Am I the only person who just .. didn't notice anything when I played the game? I met, spoke to, and moved on from Mizhena without so much as batting an eye. This is really the first instance I've seen of their being a problem. I'm stunned, honestly. I haven't heard the Minsc comment yet, tho, as I generally don't include him in my party. Or is this uproar entirely about the GG comment itself? Color me confused.
I think if you go back through my post history, you'll find I've been rather pleasant about this entire fiasco, unlike what you've been doing. If you can't refute my points without pointing and labeling, then I suggest you take a look inward instead before you post.
Who's pointing and labeling? The fact that you self-identify as a GGer is your business, not mine.
Am I the only person who just .. didn't notice anything when I played the game? I met, spoke to, and moved on from Mizhena without so much as batting an eye. This is really the first instance I've seen of their being a problem. I'm stunned, honestly. I haven't heard the Minsc comment yet, tho, as I generally don't include him in my party. Or is this uproar entirely about the GG comment itself? Color me confused.
You don't notice it, unless you are aware of the social justice-movement and gamergate. the moment you get in contact with it, you will get perceptive to content tied to it. e.g. in my playthrough i had no clue, that minsc's "ethics in heroic adventuring" is a jab at gamergate, heck i didn't even know what gamergate was. and mizhana didn't really surprise me either, it's been occasionally practiced in medieval europe, that a daughter was treated like a son, if the family had none. only after reading the first user "reviews" i realized what was going on.
I think if you go back through my post history, you'll find I've been rather pleasant about this entire fiasco, unlike what you've been doing. If you can't refute my points without pointing and labeling, then I suggest you take a look inward instead before you post.
Who's pointing and labeling? The fact that you self-identify as a GGer is your business, not mine.
Yes, and you can't seem to formulate any opinion beyond that. It's like your brain sees "GG" and just stops functioning, and then you (sadly) hit the post button. I want Beamdog to work through these issues just as much as you do, that's why I'm here offering my opinion on this. Surely at some point we can come to the conclusion and agree that Baldur's Gate as a whole is too important to be used as a pawn by either GamerGate or Amber Scott in the ongoing culture war bullshit, right?
I don't really care if Beamdog changes the content or doesn't, I just want them to treat all Baldur's Gate fans with respect and dignity. If they fucked up by insulting a cadre of BG fans, then they should own up to it, at least IMO.
I think if you go back through my post history, you'll find I've been rather pleasant about this entire fiasco, unlike what you've been doing. If you can't refute my points without pointing and labeling, then I suggest you take a look inward instead before you post.
Who's pointing and labeling? The fact that you self-identify as a GGer is your business, not mine.
Yes, and you can't seem to formulate any opinion beyond that. It's like your brain sees "GG" and just stops functioning, and then you (sadly) hit the post button. I want Beamdog to work through these issues just as much as you do, that's why I'm here offering my opinion on this. Surely at some point we can come to the conclusion and agree that Baldur's Gate as a whole is too important to be used as a pawn by either GamerGate or Amber Scott in the ongoing culture war bullshit, right?
I don't really care if Beamdog changes the content or doesn't, I just want them to treat all Baldur's Gate fans with respect and dignity. If they fucked up by insulting a cadre of BG fans, then they should own up to it, at least IMO.
I think if you go back through my post history, you'll find I've been rather pleasant about this entire fiasco, unlike what you've been doing. If you can't refute my points without pointing and labeling, then I suggest you take a look inward instead before you post.
Who's pointing and labeling? The fact that you self-identify as a GGer is your business, not mine.
Yes, and you can't seem to formulate any opinion beyond that. It's like your brain sees "GG" and just stops functioning, and then you (sadly) hit the post button. I want Beamdog to work through these issues just as much as you do, that's why I'm here offering my opinion on this. Surely at some point we can come to the conclusion and agree that Baldur's Gate as a whole is too important to be used as a pawn by either GamerGate or Amber Scott in the ongoing culture war bullshit, right?
I don't really care if Beamdog changes the content or doesn't, I just want them to treat all Baldur's Gate fans with respect and dignity. If they fucked up by insulting a cadre of BG fans, then they should own up to it, at least IMO.
You are one of the good ones.
I mean, *yes* I know that some GG folk get ahead of themselves. A crusade to cleanse the land of all that is social justice. I can understand why they want to, but I don't always agree with their methods. GG can do some good when they put their minds to it, like helping the developer behind Afterlife Empire (a woman, even!), or defending Witcher 3 against calls of racism or sexism.
But I don't appreciate the ire of the games media saying we're all misogynists or racists or sexists, because that word gets spread too easily, and I personally think it's incorrect.
To be blunt, I have looked at our uniforms, and I haven't found that we're wearing skulls, at least yet!
Am I the only person who just .. didn't notice anything when I played the game? I met, spoke to, and moved on from Mizhena without so much as batting an eye. This is really the first instance I've seen of their being a problem. I'm stunned, honestly. I haven't heard the Minsc comment yet, tho, as I generally don't include him in my party. Or is this uproar entirely about the GG comment itself? Color me confused.
You don't notice it, unless you are aware of the social justice-movement and gamergate. the moment you get in contact with it, you will get perceptive to content tied to it. e.g. in my playthrough i had no clue, that minsc's "ethics in heroic adventuring" is a jab at gamergate, heck i didn't even know what gamergate was. and mizhana didn't really surprise me either, it's been occasionally practiced in medieval europe, that a daughter was treated like a son, if the family had none. only after reading the first user "reviews" i realized what was going on.
it is way overblown. it is ridiculous.
I thought Mizhana's dialog was a bit odd given that I'd just met the character, but once I lowered my eyebrow and replaced my monocle, I went right on playing and enjoying SoD. The overall feel of the game is remarkably similar to the originals, and that's a high compliment - from me, at least. I very much hope Beamdog have the opportunity to work further with the license and the engine.
Yes, and you can't seem to formulate any opinion beyond that. It's like your brain sees "GG" and just stops functioning, and then you (sadly) hit the post button.
So what you're saying is, I'm behaving like a GGer who sees "SJW". That's rich.
Unfortunately, we're not going to agree on anything here, because you have the gall to sit here and talk about how fans need to be treated with respect, as if respect has ever been part of the GG discourse, as if they're not vilifying Amber Scott right now like she's the sole source of your problems.
You want respect and dignity? Earn it. Let's see you go after Wizards of the Coast as the license owners who signed off on the "culture war" content you find so objectionable. Go ahead, send them your angry e-mails and letter-rants, so you can see just how inconsequential GG really is to the people who make decisions in this industry, how little respect those decision-makers have for you.
Or you can talk some more about how SJWs are ruining your childhood. Loads of dignity in that, right?
Yes, and you can't seem to formulate any opinion beyond that. It's like your brain sees "GG" and just stops functioning, and then you (sadly) hit the post button.
So what you're saying is, I'm behaving like a GGer who sees "SJW". That's rich.
Unfortunately, we're not going to agree on anything here, because you have the gall to sit here and talk about how fans need to be treated with respect, as if respect has ever been part of the GG discourse, as if they're not vilifying Amber Scott right now like she's the sole source of your problems.
You want respect and dignity? Earn it. Let's see you go after Wizards of the Coast as the license owners who signed off on the "culture war" content you find so objectionable. Go ahead, send them your angry e-mails and letter-rants, so you can see just how inconsequential GG really is to the people who make decisions in this industry, how little respect those decision-makers have for you.
Or you can talk some more about how SJWs are ruining your childhood. Loads of dignity in that, right?
Again, I'm in this trying to help, and I think you've shown your true colors by this post. You're not going to get a rise out of me, shawne, and I think this is the last I'll respond to you.
Enjoy Siege of Dragonspear, and enjoy Baldur's Gate. Good travels, bud.
Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...
shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.
IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.
It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
Out of curiosity, how does Minsc's line insult you? The original complaint against it was from an anti-GG person who was upset that Minsc was being associated with GG. I wouldn't be upset if Minsc said like "Making Adventuring Great Again" or "An Adventuring Revolution Is Coming" to parody some US presidential slogans. Not saying you can't feel insulted, I'm just having trouble how it follows.
Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...
shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.
IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.
It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
Out of curiosity, how does Minsc's line insult you? The original complaint against it was from an anti-GG person who was upset that Minsc was being associated with GG. I wouldn't be upset if Minsc said like "Making Adventuring Great Again" or "An Adventuring Revolution Is Coming" to parody some US presidential slogans. Not saying you can't feel insulted, I'm just having trouble how it follows.
A common anti-GG insult meme throughout the past couple years has been "Really, it's about Ethics in __________". A mildly well-known example was the new female Thor saying to someone "Actually, it's about ETHICS IN HAMMER WIELDING" (yeah...I dunno either).
Anyway, it's an anti-GG meme made to annoy GGers who have, due to the media bias against us (either real or perceived, your choice, but we think it's real) had to tell people that we aren't about misogyny and racism, etc, we're about "ethics in gaming journalism". So they decided to turn that into an insult meme.
Basically, it's not so much a deadly insult or anything, but to me it strikes me as a not so subtle way of the writer saying "Hey, look at me. I don't like GamerGate, and I'm using a character you love to express that to you. LOLENJOY"
(As a side note: MAKE ADVENTURING GREAT AGAIN is fucking hilarious, man. I chuckled pretty good at that.)
[...]the media bias against us (either real or perceived, your choice, but we think it's real) had to tell people that we aren't about misogyny and racism, etc, we're about"ethics in gaming journalism". So they decided to turn that into an insult meme.
Media bias? Are you saying that the threats, the harassment and the doxxing aren't true? That there's a conspiracy among journalists resorting to smear tactics?
Look, it doesn't matter if you stand for ethics in gaming journalism, for the end of the Palestine conflict or the eradication of world hunger. Claiming that you stand for a good cause or that you have the best of intentions does not give you a free pass at hate speech and online harassment.
I can only speak for myself but I am having a great time. I am also not reviewing until I finish the game. I will also have to sit down and write the review for an evening at least and proof read the next morning and afternoon. I won't post a "Yeah this is the best, buy it now!" or a "OMG SJW BS WTF FTBC DNB!" type of review. Most of these low brow venomous hate campaigners are posting reviews without having played the game from start to finish. Plenty of positive reviews are doing the same. I don't think either is a quality use of time.
I have a feeling there are more people like me that actually want to see an entire play through before voicing an opinion and when that opinion is voiced it is likely to be apparent who has played the game and who has not.
And just to be really clear I am firmly on Team Amber Scott/Trent Oster/Dee/AlloftheAwesomePeople at Beamdog.
Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...
shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.
IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.
It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
Out of curiosity, how does Minsc's line insult you? The original complaint against it was from an anti-GG person who was upset that Minsc was being associated with GG. I wouldn't be upset if Minsc said like "Making Adventuring Great Again" or "An Adventuring Revolution Is Coming" to parody some US presidential slogans. Not saying you can't feel insulted, I'm just having trouble how it follows.
A common anti-GG insult meme throughout the past couple years has been "Really, it's about Ethics in __________". A mildly well-known example was the new female Thor saying to someone "Actually, it's about ETHICS IN HAMMER WIELDING" (yeah...I dunno either).
Anyway, it's an anti-GG meme made to annoy GGers who have, due to the media bias against us (either real or perceived, your choice, but we think it's real) had to tell people that we aren't about misogyny and racism, etc, we're about "ethics in gaming journalism". So they decided to turn that into an insult meme.
Basically, it's not so much a deadly insult or anything, but to me it strikes me as a not so subtle way of the writer saying "Hey, look at me. I don't like GamerGate, and I'm using a character you love to express that to you. LOLENJOY"
(As a side note: MAKE ADVENTURING GREAT AGAIN is fucking hilarious, man. I chuckled pretty good at that.)
See if Minsc was saying the line sarcastically, I could see that. But he's being earnest with it. He really does believe in ethics heroic adventuring. If anything the line feels like it's validating GG, but that's just my opinion.
[...]the media bias against us (either real or perceived, your choice, but we think it's real) had to tell people that we aren't about misogyny and racism, etc, we're about"ethics in gaming journalism". So they decided to turn that into an insult meme.
Media bias? Are you saying that the threats, the harassment and the doxxing aren't true? That there's a conspiracy among journalists resorting to smear tactics?
Look, it doesn't matter if you stand for ethics in gaming journalism, for the end of the Palestine conflict or the eradication of world hunger. Claiming that you stand for a good cause or that you have the best of intentions does not give you a free pass at hate speech and online harassment.
Most of Gamergate acknowledges that trolls and assholes will use our name in order sully our main goal. As a result of this, we condemn the people that do these actions. But under the guise of anonymity who can say who is REALLY in Gamergate or not.
Any criticism and "harassment" (Disagreement) of people such as Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkessian or any of the big named "Enemies of Gamergate" will blame anything and everything on them, regardless if they had anything to do with it or not.
Gamergate has become a scapegoat. I mean you yourself think all we do is post hate speech and harassment. Where did you get that idea? The main line media of course. I bet you never actually did any research into what Gamergate is about and just saw everyone calling them harassers and agreed with that.
And then you looked at debacles like this current one and immediately decided anyone who spoke out against it was associated with Gamergate. regardless of if they are or not.
Granted there are a lot of people on these forums who are associated with Gamergate that have talked about the issues on this forum, but there are those that arent as well.
I mean, Gamergate was recently blamed for the whole situtation with Alison Rapp in Nintendo, despite Nintendo, and Gamergate at large saying they had nothing to do with it.
But sure, go on, take the moral high ground. Write off everyone who associates with gamergate as a harasser, dehumanize them and invalidate their opinion.
Zaphas was quite civil throughout this thread, and you burn him at the stake for being associated with so called "hate speech and harassment"
I believe a lot of us are being bothered by petty matters, really. SoD is a HUGE project for Beamdog. It's bigger than all three EEs at once. And every EE had poorly written lines of their own, and not so few to be honest. Denying that Beamdog drastically improved - I am not saying it is perfect - compared to EE is quite certainly wrong. They still have some way to go but they definitely improved.
Besides, when I first played the game and met the infamous Mizhena, my thought were "not so great a writing, but nevermind, the game is great so far" and went on ahead, and was not disappointed again (that Minsc line did not sound that wrong to me). Over the thousands of lines Beamdog wrote for that game, 10 might have been wrong. Ok, but when everything else is good it might lead you to giving 8/10 instead of 9, for example but not 0. BG should not be a political field, and any attempt at making it a political battleground should be ignored. If there is one thing I do not care about when playing BG, it most certainly is what is correct and what is incorrect.
And I would also like to remind you guys that WotC approved all of this, and they are not known for being any loose on the content they approve. If there is something they disapprove, they block it.
Just because WOTC signed off on it, does not mean they knew what they were getting into.
There are thousands of lines of dialogue in the game, I doubt they understand the gamergate reference or knew what kind of shit storm it would bring up.
So we have two options.
1.) Wizards was ignorant of the context of the line
This is perfectly possible as unless you were intimately familiar with Gamergate or social justice as a whole you wouldnt get the reference, as several people here did not even know about Gamergate until this controversy.
2.) They knew, and deliberately signed off on it
This is the worse option, which means that aGGro's work at Wizards, and as such, they should reap what they sow.
If they knew the context of the line, they would know it would create a huge media outcry, generating page views and mouse clicks
You know what they say "Theres no such thing as bad publicity" Though, people will then refuse to purchase your product.
You said it yourself, one needs to be intimately familiar with Gamergate/Social Justice to get the reference. Are we even sure at all there is any reference? This sounds like a dull matter that became a big deal for possibly (I'd say probably) no reason.
You said it yourself, one needs to be intimately familiar with Gamergate/Social Justice to get the reference. Are we even sure at all there is any reference? This sounds like a dull matter that became a big deal for possibly (I'd say probably) no reason.
Yeah I know, but the fact that the quote is specifically anti-gamergate and was meant to rib us, is why people are so mad.
Most of Gamergate acknowledges that trolls and assholes will use our name in order sully our main goal. As a result of this, we condemn the people that do these actions. But under the guise of anonymity who can say who is REALLY in Gamergate or not.
Really? How interesting! Because I don't see any "official" condemnation of review-bombing on KIA. I don't see any acknowledgement that giving a game a 0/10 after playing it for 9 minutes is in no way a representation of ethics in journalism. What I do see are lots and lots of screenshots of reactionary, transphobic Steam comments and a post praising Nate Church - who actively distorted events to suit his narrative by claiming Amber Scott's Kotaku interview happened after the game was released (thereby contextualizing it as a response to criticism when it was nothing of the sort).
If you claim to represent the "real" GamerGate, let's see you put your money where your mouth is. Take a stand against review-bombing. Or keep whining about how your poor little movement is being vilified for things you're actually doing. Your choice.
Really? How interesting! Because I don't see any "official" condemnation of review-bombing on KIA. I don't see any acknowledgement that giving a game a 0/10 after playing it for 9 minutes is in no way a representation of ethics in journalism.
Really? Where? Because I see screenshots of the stream forum of people actually bringing up good points.
I could go on, but you get the picture. These are legit critcisms of the game, which is poor fucking writing that reeks of tokenism. One of those is from an actual trans person.
What I do see are lots and lots of screenshots of reactionary, transphobic Steam comments and a post praising Nate Church - who actively distorted events to suit his narrative by claiming Amber Scott's Kotaku interview happened after the game was released (thereby contextualizing it as a response to criticism when it was nothing of the sort).
Im sure you do.
If you claim to represent the "real" GamerGate, let's see you put your money where your mouth is. Take a stand against review-bombing. Or keep whining about how your poor little movement is being vilified for things you're actually doing. Your choice.
Its not review bombing if the writing is actually shit, if the game is riddled with bugs, if the multiplayer and the mods dont work.
Oh my God, this is gold. You're shooting your whole movement in the foot and you don't even see it.
So let's sum up:
1) You have no response to people who have taken screenshots of themselves playing the game for nine minutes and then giving it a negative review (which cannot, by any means, be taken as a factual representation of any kind of real experience with any product).
2) You cherry-pick Steam responses while having no response for people you allege are falsely using GG to explicitly argue transphobic positions.
3) You talk about tokenism, and your next sentence is "One of those is from an actual trans person". Maybe they don't all think alike? Hmm.
4) You link to Carl Batchelor, who does the exact same thing Church did by suggesting the Kotaku interview was a response to the backlash when it happened months earlier. You are supporting a "journalist" who is lying about the chain of events to support his narrative.
But sure, tell us how it's all about ethics in games journalism. Because that's clearly what GamerGate really stands for.
1) You have no response to people who have taken screenshots of themselves playing the game for nine minutes and then giving it a negative review (which cannot, by any means, be taken as a factual representation of any kind of real experience with any product).
Where is your proof that they have only played for 9 minutes? People only needed to play as long as they could to find the shit that was wrong with it.
The shit tier writing and the mentioned bugs.
2) You cherry-pick Steam responses while having no response for people you allege are falsely using GG to explicitly argue transphobic positions.
Where is your proof people spouting transphobic positions COME from gamergate? Just because they are anti-sjw?
A random steam user screaming "I dont want trannies in my game" doesnt make them gamergaters.
3) You talk about tokenism, and your next sentence is "One of those is from an actual trans person". Maybe they don't all think alike? Hmm.
Well typically when you write about a person with a particular gender identity or sexual preference you tend to take their opinions over people that dont have them.
As far as I know, the Siege of Dragonspear writers are CIS, and yet wrote a trans cleric into their game so they could check off "Diverse" in their little portfolios.
Trans people dont like the fact that they are trans to be brought up. They want to be accepted like everyone else A trans person would not in two seconds of meeting you decree they are trans.
I highly doubt that the writers of Siege of Dragonspear consulted an actual trans person when writing her into the story.
4) You link to Carl Batchelor, who does the exact same thing Church did by suggesting the Kotaku interview was a response to the backlash when it happened months earlier. You are supporting a "journalist" who is lying about the chain of events to support his narrative.
Where is your proof people spouting transphobic positions COME from gamergate? Just because they are anti-sjw? A random steam user screaming "I dont want trannies in my game" doesnt make them gamergaters.
Of course not. It's clearly not your fault that these torrents of vitriolic posts happen to whomever you guys turn your attention to. Just a collateral effect of trolls who want to discredit your movement. And the fact that you only seem to show up when female professionals get a little outspoken? Just a coincidence, of course.
Where is your proof people spouting transphobic positions COME from gamergate? Just because they are anti-sjw? A random steam user screaming "I dont want trannies in my game" doesnt make them gamergaters.
Of course not. It's clearly not your fault that these torrents of vitriolic posts happen to whomever you guys turn your attention to. Just a collateral effect of trolls who want to discredit your movement. And the fact that you only seem to show up when female professionals get a little outspoken? Just a coincidence, of course.
Well its primarily females, because you know, Third wave feminists and SJWS in general tend to be female, they're not called tumblrinas for nothing.
We've butted heads against our fair share of males as well. Tim Schafer and the Pseudo-Intellectuals at Extra Credits to name but a few.
Anything Social Justice gets SOMEONE vitriolic.
SJWS have certainly had their own outcries.
There was that time SJWS cried sexism on Divinity Original Sin for having boob plate armor, or when Pillars of Eternity had that vague poem that could be construed as 'Transmisognist" if you squinted hard enough
(Wow CRPGS seem to be a breeding ground for shit like this)
Then there was the censorship of Dead or Alive 3, until Play Asia picked it up.
The change to R.Mikas butt slap in Street Fighter V, and the change in Tracers pose in Overwatch.
Dont try and sit there and pretend we're the ones who throw temper tantrums.
Anything and everything that gets media attention attracts trolls regardless of their affiliation. Especially if its someones ideology on the line.
Comments
e.g. in my playthrough i had no clue, that minsc's "ethics in heroic adventuring" is a jab at gamergate, heck i didn't even know what gamergate was. and mizhana didn't really surprise me either, it's been occasionally practiced in medieval europe, that a daughter was treated like a son, if the family had none.
only after reading the first user "reviews" i realized what was going on.
it is way overblown. it is ridiculous.
I don't really care if Beamdog changes the content or doesn't, I just want them to treat all Baldur's Gate fans with respect and dignity. If they fucked up by insulting a cadre of BG fans, then they should own up to it, at least IMO.
But I don't appreciate the ire of the games media saying we're all misogynists or racists or sexists, because that word gets spread too easily, and I personally think it's incorrect.
To be blunt, I have looked at our uniforms, and I haven't found that we're wearing skulls, at least yet!
Unfortunately, we're not going to agree on anything here, because you have the gall to sit here and talk about how fans need to be treated with respect, as if respect has ever been part of the GG discourse, as if they're not vilifying Amber Scott right now like she's the sole source of your problems.
You want respect and dignity? Earn it. Let's see you go after Wizards of the Coast as the license owners who signed off on the "culture war" content you find so objectionable. Go ahead, send them your angry e-mails and letter-rants, so you can see just how inconsequential GG really is to the people who make decisions in this industry, how little respect those decision-makers have for you.
Or you can talk some more about how SJWs are ruining your childhood. Loads of dignity in that, right?
Enjoy Siege of Dragonspear, and enjoy Baldur's Gate. Good travels, bud.
Anyway, it's an anti-GG meme made to annoy GGers who have, due to the media bias against us (either real or perceived, your choice, but we think it's real) had to tell people that we aren't about misogyny and racism, etc, we're about "ethics in gaming journalism". So they decided to turn that into an insult meme.
Basically, it's not so much a deadly insult or anything, but to me it strikes me as a not so subtle way of the writer saying "Hey, look at me. I don't like GamerGate, and I'm using a character you love to express that to you. LOLENJOY"
(As a side note: MAKE ADVENTURING GREAT AGAIN is fucking hilarious, man. I chuckled pretty good at that.)
Look, it doesn't matter if you stand for ethics in gaming journalism, for the end of the Palestine conflict or the eradication of world hunger. Claiming that you stand for a good cause or that you have the best of intentions does not give you a free pass at hate speech and online harassment.
Who knows about the main question but I don't think PST should get an enhanced edition. Story based game, better leave it alone.
I have a feeling there are more people like me that actually want to see an entire play through before voicing an opinion and when that opinion is voiced it is likely to be apparent who has played the game and who has not.
And just to be really clear I am firmly on Team Amber Scott/Trent Oster/Dee/AlloftheAwesomePeople at Beamdog.
Any criticism and "harassment" (Disagreement) of people such as Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkessian or any of the big named "Enemies of Gamergate" will blame anything and everything on them, regardless if they had anything to do with it or not.
Gamergate has become a scapegoat. I mean you yourself think all we do is post hate speech and harassment. Where did you get that idea? The main line media of course. I bet you never actually did any research into what Gamergate is about and just saw everyone calling them harassers and agreed with that.
And then you looked at debacles like this current one and immediately decided anyone who spoke out against it was associated with Gamergate. regardless of if they are or not.
Granted there are a lot of people on these forums who are associated with Gamergate that have talked about the issues on this forum, but there are those that arent as well.
I mean, Gamergate was recently blamed for the whole situtation with Alison Rapp in Nintendo, despite Nintendo, and Gamergate at large saying they had nothing to do with it.
But sure, go on, take the moral high ground. Write off everyone who associates with gamergate as a harasser, dehumanize them and invalidate their opinion.
Zaphas was quite civil throughout this thread, and you burn him at the stake for being associated with so called "hate speech and harassment"
Besides, when I first played the game and met the infamous Mizhena, my thought were "not so great a writing, but nevermind, the game is great so far" and went on ahead, and was not disappointed again (that Minsc line did not sound that wrong to me). Over the thousands of lines Beamdog wrote for that game, 10 might have been wrong. Ok, but when everything else is good it might lead you to giving 8/10 instead of 9, for example but not 0. BG should not be a political field, and any attempt at making it a political battleground should be ignored. If there is one thing I do not care about when playing BG, it most certainly is what is correct and what is incorrect.
And I would also like to remind you guys that WotC approved all of this, and they are not known for being any loose on the content they approve. If there is something they disapprove, they block it.
There are thousands of lines of dialogue in the game, I doubt they understand the gamergate reference or knew what kind of shit storm it would bring up.
So we have two options.
1.) Wizards was ignorant of the context of the line
This is perfectly possible as unless you were intimately familiar with Gamergate or social justice as a whole you wouldnt get the reference, as several people here did not even know about Gamergate until this controversy.
2.) They knew, and deliberately signed off on it
This is the worse option, which means that aGGro's work at Wizards, and as such, they should reap what they sow.
If they knew the context of the line, they would know it would create a huge media outcry, generating page views and mouse clicks
You know what they say "Theres no such thing as bad publicity" Though, people will then refuse to purchase your product.
If you claim to represent the "real" GamerGate, let's see you put your money where your mouth is. Take a stand against review-bombing. Or keep whining about how your poor little movement is being vilified for things you're actually doing. Your choice.
http://i.imgur.com/0eC9Aew.png
http://imgur.com/SU4FHe9
https://archive.is/TGdBj
I could go on, but you get the picture. These are legit critcisms of the game, which is poor fucking writing that reeks of tokenism. One of those is from an actual trans person.
Im sure you do. Its not review bombing if the writing is actually shit, if the game is riddled with bugs, if the multiplayer and the mods dont work.
http://nichegamer.com/2016/04/04/tale-dragons-memes-dragonspears-writing-horrid/
Heres someone who criticizes the writing AND has played the game and will review it.
So let's sum up:
1) You have no response to people who have taken screenshots of themselves playing the game for nine minutes and then giving it a negative review (which cannot, by any means, be taken as a factual representation of any kind of real experience with any product).
2) You cherry-pick Steam responses while having no response for people you allege are falsely using GG to explicitly argue transphobic positions.
3) You talk about tokenism, and your next sentence is "One of those is from an actual trans person". Maybe they don't all think alike? Hmm.
4) You link to Carl Batchelor, who does the exact same thing Church did by suggesting the Kotaku interview was a response to the backlash when it happened months earlier. You are supporting a "journalist" who is lying about the chain of events to support his narrative.
But sure, tell us how it's all about ethics in games journalism. Because that's clearly what GamerGate really stands for.
The shit tier writing and the mentioned bugs. Where is your proof people spouting transphobic positions COME from gamergate? Just because they are anti-sjw?
A random steam user screaming "I dont want trannies in my game" doesnt make them gamergaters.
Well typically when you write about a person with a particular gender identity or sexual preference you tend to take their opinions over people that dont have them.
As far as I know, the Siege of Dragonspear writers are CIS, and yet wrote a trans cleric into their game so they could check off "Diverse" in their little portfolios.
Trans people dont like the fact that they are trans to be brought up. They want to be accepted like everyone else A trans person would not in two seconds of meeting you decree they are trans.
I highly doubt that the writers of Siege of Dragonspear consulted an actual trans person when writing her into the story. Ok yeah admittedly that is shit.
We've butted heads against our fair share of males as well. Tim Schafer and the Pseudo-Intellectuals at Extra Credits to name but a few.
Anything Social Justice gets SOMEONE vitriolic.
SJWS have certainly had their own outcries.
There was that time SJWS cried sexism on Divinity Original Sin for having boob plate armor, or when Pillars of Eternity had that vague poem that could be construed as 'Transmisognist" if you squinted hard enough
(Wow CRPGS seem to be a breeding ground for shit like this)
Then there was the censorship of Dead or Alive 3, until Play Asia picked it up.
The change to R.Mikas butt slap in Street Fighter V, and the change in Tracers pose in Overwatch.
Dont try and sit there and pretend we're the ones who throw temper tantrums.
Anything and everything that gets media attention attracts trolls regardless of their affiliation. Especially if its someones ideology on the line.