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My thoughts on the transgender npc

First of all, most people are blowing things out of proportion. It's almost nothing... however...

The complaint in itself is right. It is not roleplay, it does not reflect the world of dungeon and dragon. A transgender person is someone that has a problem they cannot solve since as early as age 5. Now, if you are a DM, you sit at a table, books open, dice ready, and you invite a transgender person to play, who will that person play, the sex that person is in now, or the sex that person wants to be? The answer is the latter. That is why we only see gay or lesbians in DnD, never transgender.

There's some cursed belt but that's it, and it's just in the game as a joke to freak out players a little, nothing more.

This game does not deserve a rating of 0 just for that little oversight, of course. As previously stated, this is overblown. It's a troll wave/joke we've seen on Fallout 4, Dragon Age and Mass effect forums, and this troll wave will rear it's ugly head for many games to come.

Ardulprem0nition1130210semiticgod
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Comments

  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 360
    If you were forced to play Mazhena I would understand your pov, but it is a very minor character, and I think a transexual person can perfectly fit in a world were halfs whatever (like half orcs) are relatively common. I think it wasnt well wrtitten, but I think it is something that can fit into FR setting.

    filcat88
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 348
    Ehh, doesn't matter to me either. As long as the character is useful and can kick some ass. Plus the character needs to be able to do my evil bidding (alignment of no consequence). :smile:

  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    No no, you don't get my point. My point is transsexuals do not exist in DnD, aside from that cursed belt.

    wojtek
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 635
    I think you don't get the whole idea of roleplay.

    semiticgod
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    shawne said:

    Tell that to R.A. Salvatore and Ed Greenwood. I'm sure it'll be news to them.

    I'd like an example. I don't absolutely have to be right on this. Was there ever a transgender NPC in the past, in lore books or DnD books? Someone pointed out a character in pathfinder, but that doesn't count to me. Magically induced sex changes like cursed belts or other spells doesn't count either. I'm talking about the modern day, real life transsexual boy that shops for girl clothes starting age 5. Can anyone give me just one example of that in any lore book?

  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    5th edition. Eww. The one with musket rifles? ...

  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    Thing is, I usually play on these online servers rather than tabletop. And given that any transsexual person, given the chance of playing in a fantasy world, would play the sex he she was meant to be, this means that 99.9 % of transsexual toons on these servers are most likely going to be trolls.

  • simplessimples Member Posts: 539
    Maximvs said:


    I'd like an example. I don't absolutely have to be right on this. Was there ever a transgender NPC in the past, in lore books or DnD books? Someone pointed out a character in pathfinder, but that doesn't count to me. Magically induced sex changes like cursed belts or other spells doesn't count either. I'm talking about the modern day, real life transsexual boy that shops for girl clothes starting age 5. Can anyone give me just one example of that in any lore book?

    just to put this into perspective for you: did you see LGBT people portrayed truthfully (or even at all) 20 years ago?
    just because you don't see us on tv, doesn't mean we don't exist.

    i do feel that including a transgender character does increase visibility. i also feel that the way it was done was a bit clumsy.
    i ALSO feel that the only people who actually have any right to have an opinion on this matter are the people who are ACTUALLY affected by this, namely: transgender people, so you can go ahead and disregard this last paragraph ;).

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Maximvs said:

    given that any transsexual person, given the chance of playing in a fantasy world, would play the sex he she was meant to be

    I don't think that's an assumption we can make. Not every transsexual person tries to "pass" as cissexual. Some publicly embrace their transsexual identities.

  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    Well first of all, thats 5th edition, which Wizards of the Coast hamfisted putting that description of Corellion in.

    The kind of people that would care if a fictional god, in a fictional setting was androgynous are not the type to play DND.

    Second of all, Yes, in a world where magic exists, and wizards can cast polymorph, Druids can turn into animals, and Dragons can have half human offspring, I have difficulty imagining a transgender person who wouldnt immedately just ask a wizard for a potion or a spell to turn them into the gender they feel that they are.

    Especially with a game that has a belt that switches your gender.

    Third, Its not the fact that the cleric is trans thats the problem. Its the hamfisted way you find out. You walk up to them and within 5 seconds of talking, find out they're trans. Its shitty writing and should not be praised.

    OmegawolfSir_Dahaka
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    What you assume people do or don't do on online servers is beside the point, though. You asked for an example; you got it. Wizards of the Coast say it's allowed. They approved Mizhena. Now what?

    Grum
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    Well, a god that does that doesn't answer my point though. I said I wanted one example of an NPC in lore books, excluding anything magical. Gods are pretty much the stuff of magic.

    Can I get a fleshed out example from 3.5 edition or less, within forgotten realm lore books or novel, excluding this game forum, of a transgender NPC?

    This fifth edition is weird. It is not the work of Ed Greenwood, but a travesty of it ( pun intended lol ). Excuse me for being a purist or something, but back in the real, Ed Greenwood days, his world had zero social justice warrior thing going on. There were a few gay and lesbians here and there, and nobody hated them for what they were. Nobody blinked an eye.

  • Incantus89Incantus89 Member Posts: 28
    joluv said:

    Maximvs said:

    given that any transsexual person, given the chance of playing in a fantasy world, would play the sex he she was meant to be

    I don't think that's an assumption we can make. Not every transsexual person tries to "pass" as cissexual. Some publicly embrace their transsexual identities.
    No, hell no. If you are a transsexual there is no greater wish than to be just treated as the gender you identify with.

    There is no "transsexual identity", there is only transsexuals and what they want is either a male or female indentity.

    Then there are intergender people who doesnt feel comfortable being labeled as either, but they are not transsexual.

    The issue with the transgender writing in SoD is that it is written in a way no actual transgender person would ever behave, and that is horribly offensive.

    The people I know who takes the most offense with SJW are the people they are trying to "protect" simply because of the fact that it's belitteling of them to think they need some sort of special care.

    All they want is respect and recognition, not limelight.

    If anything this whole "controversy" has just shown me that people just really suck at truly understanding how non cis individuals actually feel and perceive themselves. And yes, I am speaking from experiance, not as a trans, but I'm still non-cis and socialize with alot of other non-cis individuals. The fact that I have to even use a word like non-cis is repulsive to me, but that is the world we live in.

  • simplessimples Member Posts: 539
    Maximvs said:

    but a travesty of it ( pun intended lol ).

    first of all, this is not funny. not trying to be overly pc, just saying.

    second of all, if someone wants to play a transgender ftm purple-haired, blue-skinned half-pixie, that's entirely their choice.
    have you ever seen a transgender ftm purple-haired, blue-skinned half-pixie in a novel or a source book? maybe not. does that mean they don't or can't exist in your (the player's) mind? nope.

    semiticgod
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Maximvs said:

    Well, a god that does that doesn't answer my point though. I said I wanted one example of an NPC in lore books, excluding anything magical. Gods are pretty much the stuff of magic.

    Can I get a fleshed out example from 3.5 edition or less, within forgotten realm lore books or novel, excluding this game forum, of a transgender NPC?

    This fifth edition is weird. It is not the work of Ed Greenwood, but a travesty of it ( pun intended lol ). Excuse me for being a purist or something, but back in the real, Ed Greenwood days, his world had zero social justice warrior thing going on. There were a few gay and lesbians here and there, and nobody hated them for what they were. Nobody blinked an eye.

    You'd be surprised how many people think Ed Greenwood's own position on this is a "social justice warrior" thing.

    Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. I'm certainly not going to jump through hoops because you add qualifiers to the example you're asking for - it's there, it's canon, it goes back to 1st Edition with Corellon and is in 5th Edition now. You don't have to like it, for whatever arbitrary reasons you claim, but it'll still be there.

    IrishAndroidcraymond727semiticgod
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    Aaezil said:


    That is a picture from the 1st edition d&d book

    But that's not being transgender. If it's possible to change your sex at will with arcane or divine magic then the real-life concept of transgenderism becomes meaningless. Just as Otherkin becomes meaningless in a world where you can actually polymorph into whatever you want.

    One playthrough I got a sex change while fighting the wild-magic imps in Watcher's Keep so I had to finish the game as a different gender. I did however keep the same name.

  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    Add in the fact that gods arent real, and dont hold the same positions as mortals, using correlian as an example just seems wrong.

  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 352
    edited April 2016
    I think the difference is that the girdle is a magical item that was very specifically intended as a prank, which makes SJWs angry, even though they never gave a damn about the game before Beamdog. From what I can glean, this new character is supposed to be taken very seriously, as all SJW propaganda is supposed to be (according to them).
    As somebody who played the original BG, back in '99/2000, I have felt there were some elements of the EE that did not belong. I was not a fan of Neera, she seemed completely out of place with her dialogue and arc. It felt shoehorned in, and did not warm me to her, as she acted very much like a number of people I am no longer friends with. :D Still, I persisted with the game, as it was a version I could play easily on a newer machine, and I have always loved the series.
    This, however, seems to be a deliberate attempt to force players to think like certain people involved with the expansion want them to. If you don't, and if you express your dislike of it, you are automatically labelled a terrible person who engages in harassment, and compels Dee Pennyway to run to Anita Sarkeesian for backup.
    As a true and loyal fan, my suggestion is simple. Stop trying to force your own brand of politically correct gaming onto people who simply want to have a fun time. If it bothers you that much, go make a new game, but your indoctrination is not welcome among most of the community here.

    Baeloth_JnrSir_Dahaka
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    I think the difference is that the girdle is a magical item that was very specifically intended as a prank, which makes SJWs angry, even though they never gave a damn about the game before Beamdog.

    Now, see, if you're going to start out strong and wrong, there's just nowhere to go but down from there. Some of the people you're labeling "SJWs" have been playing BG for just as long as you have, can tell you every single detail about the game, and probably crush you in a multiplayer fight without breaking a sweat. Stop inventing weak phantom opponents to make yourself seem better by comparison.

  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    shawne said:



    You'd be surprised how many people think Ed Greenwood's own position on this is a "social justice warrior" thing..

    Exactly as I remembered it. Ed Greenwood says there's just a little hate going on, because in the end it's no big deal, there are festhalls with gay, bisexuals, bestiality and orgies but does not mention any transsexuals.

  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 352
    edited April 2016
    I can tell you're fun at parties.
    There's no phantom opponent, as you put it. If there were SJWs playing this game at the beginning, you would've heard about it by now. Why would they play something they find so obviously offensive?
    These people will go out of their way to be offended by anything they can. And they will flip-flop like a politician to try and manipulate others.

  • BaldurBaldur Member Posts: 54
    I do remember that there's a transgendered Arcanaloth in the Planescape setting. Is apparently male, but identifies as female - and will actually murder you if you call them 'he' or the likes. But it was never made into a major issue, and was more of just a piece of basic, simple 'rumor-mill' type of stuff that the lore put forth. In other words, the Arcanaloth in question wasn't DEFINED by their transgendered nature, they just happened to identify as female.

    Speaking as a DM, really, that's what I tend to take issue with more than anything. If you are deliberately setting out to make a character who is transgendered, you are almost (keyword: ALMOST) always doing it for the attention of having a transgendered character. Now, I don't believe for a moment that it is somehow impossible to create a transgendered character in D&D and to play it well, to do so without making the transgendered nature of the character the core and sole aspect of them.. for that matter, I imagine they'd have the skill and tact to outright avoid having their transgendered nature highlighted. However, the vast majority of people who are going to do so? They're doing it with the intent of making some kind of gesture or display of it.

    Magnus_GrelichSir_DahakaGrum
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    Baldur said:

    I do remember that there's a transgendered Arcanaloth in the Planescape setting.

    Can you find an example within the whole human-half elf-elf-gnome-halfling-half orc-dwarf thing?

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited April 2016
    Maximvs said:

    No no, you don't get my point. My point is transsexuals do not exist in DnD, aside from that cursed belt.

    They don't what now?



    Forget 5E. That's from ADnD 1E.
    Reposted from a previous thread, I posted it on.

    (@Aaezil A heads-up would have been appreciated. ;))

    As for the argument: "He's a god, he's using magic, it doesn't count", if it's fine to have such a god in the Realms plus magic items or spells that change your gender, then people with NO access to such spells or items (for various reasons) would try to change their gender mundanely.

    It's exactly the same thing.

    It's arguing that there is no flint and steel because there is magic around to light things on fire.
    Or that there are no medics around with healing kits because Clerics.
    It's absurd.

    JuliusBorisovDeismashedtatersfilcat88
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    I've already answered that picture. It's a god. There's magic involved. The whole transsexual social justice warrior thing is based on the real life version of a transsexual.

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