Writing for video games and political views
Papy_Silk
Member Posts: 44
Hey 
I thought I should post my point of vue on this, since I'm a transperson, and also a professionnal writer and RPG writer. There's no TLDR because I'm super mean.
As a RPG writer, I worked on a project close to the scale of Dragonspear - 20+ persons team, 30 hours of gameplay. I wrote about 100 000 words, and 100 000 words is a lot, especially when you need to enter them in a poorly made editor. When I read that Dragonspear is 500 000 words long, I have a rather good idea how long this is. And I think I can see the difficulties BG writers encountered.
I'm also a huge fan of Baldur's Gate 2 (Baldur's Gate, not so much) and the Icewind Dale series. I wrote mods for BG2 before it was cool - nearly 15 years ago. (wow I feel old now) I played thousands of hours on infinity engines games, and hundreds of ours modding for them. Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind Dale 2 are my legendary games. I have for them the same mixed feeling of poetry, tenderness and amazement as I have for the persons i fall in love with. If you can fall in love with a game, then I fell in love with the voice of Maralie describing the wandering boars on the frosted tundra, I fell in love with the emotion in the dryads voice describing the twisted relationship between Irenicus and Ellesime... I think these games are awesome. Baldur's Gate 2 being the most complete of all.
I won't lie : I didn't buy Dragonspear. I bought BGEE, IWDEE, BG2EE, and I stopped there because I got disappointed. The quality just wasn't worth the cost. Enhanced Editions are supposed to be... well, enhanced. I didn't feel it was enhanced enough to be worth it. (and well it was clear since the beginning that the enhanced part would be more like "it will allow us to build more things on it" than "we will actually enhance the game") I bought regular versions of IWD2 for a friend and myself, it was way more cheap and after 10 years I know how to fix the multiplayer - while with the enhanced editions, I have no idea how to get around the bugs. I played through BGEE and the beginning of BG2EE and the writing was nice. I was never a big fan of BG to begin with but BG2EE seemed ok.
BG is, in my opinion, a rather classic and a bit boring D&D adventure. You kill goblins, you gain xp, then you kill a wolf, and in the end oh my god, a MAGE, and well, hard battle but you kill him and wow, this sure is medieval fantasy ! And in my opinion, boring. Herb is herb, trees are trees, magical wands are magical wands, no symbols, no thinking, no meaning... A bit like Dragon Age you know ? I enjoyed it but god, the backstory had few interest. (not none - but few) Sure you're a child of Bhaal but in BG it sounds like you're a badass, while in BG2 it sounds like this is a damn curse and it creates a ton of more interesting things that way. And you can still chose to see yourself as a badass which means nothing is lost in the process.
I probably exagerate but I think you get what I want to say. Baldur's Gate 2 is a lot deeper.
Fantasy can be a way to add mana trees everywhere and everything is magical and wow so much magic ; or it can be a way to represents our reality with different tools (with just as much magic everywhere). I think Terry Pratchett and Ursula K Le Guin are super good at this - and that's why it's quality fantasy. Sure it's about magic and death and demons and elfs, but all these things are meaning something.
This kind of thinking is making art boring. And unnecessary in the process of making the world a better place.
Take the webcomic "Go Get a Roomie". It was really good until the author decided that her comic needed every possible character for every possible minority. Honnestly when the trans character was added I rolled my eyes and thought "oh god, can this really get more pathetic". It's sad because the comic did a very good job at describing a cute and poetic relationship between two woman - a sexaholic and a sleepaholic. But in the end it became boring.
Art can transform people into better people. I think most persons I encountered IRL made me a better person ; and I think, as a transperson, I make a lot of people better by just chatting with them. They understand I'm just normal, sometimes cool, sometimes pathetic, just like everyone. But my whole purpose in life is not to make them better persons. I was not created, constructed for that. I'm just existing, and my existence makes them better.
Well art is the same. You don't need to think about how to make them better - you just do you job, as a good person, and because you did it well, they will become better persons. If you actively seek to transform them, then you're not creating art, you're creating a tool. You're not leaving people free to absorb the art and make it theirs - you're forcing the way you want them to absorb it. It's not more efficient (it has great chances to be less efficient in fact), and it makes your art bad and broken. Just like advertising can rarely create good pieces of art, because its main objective is often not to create something good, but to advertise and make money.
Orson Scott Card's "Ender Wiggin" trilogy is a pretty good example of that. The author political views are terrible, but the book is actually super good, and it made me a better person. The author didn't try to colour the book with his ideas. (even though the book does talk about religion and such) He just wrote a good book. And the fun fact is, even with an author with terrible political views, the book is still turning people into better people.
It all boils down to the idea that if we do a good job it will work out somehow - and it does, and it always did.
You should, in my opinion, create art because you want it to exist. To create something beautiful, and pour yourself into it. Don't think about politics, don't think about what is "good" or "bad", because we have little power or understanding on that kind of things. If you think you can really chose what you are saying and what your readers are understanding, then you're treating art very very lightly.
You can make a game with only white people in it. You can make a game with only cisgender people in it. It's not bad. There's places in this world where only white people live. There's places in this world where all transpersons are invisible - there's also places where there is no transgender person at all. It's OK. Every piece of art is not supposed to cover every part of the world. You will often end up covering what you wanted to cover anyway - but it will end up being more natural.
I wrote a story where there is only white people in it, and where the only trans person (a background character) is mentally ill, can't poop alone and stinks. Did I think "what a poor image of transpersons I'm giving", or "oh lord, it's unfair, there's no black people in it". No. I shouldn't care about that. If my character is more interesting mentally ill, then it will be mentally ill. There was very valid and important artistic reasons to make it that way.
Art is chaotic neutral. And that's fine.
Which doesn't mean that I think there's no problem with the way some things are represented in general. I do think videogames deserves diversity. Diversity is super-important. But it should be about how the game pool is diverse, not about how characters in a game are diverse. Diversity is something to create at the industry level. Not inside the game.
I'm currently writing a short romantic novels where the two main characters are black women and love each other. Initially it was just a story in the desert. Then I created the first character, and she was interested in another woman because it was interesting to develop her that way at that point for various reasons, then they were black because people in that desert have a black skin. I never intended to make a black lesbian romance. It could have been totally anything, but it went that way naturally. In fact I just only realized now that I'm writing this that I have been writing a black lesbian romance all along. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If you ask me to add a transgender in this I will say "no", because it wouldn't fit in my story at all and it wouldn't be interesting. Maybe in another story.
- people in RPG are always throwing their life at your face. That's how most RPGs works. It's due to the way it's made. They are talking about various personal things, sometimes very personal, on your first meeting, why shouldn't they explain the meaning of their name ? There's tons of BG character that spend time explaining their name already.
- not every trans person actually care about stealthing and outing, or actually think it's that terrible of a problem to be trans. And on top of that, this is forgotten realms, not the united kingdoms in 2016. It's very unlikely that people are as judgemental about that as in our world.
- every trans character (or minority) doesn't need to be super detailed and expanded. It's ok to have transgender character in the background. Treat them like normal characters - they're normal characters.
- we should really stop being all emo about everything and all aggressive about everything. Seriously. I quickly read the dialog and the lines that seemed to pose problem and I really don't get how you can create a controversy out of this. It's insignificant.
I think trans characters can be cool but you should just be free about how and what. If trans is the only attribute they have and if they're not even fun, one can wonder why they are here. Just make them like you would make any other character. It will end up being nice.
Yeah, you can make them fun. Yeah, humor is OK. Yeah they can be dumb and airheaded and whatever. Yeah it's OK to make fun of situations like one person discovering the other has a penis, just like it's fun to have Edwina around. (that Pillars or Eternity controversy, seriously...) As long as you, the author, have no ill intentions and are not mocking or belittling the trans character, then there's little chance your art will be anything other than positive.
It's what Baldurs Gate is all about, isn't it ? Fun, sweet and somewhat bitter character. You laugh but it's still interesting to read. Not every character need to be as emo as Jaheira in BG2.
Japan is making great art with transgender people. The transgender aspect is often the source of the laugh, and guess what, some of them (like Prunus Girl or Boku Girl) are very much appreciated by transpersons. Because it can be cool and fun and talk about something serious at the same time. Yup. And as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty good at curing my depression.
There will always be some SJW displeased by how you've handled your game, because basically they wanted you to make something political and you did not. Ignoring them is OK. Just make great, coherent games. That's your work.
And don't forget that SJW and third-wave feminism is not the absolute truth about social justice. In fact I know a lot of social justice actors that don't like neither SJWs not third-wave feminism, and as a transperson and feminist myself, I think there is little social justice in most SJW and third-wave feminists actions.
But I'm not there to debate that, I have more than my share of this everyday.
Just my 2 cents on this.
Love
I thought I should post my point of vue on this, since I'm a transperson, and also a professionnal writer and RPG writer. There's no TLDR because I'm super mean.
Baldur's Gate and I
As a transperson, I'm used to discuss with other transpersons about both the politics and philosophy aspect of it. Both IRL and on forums, I exchanged point of vues with other transpersons for years about how we should get represented or not ; how to fight for visibility and the challenges it is in a world where transpersons want to be stealthed. I discussed prostitution with prostitutes, activism with activists... I think I have a rather good idea of what being trans can mean (and believe me it really differs a lot from one person to another). And since I did chose to transition (or at least one of the infinite path of transition), I also experienced concrete effects of transition.As a RPG writer, I worked on a project close to the scale of Dragonspear - 20+ persons team, 30 hours of gameplay. I wrote about 100 000 words, and 100 000 words is a lot, especially when you need to enter them in a poorly made editor. When I read that Dragonspear is 500 000 words long, I have a rather good idea how long this is. And I think I can see the difficulties BG writers encountered.
I'm also a huge fan of Baldur's Gate 2 (Baldur's Gate, not so much) and the Icewind Dale series. I wrote mods for BG2 before it was cool - nearly 15 years ago. (wow I feel old now) I played thousands of hours on infinity engines games, and hundreds of ours modding for them. Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind Dale 2 are my legendary games. I have for them the same mixed feeling of poetry, tenderness and amazement as I have for the persons i fall in love with. If you can fall in love with a game, then I fell in love with the voice of Maralie describing the wandering boars on the frosted tundra, I fell in love with the emotion in the dryads voice describing the twisted relationship between Irenicus and Ellesime... I think these games are awesome. Baldur's Gate 2 being the most complete of all.
I won't lie : I didn't buy Dragonspear. I bought BGEE, IWDEE, BG2EE, and I stopped there because I got disappointed. The quality just wasn't worth the cost. Enhanced Editions are supposed to be... well, enhanced. I didn't feel it was enhanced enough to be worth it. (and well it was clear since the beginning that the enhanced part would be more like "it will allow us to build more things on it" than "we will actually enhance the game") I bought regular versions of IWD2 for a friend and myself, it was way more cheap and after 10 years I know how to fix the multiplayer - while with the enhanced editions, I have no idea how to get around the bugs. I played through BGEE and the beginning of BG2EE and the writing was nice. I was never a big fan of BG to begin with but BG2EE seemed ok.
BG is, in my opinion, a rather classic and a bit boring D&D adventure. You kill goblins, you gain xp, then you kill a wolf, and in the end oh my god, a MAGE, and well, hard battle but you kill him and wow, this sure is medieval fantasy ! And in my opinion, boring. Herb is herb, trees are trees, magical wands are magical wands, no symbols, no thinking, no meaning... A bit like Dragon Age you know ? I enjoyed it but god, the backstory had few interest. (not none - but few) Sure you're a child of Bhaal but in BG it sounds like you're a badass, while in BG2 it sounds like this is a damn curse and it creates a ton of more interesting things that way. And you can still chose to see yourself as a badass which means nothing is lost in the process.
I probably exagerate but I think you get what I want to say. Baldur's Gate 2 is a lot deeper.
Fantasy can be a way to add mana trees everywhere and everything is magical and wow so much magic ; or it can be a way to represents our reality with different tools (with just as much magic everywhere). I think Terry Pratchett and Ursula K Le Guin are super good at this - and that's why it's quality fantasy. Sure it's about magic and death and demons and elfs, but all these things are meaning something.
Politics and Arts
Everything has its place in videogames. But you don't add a transgender person because you have to. You add them because you think it will be cool. If you add a transgender person because at that point you thought it was interesting, well, that's nice. If you add it because you're a SJW and think everything should be represented in your game then you're doing politics, not game-making. And I'm not interested in that kind of art - because in my opinion it's not art. It's politics. When an artistic choice is driven by anything else than artistic sense, I feel it and I lose interest.This kind of thinking is making art boring. And unnecessary in the process of making the world a better place.
Take the webcomic "Go Get a Roomie". It was really good until the author decided that her comic needed every possible character for every possible minority. Honnestly when the trans character was added I rolled my eyes and thought "oh god, can this really get more pathetic". It's sad because the comic did a very good job at describing a cute and poetic relationship between two woman - a sexaholic and a sleepaholic. But in the end it became boring.
Art can transform people into better people. I think most persons I encountered IRL made me a better person ; and I think, as a transperson, I make a lot of people better by just chatting with them. They understand I'm just normal, sometimes cool, sometimes pathetic, just like everyone. But my whole purpose in life is not to make them better persons. I was not created, constructed for that. I'm just existing, and my existence makes them better.
Well art is the same. You don't need to think about how to make them better - you just do you job, as a good person, and because you did it well, they will become better persons. If you actively seek to transform them, then you're not creating art, you're creating a tool. You're not leaving people free to absorb the art and make it theirs - you're forcing the way you want them to absorb it. It's not more efficient (it has great chances to be less efficient in fact), and it makes your art bad and broken. Just like advertising can rarely create good pieces of art, because its main objective is often not to create something good, but to advertise and make money.
Orson Scott Card's "Ender Wiggin" trilogy is a pretty good example of that. The author political views are terrible, but the book is actually super good, and it made me a better person. The author didn't try to colour the book with his ideas. (even though the book does talk about religion and such) He just wrote a good book. And the fun fact is, even with an author with terrible political views, the book is still turning people into better people.
It all boils down to the idea that if we do a good job it will work out somehow - and it does, and it always did.
You should, in my opinion, create art because you want it to exist. To create something beautiful, and pour yourself into it. Don't think about politics, don't think about what is "good" or "bad", because we have little power or understanding on that kind of things. If you think you can really chose what you are saying and what your readers are understanding, then you're treating art very very lightly.
You can make a game with only white people in it. You can make a game with only cisgender people in it. It's not bad. There's places in this world where only white people live. There's places in this world where all transpersons are invisible - there's also places where there is no transgender person at all. It's OK. Every piece of art is not supposed to cover every part of the world. You will often end up covering what you wanted to cover anyway - but it will end up being more natural.
I wrote a story where there is only white people in it, and where the only trans person (a background character) is mentally ill, can't poop alone and stinks. Did I think "what a poor image of transpersons I'm giving", or "oh lord, it's unfair, there's no black people in it". No. I shouldn't care about that. If my character is more interesting mentally ill, then it will be mentally ill. There was very valid and important artistic reasons to make it that way.
Art is chaotic neutral. And that's fine.
Which doesn't mean that I think there's no problem with the way some things are represented in general. I do think videogames deserves diversity. Diversity is super-important. But it should be about how the game pool is diverse, not about how characters in a game are diverse. Diversity is something to create at the industry level. Not inside the game.
I'm currently writing a short romantic novels where the two main characters are black women and love each other. Initially it was just a story in the desert. Then I created the first character, and she was interested in another woman because it was interesting to develop her that way at that point for various reasons, then they were black because people in that desert have a black skin. I never intended to make a black lesbian romance. It could have been totally anything, but it went that way naturally. In fact I just only realized now that I'm writing this that I have been writing a black lesbian romance all along. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If you ask me to add a transgender in this I will say "no", because it wouldn't fit in my story at all and it wouldn't be interesting. Maybe in another story.
Dragonspear
I don't want to write a lot directly on the dragonspear problem because I didn't play through it and I don't like talking about things I don't know. But reading some of the controversy, here's some things I'd like to point out, that have already been pointed out but should be enforced :- people in RPG are always throwing their life at your face. That's how most RPGs works. It's due to the way it's made. They are talking about various personal things, sometimes very personal, on your first meeting, why shouldn't they explain the meaning of their name ? There's tons of BG character that spend time explaining their name already.
- not every trans person actually care about stealthing and outing, or actually think it's that terrible of a problem to be trans. And on top of that, this is forgotten realms, not the united kingdoms in 2016. It's very unlikely that people are as judgemental about that as in our world.
- every trans character (or minority) doesn't need to be super detailed and expanded. It's ok to have transgender character in the background. Treat them like normal characters - they're normal characters.
- we should really stop being all emo about everything and all aggressive about everything. Seriously. I quickly read the dialog and the lines that seemed to pose problem and I really don't get how you can create a controversy out of this. It's insignificant.
I think trans characters can be cool but you should just be free about how and what. If trans is the only attribute they have and if they're not even fun, one can wonder why they are here. Just make them like you would make any other character. It will end up being nice.
Yeah, you can make them fun. Yeah, humor is OK. Yeah they can be dumb and airheaded and whatever. Yeah it's OK to make fun of situations like one person discovering the other has a penis, just like it's fun to have Edwina around. (that Pillars or Eternity controversy, seriously...) As long as you, the author, have no ill intentions and are not mocking or belittling the trans character, then there's little chance your art will be anything other than positive.
It's what Baldurs Gate is all about, isn't it ? Fun, sweet and somewhat bitter character. You laugh but it's still interesting to read. Not every character need to be as emo as Jaheira in BG2.
Japan is making great art with transgender people. The transgender aspect is often the source of the laugh, and guess what, some of them (like Prunus Girl or Boku Girl) are very much appreciated by transpersons. Because it can be cool and fun and talk about something serious at the same time. Yup. And as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty good at curing my depression.
There will always be some SJW displeased by how you've handled your game, because basically they wanted you to make something political and you did not. Ignoring them is OK. Just make great, coherent games. That's your work.
And don't forget that SJW and third-wave feminism is not the absolute truth about social justice. In fact I know a lot of social justice actors that don't like neither SJWs not third-wave feminism, and as a transperson and feminist myself, I think there is little social justice in most SJW and third-wave feminists actions.
But I'm not there to debate that, I have more than my share of this everyday.
Just my 2 cents on this.
Love
19
Comments
I can only advice to play SoD (probably, after it's patched so that you see the modified version of the encounter with that NPC) and share your views in that part basing them on the game, and not on what is written somewhere.
@Francois : Yep, and commercial choices taking the place of artistic choices are just as bad as political choices. All are pretty bad for the quality of the game. The sad things is, most of these "marketing" or "commercial" choices are just totally useless at actually making more money. Like this idea that adding dragons will make sales skyrockets. But heh, you have to please investors and make them feel safe, even if they have no idea what's going on.
I love how we're getting all these essays about "don't politically include anything" in reference primarily to transgender people, but I don't see people writing about how Call of Duty promotes American jingoism, military adventurism, and gun culture. Because as games go CoD is quite political, whichever side you take on those topics. It makes the whole thing pretty inconsistent.
*applauds*
As a Canadian that got over LGBT people over 20 years ago, I'm extremely fed up to be force fed the same, constant, ultra pro LGBT/race/feminism whatever thing. The moral stagnation is horrible. It would be great if people promoting acceptance of transgender people, for example, could do it toward hateful rednecks and leave us the hell alone instead of promoting said acceptance over and over in a groundhog day kind of loop toward people already accepting/not caring of said transgender people.
Stop with these pointless political statements aimed at the wrong audience. Go in a hateful part of the world, take your social justice warrior cause with you, set up shop somewhere, distribute fliers or something, keep a couple of armed guards with you and leave us alone already.
Surely you can muster a better argument than that.
Also, I would argue that acceptance still has a long way to go, and that media representation is an important part of how acceptance evolves and matures. Which is to say, if acceptance is a thing like you say, the best thing to do is include lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and transgender people.
Also, I notice you completely ignored my point about Call of Duty being political. It's not the only heavily political game out there, at any part of the spectrum. Why is it so gosh-darned important to eliminate LGBT representation to get politics out of games, but other more right-leaning politics are just dandy?
Oh and I don't believe you. If you genuinely "got over LGBT people over 20 years ago" you wouldn't be complaining so much about being exposed to one.
It makes them feel good, feel like they've fought for a good cause, when in fact, it changed nothing because they aren't fighting the people that needs to be fought. It's more like moral masturbation.
You don't need a game to be feminist to promote feminism. That's what I'm trying to explain here. Having a game where you play a strong woman that walks outside the common path is how you promote feminism. You don't need to add artifical feminists character in it that will artificially explain feminist points of vue. First, because that simply doesn't work. And second, because that hurts the quality 99% of the time.
You want sexist cisgender white males to be less sexists ? Make them play cool games with powerful women in them. Make them play heroins in shitty situations. Make them play heroins that don't always have a beautiful ass and beautifuls breasts. (for example Illaoi in League of Legends) Don't try to make politics. Just make cool stories. It works. It's the only thing that actually works.
I DID critic Call of Duty and all games that promotes guns (and are usually sustained by the weapon industry...). Other people did too. You might have missed some videos and great critics about this.
What Maximvs is trying to explain is that he doesn't give a damn if he plays a game where the main character is trans, as long as he doesn't feel like the LGBT agenda is pushed on him every second. He just want to play the damn game and having fun with his cool trans character. He doesn't need you to yell at him that trans are cool. He already know it. He just want to play.
I'm the same. You don't need to yell at me every second that transpeople are OK. I'm trans damnit. I know it. I just want to play the game.
Create games that make people think "wow trans are cool people", not games that yell at them "trans are cool people", hurting the whole experience in the process. That just doesn't work.
I'm not yelling at anyone that trans people are "okay."
Maximvs literally said that as a straight white guy he is biologically averse to transgender women. If that doesn't sound like he has a problem with the appearance of transgender women in any context than I'm not sure what will.
This game doesn't yell at anyone "trans people are cool people." It has one character who relates a brief explanation about being transgender if asked twice about her name. This isn't yelling.
Still I think your distinction between political art and "just good art" is a bit too easy You mention Pratchet and Le Guin. Both have a lot of politcal meaning to their works. But they don't achieve this by "representation" but with irony, metaphors and the like.
So while I think art IS intrinsically political I agree that the idea of third wave feminism - that representation and "visibility" creates a change of conciousness - are really oversimplified and not the way you create progressive art.
And games with diverse casts are better for all of us. They mean more stories can be told, and will probably do better than detractors believe.
The point I wanted to make is that representation alone is not enough to tackle the complexity of how oppression works and to make the reader sympathetic with the struggle against it.
Include all kinds of characters. Even completely unlikable bigots, for that matter. As long as they are well written and are great and "real" characters, the players will love it. David Gaider is on board now, and that fellow is a master at it. He also pushes strongly for inclusion, which is vital. But he also goes about it the right way. His characters feel like real people, and you really get to know what makes them tick.
Inane rant over.
I've read the Mizhena dialog and I quite understand why it actually annoyed a majority of people. It feels so fake, so forced, it's unbearable. It's really political propaganda. It's not even a character.
Most of us don't want to be represented in culture like that. We want to be represented as normal characters, because that's how we will become normal. That mizhena thing didn't help us at all. I'm not the only trans person to say that. Another trans woman was quite angry and I understand what she means, even though I disagree with the way she says it : http://i.imgur.com/lZyb8GN.jpg
There's also another long thread on this forum with at least two transwomen saying exactly the same thing. If even we transwoman feel this is fake, wrong, and overall negative, there must be a problem...
@Graf_Wasili : of course art is itself political. Everything is political. And art, since it changes the way we see the world, is super political. But the way art is political, is by existing. Ursula K Le Guin doesn't tell you what she thinks of the world. None of her characters is a vessel for her political views. She writes a book in a setup and let you experience what happens in this setup. You read it, and then your understanding of the world increases. That's how she turns people into better people, and ultimately she never has to tell people what she thinks. They end up agreeing with her because her art itself is the explanation.
"The Tombs of Atuan", in the cycle of Earthsea, is one of my favorite books ever, if not my favorite. It's a feminist book. And when I read it I knew it was about me, as a woman. None of it was directly political. But if I'm the woman I am today, it's because when I was 13 I read that book and it changed me. It changed and deepened my understanding of religion, of sex, of abuse. But in the end it's just a story about a girl whose life gets stolen and who were sent to a god to be eaten inside by him. At no point the author explains you anything about anything. But this is so 1000 times more political than Mizhena, and more positive.
I do think representation is important, but most third wave feminists don't get what representation means. They think it's enough to put minorities everywhere and it will work. That's not how it works. These representations need to make sense and to be positive. It has to be part of the art. Else it will produce the exact opposite effect : instead of inducing people to think trans are cool (because art is cool and trans are inside it), they will make people think it's uncool because it breaks something cool (art). And Mizhena is the best example of it.
@Diogenes42 : exactly ! And that's why Mizhena doesn't help. She's not positive. She's not even normal. (which would lead people to think : wow trans are so normal) She's just random propaganda and these kind of things tend to infuriate most people.
The reason it feels this much as propaganda is because of the writing, mostly. When I read the mizhena dialog, there's no fiction in it. I hear a very monocord voice, without character, saying the most policed and well-explained description of what it means to be trans. It's so much trying to be politically correct and real-life-explaining it just totally fails at being a videogame dialog.
I'm not a native english speaker but here's tentative examples of the same text that would actually feel less like propaganda and wouldn't probably have created such a ruckus (though I would still have not included Mizhena in this state in my game) :
== Serious Mizhena ==
"The name was a male one, since I was born male. I became a female decades ago, and decided to pick a more fitting one for a battle priestess.
- It makes sense. I have something else to ask.
- Well that's a... nice name. Very uuuh... Feminine. I guess ? Well, I have to ask you something else.
- I have to be going now."
== Awkward Mizhena ==
"It was a boy's name. And I'm a girl. I don't blame my parents though, I looked like a boy. Everywhere. Uuuh. Too much informations. Sorry. Could we talk about something else ?
- I see. Errr, I think I see. Well, anyway. I have something else to ask.
- Wow. You used to be a boy ? That's amazing ! Let me ask you something else.
- It's... It's a trap ! *Flee.*
- I have to be going now."
== Funny Mizhena == [note: I don't know the names that sound ridiculous in english so imagine these are]
"Well, my name used to be KEVIN. Do you know many girls who'd like to get called Kevin ? Just because you're born male doesn't mean you deserve to be afflicted with this. KEVIN. Oh god. I mean, I don't know. Edwin maybe. It's cute. You can always go with "Edwina". It has a sincere touch. But Kevin, let's be serious.
- ... Okay. Well. Let's talk about something else.
- Oh I so understand you. If I had to be called [Felicity/CHAR_MALE] [Rodney/CHAR_FEMALE] it would mess up my whole adventurer's life. Can I ask you something else by the way ?
- Oh you changed sex ? I always wondered what happens down there when you equip that girdle but... Wait wait. No I don't want to know. Really. Let me ask you something else.
- I have to be going now."
That's only part of the dialogue. That wouldn't completly fix the problem because the whole thing is awkward : why does CHARNAME insist to know why she changed her name ? Why is Mizhena talking about it instead of brushing it of with a "I just didn't like it" ? Why did she actually change her name anyway ? Wouldn't the dialog be more interesting and natural if she actually had a male name, and CHARNAME could go something like :
"- hey that's a male name
- well yeah
- your parents are funny
- well I used to be a male, but I kept the name because I like it
- oh you're a strange one. Can I ask you something else ?"
If I had to include a random trans character I would have chosen something more fun than a Tempus Cleric. A transgender tempus cleric is a pretty complex character to understand for most people (honnestly I'm a rather masculine transgirl and even I have quite a hard time picturing mizhena as it stands), and you only have 3 banters to explain her.
But overall, I think it's quite hard to have a supporting trans character because it's unlikely anyone would talk about it. Either it's a trans character and it's a bit developped, or it's a supporting character and nobody will ever know she's trans because well, why would anyone know or care ?
You could make a quest from a guy who want the girdle to change his sex. It would allow a lot of fun and eventually interesting dialogs.
As it stands there's so many problem with the mizhena character, you can't really fix it. Everything in it is not natural and feel forced and fake. You'd better change the character itself, the setup, the backstory, the way the dialog is written... Well everything, pretty much.
It became a useless controversy because everything about her was wrong. Had it been a bit less wrong, it would have been meh and people would have frown, but no controversy would have raised.
But this is just including characters with different stories, not propaganda. Sorry, I just don't see your take as being particularly accurate.
The first thing I've read about Sense8 is a dumb contact saying "Lol this first episode is so much LGBT propaganda" and I answered angrily (without seeing the episode) something along the lines "just because there is LGBT in it doesn't mean it's propaganda".
Then I watched the episode and it was honnestly painful how much useless and incoherent LGBT things were thrown at you just for the sake of throwing them and I was like "uuuuh, OK, this is annoying". The next episodes were OK and I enjoyed the show. The trans character was annoying as a character but well written (and kudos for having both a trans filmmaker and a trans actress), there was really nice scenes (like the ones with the mother, oh god), and most of all it was good how the trans character was not defined by her transness at all. I think it's one of the best written trans character I've ever seen on TV or cinema.
But the first episode was a pain to watch for me.
I'm wonder why ؟
I'm just answering the whole "you're like this because you're not used to see LGBT" which gets a bit old when you're talking to trans lesbian persons who read 200 pages of yuri/gender bender per day.
I can't help but continue to think that the bar for viewing LGBT characters as propaganda is set very low.
I never said you did not ; and by the way, I never said there weren't a ton of transphobic assholes on the internet. Most of those reacted especially badly to this character BECAUSE they are transphobic assholes. I think we agree on this : apart from the "political/art" discussion, there's also the simple truth that assholes are assholes and that a lot of persons involved in this drama are just transphobic.
Your point since the beginning is "you're seeing this as propaganda because you're not used to it". I'm used to it. And I see this as propaganda. Your point is invalid. That's all.
I never said all LGBT people were seeing Mizhena badly or Sense8 first episode badly. Far from it. A lot of spectators or players are not annoyed by things like this. Cis or Trans. Good for them.
Now you have people - trans, lesbians, cis and het, all used to see LGBT representations and enjoy them - who tells you they actually feel this character is a problem and you're saying "YOU are the problem because you're not used to see LGBT representations". That's nonsense.
You can continue insist you know better than us who we are and what we read and watch everyday, and what we fight for everyday.
Or you can just admit that not everyone see things like you do and that a lot of people are bothered by these kind of things in their artistic content.
Especially since this problem can easily be fixed by doing what we always did : include great representations of LGBT people naturally, that won't offend all those people (but just the same old tiny stupid fraction of them), and that will, as usual, make us feel better. With time.
@KcoQuidam : There's no need for an author to push the cisgender agenda via a fake-looking character. Because there's no cisgender agenda. Why would they need one ? The society doesn't oppress cisgender for being cisgender. They don't even know they're cis.
So there's no character who's cisgender just for the sake of being cisgender and making a point. That doesn't make sense.
But you might find exactly the same kind of fake-looking character killing your whole story by trying to sell you religious views. It's pretty common. But we're lucky enough to rarely have to watch those kind of things. (I watched a series the other day where a character solely existed to explain you how god was great. I nearly puked.)
Why do we need a reason for a trans character ? The writers know the existence of trans people. So they want to have one. They have one.
I'll never say you dont aknowkeldge that. I just strongly disagree with the way you judge what are "propaganda" and what are not. You say you wouldn't be judge for your writing where your write white character and only one trans-mentally ill character. So you choose to do that. If you think you have right to call propaganda when writer put characters they chose you must look at your same work and apply the same logic.
So all is propaganda or no one is. If no one is this discuss is totally pointless. If all is I just look at what propaganda make me less inconfortable.
("There no cis agenda" you right by the way there no cis agenda, just transphobic agenda. The point of cis character being cis is just erase trans existence. Doesn't change anything to my remark: if I have to look at all this non-trans poorly written character who are non-trans with no reason and call it propaganda it litteraly take half my lifetime)
Let's take another example. (fictionnal but good) The other day, I was reading Harry Potter, then in the middle of the second tome, there's this weird discussion, exactly like that :
=======
"Who are you ?" Harry asked
"I am a french bookstore cleric. It's really hard on us nowadays, with Amazon and such. They are really hurting us and I think I will have to close my library soon, if nobody buy from bookstores anymore and everybody continues to buy from the internet."
"Oh that's sad. We should really buy from bookstores. Well see you, I'm gonna buy my broomstick."
=======
Now Amazon is really hurting bookstores in france, you know, and I'm regularly posting things to encourage people buying from them. BUT WTF IS THIS DOING IN MY HARRY POTTER BOOK ? It doesn't make sense. It's not even coherent with the story. Sure Amazon also exist in the HP books but why is it treated that way ? Sure JK Rowling could have treated the subject a lot better.
At that point even if I like bookstores and bookstores clercs, all I feel is that they annoy me and they ruined my fun.
Well that exactly what I feel when I read Mizhena dialog. It's cool and I agree, but WTF, seriously.
Being trans for no purpose is totally different that being trans for the sole purpose of being trans.
I have no problem with characters being randomly trans for no reason. On the contrary ! As I stated in my first post, I totally disagree with the idea that trans character should always be developped. Having random character being trans with 2 lines of dialogs is both fine and necessary.
If a person is cis for the sole purpose of being cis, this is as much a problem. (but that doesn't exist, as right now that would make no sense)
As you stated, there is a transphobic agenda, but character that are fake and just exist for the sole purpose of pushing transphobic views onto you are pretty rare. And they are, of course, a problem too. (they are of course even more a problem since they support terrible views instead of good ones ^^" )
As for the difference between political writing and artistic writing with political meaning, I explained this extensively already. This is not the same, and this does very rarely look similar for a lot of readers.
@Diogenes42 it is saying that transgender people have the right to exist, that they can auto-determinate themselves by chosing who they are and how they present, and that we should respect them. Basically everything that transphobic people hate (and let's be honnest, the whole society which is also transphobic as a system)
(Obviously I 100% back up these claims !...)
2) funny. You remove "Amazon" and it look like a lot of other NPC background in fact. Why talk about their current problem because it's how it work in a lot of crpg game to have local background revelation. Replace "Amazon" by "The Inquisition" or "The director news rules" and it's a catchy start for an investigation quest.
3) Not a true example like you sayed.
4) There a LOT of thing I don't buy Baldur's Gate for but are in the game (like cis-straight-for-no-reason character). I dont call that propaganda.
But Amazon is necessary to make you understand that the way you write is important. The way Mizhena is written is super weird.
(a) The issue is disproportionned. In the first case you don't see WTF are we talking about the state of real life muggles libraries in the middle of a HP book where muggles are usually treated from afar. In the second case you wonder WTF are we insisting that much about Mizhena name - asking about it is OK at first, then asking why she didn't like the original one, while she's a random NPC with 3 banters, seems totally weird.
(b) The writing codes differs. In the first case you don't understand while suddenly there's a real brand that shows up (while usually brands are avoided), in the second you don't understand why the writing is suddenly so stiff and formal.
(c) It feels like real life suddenly, it doesn't fit, it's treated like social theory. Why would Harry Potter bother about real life bookstore suddenly, and why are we suddenly talking about the society ? Why would a Forgotten Realm character say "we all came to understand I was truly a woman" instead of "I was a girl in my head ya know ?" Suddenly it feels like a Huffington Post about bookstores, suddenly it feels like a third wave feminism post about the importance of picking the right words.
(d) You have no right to disagree, and the way you agree is super obedient and forced, as if it was a well learnt lesson. This is the worst because you really feel like there's something you need to learn and remember here. And you usually don't like people to tell you what to think.
This is especially sad since, as I set example above, you don't even need transphobic answers to offer a diversity of interesting reactions. And even if you want to set a transphobic answer, that's OK ! We're talking about a game where you can play a serial killer, torturer, murderer... You could have a transphobic comment, especially if you add it so that it feels ridiculous to say. A parody of bigotry would be perfect. This way you let people be assholes if they want, but you make sure to let them understand how much assholes their character is, and how much they are IRL is they think the same.