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Wizards of the Coast - what could be their reaction to SOD release?

GloomfrostGloomfrost Member Posts: 271
Could reaction to SOD threaten Beamdog future licensing?

Gaider just got on board for either BG3 or a new IP, Planescape: Torment and IWD2 are probably in development as we speak.

Does this mean Wizards of the Coast could either

A.) have much greater oversight and input into Beamdog products that carry their licensing?

or

B.) pull all future licensing effective killing all D&D products?


do you think either could happen?


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Comments

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Or they'll make a stand and won't let trolls to win.
  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    If they are smart, they will just stay out of it.

    (Which is what Beamdog should have done)
  • GloomfrostGloomfrost Member Posts: 271
    Wizards of the Coast is a company interested in making money, they are not a non profit organization. If negative reviews affect sales or their licensed IP, they will respond, they can't help but do so. I just wanted to know what everyone thinks, hopes, fears might happen.
  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2016
    shawne said:

    Friendly reminder that Wizards of the Coast signed off on every single bit of content in SoD. That's how they do things. Every story I've ever heard about WotC paints them as utter control freaks who will tank licensing agreements if there's a typo they don't like. You think they're going to back down because a bunch of Internet sociopaths decided to dogpile yet another female creator?

    I have never heard that about WotC.

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Ratcliff said:

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.

    Oh really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness

    *mic drop*
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    shawne said:

    You think they're going to back down because a bunch of Internet sociopaths decided to dogpile yet another female creator?

    It's a good job no one is being insulting, derogatory or discriminatory on the Beamdog forums or you might think those GGers have a point...
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 202
    Wizards of the Coast and D&D are already very supportive of transgender characters. Quoted from the 5th ed player's manual

    “The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in Corellon’s image. You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male. Likewise, your character’s sexual orientation is for you to decide.”


    So umm... check and mate anyone whose all "waaah but mah intolerant beliefs waahhhh"
  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    shawne said:

    Ratcliff said:

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.

    Oh really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness

    *mic drop*
    Oh yeah I forgot about that.

    Still, the issue with that was "It's not appropriate for a kid's game like DnD"
    Even with the sticker on the cover that said "mature audience only".

    Beamdog fired shots at GG with that minsc line, and they are reaping the consequences.

    They should have stayed out of it.

  • rjmacreadyrjmacready Member Posts: 91
    edited April 2016
    Maybe they should actually scroll through some of these "well thought out, concerned consumer reviews" and realise these people arent far off the level of "truthers" and "illuminati believers".

    Some people crave things that make them feel special. They want to feel like they are important and they have power.

    They should simply ignore the frothing anti-sjw wave and concentrate on the balance of earnest pleasure with the game vs well thought out and reasoned criticism.

    Also the obvious, which is sales too.
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    sales matter. little else. this whole shitshow can be discarded as the opinion of a mouthy minority. receding sales however cannot.
    and to be quite honest, i think sales are crawling.
  • JustLeftJustLeft Member Posts: 76
    I hope they allow at least one more product before making a decision. David Gaider will probably have a bigger role in the future game and possibly with Avellone so it will be great seeing that happen.

    Didn't bother to buy SoD or play patch 2.0 yet because of the reviews and posts so I'll probably wait until they are solidly patched and everything ironed out. Don't have a lot of time these days anyway.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited April 2016
    Joey said:

    It's a good job no one is being insulting, derogatory or discriminatory on the Beamdog forums or you might think those GGers have a point...

    You know, for someone who claims he gets death threats at work, you really can't seem to take an insult, even if it's not directed at you. Might want to look into that.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    shawne said:

    Joey said:

    It's a good job no one is being insulting, derogatory or discriminatory on the Beamdog forums or you might think those GGers have a point...

    You know, for someone who claims he gets death threats at work, you really can't seem to take an insult, even if it's not directed at you. Might want to look into that.
    You seem to be detecting some emotion from my post that is clearly not there. I was merely pointing out how unpleasant what you said was.
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,551
    @bengoshi
    bengoshi said:

    The new modding tools are splendid. There're only two critics' reviews, and they're positive.

    New modding tools? Where?
  • JediMindTrixJediMindTrix Member Posts: 305
    I imagine: "Hey, it's finally done."
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    shawne said:

    Ratcliff said:

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.

    Oh really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness

    *mic drop*
    Oh yeah I forgot about that.

    Still, the issue with that was "It's not appropriate for a kid's game like DnD"
    Even with the sticker on the cover that said "mature audience only".

    Beamdog fired shots at GG with that minsc line, and they are reaping the consequences.

    They should have stayed out of it.

    Maybe GG shouldn't be so thin skinned and learn to take a joke.
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 366
    edited April 2016
    Ratcliff said:

    shawne said:

    Friendly reminder that Wizards of the Coast signed off on every single bit of content in SoD. That's how they do things. Every story I've ever heard about WotC paints them as utter control freaks who will tank licensing agreements if there's a typo they don't like. You think they're going to back down because a bunch of Internet sociopaths decided to dogpile yet another female creator?

    I have never heard that about WotC.

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.
    Read more books published by wotc and you will see.

    I dont think wotc is going to be stopped from making profits for an npc that makes a minimal appareance. If sod sells well, we will get more products no matter, even if they tell beamdog that in the future try to keep their mouths a bit more closed, because feeding the trolls is never good.

    Ps. And, regarding sales, so far i like the game quite a lot. It has some bugs (and that ui mess...) but i know those will be fixed on time. Looking beyong those bugs I think the game is great.
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    This furor amazes me. I haven't purchased SOD yet and have not experienced the "controversial" NPC but I do want to say the crowd of people who registered here in the last four days to protest are a joke. They won't impact my decision about buying the game at all. It's a done deal. I'll buy it as soon as I finish my BG EE canon play through with patch 2.0. If the game is even marginally good I'll be willing to pay for DLC that brings the non player characters to BG 2. The idea that the people who own Dungeons and Dragons of all products are afraid to make money with controversy is ridiculous as well and I'm sure they will back more expansions as long as they get their cut. Like it or not the trans issue isn't going anywhere and it isn't going to resolve in a way that makes reactionary culture warriors happy any more than the attempts of those same forces to destroy Dungeons and Dragons in the 80s worked for them.
  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    shawne said:

    Ratcliff said:

    But regardless, they are a huge company and don't let controversial topics and beliefs into their products.

    Oh really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness

    *mic drop*
    Oh yeah I forgot about that.

    Still, the issue with that was "It's not appropriate for a kid's game like DnD"
    Even with the sticker on the cover that said "mature audience only".

    Beamdog fired shots at GG with that minsc line, and they are reaping the consequences.

    They should have stayed out of it.

    Maybe GG shouldn't be so thin skinned and learn to take a joke.
    "thin skinned" huh?
    Way to cool heads.

    You are just as bad as they are.
  • Zaphas86Zaphas86 Member Posts: 47

    Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...

    shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.

    IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.

    It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Zaphas86 said:

    Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...

    shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.

    IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.

    It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
    You could have taken it like a man, you could have taken pride from the jab. Instead you GGs decided to run this shitshow, making it miserable for everyone. "It all about ethics in gaming journalism" is your slogan right? Pretty far-fetched i daresay.

    The majority here likely didn't even know about GG to begin with. I didn't.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Zaphas86 said:

    IMO, as someone from GG,

    Aaaaaand that's Jenga. Mystery solved. :/
  • Zaphas86Zaphas86 Member Posts: 47
    edited April 2016
    shawne said:

    Zaphas86 said:

    IMO, as someone from GG,

    Aaaaaand that's Jenga. Mystery solved. :/
    I think if you go back through my post history, you'll find I've been rather pleasant about this entire fiasco, unlike what you've been doing. If you can't refute my points without pointing and labeling, then I suggest you take a look inward instead before you post.
    geselle said:

    Zaphas86 said:

    Is anyone in this thread not behaving like an adult? This one seems calmer and more cogent than most...

    shawne, in particular seems to be here only to inflame things. Constantly bashing GG at every turn he can possibly do so. Purudaya also doesn't seem to be doing a very good job at that, either.

    IMO, as someone from GG, I don't *like* seeing Minsc used to insult me. Think about that for a second, think of it as a character you love from any source, anime, games, whatever. Maybe say, Goku might make a joke that feminism is lame in Dragon Ball Super. You know, something cheap like that, that really has no place in the source material.

    It really serves no purpose other than to insult and inflame, so why is it there in the first place? If the writer stands by the joke and wants to keep it in, it's only natural that the writer, and thereby the company, would feel the dissatisfaction and lack of support from fans who fall under that banner.
    You could have taken it like a man, you could have taken pride from the jab. Instead you GGs decided to run this shitshow, making it miserable for everyone. "It all about ethics in gaming journalism" is your slogan right? Pretty far-fetched i daresay.

    The majority here likely didn't even know about GG to begin with. I didn't.
    Throughout this entire thing, I have supported Beamdog's right to keep Mizrena without changes, and keep Minsc's line without changes. Would I appreciate changing both? Of course! Mizrena, as it stands is borderline offensive to trans people, and I already outlined above why I don't like Minsc's line.

    I *could* simply walk away from this whole nonsense, Beamdog having lost the support of someone who has loved Baldur's Gate his entire life, and be the end of it. I prefer instead to make my feelings known to Beamdog such that they might learn from this, in particular, their quality of writing, and the handling of controversy. You know why? Because I fucking love this series. I love the setting, I love the characters, I can't express how much, because BG got me started on PC gaming. I want to see a BG3, and I want to see it done by Beamdog. However, I want to see them handle all facets of the gaming community with respect, not just the ones that their writer or writers currently agree with.

    Also, I want to point out that I've engaged in no fake-review bombing or any other such nonsense, nor are there currently any calls to do so on the KiA subreddit. If there were, I would go and comment in them with my dissent. It seems like anyone currently doing so is doing so if their own volition, rather than because there was a concerted effort to do so.

    As for ethics in gaming journalism, take a visit over to deepfreeze.it, where GG folks have chronicled various ethical violations of gaming journos for the public to see. Once you've read you fill, please return to this thread and tell me that GG isn't at least partially about ethics.

    Thank you.
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