Dale after a long journey, because the book begins in the year 1369 DR (the same year BG2 SoA begins in) and ends in 1370 DR, approximately one to two years after BG, and it is largely unknown of what Drizzt has been doing or where he has been in between The Silent Blade (which is set in the year 1364 DR) and Sea of Swords.
I forgot to mention Menzoberrenzan's location. Judging by its placement on the Underdark map, it is safe to say that Drizzt does not need to travel through Baldur's Gate's region of the Sword Coast to get to Icewind Dale, Menzoberrenzan is several miles east from Luskan, it seems, when you cross reference the Underdark map with the surface world map.
Drow outside cage 2: "Now the Mother Lolth has sentenced you to eternal torment in the Demonweb Pits! It is no less than you deserve!"
Drow inside cage A: "No! Have mercy!"
Drow inside cage B: "Free us! Let us out of here!"
Drow outside cage 1: "Free you?! You attempt to sneak into Ust Natha and pass yourselves off as drow of a true House?! You deserve worse than this!"
Drow inside cage C: "No! We are loyal to the Spider Queen! We are her faithful servants!"
Drow outside cage 2: "You are weak and your House was weak, so she cares not. Your House has been wiped from history's eye, and soon so shall you be."
Drow inside cage A: "Bastard! Our House was strong! We were favored by Lolth, we were! We *should* have been triumphant!"
Drow inside cage C: "Yes! Loyal, we were! House DeVir! House DeVir!"
Drow outside cage 1: "House DeVir is nothing. Ashes on the wind. As you too shall be. You should have died with your own matron, in your own city. Now... well, we shall see, and I shall find it most amusing."
Drow inside cage B: "Insolent bastards! This could just as easily be you, fools! Darkness take you both!"
Drow outside cage 2: "No, darkness take *you*! Ha ha haahahaha..."
If drow inside cage B is spoken to by the party: "Look upon us refugees of House DeVir, Male/Female, and know that this too could one day be your fate if Lolth is unkind."
Oddly, Viconia has no interjections to any of this if she is in the party.
I mean, if I were a mostly-amoral opportunist in that situation, I'd keep my mouth shut too.
Indeed, the Devir's themselves wanted Viconia's head on a plate.
Indeed, it seems wise for Viconia to not say anything, however for immersion's sake, when out of the Underdark that situation could of been discussed?
Ps. The reason for House DeVir lose of favour is taken from the Homeland trilogy. I have started reading it.
Indeed, the Devir's themselves wanted Viconia's head on a plate.
I would think that as probably the only surviving noble from House DeVir at that point, that Viconia would be the only chance at legitimacy that those captive drow have left. With Viconia they could theoretically rebuild House DeVir by using her as their matron mother. It would take centuries of course and they might never be as powerful as they once were, but it would be infinitely better than what they have now as captive refugees. Serving Viconia would be the only thing that they could do in drow culture that would make any sense or be socially acceptable.
I really hope that there either is or that someone at some point makes a mod where it is possible to do something about this because I really thought that there should be some way for Viconia to acknowledge/rescue them in the game. It seems incomplete without having at least the possibility for some kind of a solution.
Those DeVir survivors in Ust Natha Tavern would stand no chance of rebuilding House DeVir with Viconia as Matron. Viconia is a fugitive heretic, and Lolth would immediately order every other drow House everywhere to exterminate them if they tried to set her up as a Matron. They'd instantly go from "lost the favour of Lolth" to "hated enemies of Lolth", and there's no way that's a "socially acceptable" status in drow culture. Followers of any god other than Lolth survive in drow society only by secrecy and subterfuge (like Solaufein), not by existing openly as a House.
No, apart from a handful of scattered refugees, House DeVir is gone and there's no way back.
It makes perfect sense for Viconia not to break cover by acknowledging her relatives, and of course they don't recognise her because the whole party (including Viconia) is disguised as a missing Ched Nasadian group, but I do agree that it would've made sense for Viconia to comment on the matter later, privately, away from the other drow.
I was thinking that as the game is right now those prisoners in Ust Natha are probably going to be executed or at best be enslaved in very unpleasant circumstances for the rest of their lives. One of them actually asks to be rescued when spoken to. I think it would make sense if that were somehow possible. Otherwise the suggestion seems rather pointless. Maybe charname could resettle them somewhere, it wouldn't even have to be in the Underdark. I found this thread because I was looking for information about whether there had been any changes made to the quest between when I played in non-enhanced BG2 and the Enhanced Edition, or if any of the Big World Project mods that I recently installed might contain a change involving this plot. It's been so long since I played original BG2 that I can't remember if the drow in the cage suggests being rescued. I didn't think so, which gave me hope that maybe it had been changed, but from reading this thread and others that doesn't seem to be the case.
1- Viconia doesn't care about her family, I mean, for roleplaying reasons she wouldn't feel empathy for them, and she drow have no such family ties.
2-They are all evil backstabbers and their request for salvation was a desperate act, they might even kill Vicky to regain Lolth's favor.
3- That would endanger the whole party, and Viconia cares about survival more than any other party member.
The only reason I see it as a possibility would be if Vicky felt she could convert them to Shar, but that would have to be a much more complex mod, I guess. Nevertheless, she was indeed on character when she did nothing to save the other Devir's.