With the 2nd elf, I actually meant Baeloth. The Elves are called Elves, not High Elves, so there's really no need to give Xan it's own subrace. Drow are the odd ones out, as they hate the other elves, a mostly mutual feeling.
No, I know you meant Baeloth. (There's also Drizzt.) But I mentioned Xan because @Buttercheese mentioned that he/she would like NCP companions to be redone, and that he/she wanted Xan as a Moon Elf. To me though, in 2E, Moon Elves are really not that distinguished from other Elves.
As for knowledgeable, I haven't really ever tried modding BG, so really can't help you there.
Unless you mean background knowledge... I've switched to 3rd the moment it came out, and honestly, looking through the 2nd edition books, there's really little information as to what stats these races have. It's really a lot of "You should play one of the 6 base races. If you want to play a different race, you need your DMs approval, as well as ask your DM what racial abilities to use."
I did mean knowledge, actually. And yeah, the 2E rules are fairly basic. It does make stuff easier to implement, but whatever.
That said, I have no idea what is and is not possible. Stuff like ability score modifiers should be easy. IF you can add them to the UI, but if you need a workaround, like talking to an NPC, it could mean that the racial modifiers would make you no longer meet the requirements of your current race. Then what?
Well, consider a situation where you're expected to be an elf or Half-Elf or human or halfing, such as is required in base BG2 to romance Viconia. If you're now a tiefling, you're not valid to romance Viconia. If the script was done correctly, then race should have been changed, not just the text for the race. I assume that the modder for the 2013 mod I mentioned actually did the work properly. (Though, again, haven't checked their code yet.)
I fail to see how Charisma is a dump stat. I mean, never mind how Sorcerors or Bards like it...
However you make a decent point. To offset, I will probably lower the max number of stats allowed to compensate. So, instead of 18 being the max amount of strength for tieflings, 17 will be. Really, there's no reason for a character to have 20 strength in this game. Same deal for intelligence.
Edit: Actually, I think I'll leave it as before. On further reflection, it'd be too strong. So, I'll be leaving the stats as the same. The resistances will be changed.
(I mean, don't let me dictate what you do. I was just very pleased to see someone with ideas that seemed very reasonable and cool to me, and it pained me to see you swayed to the dark side by the likes of Thels. ) As always, you do you.
No, no, you were right. I mean, the thing is, 3E p&p is a different system. That said, it needed adjustment to fit into this system. For instance, if you look at the 1st post, I now have 10% resistance to fire, cold, & electricity, as per the 3E Planar Handbook. Honestly, I think that bonus is much better than a flat 50%. It'll require a bit more work, but that's ok.
Progress: after upgrading to 2.0, I was able to get Tieflings to display on the character creation screen. However, it's not a selectable race yet. Not sure why yet. Anyway, before 2.0, everything was hardcoded. So, you had to overwrite another race to see new races on the CC screen.
@rapsam2003 , if new races can be displayed during character creation, then half the battle has been won. Does anyone know how racial abilities (other than ability score changes, infravision, thieving skills, and weapon bonuses) are assigned?
For example, how would one add a +10% fire resistance to a new race?
@rapsam2003 , if new races can be displayed during character creation, then half the battle has been won. Does anyone know how racial abilities (other than ability score changes, infravision, thieving skills, and weapon bonuses) are assigned?
For example, how would one add a +10% fire resistance to a new race?
Abilities, thieving skills, weapon bonuses are easy. You find the comparable race file ( talking about .2da files here).
Adding resistances are a bit trickier. The way I'm doing it (and the way others seem to do it) is that you add a "hidden spell" (talking about .spl files here). The spell has no icon (though, if you copy another spell, it doesn't matter. Then, set all the fields. The important field in terms of resistances is the Effects field. So, for tiefling, I added 3 effects fields. Then, I set those to add resistance to fire and magical fire, cold and magical cold, & electricity and magical electricity. I'm still figuring out the rest. I'm more concerned with getting tieflings to be properly selectable before I add in their bonus. Most race mods before BGEE2.0 simply added in subraces/alternate races via dialogues, where the dialogue would fire a specific script that changed race and all the attributes associated with that. I think I will end up using a script to assign the resistances to a tiefling character on level 1. I believe this is what BGEE does for the other races with resistances.
Cleric of Lathander or Cleric of Tyr (new 2.0 kit) don't make much sense to me, because I don't really see a lot of tielfings being attracted to either of those priesthoods.
I'd also say that, for the same reason, giving tieflings Cavalier, Inquisitor, or Undead Hunter doesn't make sense. Of course, Blackguards make sense, and I will likely give them the default Paladin kit (base class).
ALL mage kits fit tieflings.
I don't really see Tieflings becoming Druids. Druids are xenophobic.
I don't see too many tielfings becoming rangers, but I could see them becoming the default ranger kit (base class).
Tieflings bards are definitely a thing, if Haer'Dalis is any indication.
All fighter kits will be available. Sidenote: Barbarian was made a class kit of Fighter in patch 2.0.
Shaman (new 2.0 base class) has no kits, but I could see tieflings as the default Shaman kit (base class). Some tieflings embrace spirituality in that way.
I don't see most tieflings embracing Sun Soul Monk kit, for the same reason as they wouldn't embrace certain cleric or paladin kits.
Sorcerors are definitely something I could see a fair amount of tieflings being, since they already have demonic blood somewhere in their lineage.
Thieves and Tieflings are...thick as thieves.
To summarize, tieflings have the following kits:
ALL bard kits
Default Cleric
Cleric of Talos
Cleric of Helm
Blocked from Druid
ALL fighter kits
ALL mage kits
Wild mage
Default monk
Dark Moon monk
Default Paladin
Blackguard
Default Ranger
Shaman
Default Sorceror kit only
ALL Thief kits
Multiclassed tieflings include:
fighter/mages
fighter/cleric
fighter/thief
cleric/thief
Note that, once I get tieflings working, I will be doing the same kind of thing for the other races.
It's been said one way or another a few times already, but to reiterate, what you want to do as far as creating selectable PC races has never been done sucessfully and is for the most part believed to be "impossible." BGEE v2.0 and SoD probably haven't changed this, but I could be wrong. It's cool that you have a lot of ideas, but mechanically they're not too feasible. For instance, you can easily get someone's race to display "Tiefling," but you can't do that with something like Duergar.
If I were you, I'd play around with RACEFEAT.2da, which features goblins and aasimars, and RACETEXT.2da, which has all selectable races as well as Tiefling. There's also RACE- COLOR/HATE/THAC .2da 's that are important, and of course RACE.ids, but it still looks like race is largely hard-coded and untouchable.
Also, Tiefling paladins????? They have a significant leaning towards chaos, and they're neutral or even evil more often than good, so I would say paladin is the least likely class for a tiefling. Just my opinion.
I'd block tieflings from becoming paladins (except blackguard), druids, and dragon disciples.
Paladins because demonspawn wielding a holy avenger is sheer suicide. Why would they want to smite themselves?
Druids because no druidic grove would tolerate tainted, unnatural tieflings amongst their ranks. They're xenophobic like that. Shamans make a little more sense than druids, if only because they are not tied down to a codex.
Dragon Disciple because it doesn't really make much sense for them to have both fiends and dragons in their family tree. One lineage should be more than enough unique.
Multiclassed tieflings should include fighter/mages, fighter/cleric, fighter/thief and cleric/thief.
Since the Planewalker's Handbook mentions that tieflings may be of any type of mage specialist, I see no reason to limited them here.
No one said Paladin kits or the Tiefling race were impossible to make, but a tiefling paladin is incredibly unlikely, even more so in a universe that only has human paladins. In 3E/4E/5E, sure, you could justify it somehow, as silly as I find that, but in 2E I don't know and DM that would be okay with a lawful good part-fiend.
It's been said one way or another a few times already, but to reiterate, what you want to do as far as creating selectable PC races has never been done sucessfully and is for the most part believed to be "impossible." BGEE v2.0 and SoD probably haven't changed this, but I could be wrong.
If you saw here, you'd see I already can do something that couldn't be done before:
Progress: after upgrading to 2.0, I was able to get Tieflings to display on the character creation screen. However, it's not a selectable race yet. Not sure why yet. Anyway, before 2.0, everything was hardcoded. So, you had to overwrite another race to see new races on the CC screen.
It's cool that you have a lot of ideas, but mechanically they're not too feasible. For instance, you can easily get someone's race to display "Tiefling," but you can't do that with something like Duergar.
Not implementing Duergar anyway, so I don't actually care. /shrug
If I were you, I'd play around with RACEFEAT.2da, which features goblins and aasimars, and RACETEXT.2da, which has all selectable races as well as Tiefling. There's also RACE- COLOR/HATE/THAC .2da 's that are important, and of course RACE.ids, but it still looks like race is largely hard-coded and untouchable.
I need to check out RACEFEAT.2da. I've already messed around in racetext.2da, RACE- COLOR/HATE/THAC .2da, RACE.ids.
Also, Tiefling paladins????? They have a significant leaning towards chaos, and they're neutral or even evil more often than good, so I would say paladin is the least likely class for a tiefling. Just my opinion.
Yes, but at the same time, I do want to give the player the option to be able to choose the base Paladin (think a tiefling who wants to redeem their lower-planar blood). Also, it makes sense to me to for tieflings to become Blackguards, and I'm fairly certain that base Paladins must be selectable for the choice of Blackguards to also be selectable.
I'd block tieflings from becoming paladins (except blackguard), druids, and dragon disciples.
Paladins because demonspawn wielding a holy avenger is sheer suicide. Why would they want to smite themselves?
Well, yes…that’s generally the idea. Although, a point of semantics: tieflings are not directly demonspawn (not like Half-Fiends are; http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Half-fiend ). They had demonspawn ancestors.
Druids because no druidic grove would tolerate tainted, unnatural tieflings amongst their ranks. They're xenophobic like that. Shamans make a little more sense than druids, if only because they are not tied down to a codex.
Yeah, that’s basically the logic I’m going with. I’ll just disable druids for them.
Dragon Disciple because it doesn't really make much sense for them to have both fiends and dragons in their family tree. One lineage should be more than enough unique.
No one said Paladin kits or the Tiefling race were impossible to make, but a tiefling paladin is incredibly unlikely, even more so in a universe that only has human paladins. In 3E/4E/5E, sure, you could justify it somehow, as silly as I find that, but in 2E I don't know and DM that would be okay with a lawful good part-fiend.
I’m gonna have to go with @Abdel_Adrian on this one. If I think about it, it doesn't even make a ton of sense in 3E or 5E. (4E is kind of the exception...to everything; screw that edition.) You can justify it with your DM, but I'd never recommend that a new D&D player RP as a "tiefling paladin". It takes a lot of good RP'ing to pull it off. In terms of Baldur's Gate story...well, the story is definitely not suited to that kind of "far-fetched" RP. The story is open-ended enough to allow you to play whatever. But things like tieflings Paladin as the PC? Yeah, that's really not going to gel well with the storyline, especially since you're Bhaalspawn.
@rapsam2003 You're clearly not understanding me and you're responding as if I missed part of the thread; I've read and understood all of it.
What you have done isn't anything new. I did it too, before 2.0 and SoD. That was my whole point. Tiefling can be seen at character creation, it can't be selected. SoD didn't change anything and you certainly didn't prove it changed anything because all you did was exactly what I did in v1.3. I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm trying to get you to understand the mechanics of races and that you're no further along with a race mod than anyone has ever been. I really wish you luck, I hope it's possible.
@rapsam2003 You're clearly not understanding me and you're responding as if I missed part of the thread; I've read and understood all of it.
What you have done isn't anything new. I did it too, before 2.0 and SoD. That was my whole point. Tiefling can be seen at character creation, it can't be selected. SoD didn't change anything and you certainly didn't prove it changed anything because all you did was exactly what I did in v1.3. I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm trying to get you to understand the mechanics of races and that you're no further along with a race mod than anyone has ever been. I really wish you luck, I hope it's possible.
Well, I'm still going to try. Either way, I'll still be implementing races in some fashion.
Before 2.0 you had to overwrite a race just to view a new race whereas now you can extend the list, but the new races are no more selectable than before. And what you don't seem to understand when I reference Duergar or literally ANY other race is that it's not about that specific race - replace it with whatever race you want to make and you'll see my point still applies. You can see tiefling because they hardcoded that. You can't see duergar/aasimar/genasi/centaur/fairy/ etc etc etc because it simply has not been possible for modders. So even if you can get Tiefling to display at character creation like others have done before, you won't have made "progress" until that race is selectable.
Before 2.0 you had to overwrite a race just to view a new race whereas now you can extend the list, but the new races are no more selectable than before. And what you don't seem to understand when I reference Duergar or literally ANY other race is that it's not about that specific race - replace it with whatever race you want to make and you'll see my point still applies. You can see tiefling because they hardcoded that. You can't see duergar/aasimar/genasi/centaur/fairy/ etc etc etc because it simply has not been possible for modders. So even if you can get Tiefling to display at character creation like others have done before, you won't have made "progress" until that race is selectable.
Great...
How about you take your negativity elsewhere? You misunderstand. I write software for a living. I'll figure it out. Or I'll make a workaround. Either way, it's irrelevant. Don't come in here and tell me what I CAN'T do.
No one said Paladin kits or the Tiefling race were impossible to make, but a tiefling paladin is incredibly unlikely, even more so in a universe that only has human paladins. In 3E/4E/5E, sure, you could justify it somehow, as silly as I find that, but in 2E I don't know and DM that would be okay with a lawful good part-fiend.
Yeah, fiends fighting their nature is completely ridiculous. I'm mean look at Fall-From-Grace in Planescape: Torment. That Avellone guy is a complete hack.
No one said Paladin kits or the Tiefling race were impossible to make, but a tiefling paladin is incredibly unlikely, even more so in a universe that only has human paladins. In 3E/4E/5E, sure, you could justify it somehow, as silly as I find that, but in 2E I don't know and DM that would be okay with a lawful good part-fiend.
Yeah, fiends fighting their nature is completely ridiculous. I'm mean look at Fall-From-Grace in Planescape: Torment. That Avellone guy is a complete hack.
/s
Fall-From-Grace is a LN Succubus Cleric, not a LG Tiefling Paladin, did I miss something?
Comments
Sidenote: if I used 3E rules, I could also justify bringing in warlocks as a class. Warlocks are my favorite class.
However you make a decent point. To offset, I will probably lower the max number of stats allowed to compensate. So, instead of 18 being the max amount of strength for tieflings, 17 will be. Really, there's no reason for a character to have 20 strength in this game. Same deal for intelligence.
Edit: Actually, I think I'll leave it as before. On further reflection, it'd be too strong. So, I'll be leaving the stats as the same. The resistances will be changed.
For example, how would one add a +10% fire resistance to a new race?
Adding resistances are a bit trickier. The way I'm doing it (and the way others seem to do it) is that you add a "hidden spell" (talking about .spl files here). The spell has no icon (though, if you copy another spell, it doesn't matter. Then, set all the fields. The important field in terms of resistances is the Effects field. So, for tiefling, I added 3 effects fields. Then, I set those to add resistance to fire and magical fire, cold and magical cold, & electricity and magical electricity.
I'm still figuring out the rest. I'm more concerned with getting tieflings to be properly selectable before I add in their bonus. Most race mods before BGEE2.0 simply added in subraces/alternate races via dialogues, where the dialogue would fire a specific script that changed race and all the attributes associated with that. I think I will end up using a script to assign the resistances to a tiefling character on level 1. I believe this is what BGEE does for the other races with resistances.
I'm kind of rationalizing based on the ideas presented here: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tiefling#Magic_and_religion
- Cleric of Lathander or Cleric of Tyr (new 2.0 kit) don't make much sense to me, because I don't really see a lot of tielfings being attracted to either of those priesthoods.
- I'd also say that, for the same reason, giving tieflings Cavalier, Inquisitor, or Undead Hunter doesn't make sense. Of course, Blackguards make sense, and I will likely give them the default Paladin kit (base class).
- ALL mage kits fit tieflings.
- I don't really see Tieflings becoming Druids. Druids are xenophobic.
- I don't see too many tielfings becoming rangers, but I could see them becoming the default ranger kit (base class).
- Tieflings bards are definitely a thing, if Haer'Dalis is any indication.
- All fighter kits will be available.
- Shaman (new 2.0 base class) has no kits, but I could see tieflings as the default Shaman kit (base class). Some tieflings embrace spirituality in that way.
- I don't see most tieflings embracing Sun Soul Monk kit, for the same reason as they wouldn't embrace certain cleric or paladin kits.
- Sorcerors are definitely something I could see a fair amount of tieflings being, since they already have demonic blood somewhere in their lineage.
- Thieves and Tieflings are...thick as thieves.
To summarize, tieflings have the following kits:Sidenote: Barbarian was made a class kit of Fighter in patch 2.0.
- ALL bard kits
- Default Cleric
- Cleric of Talos
- Cleric of Helm
- Blocked from Druid
- ALL fighter kits
- ALL mage kits
- Wild mage
- Default monk
- Dark Moon monk
- Default Paladin
- Blackguard
- Default Ranger
- Shaman
- Default Sorceror kit only
- ALL Thief kits
Multiclassed tieflings include:- fighter/mages
- fighter/cleric
- fighter/thief
- cleric/thief
Note that, once I get tieflings working, I will be doing the same kind of thing for the other races.It's cool that you have a lot of ideas, but mechanically they're not too feasible. For instance, you can easily get someone's race to display "Tiefling," but you can't do that with something like Duergar.
If I were you, I'd play around with RACEFEAT.2da, which features goblins and aasimars, and RACETEXT.2da, which has all selectable races as well as Tiefling. There's also RACE- COLOR/HATE/THAC .2da 's that are important, and of course RACE.ids, but it still looks like race is largely hard-coded and untouchable.
Also, Tiefling paladins????? They have a significant leaning towards chaos, and they're neutral or even evil more often than good, so I would say paladin is the least likely class for a tiefling. Just my opinion.
- Paladins because demonspawn wielding a holy avenger is sheer suicide. Why would they want to smite themselves?
- Druids because no druidic grove would tolerate tainted, unnatural tieflings amongst their ranks. They're xenophobic like that. Shamans make a little more sense than druids, if only because they are not tied down to a codex.
- Dragon Disciple because it doesn't really make much sense for them to have both fiends and dragons in their family tree. One lineage should be more than enough unique.
Multiclassed tieflings should include fighter/mages, fighter/cleric, fighter/thief and cleric/thief.Since the Planewalker's Handbook mentions that tieflings may be of any type of mage specialist, I see no reason to limited them here.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42721/npc-mod-sirene-npc-for-bg-ee-v1-0/p1
it's not that impossible.
Although, a point of semantics: tieflings are not directly demonspawn (not like Half-Fiends are; http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Half-fiend ). They had demonspawn ancestors. Yeah, that’s basically the logic I’m going with. I’ll just disable druids for them. Mmmm, good point. That’s my intent, yes. Changed to include all mage kits. I’m gonna have to go with @Abdel_Adrian on this one. If I think about it, it doesn't even make a ton of sense in 3E or 5E. (4E is kind of the exception...to everything; screw that edition.) You can justify it with your DM, but I'd never recommend that a new D&D player RP as a "tiefling paladin". It takes a lot of good RP'ing to pull it off.
In terms of Baldur's Gate story...well, the story is definitely not suited to that kind of "far-fetched" RP. The story is open-ended enough to allow you to play whatever. But things like tieflings Paladin as the PC? Yeah, that's really not going to gel well with the storyline, especially since you're Bhaalspawn.
What you have done isn't anything new. I did it too, before 2.0 and SoD. That was my whole point. Tiefling can be seen at character creation, it can't be selected. SoD didn't change anything and you certainly didn't prove it changed anything because all you did was exactly what I did in v1.3.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm trying to get you to understand the mechanics of races and that you're no further along with a race mod than anyone has ever been.
I really wish you luck, I hope it's possible.
Before 2.0 you had to overwrite a race just to view a new race whereas now you can extend the list, but the new races are no more selectable than before. And what you don't seem to understand when I reference Duergar or literally ANY other race is that it's not about that specific race - replace it with whatever race you want to make and you'll see my point still applies. You can see tiefling because they hardcoded that. You can't see duergar/aasimar/genasi/centaur/fairy/ etc etc etc because it simply has not been possible for modders. So even if you can get Tiefling to display at character creation like others have done before, you won't have made "progress" until that race is selectable.
How about you take your negativity elsewhere? You misunderstand. I write software for a living. I'll figure it out. Or I'll make a workaround. Either way, it's irrelevant. Don't come in here and tell me what I CAN'T do.
/s
Edit: What did you do?! If you're joking, man...I might cry. lol. It is April Fools' here in the US.