Speaking of vampires and modding, did you know that Westley Weimer is attributed with adding not one, but two vampire party members in popular mods? In the final battle of Ascension, Amelyssan pits the player against a gauntlet of past villains, including Irenicus and Bodhi - but Evil characters can persuade Bodhi to side with them. For the rest of the gauntlet, Bodhi acts as an "unofficial" summoned creature - a summoned creature with level-draining claws.
The second was a proper party member, Valen (Bodhi's lieutenant). Like Hexxat, Valen is designed to serve as the Evil party's thief; unlike Hexxat, Valen has often been criticized both for being extremely overpowered and for occasionally taking agency away from the player. Perhaps the most infamous example concerns Adalon's eggs: if Valen is in your party, she will give the eggs to the demon without prompting from you.
Vampire thieves should be awesome; druids with pet dinosaurs are awesome; a gnoll party member would have been awesome; a lich party member might have been awesome if he'd stuck around for more than a single room; unbeatable fights are rarely awesome; vampire player characters both are/are not awesome, depending on implementation; loss or restriction of player agency is almost never awesome.
If the modding community ever went digging for Unfinished Business in the Enhanced Edition, they'd find one hell of a gold mine: dummied-out text (still present in the game's tlk files) reveals that if you romanced Hexxat, you would've eventually been able to convince her to turn you into a vampire. Every single party member has scripted reactions - as you can imagine, some take the news better than others. According to the devs, this was never implemented because it would effectively make the player immortal (turning to mist rather than dying in combat).
Damn you shawne. Playable vampire has always been on my wishlist. Now you're saying it actually existed but never got implemented. Rob me of my sleep will you? -.-
What I'd like to know is where this conciliatory approach was two years ago, when even the most loyal EE fans were hard-pressed to find much to like about Hexxat.
WIth all due respect, as someone who was involved in the debates at the time, the forum was split into two opposing camps. Some liked Hexxat, some didn't. It was not the one-sided thumbs-down you are implying here, and while it's impossible to tell if the like/dislike ration on Hexxat was 50/50 or some other ratio, there was no shortage of posters on both sides.
I mean, it's possible. But it'd act the same way as either your mod or my mod. /shrug
It would probably even be possible to have a time of day based spell that gives disadvantages in daylight. I've seen examples of how it was done before now.
Not an actual demon...but there is a warlock mod out there for IWDEE. I've downloaded the mod, but I'm curious as to whether it's possible to add a new class or if we're stuck relegating it to a new kit.
I mean, it's possible. But it'd act the same way as either your mod or my mod. /shrug
It would probably even be possible to have a time of day based spell that gives disadvantages in daylight.
I've looked into making a vampire before, and a simple one isn't incredibly hard, but to make one exactly the way Hexxat is is quite a task. There's a lot connected to her amulet, and vampires gain a lot more bonuses and penalties than most races too. Plus you have to wonder if they're a vampiric human or demi-human if you want to be thorough.
WIth all due respect, as someone who was involved in the debates at the time, the forum was split into two opposing camps. Some liked Hexxat, some didn't. It was not the one-sided thumbs-down you are implying here, and while it's impossible to tell if the like/dislike ration on Hexxat was 50/50 or some other ratio, there was no shortage of posters on both sides.
Ergo, your premise is flawed.
I think you might be misremembering slightly - the original debates were hampered by, shall we say, certain contentious elements against whom the forum largely rallied. Once the dust settled, even those who liked Hexxat weren't prepared to say she was the best new NPC, or that there weren't problems with her dialogue and character arc regardless. (@Nonnahswriter and @Pantalion have made some particularly salient points on the matter.)
All I'm saying is that whether you like her or not, there's room for improvement. (And contrary to Trent Oster's statement above, I don't believe it's the significant drain on time and resources he claims it to be.) I'm just a bit bothered by the fact that the prospect of revision wasn't something Beamdog was willing to consider until SoD got review-bombed. I mean, is that really what it takes to prioritize better writing?
I think you might be misremembering slightly - the original debates were hampered by, shall we say, certain contentious elements against whom the forum largely rallied. Once the dust settled, even those who liked Hexxat weren't prepared to say she was the best new NPC, or that there weren't problems with her dialogue and character arc regardless. (@Nonnahswriter and @Pantalion have made some particularly salient points on the matter.)
All I'm saying is that whether you like her or not, there's room for improvement.
That could be said about literally any character ever.
I don't really want to start up a big debate on Hexxat. I will simply reiterate: I was there, I disagree with you, and I was not the only one to disagree with you. In the context of Baldur's Gate II, there was nothing wrong with her, as far as I am concerned.
(Okay, actually, in full disclosure I felt her intro scene would have worked better if a single line had been placed after an action instead of before. That is not, however, a very big deal or worth saying that there were "problems with her dialogue and character arc".)
(And contrary to Trent Oster's statement above, I don't believe it's the significant drain on time and resources he claims it to be.) I'm just a bit bothered by the fact that the prospect of revision wasn't something Beamdog was willing to consider until SoD got review-bombed. I mean, is that really what it takes to prioritize better writing?
Why would you assume Trent is lying or mistaken? It seems obvious that expanding a minor NPC somewhat is a lesser task than revising a playable main character - even more so, because there was no consensus as to what would make a "better" Hexxat, whereas it is generally agreed that expanding Mizhena's character is a good thing.
I don't really want to start up a big debate on Hexxat. I will simply reiterate: I was there, I disagree with you, and I was not the only one to disagree with you. In the context of Baldur's Gate II, there was nothing wrong with her, as far as I am concerned.
In the context of Baldur's Gate II, and in comparison to other NPCs (both EE and original), there are many things wrong with her design, her characterization and her story arc - much of which can be attributed to the process of her creation - but as you said, this isn't the place for that discussion.
Why would you assume Trent is lying or mistaken? It seems obvious that expanding a minor NPC somewhat is a lesser task than revising a playable main character - even more so, because there was no consensus as to what would make a "better" Hexxat, whereas it is generally agreed that expanding Mizhena's character is a good thing.
Inaccurate on both counts - even discarding the irrelevant reactionary backlash (you know of whom I speak), there's no general agreement that Mizhena needs to be expanded, let alone how that expansion should be implemented (more quests? Recruitable?)
Meanwhile, there's a largely consistent throughline when it comes to players who encounter and discuss Hexxat in LPs, or bring her up on this forum and others. You may disagree with the arguments made, that's perfectly fair, but to claim no general conclusions can be drawn from that feedback strikes me as being a bit hasty.
As for why I don't think the prospect of revising Hexxat is quite as daunting as it's being made out to be: again, without needlessly going into specifics, many of those same issues that are consistently brought up can be solved with a few strings of unvoiced text. The problem of
her ToB quest concluding either with her permanent death or a narrative dead end that leaves her completely unchanged
is something that could use a bit more thought, but to claim that Beamdog should make no effort at all on that front, when their motivation to rethink a minor NPC is solely due to the events of the past two weeks? What can I say, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Inaccurate on both counts - even discarding the irrelevant reactionary backlash (you know of whom I speak), there's no general agreement that Mizhena needs to be expanded, let alone how that expansion should be implemented (more quests? Recruitable?)
I didn't say how, I just said that expansion of the character is considered a good thing in general, even among those who don't think it's necessary.
Meanwhile, there's a largely consistent throughline when it comes to players who encounter and discuss Hexxat in LPs, or bring her up on this forum and others. You may disagree with the arguments made, that's perfectly fair, but to claim no general conclusions can be drawn from that feedback strikes me as being a bit hasty.
Neither in this forum, nor in other places where I've recently seen the character mentioned, do I see this (for instance, the rather nice steam guides by kamster99 I was reading the other day while planning this current run mentioned her character positively).
In fact, I honestly have no idea what the problem is that you think is everywhere with her (unless it's the thing you put under the spoiler tag?), which is a reasonably good piece of evidence that it isn't as ubiquitous or consistent as you're claiming.
I don't generally read LPs and have no real interest in any BG ones, so there may very well be a trend there, but that's hardly a representative sample of BG players.
but to claim that Beamdog should make no effort at all on that front, when their motivation to rethink a minor NPC is solely due to the events of the past two weeks? What can I say, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I could get that, but you have to take into account that, as Trent said, they didn't necessarily agree with your criticism of the character. They didn't change her because they didn't think she necessarily needed to be changed - not just because it would be more work. Meanwhile, they did actually give some credence to some complaints about Mizhena being "tokenism", or too forthcoming with her status. Same thing with the Minsc line.
I just don't see the reason to assume they're bad actors here. If they really thought there was this issue with Hexxat that you do, why wouldn't they fix it, if it's really not that much effort? They've owned up when they felt they made mistakes before.
In fact, I honestly have no idea what the problem is that you think is everywhere with her (unless it's the thing you put under the spoiler tag?), which is a reasonably good piece of evidence that it isn't as ubiquitous or consistent as you're claiming.
I don't generally read LPs and have no real interest in any BG ones, so there may very well be a trend there, but that's hardly a representative sample of BG players.
Well, that depends on how you define a "representative sample", isn't it? How many examples do you need? One?Two?Three?Four? Five?Six?Seven? (And that's not counting anyone who found those posts/threads insightful, agreeable or likeable.)
Look, I really don't have the energy to get into another citation war here. The plotholes are there whether you like the character or not:
L doesn't approve of undead, but Cabrina is a human who knew Hexxat two hundred years ago, how does that work? If Hexxat's whole questline is to get the upgraded Casque to reach Korkorran, how did Phreya get there first? If Hexxat's real goal is to die, why does she tell you there's nothing she won't do to survive?
If it's just going to be what it is, fine. That tells me everything I need to know.
Thank you Beamdog for making this change and respecting your fanbase and customers. When you take over a beloved franchise then it's important the treat the property with respect and care - missteps are easy and there are plenty of pitfalls. But you came through and vowed to do better in the future and fix potential issues. Good on you and I will now buy the expansion next I can afford it.
It should be obvious to anyone that the false narrative of gamers as a homophobic group that likes to harass people are way off base. We have played plenty of games with LGBTQ-characters in them from Phantasmogoria 2, The Longest Journey, Dragon Age/Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Vampire: Bloodlines, and many others without complaint. This entire battle has nothing to do with harassment, homophobia or GG vs Anti-GG but instead has to do with the sanctity of video games (especially old franchises) and to not enforce your own ideology onto others. I'm sure many progressives would also get mad if their favourite franchise was purchased by right-wingers and you now had to listen to talks about the joy of gun ownership or the sanctity of the nucleus family or maybe do a quest where a single-mother turns out to be a horrible monster that you defeat and her kids will now be put into a royal family.
No one likes to be talked down to a lectured. Deus Ex HR was a great game - it was also a game about transhumanism but the game never forced you to pick one side and the game never stated that one side was right and the other wrong instead it was about pros and cons about changing the human body and playing god. But the gamer could decide. That's how you do it.
So if Amber Scott reads this I hope she will take the criticisms to heart and learn from it. You can have gay and transgender characters in your game but they need to be well written and fit into the lore or have a decent backstory. That is a setting with various methods to change ones gender easily. And having memes in your game is always risky because memes don't age well. And finally don't have one of the most beloved characters take a dig against one side in this ongoing culture war when a large part of your audience is either neutral or against ideologs infecting gaming.
I am neutral when it comes to GamerGate but I do agree with ethics in games journalism and I do know that gaming is a form of escapism from the drudgery of everyday life. Immersion is important and that's why it's important for Beamdog to understand that breaking that immersion is not a good idea. A person's sexuality is not very important other than to that person's bedmates.
So in the end I hope that Beamdog, Amber Scott, David Gaider have learned something from all of this and that they will use it to make the expansion better with better writing and ultimately will go on and make Baldur's Gate 3.
Thank you Beamdog for making this change and respecting your fanbase and customers. When you take over a beloved franchise then it's important the treat the property with respect and care - missteps are easy and there are plenty of pitfalls. But you came through and vowed to do better in the future and fix potential issues. Good on you and I will now buy the expansion next I can afford it.
It should be obvious to anyone that the false narrative of gamers as a homophobic group that likes to harass people are way off base. We have played plenty of games with LGBTQ-characters in them from Phantasmogoria 2, The Longest Journey, Dragon Age/Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Vampire: Bloodlines, and many others without complaint This entire battle has nothing to do with harassment, homophobia or GG vs Anti-GG but instead has to do with the sanctity of video games (especially old franchises) and to not enforce your own ideology onto others. .I'm sure many progressives would also get mad if their favourite franchise was purchased by right-wingers and you now had to listen to talks about the joy of gun ownership or the sanctity of the nucleus family or maybe do a quest where a single-mother turns out to be a horrible monster that you defeat and her kids will now be put into a royal family.
No one likes to be talked down to a lectured. Deus Ex HR was a great game - it was also a game about transhumanism but the game never forced you to pick one side and the game never stated that one side was right and the other wrong instead it was about pros and cons about changing the human body and playing god. But the gamer could decide. That's how you do it.
So if Amber Scott reads this I hope she will take the criticisms to heart and learn from it. You can have gay and transgender characters in your game but they need to be well written and fit into the lore or have a decent backstory. That is a setting with various methods to change ones gender easily. And having memes in your game is always risky because memes don't age well. And finally don't have one of the most beloved characters take a dig against one side in this ongoing culture war when a large part of your audience is either neutral or against ideologs infecting gaming.
I am neutral when it comes to GamerGate but I do agree with ethics in games journalism and I do know that gaming is a form of escapism from the drudgery of everyday life. Immersion is important and that's why it's important for Beamdog to understand that breaking that immersion is not a good idea. A person's sexuality is not very important other than to that person's bedmates.
So in the end I hope that Beamdog, Amber Scott, David Gaider have learned something from all of this and that they will use it to make the expansion better with better writing and ultimately will go on and make Baldur's Gate 3.
I have to disagree with a few of your points. Many of those characters came in with many, many complaints. Please don't whitewash that, as people here have already been posting links showing the controversies when they were added. Also, plenty of people here came arguing about GG v Anti-GG. There was already something of a culture war apparently going on, and this became another battleground.
Also, I still don't get this idea that somehow just including a trans character is "enforc[ing] your ideology onto others." If your ideology apparently comes down to "trans people exist" then that isn't really much of an ideology, is it? And if the creator of the game world comes out and says "trans people exist in this setting" (which did indeed happen) then they really do "fit into the lore."
So I'm curious, what is the lesson that they should learn from this? Is it:
(1) Don't include trans characters unless they have a major role (Miz was an NPC with 2 quests attached to her, who if you prompt her, shares that she is trans as flavor text)? (2) Remember that minorities must have fully fleshed out stories that go in very deep which explains their minority status, as they cannot just have that be a minor part of their character? (3) Self-censor your art before you release it out of fear of offending people?
I love and respect Ed Greenwood, one of my absolute favorite authors, and I'm glad he came out once and for all with his statement that of course a world with inter-species sex and magical offspring would also have homosexual orientations and transgender identities. My issue with this, is that I feel like his statement, like so many others (the mary sue, gamasutra, beamdog themselves, etc..) thought that the average gamer really had a problem with the mere existence of a trans individual. Really? Does that even need to be addressed? Ignore the bigots! Address the people who are rational and only wanted to see more developed writing. I wanted to hear MORE from Mizhena, not a one liner, perhaps making her appear as a token character. Sure there were bigots who had an issue with her existence, that will probably always be the case. It saddens me that people as high up as Ed Greenwood felt that was the biggest issue needing to be addressed. It made it seem like it really was the biggest issue, as if the whole world was condemning the game due to her existence, and while there is *some* truth in it, I feel that the reaction blew it out of proportion.
If the modding community ever went digging for Unfinished Business in the Enhanced Edition, they'd find one hell of a gold mine: dummied-out text (still present in the game's tlk files) reveals that if you romanced Hexxat, you would've eventually been able to convince her to turn you into a vampire. Every single party member has scripted reactions - as you can imagine, some take the news better than others. According to the devs, this was never implemented because it would effectively make the player immortal (turning to mist rather than dying in combat).
Vampire thieves should be awesome; druids with pet dinosaurs are awesome; a gnoll party member would have been awesome; a lich party member might have been awesome if he'd stuck around for more than a single room; unbeatable fights are rarely awesome; vampire player characters both are/are not awesome, depending on implementation.
Someone needs to make a mod of this where you have some extra weakness of not being able to turn to mist for some reason (Bhaalspawn-related reason maybe?) so it doesn't unbalance into never dying in combat because Hexxat is already my favourite Evil romance by far and modding this content back in along with party reactions would be THE BEST
In fact, I honestly have no idea what the problem is that you think is everywhere with her (unless it's the thing you put under the spoiler tag?), which is a reasonably good piece of evidence that it isn't as ubiquitous or consistent as you're claiming.
I don't generally read LPs and have no real interest in any BG ones, so there may very well be a trend there, but that's hardly a representative sample of BG players.
Well, that depends on how you define a "representative sample", isn't it? How many examples do you need? One?Two?Three?Four? Five?Six?Seven? (And that's not counting anyone who found those posts/threads insightful, agreeable or likeable.)
Look, I really don't have the energy to get into another citation war here. The plotholes are there whether you like the character or not:
L doesn't approve of undead, but Cabrina is a human who knew Hexxat two hundred years ago, how does that work? If Hexxat's whole questline is to get the upgraded Casque to reach Korkorran, how did Phreya get there first? If Hexxat's real goal is to die, why does she tell you there's nothing she won't do to survive?
If it's just going to be what it is, fine. That tells me everything I need to know.
I never thought of the Qs you pose under the spoiler, but those are all really good points holy crap...personally the one EE Evil playthrough of BGII that I did I romanced her and thought her story was pretty great but...yeah, damn, those are some p(l)otholes big enough to swallow a horse and cart.
I love and respect Ed Greenwood, one of my absolute favorite authors, and I'm glad he came out once and for all with his statement that of course a world with inter-species sex and magical offspring would also have homosexual orientations and transgender identities. My issue with this, is that I feel like his statement, like so many others (the mary sue, gamasutra, beamdog themselves, etc..) thought that the average gamer really had a problem with the mere existence of a trans individual. Really? Does that even need to be addressed? Ignore the bigots! Address the people who are rational and only wanted to see more developed writing. I wanted to hear MORE from Mizhena, not a one liner, perhaps making her appear as a token character. Sure there were bigots who had an issue with her existence, that will probably always be the case. It saddens me that people as high up as Ed Greenwood felt that was the biggest issue needing to be addressed. It made it seem like it really was the biggest issue, as if the whole world was condemning the game due to her existence, and while there is *some* truth in it, I feel that the reaction blew it out of proportion.
I have a question for you: why do you feel she was tokenized by a line buried in some dialogue when she's an NPC so well-developed that she's part of three sidequests, none of which mention she's trans at all and all of which center her vocation and faith, which are deeply tied to the Forgotten Realms campaign setting? Like, how much more tied to the universe does she need to be, how many more quests? There are so many less developed NPCs in SoD (and in BG1 and 2 for that matter), so why the complaints about her and no other character? She's more well-developed than most of the NPCs you can go to for services in SoD.
In fact, I honestly have no idea what the problem is that you think is everywhere with her (unless it's the thing you put under the spoiler tag?), which is a reasonably good piece of evidence that it isn't as ubiquitous or consistent as you're claiming.
I don't generally read LPs and have no real interest in any BG ones, so there may very well be a trend there, but that's hardly a representative sample of BG players.
Well, that depends on how you define a "representative sample", isn't it? How many examples do you need? One?Two?Three?Four? Five?Six?Seven? (And that's not counting anyone who found those posts/threads insightful, agreeable or likeable.)
Look, I really don't have the energy to get into another citation war here. The plotholes are there whether you like the character or not:
L doesn't approve of undead, but Cabrina is a human who knew Hexxat two hundred years ago, how does that work? If Hexxat's whole questline is to get the upgraded Casque to reach Korkorran, how did Phreya get there first? If Hexxat's real goal is to die, why does she tell you there's nothing she won't do to survive?
If it's just going to be what it is, fine. That tells me everything I need to know.
I never thought of the Qs you pose under the spoiler, but those are all really good points holy crap...personally the one EE Evil playthrough of BGII that I did I romanced her and thought her story was pretty great but...yeah, damn, those are some p(l)otholes big enough to swallow a horse and cart.
Does the romance go into her story? I took her on a nonromance playthrough and was extremely frustrated about how little I got to learn about her. And do you find that it is worth a whole playthrough for her?
@Grum absolutely worth it at the time! didn't notice any of this stuff people are on about until these comments here in the thread (and I can totally see some of them now)
Not knowing that she was a romance option and playing female cleric/mage, I needed a thief slot filled and loved the Chultan angle (since I once had Chultan PC in a pen and paper FR game I DM'd and so I've read quite a bit of Realms lore surrounding that as I do for any element of a PC's background and quickly found myself in love with that aspect of the Realms with the dino-riding and whatnot, not that she's about that stuff exactly but that was part of the draw...I digress tho) plus I wanted to see one of the Beamdog NPCs in action and honestly, since I didn't get the
"let me be dead now plz"
ending of her storyline as it was an Evil playthrough and I played to that survivor element of her personality in my choices, I never saw some of the inconsistency other people saw which might be why I liked her so much! I'm only just now finding out about some of it from links in this thread, actually. I thought her voice acting was a tad lacking (tho I wouldn't go so over the top as some anti-Hexxat voice acting hyperbole I'm seeing lol), but the writing overall didn't seem off to me (again, until just now lmao) and I thought the romance was a) a welcome surprise at the time since I didn't know there were any lesbian romance options even available before that playthrough and b) really great for an Evil romance!
@Grum absolutely worth it at the time! didn't notice any of this stuff people are on about until these comments here in the thread (and I can totally see some of them now)
Not knowing that she was a romance option and playing female cleric/mage, I needed a thief slot filled and loved the Chultan angle (since I once had Chultan PC in a pen and paper FR game I DM'd and so I've read quite a bit of Realms lore surrounding that as I do for any element of a PC's background and quickly found myself in love with that aspect of the Realms with the dino-riding and whatnot, not that she's about that stuff exactly but that was part of the draw...I digress tho) plus I wanted to see one of the Beamdog NPCs in action and honestly, since I didn't get the
"let me be dead now plz"
ending of her storyline as it was an Evil playthrough and I played to that survivor element of her personality in my choices, I never saw some of the inconsistency other people saw which might be why I liked her so much! I'm only just now finding out about some of it from links in this thread, actually. I thought her voice acting was a tad lacking (tho I wouldn't go so over the top as some anti-Hexxat voice acting hyperbole I'm seeing lol), but the writing overall didn't seem off to me (again, until just now lmao) and I thought the romance was a) a welcome surprise at the time since I didn't know there were any lesbian romance options even available before that playthrough and b) really great for an Evil romance!
Argh! Must...fight...restartitis.
I currently have a dwarven defender BG1 playthrough to finish for SoD when it comes out on IoS.
Now I want to make a female blackguard to get caught in a love triangle with Hexxat and Dorn.
Damn you gendernihilismgirdle! Actually no, thank you. At least now if I can successfully fight the restartitis I'll have the next playthrough to look forward to.
@TrentOster just letting you know that you and beamdog will have my support in probably every future project you guys make and i really enjoyed everything you have added to my favorite games and something you made on your own.
@Grum because Dorn is open enough to be with literally anyone I'm torn between doing a Romance Dorn playthrough where I'm an elf mage or halfling shaman or something similarly at maximum distant from Dorn or one where I'm a NE human blackguard or NE half-orc fighter/cleric.
@Grum because Dorn is open enough to be with literally anyone I'm torn between doing a Romance Dorn playthrough where I'm an elf mage or halfling shaman or something similarly at maximum distant from Dorn or one where I'm a NE human blackguard or NE half-orc fighter/cleric.
Halfling shaman. Because of the hilarious image that it conjures.
@Grum because Dorn is open enough to be with literally anyone I'm torn between doing a Romance Dorn playthrough where I'm an elf mage or halfling shaman or something similarly at maximum distant from Dorn or one where I'm a NE human blackguard or NE half-orc fighter/cleric.
Halfling shaman. Because of the hilarious image that it conjures.
if I could manage to keep a straight face during a playthrough set up like this, a NG halfling shaman romancing Dorn and being "corrupted by his sexy evil ways" would be pretty top notch
@Grum because Dorn is open enough to be with literally anyone I'm torn between doing a Romance Dorn playthrough where I'm an elf mage or halfling shaman or something similarly at maximum distant from Dorn or one where I'm a NE human blackguard or NE half-orc fighter/cleric.
Halfling shaman. Because of the hilarious image that it conjures.
if I could manage to keep a straight face during a playthrough set up like this, a NG halfling shaman romancing Dorn and being "corrupted by his sexy evil ways" would be pretty top notch
Dorn: "I respect strength."
Halfling Shaman: "Haer'Dalis, play us a tune."
Dorn: "What?"
Halfling Shaman: "Shhh. Watch, and be enthralled by the power...of dance!"
Thank you Beamdog for making this change and respecting your fanbase and customers. When you take over a beloved franchise then it's important the treat the property with respect and care - missteps are easy and there are plenty of pitfalls. But you came through and vowed to do better in the future and fix potential issues. Good on you and I will now buy the expansion next I can afford it.
It should be obvious to anyone that the false narrative of gamers as a homophobic group that likes to harass people are way off base. We have played plenty of games with LGBTQ-characters in them from Phantasmogoria 2, The Longest Journey, Dragon Age/Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Vampire: Bloodlines, and many others without complaint. This entire battle has nothing to do with harassment, homophobia or GG vs Anti-GG but instead has to do with the sanctity of video games (especially old franchises) and to not enforce your own ideology onto others. I'm sure many progressives would also get mad if their favourite franchise was purchased by right-wingers and you now had to listen to talks about the joy of gun ownership or the sanctity of the nucleus family or maybe do a quest where a single-mother turns out to be a horrible monster that you defeat and her kids will now be put into a royal family.
No one likes to be talked down to a lectured. Deus Ex HR was a great game - it was also a game about transhumanism but the game never forced you to pick one side and the game never stated that one side was right and the other wrong instead it was about pros and cons about changing the human body and playing god. But the gamer could decide. That's how you do it.
So if Amber Scott reads this I hope she will take the criticisms to heart and learn from it. You can have gay and transgender characters in your game but they need to be well written and fit into the lore or have a decent backstory. That is a setting with various methods to change ones gender easily. And having memes in your game is always risky because memes don't age well. And finally don't have one of the most beloved characters take a dig against one side in this ongoing culture war when a large part of your audience is either neutral or against ideologs infecting gaming.
I am neutral when it comes to GamerGate but I do agree with ethics in games journalism and I do know that gaming is a form of escapism from the drudgery of everyday life. Immersion is important and that's why it's important for Beamdog to understand that breaking that immersion is not a good idea. A person's sexuality is not very important other than to that person's bedmates.
So in the end I hope that Beamdog, Amber Scott, David Gaider have learned something from all of this and that they will use it to make the expansion better with better writing and ultimately will go on and make Baldur's Gate 3.
No one is making that claim about gamers in general, just GamerGate. And their history supports the claim about them.
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The second was a proper party member, Valen (Bodhi's lieutenant). Like Hexxat, Valen is designed to serve as the Evil party's thief; unlike Hexxat, Valen has often been criticized both for being extremely overpowered and for occasionally taking agency away from the player. Perhaps the most infamous example concerns Adalon's eggs: if Valen is in your party, she will give the eggs to the demon without prompting from you.
Vampire thieves should be awesome; druids with pet dinosaurs are awesome; a gnoll party member would have been awesome; a lich party member might have been awesome if he'd stuck around for more than a single room; unbeatable fights are rarely awesome; vampire player characters both are/are not awesome, depending on implementation; loss or restriction of player agency is almost never awesome.
Ergo, your premise is flawed.
It would probably even be possible to have a time of day based spell that gives disadvantages in daylight. I've seen examples of how it was done before now. Not an actual demon...but there is a warlock mod out there for IWDEE. I've downloaded the mod, but I'm curious as to whether it's possible to add a new class or if we're stuck relegating it to a new kit.
Your blood! Haha just a little joke there friends, vampires are cool and not just because they suffer from notoriously poor circulation.
All I'm saying is that whether you like her or not, there's room for improvement. (And contrary to Trent Oster's statement above, I don't believe it's the significant drain on time and resources he claims it to be.) I'm just a bit bothered by the fact that the prospect of revision wasn't something Beamdog was willing to consider until SoD got review-bombed. I mean, is that really what it takes to prioritize better writing?
I don't really want to start up a big debate on Hexxat. I will simply reiterate: I was there, I disagree with you, and I was not the only one to disagree with you. In the context of Baldur's Gate II, there was nothing wrong with her, as far as I am concerned.
(Okay, actually, in full disclosure I felt her intro scene would have worked better if a single line had been placed after an action instead of before. That is not, however, a very big deal or worth saying that there were "problems with her dialogue and character arc".) Why would you assume Trent is lying or mistaken? It seems obvious that expanding a minor NPC somewhat is a lesser task than revising a playable main character - even more so, because there was no consensus as to what would make a "better" Hexxat, whereas it is generally agreed that expanding Mizhena's character is a good thing.
Meanwhile, there's a largely consistent throughline when it comes to players who encounter and discuss Hexxat in LPs, or bring her up on this forum and others. You may disagree with the arguments made, that's perfectly fair, but to claim no general conclusions can be drawn from that feedback strikes me as being a bit hasty.
As for why I don't think the prospect of revising Hexxat is quite as daunting as it's being made out to be: again, without needlessly going into specifics, many of those same issues that are consistently brought up can be solved with a few strings of unvoiced text. The problem of
is something that could use a bit more thought, but to claim that Beamdog should make no effort at all on that front, when their motivation to rethink a minor NPC is solely due to the events of the past two weeks? What can I say, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
In fact, I honestly have no idea what the problem is that you think is everywhere with her (unless it's the thing you put under the spoiler tag?), which is a reasonably good piece of evidence that it isn't as ubiquitous or consistent as you're claiming.
I don't generally read LPs and have no real interest in any BG ones, so there may very well be a trend there, but that's hardly a representative sample of BG players. I could get that, but you have to take into account that, as Trent said, they didn't necessarily agree with your criticism of the character. They didn't change her because they didn't think she necessarily needed to be changed - not just because it would be more work. Meanwhile, they did actually give some credence to some complaints about Mizhena being "tokenism", or too forthcoming with her status. Same thing with the Minsc line.
I just don't see the reason to assume they're bad actors here. If they really thought there was this issue with Hexxat that you do, why wouldn't they fix it, if it's really not that much effort? They've owned up when they felt they made mistakes before.
Look, I really don't have the energy to get into another citation war here. The plotholes are there whether you like the character or not:
If it's just going to be what it is, fine. That tells me everything I need to know.
It should be obvious to anyone that the false narrative of gamers as a homophobic group that likes to harass people are way off base. We have played plenty of games with LGBTQ-characters in them from Phantasmogoria 2, The Longest Journey, Dragon Age/Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Vampire: Bloodlines, and many others without complaint. This entire battle has nothing to do with harassment, homophobia or GG vs Anti-GG but instead has to do with the sanctity of video games (especially old franchises) and to not enforce your own ideology onto others. I'm sure many progressives would also get mad if their favourite franchise was purchased by right-wingers and you now had to listen to talks about the joy of gun ownership or the sanctity of the nucleus family or maybe do a quest where a single-mother turns out to be a horrible monster that you defeat and her kids will now be put into a royal family.
No one likes to be talked down to a lectured. Deus Ex HR was a great game - it was also a game about transhumanism but the game never forced you to pick one side and the game never stated that one side was right and the other wrong instead it was about pros and cons about changing the human body and playing god. But the gamer could decide. That's how you do it.
So if Amber Scott reads this I hope she will take the criticisms to heart and learn from it. You can have gay and transgender characters in your game but they need to be well written and fit into the lore or have a decent backstory. That is a setting with various methods to change ones gender easily. And having memes in your game is always risky because memes don't age well. And finally don't have one of the most beloved characters take a dig against one side in this ongoing culture war when a large part of your audience is either neutral or against ideologs infecting gaming.
I am neutral when it comes to GamerGate but I do agree with ethics in games journalism and I do know that gaming is a form of escapism from the drudgery of everyday life. Immersion is important and that's why it's important for Beamdog to understand that breaking that immersion is not a good idea. A person's sexuality is not very important other than to that person's bedmates.
So in the end I hope that Beamdog, Amber Scott, David Gaider have learned something from all of this and that they will use it to make the expansion better with better writing and ultimately will go on and make Baldur's Gate 3.
Also, I still don't get this idea that somehow just including a trans character is "enforc[ing] your ideology onto others." If your ideology apparently comes down to "trans people exist" then that isn't really much of an ideology, is it? And if the creator of the game world comes out and says "trans people exist in this setting" (which did indeed happen) then they really do "fit into the lore."
So I'm curious, what is the lesson that they should learn from this? Is it:
(1) Don't include trans characters unless they have a major role (Miz was an NPC with 2 quests attached to her, who if you prompt her, shares that she is trans as flavor text)?
(2) Remember that minorities must have fully fleshed out stories that go in very deep which explains their minority status, as they cannot just have that be a minor part of their character?
(3) Self-censor your art before you release it out of fear of offending people?
What is the exact lesson that they should learn?
Not knowing that she was a romance option and playing female cleric/mage, I needed a thief slot filled and loved the Chultan angle (since I once had Chultan PC in a pen and paper FR game I DM'd and so I've read quite a bit of Realms lore surrounding that as I do for any element of a PC's background and quickly found myself in love with that aspect of the Realms with the dino-riding and whatnot, not that she's about that stuff exactly but that was part of the draw...I digress tho) plus I wanted to see one of the Beamdog NPCs in action and honestly, since I didn't get the
I currently have a dwarven defender BG1 playthrough to finish for SoD when it comes out on IoS.
Now I want to make a female blackguard to get caught in a love triangle with Hexxat and Dorn.
Damn you gendernihilismgirdle! Actually no, thank you. At least now if I can successfully fight the restartitis I'll have the next playthrough to look forward to.
sincerely, a pleased fan
Halfling Shaman: "Haer'Dalis, play us a tune."
Dorn: "What?"
Halfling Shaman: "Shhh. Watch, and be enthralled by the power...of dance!"
Korgan: "The bloody hell did I jus' see?"
Viconia: "Surfacers can be so stupid."