Ehh, it's tricky, and it depends on how exact you want to keep the Tiefling to 2nd edition rules.
Either way, unless you change Tiefling stats to be +1 dex, -1 con, you have to inform the player regardless, that there will be additional modifications later on.
Even if decide on +1 dex, -1 con, +1 int, -1 wis, you have to inform the player clearly that he'll gain +1 int and -1 wis post creation.
Yes, I will be informing the player on any changes. For each new race, the player will know what is adjusted, irregardless of whether it's adjusted on the CC or after the fact. There will be text stating which stats are adjusted after the CC screen or when the spell is cast. In fact, there is already for Tieflings; I just need to edit it.
If you decide on -1 str, +1 int, -1 wis, +1 cha, you have to inform the player clearly that he'll gain -1 dex, +1 con to negate the elven bonuses, and then -1 str, +1 int, -1 wis, +1 cha on top of that.
Yeah, but I've decided that is too much to be adjusting 6 values.
How hard would it be to use the half-elf rather than the elf? Half-elves don't have racial modifiers, and their available classes aren't too different. Don't they use the same character looks as well?
Not too hard, but...then...
A few things would happen...
I would have to change Tieflings to be unselectable on the CC race page, to avoid confusion. -- I dislike this idea.
I would switch over the script to check for Half-Elf instead of Tiefling. -- Meh, not hard.
I would switch over the script to give the user an innate ability instead of applying the spell automatically. -- This would be more consistent with the other races I will be adding, but it's not as convenient for the user.
On the whole, I'd rather just keep tieflings branching from elf.
Also I agree that -1 str is a slap in the face in BG. There's quite a big gap between 17 and 18/00, as basically 18/01, 18/51, 18/76, 18/91 and 18/00 are practically ability score values on their own, making that 18/00 more of a 23 score. You could argue that people don't roll that 18/00, but it doesn't matter, since there's a tome of strength. That tome converts a 17 into an 18, but converts an 18/01 into a 19, and 18 and 19 are a world of difference.
Yeah, I would argue that a lot of people DO role 18/XX on their fighters. In fact, whenever I make a pure class fighter (rather than a fighter-mage or a fighter I will multiclass later), I always try to roll for some 18 value.
I mean, look at Khalid. He's actually not that great of a fighter. Minsc or Dorn or Ajantis tend to be better. Why? Because Khalid has 15 strength. He's a fighter, so he doesn't need 16 dexterity, since he can wear heavy armor. Only decent thing about him is )1 his constitution AND 2) some folks prefer to play the good "canon" party with Khalid and Jaheira.
In pnp it's not an issue, since there's very little chance of actually getting a strength of 18. Exceptional strength is that, exceptional. In BG, it's standard.
In P&P, it depends on your DM. It's not strictly "canon", but some DMs allow you to use a point buy system. So, in 2E, you roll 6 times (generally a d20) for your ability points. Then you add the values together. They must be 75, or greater, total. Some DMs are "nicer" and will allow you to take from your 75+ point ability pool and then assign values to your abilities. For instance, if you're a fighter and you roll 12 on strength...well, that's awful. So, your DM may just tell you to set it up how you like. Obviously, you cannot set any ability lower than the minimum number (which varies) or any higher than 18 (which is the same for ALL abilities). Some DMs find it's just easier/more fun to let players do this anyway.
Even 5E, a lot of DM let you use the point buy system. It's just that, since you gain stat points as you level up in 5E, you typically start off with a max of 16 or 17 (depending on race stat adjustments) and add stats where you want. By the time you achieve a value of 20 or 21, all the monsters are of a level where they still present a challenge to you.
@rapsam2003 "I am changing the stat bonuses and thieving skills. Of course, the thieving skills are only changed for thieves. (I added a thief specific block and a "Tiefling Thief" spell called by that block.) The bonuses with swords and bows isn't so easy to change." - This is your quote, I believe, definitely not mine.
I simply don't agree with changing DEX and CON, those are the stat changes for an elf. Tieflings are "supposed to" get +1 INT/CHA & -1 STR/WIS, and you guys know how I love PnP consistency. It is a tiefling after all, so I give them tiefling stats. Anything else feels like a different race under the same name to me. But I digress.
I love the way a max 17 STR limits a fighter kit, who also gets a situational THAC0 penalty. For the first 9 levels, their max stat roll is 107, one less than every other race, and upon reaching level 10 they get up to 18 STR, so the penalty from lvl 10+ is really the lack of fighter 0-100 STR bonus. It fits with the -1 STR PnP model of tiefling, and it can be rectified with girdles and otherwise. The charisma bonus is something tieflings are supposed to get, while Abyssal Warriors receive negative interactions, so I felt I had a pretty justified reason to lose a low-value point of CHA for a much needed point of STR. When you start lowering CHA and adding to the "more important" stats, it's a slippery road to absurd creations.
@Thels You can notify the player in the kit description, if it's done through a CLAB, and then the bonuses get applied within Character Generation the same as the standard races, so it's very clear. Or with a script, I suppose you could just include the info in the readme. The user of the mod should always know what they're getting into, but I don't see this as a large hurdle for any modder.
Half-elf, or any other race (I used human, initially) are just not ideal. A tiefling is, as far as the engine is concerned, an elf. To use any other base model is inviting problems. It's really quite easy to apply stat bonuses/penalties in generation or in-game with a script, so starting with a race that has similar min/max stats isn't important. My elf -> tiefling gets the +1 DEX -1 CON of elves and then -1 DEX and +1 CON from the AW CLAB for a max of 18 in each, as per a PnP tiefling.
What you said about strength is true, and maybe for that very reason my kit would not be considered over-powered. They're forced to have a min STR of 15 for reasons, and that's a really friggen high minimum, so I really enjoy the gimped, but accurate strength of a tiefling and then the overcoming of mortal limits by achieving an 18 STR, very exceptional for a tiefling who can't get 18/0-100 rolls ever. Essentially the bulk of the penalties are applied while you have a potential 17 STR / 107 stat roll, while their true strength shines from level 10+, especially 13, 15, and 20. What they gain for their bonuses feels minor, but I find it to be an incredibly satisfying interpretation of a kit. I did stray from PnP a little bit, so I don't condemn either of you for suggesting to do so, but I guess what I'm not grasping here are the lore and roleplay justifications, as well as a semblance of balance (i.e. not just trading CHA for combat stats just because).
@rapsam2003 "I am changing the stat bonuses and thieving skills. Of course, the thieving skills are only changed for thieves. (I added a thief specific block and a "Tiefling Thief" spell called by that block.) The bonuses with swords and bows isn't so easy to change." - This is your quote, I believe, definitely not mine.
I hate the quote system on this forum. It's so inelegant...and it doesn't help that I have problems reading the text against a black background... /sigh
I simply don't agree with changing DEX and CON, those are the stat changes for an elf. Tieflings are "supposed to" get +1 INT/CHA & -1 STR/WIS, and you guys know how I love PnP consistency. It is a tiefling after all, so I give them tiefling stats. Anything else feels like a different race under the same name to me. But I digress.
Well, technically, your kit would just add +1 Str, so it kind of negates the -1 Str from race. Also, +1 Cha only benefits sorcerers really, as bards generally also want str/dex (meaning their stat values are generally not as high in any 1 stat). I mean, you're right. It's just that I'd basically have to do the following to get the right adjustments: +1Int/Cha/Con, -1Str/Wis/Dex. I don't want the +1Con & -1Dex to sneak up on folks, since all stats are adjusted after the CC screen. It's easy enough to adjust, but still.
Honestly, I'm tempted to adjust to do the following, just to make it easier on myself:
Require the player be human -- for all the races I'm adding.
Give the player a "Tiefling Origin" spell AND require the player to use it.
Adjust stats from a human base for tielfings, so stat adjustments would be +1Int/Cha,-1Str/Wis.
Change the character model to elf for tiefling and aasimar.
I love the way a max 17 STR limits a fighter kit, who also gets a situational THAC0 penalty. For the first 9 levels, their max stat roll is 107, one less than every other race, and upon reaching level 10 they get up to 18 STR, so the penalty from lvl 10+ is really the lack of fighter 0-100 STR bonus. It fits with the -1 STR PnP model of tiefling, and it can be rectified with girdles and otherwise. The charisma bonus is something tieflings are supposed to get, while Abyssal Warriors receive negative interactions, so I felt I had a pretty justified reason to lose a low-value point of CHA for a much needed point of STR.
I'm confused...
Are you advocating FOR or AGAINST the -1 Str penalty? At first, it seemed like you were saying that it's kicking a player in the pants to remove -1 Str. But now you seem like you're all cool with it.
@rapsam2003: I've played quite a bit of 2nd edition, and I've never met a DM that used that houserule. Considering the way 2nd edition's stats are laid out, that's highly abusable.
Yes, later systems came with a point buy system, but: A) buying scores above 14 is generally more expensive than up to 14. I don't recall 5th edition point buy from the top of my head, but if you look at 3.5:
So you could buy yourself an 18, but for that same price, you could buy a 16 and a 14 for another stat, or buy 2 14s and a 12. With about 25 points to work with, 18 is too high an investment.
Besides, 3rd edition and onward dropped exceptional strength, with good reason!
Anyhow, back on topic...
If you plan to only introduce Tieflings, then using the Elf/Tiefling thing is probably most convenient. But if you already plan to add races using Origin spells, you may as well do that for all the races for consistency's sake.
Also, does this mean people can ignore minimum score requirements for certain classes? Say, a Ranger requires what, 13 Wis? What if you roll a human with 13 wis, and then become a Tiefling, having your wis drop to 12?
Oh, and class restrictions... But I guess you could circumvent that by making the origin spells only appear if the player meets the class restrictions for said race? Perhaps there you could check to see if he still meets the ability score requirements post modifiers?
A fighter with a max of 17 STR is a huge penalty, especially since it also prevents them from gaining exceptional STR. It also gives them a lower stat roll than any other race for 9 long levels, since I lowered CHA too. I find this to be one of the bigger disadvantages to the kit, but I love the blend of PnP and the level 10+ abilities that really add some personality, in my opinion.
I kind of feel that the original kit, while wonderfully written, just seemed to be lacking to me. I advocate for the PnP -1 STR of tieflings, but with Abyssal Warriors losing their +1 CHA (which is important for more than paladins, bards, and druids) to reflect their smell and demeanor, and then +1 STR later. Regardless of their stats, the max roll should be 108 so that was part of it. They deal with a slap in the face initially for pretty minor penalties at high levels and some pretty fun demonic abilities, even if they're not particularly useful in most battles.
As a side note, turns out SoD messed up the kits ability to get a free abyssal weapon at lvl 1. Should be an easy fix since I know what did it...but I also want to get around to playing the game lol.
@Thels I don't see how point buying came up, but the conversation has shifted more towards 2e. I'm sure 3e made some good changes that could be implemented in BG, like prestige classes, but 3e stats in 2e is broken.
What you said about the ranger is true, but assumes you made a selectable tiefling, had a gamer pick whatever class they want, intended by the modder or not, and then to pick the min stat roll for a core stat. This would then lower it below the technical min, but this would be rare.
I made multiclass tieflings, it's no different. If you're asking about kits for multiclasses, I did that too but it's not intended for tieflings, it just works because it works for elves.
@rapsam2003 Please, for the love of Bhaal, please don't add the thrice cursed "soul" suffix to the Genasi races. That abomination only came after D&D 4th edition tormented us with its presence... can't we just leave them as Air Genasi, Fire Genasi, Earth Genasi and Water Genasi?
Re: Portraits: Not a good idea. These forums have explicit rules to prevent mods from including portraits without the permission of their creators. Just a friendly warning.
Re: Portraits: Not a good idea. These forums have explicit rules to prevent mods from including portraits without the permission of their creators. Just a friendly warning.
Oh shoot! I think I "stole" a Sarevok portrait straight from Beamdog... So, I guess I'm gonna ask them for permission, this is weird. I'm not making any money off this and it's open source, but I get how big a deal plagiarism is.
@Abdel_Adrian: It came up after I pointed out that -1 str is not a big thing in pnp, because you stand very little chance to get that 18 in the first place, unlike BG, where you can guarantee to have that 18 strength. I was merely pointing out that even with more modern point buy systems, that 18 is hard to get. Regardless, it's off topic talk. There was no intention here of actually implementing anything 3rd edition related.
I personally do not consider "weak during one point of your career, but strong during another point of your career" makes for proper balancing. Even if it would be overall fair, you'd suck a reasonable part of the game, and then be great for the rest of the game. That makes it more of a chore to get a boost, than fun gameplay. It's better if the class is mostly balanced throughout it's career. That said, I don't think the +1 str only appearing at level 10 is making that much impact, but I wouldn't go overboard with it.
I guess you could block origin abilities, if the modifiers included in the origin ability would cause their ability scores to drop below 3, the minimum for their target race, or the minimum for the class they picked up.
As for the multiclassing, it was in reference to @rapsam2003's suggestion to use humans for all the races, and then use origin spells. It just struck me that that pigeonholes them out of both dual- and multiclassing.
@Abdel_Adrian Bioware/Black Isle/Beamdog assets are fair game, within reason of course! So there's no problem using Sarevok's portrait for your Abyssal Warrior kit. However, it would *not* be OK to, for example, just visit deviantart and take it for granted to use any artworks you come across there. Artist already filed complains to Beamdog in the past because of such things.
@Abdel_Adrian Bioware/Black Isle/Beamdog assets are fair game, within reason of course! So there's no problem using Sarevok's portrait for your Abyssal Warrior kit. However, it would *not* be OK to, for example, just visit deviantart and take it for granted to use any artworks you come across there. Artist already filed complains to Beamdog in the past because of such things.
I asked Dee anyway, probably can't hurt. Ugh, I might've taken from Ascension too, idek if I included that or not, but I'll double check the license on that, I think it's public.
@Thels I'm on my phone so I can't get fancy with in-game screenshots, but check out my mod and see if you think that one kit goes from weak to strong. That wasn't my intention and I don't believe that's what it does. The +1 STR is much less a bonus than the partial removal of a penalty, that brings them up to par with other races, but still weaker than other fighters. Then they get one very situational immunity and two spells that are more likely to kill your party than your enemies. Fun, but definitely not overpowered. I'm sure one or two of my kits are OP though....
So you could buy yourself an 18, but for that same price, you could buy a 16 and a 14 for another stat, or buy 2 14s and a 12. With about 25 points to work with, 18 is too high an investment.
True. It's about the same in 5E, although I can't remember the actual numbers.
Also, does this mean people can ignore minimum score requirements for certain classes? Say, a Ranger requires what, 13 Wis? What if you roll a human with 13 wis, and then become a Tiefling, having your wis drop to 12?
Oh, and class restrictions... But I guess you could circumvent that by making the origin spells only appear if the player meets the class restrictions for said race? Perhaps there you could check to see if he still meets the ability score requirements post modifiers?
Probably not possible...although it may be doable via another script. Not worried about it yet.
If I do it via a script, then what would likely happen is that, at some level...say level 7, for example...a script would run asking whether you would like to multiclass your character. Level 7 seems like a decent level for this feature. Later on, if I want to get fancy with it, I can allow the user to choose something like level 5, level 7, or level 10. Those options would likely be chosen at installation.
A fighter with a max of 17 STR is a huge penalty, especially since it also prevents them from gaining exceptional STR. It also gives them a lower stat roll than any other race for 9 long levels, since I lowered CHA too. I find this to be one of the bigger disadvantages to the kit, but I love the blend of PnP and the level 10+ abilities that really add some personality, in my opinion.
This actually is an interesting line of thinking. You've convinced me. Tieflings will be +1Int/Cha, -1Str/Wis.
@rapsam2003 Please, for the love of Bhaal, please don't add the thrice cursed "soul" suffix to the Genasi races. That abomination only came after D&D 4th edition tormented us with its presence... can't we just leave them as Air Genasi, Fire Genasi, Earth Genasi and Water Genasi?
Re: Portraits: Not a good idea. These forums have explicit rules to prevent mods from including portraits without the permission of their creators. Just a friendly warning.
I personally do not consider "weak during one point of your career, but strong during another point of your career" makes for proper balancing. Even if it would be overall fair, you'd suck a reasonable part of the game, and then be great for the rest of the game. That makes it more of a chore to get a boost, than fun gameplay. It's better if the class is mostly balanced throughout it's career. That said, I don't think the +1 str only appearing at level 10 is making that much impact, but I wouldn't go overboard with it.
You wouldn't be that weak. Look at some of the companion NPCs.
I guess you could block origin abilities, if the modifiers included in the origin ability would cause their ability scores to drop below 3, the minimum for their target race, or the minimum for the class they picked up.
As for the multiclassing, it was in reference to @rapsam2003's suggestion to use humans for all the races, and then use origin spells. It just struck me that that pigeonholes them out of both dual- and multiclassing.
At the moment, it does, yes. Multiclass support will probably be a later thing, once everything else is done.
Here's a way-outside-the-box idea: since most of the effect of higher strength is in the form of a damage bonus, and since tieflings are generally vicious, clever folks who love cutting their enemies with blades, you could leave the STR penalty but add a permanent effect adding 1d2 slashing damage to all melee attacks made by the tiefling. Like, you have to figure that even when a tiefling uses a mace or a staff, he's going to wrap the business end with razors.
That would a) retain the penalty without terribly weakening the character; and b) be generally lore-friendly; and c) be unique and cool!
HEY! That's a nifty idea. And it wouldn't be too hard to do. There's already opcodes (effects) that can be added to the spell I have already implemented. Yup, found the opcode on IESDP already: "Stat: Extra Damage Modifier [73]".
I was thinking of a different one: opcode 248 "Melee hit effect." It applies an .eff so you just make up an .eff file that applies the damage.
Ah, good call. Either opcode can be added to my already created spell that gives tieflings their attributes. It's not a problem. I'll think about it and decide which one to go with. My initial thought is that there's no reason for ranged to get a bonus because...well, why do they need it? The concern is melee fighters.
I'm now curious what the difference is between "melee hit effect" and "Melee Weapon Damage Modifier". Any idea if "melee hit effect" is a newer opcode? It's not listed on IESDP.
Ah, I see that now. Here's the weapon damage modifier:
#285 (0x285) Stat: Melee Weapon Damage Modifier [285] Parameter #1: Statistic Modifier Parameter #2: Type Description: Applies the modifier value specified by the 'Statistic Modifier' field in the style specified by the 'Type' field. Known values for 'Type' are: 0 Cumulative Modifier -> Damage = Damage + 'Statistic Modifier' value 1 Flat Value Modifier -> Damage = 'Statistic Modifier' value 2 Percentage Modifier -> Damage = (Damage * 'Statistic Modifier' value) / 100 The effect modifies stat 167.
So, I've decided to release this early version with Tieflings and Aasimars. Tell me what you guys think so far.
I'm going to be mostly playing the game for a few weeks now, I think; get into SoD more. But if you've any reasonable suggestions, I'm open to them. Oh, I tested installing the mod to the SoD directory, and it works already without modifications.
Comments
A few things would happen...
- I would have to change Tieflings to be unselectable on the CC race page, to avoid confusion. -- I dislike this idea.
- I would switch over the script to check for Half-Elf instead of Tiefling. -- Meh, not hard.
- I would switch over the script to give the user an innate ability instead of applying the spell automatically. -- This would be more consistent with the other races I will be adding, but it's not as convenient for the user.
On the whole, I'd rather just keep tieflings branching from elf. Yeah, I would argue that a lot of people DO role 18/XX on their fighters. In fact, whenever I make a pure class fighter (rather than a fighter-mage or a fighter I will multiclass later), I always try to roll for some 18 value.I mean, look at Khalid. He's actually not that great of a fighter. Minsc or Dorn or Ajantis tend to be better. Why? Because Khalid has 15 strength. He's a fighter, so he doesn't need 16 dexterity, since he can wear heavy armor. Only decent thing about him is )1 his constitution AND 2) some folks prefer to play the good "canon" party with Khalid and Jaheira. In P&P, it depends on your DM. It's not strictly "canon", but some DMs allow you to use a point buy system. So, in 2E, you roll 6 times (generally a d20) for your ability points. Then you add the values together. They must be 75, or greater, total. Some DMs are "nicer" and will allow you to take from your 75+ point ability pool and then assign values to your abilities. For instance, if you're a fighter and you roll 12 on strength...well, that's awful. So, your DM may just tell you to set it up how you like. Obviously, you cannot set any ability lower than the minimum number (which varies) or any higher than 18 (which is the same for ALL abilities).
Some DMs find it's just easier/more fun to let players do this anyway.
Even 5E, a lot of DM let you use the point buy system. It's just that, since you gain stat points as you level up in 5E, you typically start off with a max of 16 or 17 (depending on race stat adjustments) and add stats where you want. By the time you achieve a value of 20 or 21, all the monsters are of a level where they still present a challenge to you.
I simply don't agree with changing DEX and CON, those are the stat changes for an elf. Tieflings are "supposed to" get +1 INT/CHA & -1 STR/WIS, and you guys know how I love PnP consistency. It is a tiefling after all, so I give them tiefling stats. Anything else feels like a different race under the same name to me. But I digress.
I love the way a max 17 STR limits a fighter kit, who also gets a situational THAC0 penalty. For the first 9 levels, their max stat roll is 107, one less than every other race, and upon reaching level 10 they get up to 18 STR, so the penalty from lvl 10+ is really the lack of fighter 0-100 STR bonus. It fits with the -1 STR PnP model of tiefling, and it can be rectified with girdles and otherwise. The charisma bonus is something tieflings are supposed to get, while Abyssal Warriors receive negative interactions, so I felt I had a pretty justified reason to lose a low-value point of CHA for a much needed point of STR. When you start lowering CHA and adding to the "more important" stats, it's a slippery road to absurd creations.
@Thels You can notify the player in the kit description, if it's done through a CLAB, and then the bonuses get applied within Character Generation the same as the standard races, so it's very clear. Or with a script, I suppose you could just include the info in the readme. The user of the mod should always know what they're getting into, but I don't see this as a large hurdle for any modder.
Half-elf, or any other race (I used human, initially) are just not ideal. A tiefling is, as far as the engine is concerned, an elf. To use any other base model is inviting problems. It's really quite easy to apply stat bonuses/penalties in generation or in-game with a script, so starting with a race that has similar min/max stats isn't important. My elf -> tiefling gets the +1 DEX -1 CON of elves and then -1 DEX and +1 CON from the AW CLAB for a max of 18 in each, as per a PnP tiefling.
What you said about strength is true, and maybe for that very reason my kit would not be considered over-powered. They're forced to have a min STR of 15 for reasons, and that's a really friggen high minimum, so I really enjoy the gimped, but accurate strength of a tiefling and then the overcoming of mortal limits by achieving an 18 STR, very exceptional for a tiefling who can't get 18/0-100 rolls ever. Essentially the bulk of the penalties are applied while you have a potential 17 STR / 107 stat roll, while their true strength shines from level 10+, especially 13, 15, and 20. What they gain for their bonuses feels minor, but I find it to be an incredibly satisfying interpretation of a kit.
I did stray from PnP a little bit, so I don't condemn either of you for suggesting to do so, but I guess what I'm not grasping here are the lore and roleplay justifications, as well as a semblance of balance (i.e. not just trading CHA for combat stats just because).
Honestly, I'm tempted to adjust to do the following, just to make it easier on myself:
- Require the player be human -- for all the races I'm adding.
- Give the player a "Tiefling Origin" spell AND require the player to use it.
- Adjust stats from a human base for tielfings, so stat adjustments would be +1Int/Cha,-1Str/Wis.
- Change the character model to elf for tiefling and aasimar.
This would make things more consistent. I'm confused...Are you advocating FOR or AGAINST the -1 Str penalty? At first, it seemed like you were saying that it's kicking a player in the pants to remove -1 Str. But now you seem like you're all cool with it. True...
Yes, later systems came with a point buy system, but:
A) buying scores above 14 is generally more expensive than up to 14. I don't recall 5th edition point buy from the top of my head, but if you look at 3.5:
8 (-1) costs 0 points.
10 (+0) costs 2 points.
12 (+1) costs 4 points.
14 (+2) costs 6 points.
16 (+3) costs 10 points.
18 (+4) costs 16 points.
So you could buy yourself an 18, but for that same price, you could buy a 16 and a 14 for another stat, or buy 2 14s and a 12. With about 25 points to work with, 18 is too high an investment.
Besides, 3rd edition and onward dropped exceptional strength, with good reason!
Anyhow, back on topic...
If you plan to only introduce Tieflings, then using the Elf/Tiefling thing is probably most convenient. But if you already plan to add races using Origin spells, you may as well do that for all the races for consistency's sake.
Also, does this mean people can ignore minimum score requirements for certain classes? Say, a Ranger requires what, 13 Wis? What if you roll a human with 13 wis, and then become a Tiefling, having your wis drop to 12?
Oh, and class restrictions... But I guess you could circumvent that by making the origin spells only appear if the player meets the class restrictions for said race? Perhaps there you could check to see if he still meets the ability score requirements post modifiers?
Also, what about multiclass support?
I kind of feel that the original kit, while wonderfully written, just seemed to be lacking to me. I advocate for the PnP -1 STR of tieflings, but with Abyssal Warriors losing their +1 CHA (which is important for more than paladins, bards, and druids) to reflect their smell and demeanor, and then +1 STR later. Regardless of their stats, the max roll should be 108 so that was part of it. They deal with a slap in the face initially for pretty minor penalties at high levels and some pretty fun demonic abilities, even if they're not particularly useful in most battles.
As a side note, turns out SoD messed up the kits ability to get a free abyssal weapon at lvl 1. Should be an easy fix since I know what did it...but I also want to get around to playing the game lol.
What you said about the ranger is true, but assumes you made a selectable tiefling, had a gamer pick whatever class they want, intended by the modder or not, and then to pick the min stat roll for a core stat. This would then lower it below the technical min, but this would be rare.
I made multiclass tieflings, it's no different. If you're asking about kits for multiclasses, I did that too but it's not intended for tieflings, it just works because it works for elves.
Please, for the love of Bhaal, please don't add the thrice cursed "soul" suffix to the Genasi races. That abomination only came after D&D 4th edition tormented us with its presence... can't we just leave them as Air Genasi, Fire Genasi, Earth Genasi and Water Genasi?
Re: Portraits:
Not a good idea. These forums have explicit rules to prevent mods from including portraits without the permission of their creators. Just a friendly warning.
So, I guess I'm gonna ask them for permission, this is weird. I'm not making any money off this and it's open source, but I get how big a deal plagiarism is.
I personally do not consider "weak during one point of your career, but strong during another point of your career" makes for proper balancing. Even if it would be overall fair, you'd suck a reasonable part of the game, and then be great for the rest of the game. That makes it more of a chore to get a boost, than fun gameplay. It's better if the class is mostly balanced throughout it's career. That said, I don't think the +1 str only appearing at level 10 is making that much impact, but I wouldn't go overboard with it.
I guess you could block origin abilities, if the modifiers included in the origin ability would cause their ability scores to drop below 3, the minimum for their target race, or the minimum for the class they picked up.
As for the multiclassing, it was in reference to @rapsam2003's suggestion to use humans for all the races, and then use origin spells. It just struck me that that pigeonholes them out of both dual- and multiclassing.
@Thels I'm on my phone so I can't get fancy with in-game screenshots, but check out my mod and see if you think that one kit goes from weak to strong. That wasn't my intention and I don't believe that's what it does. The +1 STR is much less a bonus than the partial removal of a penalty, that brings them up to par with other races, but still weaker than other fighters. Then they get one very situational immunity and two spells that are more likely to kill your party than your enemies. Fun, but definitely not overpowered. I'm sure one or two of my kits are OP though....
If I do it via a script, then what would likely happen is that, at some level...say level 7, for example...a script would run asking whether you would like to multiclass your character. Level 7 seems like a decent level for this feature. Later on, if I want to get fancy with it, I can allow the user to choose something like level 5, level 7, or level 10. Those options would likely be chosen at installation. This actually is an interesting line of thinking. You've convinced me. Tieflings will be +1Int/Cha, -1Str/Wis. Decided the “soul” thing was tacky anyway. Did not know. Will not include portraits. You wouldn't be that weak. Look at some of the companion NPCs. This will probably be something I look into. At the moment, it does, yes. Multiclass support will probably be a later thing, once everything else is done.
I'm going to be mostly playing the game for a few weeks now, I think; get into SoD more. But if you've any reasonable suggestions, I'm open to them. Oh, I tested installing the mod to the SoD directory, and it works already without modifications.
Note: This is to be considered an alpha.
Also, please see the release thread: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52430/planetouched-races-mod