I tried the iwd npc mod, it is a well enough mod and alleviates the lack of banter in iwd. However, I still found it boring tbh. Because it is rest/kill monsters/rest again with little strategy or variety and you need to go back to Kuldahar here and there, to sell stuff and raise fallen members. Even Kuldahar is so boring, because every important shop is so far apart and you need to travel between the roots of the great oak. That really puts me out of the game. I have little enough free time as it is, and bg2 with a lot of mods is so much better than iwd, sorry.
Made a party.. got up to Dragon's eye before I yawn-Xed the game. I'm not sure why either because I love BG2. Was it the fact that I created the entire party and rofl-stomped everything on the hardest level? I dont know..
It's not boring. In fact, I doubt that you actually beat most of the stuff on the highest level (unless you used mods that broke the game balance).
IWD is DIFFERENT than BG2. It's meant to be. The region of Icewind Dale is much less populated than Amn or Baldur's Gate. Most of the battles are against larger packs of weak-ish monsters. There are no party dialogues or such, because obvious reasons. But really, it is not a worse game.
IWD was always not as good but still equally as good when you've played bg to death. IWD lacks the companions mostly to be honest. Everything below about bg series IWD didn't do enough of imo other than certain voice acting from arundel. I think also iwd requires more creative rp-ing than bg. IWD qlso wasn't as large as bg1-bg2 tob so it seems short lived. The levelling in iwd was also a little fast to, like by the time your done the first shadow area your nearly lvl 4-5. You could also yeti grind that early 3 lvls. Bg1 had a more urgent sense of danger and needing to be careful especially when it took longer to get that first lvl in bg.
I see bg as one loooong game. Part 2 ( soa and on ) is just more climactic imo.) Especially with irenicus going around torturing, experimenting, capturing, and doing whatever else to you. It makes the "bad guy" more interesting than sarevok did imo. ( though the gorion part was amazing ). Like bg1 sarevok doesn't really DO a lot other than send some assassins and try and kill off a bunch of royals we don't care about. The only amazing moment with sarevok is the gorion fight at the start where theyre all badass. Irenicus constantly shows up and we also get better insight into what hes planning to do/become. Plus vampire sister Bodhi. Yeah sarevoks related to you but does anyone really care? The way bhaal worked I wouldn't be surprised if 1/10 people you meet is related to you. :P Theres also more emotion in the voice acting I think in bg2 but bgee/sod kinda added to that for part 1.
Imo the only thing bg2 missed was the exploration where you could go check out random areas like in bg1. But bg2 makes up for it with areas like underdark, etc... There are also some more amazing enemies to be fought, like dragons, lich, beholders, vampires, etc. In bg2 2/tob the struggle was a lot more apparent aswell with trying to resist the essence and turning into the slayer avatar. Added to the story.
From a story standpoint its a lot more juicy than bg1 imo, but bg1 is more of an exploration story with more things and the bg series is a lot more interesting than the IWD series because of all that.
I like all of IWD, BG2, and Diablo 2 and its clones. Different games for different moods.
BG is D&D with an even mix of role-playing and hack & slash. PS:T would be D&D with very heavy role-playing and very little hack & slash. IWD is D&D with very heavy hack & slash and very little role-playing.
I found PS:T way harder. I still haven't made it past the first few quests once you escape the morgue, because the difficulty ramped up so fast and so hard that I couldn't get any further.
@TheWhitefire , I couldn't really say, since I've never actually played PS:T, because I don't like heavy roleplaying with lots of reading and dialogue branches, and everything I've read about PS:T says that's what it is.
What combat there is may be challenging, but my impression from others is that there is relatively very little of it, and that you're supposed to avoid half of it at least through talky-talky.
@TheWhitefire , I couldn't really say, since I've never actually played PS:T, because I don't like heavy roleplaying with lots of reading and dialogue branches, and everything I've read about PS:T says that's what it is.
What combat there is may be challenging, but my impression from others is that there is relatively very little of it, and that you're supposed to avoid half of it at least through talky-talky.
I've played Ps:T plenty of times and when I hear people say "it's lots of roleplay with little combat" I can't help but disagree. In terms of combat, it is actually more like PnP than BG or IWD. Throughout the game there are many dungeons, some quite difficult, and there are lots of combat encounters as well.
It is roleplay-heavy , indeed, and it's more rewarding to solve problems through dialogue, but it doesn't mean you can't play it in a dynamic way if you don't like reading all the texts, but reading them makes it richer.
What combat there is may be challenging, but my impression from others is that there is relatively very little of it, and that you're supposed to avoid half of it at least through talky-talky.
That's not really accurate. What PST lacks is the habitual trash encounters of the BG series & IWD series. There's plenty of combat, however.
What combat there is may be challenging, but my impression from others is that there is relatively very little of it, and that you're supposed to avoid half of it at least through talky-talky.
That's not really accurate. What PST lacks is the habitual trash encounters of the BG series & IWD series. There's plenty of combat, however.
I agree. I played Ps:T for the first time when I was 11 years old, *eleven*, and I don't remember ever getting bored with it.
I agree. I played Ps:T for the first time when I was 11 years old, *eleven*, and I don't remember ever getting bored with it.
Hell, even the dialogue was entertaining. Can anyone forget this dialogue?
Annah: "Do yeh know I like the way yeh *smell?* Oh, aye - it drives me barmier than a Chaosman, it does." She sniffs up the side of your cheek, and she gives a low, eager hiss. "I see the way yeh look at me, and I *like* it. Yeh've got hungry *eyes,* yeh do. It makes me a-fire." "I want tae bite yeh, soft-like around the neck..." She teases the side of your neck with her teeth, never breaking skin, and with every whisper, you can feel her breath along your ear. Her hand slides up around the back of your neck, and tightens, and you can feel her nails digging into your skin. "I want ta drag me nails along the back of yer neck, and force yeh to kiss me."
Morte: "I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me - just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me."
Personal comments: TNO probably smells odd. Annah being sexuality attracted to the TNO because of his smell is odd. Morte being Morte. "Don't mind me!"
I agree. I played Ps:T for the first time when I was 11 years old, *eleven*, and I don't remember ever getting bored with it.
Hell, even the dialogue was entertaining. Can anyone forget this dialogue?
Annah: "Do yeh know I like the way yeh *smell?* Oh, aye - it drives me barmier than a Chaosman, it does." She sniffs up the side of your cheek, and she gives a low, eager hiss. "I see the way yeh look at me, and I *like* it. Yeh've got hungry *eyes,* yeh do. It makes me a-fire." "I want tae bite yeh, soft-like around the neck..." She teases the side of your neck with her teeth, never breaking skin, and with every whisper, you can feel her breath along your ear. Her hand slides up around the back of your neck, and tightens, and you can feel her nails digging into your skin. "I want ta drag me nails along the back of yer neck, and force yeh to kiss me."
Morte: "I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me - just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me."
Personal comments: TNO probably smells odd. Annah being sexuality attracted to the TNO because of his smell is odd. Morte being Morte. "Don't mind me!"
Everyone there was odd. Hell...Annah grew up hauling dead bodies around to sell them to the Dustmen. She first meets TNO when selling his corpse. He probably smells like a pickled corpse, given that embalming fluid acts like a healing potion for him. I'll leave Freud to work that one out.
What I loved so much about that game was the symbol of torment and how it brought so much together.
"-"The symbol that lies upon your left shoulder is the mark of torment." -"It is *torment.* It is that which draws all tormented souls to you." Fell nods at your left arm, at your shoulder. "The flesh knows it suffers even when the mind has forgotten. And so you wear the rune always." -"He says the mark lies upon you because the flesh *knows* that it suffers, even when the mind does not." -Grace says softly: "Torment." She studies the symbol, then turns away, as if looking at it is painful. "Fell says..." She takes a breath. "That the flesh knows it suffers, even when the mind forgets." She looks up and meets your gaze, and her eyes are a strange shade of azure, a shade that speaks of sadness and tears. "Fell says that the rune acts like a lodestone, drawing other tormented souls to you." -This strip of flesh holds the symbol of Torment that you have always worn; it peeled away from your arm when you realized your true name. -Pain, Agony, Suffering, Torment. When the Rune is invoked, even the earth shall resonate its anguish. Torment of the mind. Torment of the body. Torment of the soul. All will be made clear when the Circle is drawn."
All companions are broken people. They are all full of horrible pasts, insecurities, lies and despair for anything different. All are drawn to TNO because of that symbol. And while TNO can cast it off by learning his name, his companions cannot.
Planescape Torment is one of those few games, where if you really take the time to delve into it, you are left with a feeling of sadness that lingers. Never before or since have I seen such amazing writing in a game.
never do dragons eye and the severed hand in a single sitting. you greatly risk abandonning your run altogether. take pauses
The transition between Dragon's Eye and Severed Hand is probably my biggest issue with the game.
To me, the game seems to peak with Dragon's Eye and the epic battle with Yxunomei, after which Severed Hand just feels like an anti-climactic, tedious rehash of the Shadow Vale, with endless, repetitive battles against waves of undead.
Huh? The Severed Hand is my favorite part of the game.
Superb atmosphere, interesting backstory, nonlinear exploration, and an actual in-game reason for exploring and looting everything (finding machine pieces to fix the astrolabe).
And the "undead" aren't boring like those in the Vale of Shadows, at all:
On the first levels, you have enemies tactically barricaded behind walls and obstacles, as well as surprise ambushes, which makes for new and interesting combat challenges.
Below the lift you have Burning Skeletons that fireball your party (what other enemies do that?)
Then you have a main level with only peaceful creatures, and even a merchant - even though you're in the middle of a dungeon. I think that's pretty cool.
And each upper tower has a different type of shadowed elf (Priests, Mages, Fighters...), which may each require different strategies. Not to mention that the small maps with intricate room layouts, give you lots of opportunities to use the terrain to your advantage.
I don't think that's anything like the endless Shadows and Skeletons (with the occasional Zombie/Mummy) that you have to fight through in mostly open(-ish) areas in the Vale.
I have nearly completed all the IWD/HoW/TotL and I have to say, that even though this game is more combat oriented than BG, it is way easier. Here I am talking about combat only. It has tons of spells at your druids/clerics disposal that BG doesn't, and the bards are ultimate buffing machines. Monsters, even if there are hordes of them, are not nearly as challenging as mages, dragons or mind flyers (or however they are called) in BG.
Also, your party somehow progresses faster in IWD than in BG. This is the part which I actually like - I love character progression, new levels, spells, skills, hp, saves etc. BG series has more re-playability to it and of course you are more intertwined with your protagonist. But that aside, BG saga is a slower game and I am not able to play it trough in one sitting.
That said, even though the game is easier, I find it more gripping and progressing. Thus, I would vote for IWD as being the less boring one.
I agree. I played Ps:T for the first time when I was 11 years old, *eleven*, and I don't remember ever getting bored with it.
Hell, even the dialogue was entertaining. Can anyone forget this dialogue?
Annah: "Do yeh know I like the way yeh *smell?* Oh, aye - it drives me barmier than a Chaosman, it does." She sniffs up the side of your cheek, and she gives a low, eager hiss. "I see the way yeh look at me, and I *like* it. Yeh've got hungry *eyes,* yeh do. It makes me a-fire." "I want tae bite yeh, soft-like around the neck..." She teases the side of your neck with her teeth, never breaking skin, and with every whisper, you can feel her breath along your ear. Her hand slides up around the back of your neck, and tightens, and you can feel her nails digging into your skin. "I want ta drag me nails along the back of yer neck, and force yeh to kiss me."
Morte: "I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me - just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me."
Personal comments: TNO probably smells odd. Annah being sexuality attracted to the TNO because of his smell is odd. Morte being Morte. "Don't mind me!"
Everyone there was odd. Hell...Annah grew up hauling dead bodies around to sell them to the Dustmen. She first meets TNO when selling his corpse. He probably smells like a pickled corpse, given that embalming fluid acts like a healing potion for him. I'll leave Freud to work that one out.
What I loved so much about that game was the symbol of torment and how it brought so much together.
"-"The symbol that lies upon your left shoulder is the mark of torment." -"It is *torment.* It is that which draws all tormented souls to you." Fell nods at your left arm, at your shoulder. "The flesh knows it suffers even when the mind has forgotten. And so you wear the rune always." -"He says the mark lies upon you because the flesh *knows* that it suffers, even when the mind does not." -Grace says softly: "Torment." She studies the symbol, then turns away, as if looking at it is painful. "Fell says..." She takes a breath. "That the flesh knows it suffers, even when the mind forgets." She looks up and meets your gaze, and her eyes are a strange shade of azure, a shade that speaks of sadness and tears. "Fell says that the rune acts like a lodestone, drawing other tormented souls to you." -This strip of flesh holds the symbol of Torment that you have always worn; it peeled away from your arm when you realized your true name. -Pain, Agony, Suffering, Torment. When the Rune is invoked, even the earth shall resonate its anguish. Torment of the mind. Torment of the body. Torment of the soul. All will be made clear when the Circle is drawn."
All companions are broken people. They are all full of horrible pasts, insecurities, lies and despair for anything different. All are drawn to TNO because of that symbol. And while TNO can cast it off by learning his name, his companions cannot.
Planescape Torment is one of those few games, where if you really take the time to delve into it, you are left with a feeling of sadness that lingers. Never before or since have I seen such amazing writing in a game.
The entire final sequence of facing TNO's three incarnations onward is some of my favorite moments of gaming ever.
I actually enjoyed IWD more than BG. To me, at the time, it felt a lot more like table top. BG is all about the story. IWD is just your simple everyday adventure... Something that felt more akin to adventures your friends might have come up with. Plus the fact that you could create your entire party and give them your own backstories felt amazingly refreshing to me. It's the first game, only game I can think of in fact, where there is no central main character.. That's pretty unique.
IWD and the Baldurs Gate games are very different experiences for me.
I personally loved IWD. It is so incredibly beautiful, and the combat is very challenging. The feel of the game is so much more 'urgent,' and the game is considerably more tactical (and brutal!). It really felt as though you were under threat in a harsh and cruel land, and I could almost feel the icy winds of the North through its soundtrack. I am all for immersion in my games.
I suspect that part of the reason for my fondness was that I approached the game from a role-playing perspective. Because you create your own characters, I invested in them, writing full back-stories and making them behave accordingly. It also allows for more flexibility in how you play; make the game easier by having an optimum mix of different classes, or more challenging by creating characters with clear deficits.
One of my best memories was creating a gnome cleric who was illiterate and dumb (couldn't even read scrolls) but had a wisdom of 18. I made her backstory that she'd been abandoned as a small child at a temple of Helm and raised by the church. Despite being absolutely clueless about everything (she basically swept and mopped the floors and did little else) she would occasionally blurt out random words of profound insight and prophesy, and astonishingly gained the ability to cast spells (kind of like a savant). The clergy felt obligated to make her an acolyte but she was kind of a liability due to her lack of intelligence (she almost burned down her temple by lighting candles among other things) so the head priest decided to send her on a 'religious right of passage' to the North (secretly he just wanted to get rid of her). I grew to love that character and she made me laugh all the time.
There are no party banters in IWD, which can be disconcerting if you played Baldurs Gate beforehand, but it allowed my imagination to fill in the gaps and actually added to the atmosphere of isolation for me. Plus, Druids and Bards rock (as they should), but were woefully underdeveloped in Baldurs Gate and its sequels.
@MagpieRandoms , I think the voice sets in IWD are so good that they imply full characterizations. I always found myself imagining complete characters just based on those voice set lines.
IWD is similar to BG1 in content, but it was made with hack-and-slash in mind. Many reviewers compared it to Diablo II. Content-wise, it doesn't build on what the original BG has, and wasn't meant to. It shouldn't be compared to BG2 because (I'm almost positive) these criticisms that are being raised were taken into account when developing BG2.
Also IWD is good because it's easier to play casually.
Personally, I found IWD to be far, far superior to BG or BG 2 because it was so linear. The story is phenomenal, it has a great pace, while BG and BG 2, and I assume BG:TB, were waaay to loose. I personally hope that IWD 2 will be rereleased as an EE also and that someone works on an IWD 3.
I have nostalgic feelings about iwd. When i was young, my brother and i go through the game in multiplayer, every christmas time. I dont know why, it was our game at time of the year. Everything was snowy outside, and we liked the games atmosphere.
Additionally, in Icewind Dale (EE) you create your entire party from the start! You don't have to worry about meeting and needing to use A/NPCs with lackluster stats or skills! YOU are the master of your party. That in and of itself is superior to Baldur's Gate anyday.
@Ironhammer33 I would argue that story and dialogue provided by said npcs is far more interesting than the barely sentient meat puppets you make for Icewind Dale. But trying to compare these isn't really fair, they set out to do different things, and have different strengths.
@Ironhammer33 I would argue that story and dialogue provided by said npcs is far more interesting than the barely sentient meat puppets you make for Icewind Dale. But trying to compare these isn't really fair, they set out to do different things, and have different strengths.
I completely understand what you, and several others are pointing too, and I do agree that the games truly set out to achieve, and accomplished, different niches in the RPG world.
Having said that, I do truly enjoy the banter between the various NPCs in the BG series, and I know I have only encountered a handful, but again, as @MagpieRandoms stated below:
IWD and the Baldurs Gate games are very different experiences for me.
I personally loved IWD. It is so incredibly beautiful, and the combat is very challenging. The feel of the game is so much more 'urgent,' and the game is considerably more tactical (and brutal!). It really felt as though you were under threat in a harsh and cruel land, and I could almost feel the icy winds of the North through its soundtrack. I am all for immersion in my games.
I suspect that part of the reason for my fondness was that I approached the game from a role-playing perspective. Because you create your own characters, I invested in them, writing full back-stories and making them behave accordingly. It also allows for more flexibility in how you play; make the game easier by having an optimum mix of different classes, or more challenging by creating characters with clear deficits.
One of my best memories was creating a gnome cleric who was illiterate and dumb (couldn't even read scrolls) but had a wisdom of 18. I made her backstory that she'd been abandoned as a small child at a temple of Helm and raised by the church. Despite being absolutely clueless about everything (she basically swept and mopped the floors and did little else) she would occasionally blurt out random words of profound insight and prophesy, and astonishingly gained the ability to cast spells (kind of like a savant). The clergy felt obligated to make her an acolyte but she was kind of a liability due to her lack of intelligence (she almost burned down her temple by lighting candles among other things) so the head priest decided to send her on a 'religious right of passage' to the North (secretly he just wanted to get rid of her). I grew to love that character and she made me laugh all the time.
There are no party banters in IWD, which can be disconcerting if you played Baldurs Gate beforehand, but it allowed my imagination to fill in the gaps and actually added to the atmosphere of isolation for me. Plus, Druids and Bards rock (as they should), but were woefully underdeveloped in Baldurs Gate and its sequels.
I was in control of why my party was adventuring; what their stories were; why they had banded together. I was the author of their respective stories. From a role-playing perspective, I personally enjoyed that much more than only being able to create one character, whose story was very cool, but had also been predetermined for me, and then adding whichever APCs I wanted to include in my party, which was mostly dictated by, 01) their stats, and 02) their alignment/relationship with the other characters.
NOTE: I am not stating that any other RPGer would choose their APCs (I really need to find out who first coined this, they deserve recognition) based solely on stats, but I did in conjunction with "02)".
I believe both franchises are AMAZING but I often feel IWD doesn't receive as much love (vocally or digitally) as BG and I want to make sure I fight for the opportunity to see another IWD (type) game in the future.
I have beaten IWD but have yet to make it past level 04 in BG and I played both games from their respective births. I simply love IWD and never want to see it go away.
Also, if I wanted to play a dual-classed Kensai/Mage and a Dwarven Defender, IWD allowed me to do that from the beginning, while BG determined, via their APC selection, whether or not I could have both of those available to me in the game.
IWD is more about freedom than perhaps it is being given credit for.
Also, Since 2.0, BG/BGII also allow you to choose a full party. It's not the intended way to play those games (you're intended to pick one PC, and fill it up with NPCs), but if playing with your own custom party is your own preference, then that's certainly an option.
((It was also possible prior to 2.0, but it required you to move save games around, or be stuck in solo multiplayer.))
Also, Since 2.0, BG/BGII also allow you to choose a full party. It's not the intended way to play those games (you're intended to pick one PC, and fill it up with NPCs), but if playing with your own custom party is your own preference, then that's certainly an option.
((It was also possible prior to 2.0, but it required you to move save games around, or be stuck in solo multiplayer.))
APC is an acronym I saw in someone else's post I liked and have been using but have been unable to give that person credit for since I don't recall who it was.
APC stands for 'Additional Player Characters'.
With regards to playing a fully customized party in BG, I had no idea that was feasible in any fashion. Now that sounds really cool to me, (given it would nullify part of what makes BG so memorable, namely the APC interactions) but it would allow for a level of control and optimization I had not considered.
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However, I still found it boring tbh. Because it is rest/kill monsters/rest again with little strategy or variety and you need to go back to Kuldahar here and there, to sell stuff and raise fallen members. Even Kuldahar is so boring, because every important shop is so far apart and you need to travel between the roots of the great oak. That really puts me out of the game.
I have little enough free time as it is, and bg2 with a lot of mods is so much better than iwd, sorry.
IWD is DIFFERENT than BG2. It's meant to be. The region of Icewind Dale is much less populated than Amn or Baldur's Gate. Most of the battles are against larger packs of weak-ish monsters. There are no party dialogues or such, because obvious reasons. But really, it is not a worse game.
I see bg as one loooong game. Part 2 ( soa and on ) is just more climactic imo.) Especially with irenicus going around torturing, experimenting, capturing, and doing whatever else to you. It makes the "bad guy" more interesting than sarevok did imo. ( though the gorion part was amazing ). Like bg1 sarevok doesn't really DO a lot other than send some assassins and try and kill off a bunch of royals we don't care about. The only amazing moment with sarevok is the gorion fight at the start where theyre all badass. Irenicus constantly shows up and we also get better insight into what hes planning to do/become. Plus vampire sister Bodhi. Yeah sarevoks related to you but does anyone really care? The way bhaal worked I wouldn't be surprised if 1/10 people you meet is related to you. :P
Theres also more emotion in the voice acting I think in bg2 but bgee/sod kinda added to that for part 1.
Imo the only thing bg2 missed was the exploration where you could go check out random areas like in bg1. But bg2 makes up for it with areas like underdark, etc... There are also some more amazing enemies to be fought, like dragons, lich, beholders, vampires, etc. In bg2 2/tob the struggle was a lot more apparent aswell with trying to resist the essence and turning into the slayer avatar. Added to the story.
From a story standpoint its a lot more juicy than bg1 imo, but bg1 is more of an exploration story with more things and the bg series is a lot more interesting than the IWD series because of all that.
What combat there is may be challenging, but my impression from others is that there is relatively very little of it, and that you're supposed to avoid half of it at least through talky-talky.
It is roleplay-heavy , indeed, and it's more rewarding to solve problems through dialogue, but it doesn't mean you can't play it in a dynamic way if you don't like reading all the texts, but reading them makes it richer.
Everyone there was odd. Hell...Annah grew up hauling dead bodies around to sell them to the Dustmen. She first meets TNO when selling his corpse. He probably smells like a pickled corpse, given that embalming fluid acts like a healing potion for him. I'll leave Freud to work that one out.
What I loved so much about that game was the symbol of torment and how it brought so much together.
"-"The symbol that lies upon your left shoulder is the mark of torment."
-"It is *torment.* It is that which draws all tormented souls to you." Fell nods at your left arm, at your shoulder. "The flesh knows it suffers even when the mind has forgotten. And so you wear the rune always."
-"He says the mark lies upon you because the flesh *knows* that it suffers, even when the mind does not."
-Grace says softly: "Torment." She studies the symbol, then turns away, as if looking at it is painful. "Fell says..." She takes a breath. "That the flesh knows it suffers, even when the mind forgets." She looks up and meets your gaze, and her eyes are a strange shade of azure, a shade that speaks of sadness and tears. "Fell says that the rune acts like a lodestone, drawing other tormented souls to you."
-This strip of flesh holds the symbol of Torment that you have always worn; it peeled away from your arm when you realized your true name.
-Pain, Agony, Suffering, Torment. When the Rune is invoked, even the earth shall resonate its anguish. Torment of the mind. Torment of the body. Torment of the soul. All will be made clear when the Circle is drawn."
All companions are broken people. They are all full of horrible pasts, insecurities, lies and despair for anything different. All are drawn to TNO because of that symbol. And while TNO can cast it off by learning his name, his companions cannot.
Planescape Torment is one of those few games, where if you really take the time to delve into it, you are left with a feeling of sadness that lingers. Never before or since have I seen such amazing writing in a game.
To me, the game seems to peak with Dragon's Eye and the epic battle with Yxunomei, after which Severed Hand just feels like an anti-climactic, tedious rehash of the Shadow Vale, with endless, repetitive battles against waves of undead.
Superb atmosphere, interesting backstory, nonlinear exploration, and an actual in-game reason for exploring and looting everything (finding machine pieces to fix the astrolabe).
And the "undead" aren't boring like those in the Vale of Shadows, at all:
- On the first levels, you have enemies tactically barricaded behind walls and obstacles, as well as surprise ambushes, which makes for new and interesting combat challenges.
- Below the lift you have Burning Skeletons that fireball your party (what other enemies do that?)
- Then you have a main level with only peaceful creatures, and even a merchant - even though you're in the middle of a dungeon. I think that's pretty cool.
- And each upper tower has a different type of shadowed elf (Priests, Mages, Fighters...), which may each require different strategies. Not to mention that the small maps with intricate room layouts, give you lots of opportunities to use the terrain to your advantage.
I don't think that's anything like the endless Shadows and Skeletons (with the occasional Zombie/Mummy) that you have to fight through in mostly open(-ish) areas in the Vale.Also, your party somehow progresses faster in IWD than in BG. This is the part which I actually like - I love character progression, new levels, spells, skills, hp, saves etc. BG series has more re-playability to it and of course you are more intertwined with your protagonist. But that aside, BG saga is a slower game and I am not able to play it trough in one sitting.
That said, even though the game is easier, I find it more gripping and progressing. Thus, I would vote for IWD as being the less boring one.
What I loved so much about that game was the symbol of torment and how it brought so much together.
"-"The symbol that lies upon your left shoulder is the mark of torment."
-"It is *torment.* It is that which draws all tormented souls to you." Fell nods at your left arm, at your shoulder. "The flesh knows it suffers even when the mind has forgotten. And so you wear the rune always."
-"He says the mark lies upon you because the flesh *knows* that it suffers, even when the mind does not."
-Grace says softly: "Torment." She studies the symbol, then turns away, as if looking at it is painful. "Fell says..." She takes a breath. "That the flesh knows it suffers, even when the mind forgets." She looks up and meets your gaze, and her eyes are a strange shade of azure, a shade that speaks of sadness and tears. "Fell says that the rune acts like a lodestone, drawing other tormented souls to you."
-This strip of flesh holds the symbol of Torment that you have always worn; it peeled away from your arm when you realized your true name.
-Pain, Agony, Suffering, Torment. When the Rune is invoked, even the earth shall resonate its anguish. Torment of the mind. Torment of the body. Torment of the soul. All will be made clear when the Circle is drawn."
All companions are broken people. They are all full of horrible pasts, insecurities, lies and despair for anything different. All are drawn to TNO because of that symbol. And while TNO can cast it off by learning his name, his companions cannot.
Planescape Torment is one of those few games, where if you really take the time to delve into it, you are left with a feeling of sadness that lingers. Never before or since have I seen such amazing writing in a game.
The entire final sequence of facing TNO's three incarnations onward is some of my favorite moments of gaming ever.
Yup. Was a great story device.
That was pretty awesome, yeah.
I personally loved IWD. It is so incredibly beautiful, and the combat is very challenging. The feel of the game is so much more 'urgent,' and the game is considerably more tactical (and brutal!). It really felt as though you were under threat in a harsh and cruel land, and I could almost feel the icy winds of the North through its soundtrack. I am all for immersion in my games.
I suspect that part of the reason for my fondness was that I approached the game from a role-playing perspective. Because you create your own characters, I invested in them, writing full back-stories and making them behave accordingly. It also allows for more flexibility in how you play; make the game easier by having an optimum mix of different classes, or more challenging by creating characters with clear deficits.
One of my best memories was creating a gnome cleric who was illiterate and dumb (couldn't even read scrolls) but had a wisdom of 18. I made her backstory that she'd been abandoned as a small child at a temple of Helm and raised by the church. Despite being absolutely clueless about everything (she basically swept and mopped the floors and did little else) she would occasionally blurt out random words of profound insight and prophesy, and astonishingly gained the ability to cast spells (kind of like a savant). The clergy felt obligated to make her an acolyte but she was kind of a liability due to her lack of intelligence (she almost burned down her temple by lighting candles among other things) so the head priest decided to send her on a 'religious right of passage' to the North (secretly he just wanted to get rid of her). I grew to love that character and she made me laugh all the time.
There are no party banters in IWD, which can be disconcerting if you played Baldurs Gate beforehand, but it allowed my imagination to fill in the gaps and actually added to the atmosphere of isolation for me. Plus, Druids and Bards rock (as they should), but were woefully underdeveloped in Baldurs Gate and its sequels.
Also IWD is good because it's easier to play casually.
Having said that, I do truly enjoy the banter between the various NPCs in the BG series, and I know I have only encountered a handful, but again, as @MagpieRandoms stated below: I was in control of why my party was adventuring; what their stories were; why they had banded together. I was the author of their respective stories. From a role-playing perspective, I personally enjoyed that much more than only being able to create one character, whose story was very cool, but had also been predetermined for me, and then adding whichever APCs I wanted to include in my party, which was mostly dictated by, 01) their stats, and 02) their alignment/relationship with the other characters.
NOTE: I am not stating that any other RPGer would choose their APCs (I really need to find out who first coined this, they deserve recognition) based solely on stats, but I did in conjunction with "02)".
I believe both franchises are AMAZING but I often feel IWD doesn't receive as much love (vocally or digitally) as BG and I want to make sure I fight for the opportunity to see another IWD (type) game in the future.
I have beaten IWD but have yet to make it past level 04 in BG and I played both games from their respective births. I simply love IWD and never want to see it go away.
-Iron
IWD is more about freedom than perhaps it is being given credit for.
-Iron
Also, Since 2.0, BG/BGII also allow you to choose a full party. It's not the intended way to play those games (you're intended to pick one PC, and fill it up with NPCs), but if playing with your own custom party is your own preference, then that's certainly an option.
((It was also possible prior to 2.0, but it required you to move save games around, or be stuck in solo multiplayer.))
APC stands for 'Additional Player Characters'.
With regards to playing a fully customized party in BG, I had no idea that was feasible in any fashion. Now that sounds really cool to me, (given it would nullify part of what makes BG so memorable, namely the APC interactions) but it would allow for a level of control and optimization I had not considered.
Thanks!