Playing as a Warlock?

xLegionx

Who would like to play as a mage-like character who can call upon devilrish-fire, summon denizens from the nine-hells or the abyss to serve and aid him, and transform himself into a giant demon to tear and rip apart his foes? Using invocations, you would have the ability to cast spells as often as you want but your spell list would extremely low probably up to around 2-8 spells to assist you.

Since the game is coming out in November there might be enough time to make the class. If not it should atleast come out as some cool dlc. So who would like to play as one?

HaHaCharade

What you're talking about sounds like an evil cleric. AD&D has been out for like four decades. I think there's enough classes personally... in fact I think there's too many. lol.

xLegionx

You can never have too many classes no matter what game you play. More classes means more choices and more fun!

MatteoTurini

xLegionx said:

Using invocations, you would have the ability to cast spells as often as you want but your spell list would extremely low probably up to around 2-8 spells to assist you.

Wouldn't this basically be a sorcerer?

Dee

I think that before a warlock is created, the existing mage classes and kits need to be improved.

That said, I'm sure that you could do something like this with a mod.

RomulanPaladin

Another option is creating (perhaps a mod) demonic altars or little sidequests that grant you innate abilities that can be used at will once you perform some sort of blasphemous act. Using the abilities causes you to suffer some sort of strain such as damage, curses, bad condition states, or temporary ability damage. In this way, you can add these abilities to any character without creating another class or disrupting balance.

Brude

I played Warcraft off and on for close to 5 years. I've had my fill of warlocks, thanks.

xLegionx

Lol if you look it up you can find everything you need to know about warlocks and their history. It's not just World of warcraft that has warlocks in it...

Edvin

xLegionx said:

Who would like to play as a mage-like character who can call upon devilrish-fire, summon denizens from the nine-hells or the abyss to serve and aid him, and transform himself into a giant demon to tear and rip apart his foes? Using invocations, you would have the ability to cast spells as often as you want but your spell list would extremely low probably up to around 2-8 spells to assist you.

Since the game is coming out in November there might be enough time to make the class. If not it should atleast come out as some cool dlc. So who would like to play as one?

1) Every mage/sorcerer on hight lvl can summon demons.
2) Every CHARNAME can transform himself into a giant demon ( Slayer ).
3) Sorcerers have much more spells then mages, but their spell list is short.

Sceptenar

You mention invocations. Is this supposed to be the D&D 3.5 Warlock?

elminster

@Sceptenar Sounds like it

cloakanddagger

Where's the option for: "Sounds too much like World of Warcraft, hell no!"

mlnevese

I'd rather see a sorcerer-like class that can cast divine spells instead of arcane.

Mortianna

mlnevese said:

I'd rather see a sorcerer-like class that can cast divine spells instead of arcane.

Interesting idea, although I'm not sure how it would work out in terms of game mechanics. Since the 3rd through 7th levels divine spells are granted to characters by their deities' servants or the deities themselves, they'd still have to pray for them every day. However, if this divine sorcerer-type class was considered an outsider (of some degree), I suppose one could get away with allowing them the innate ability to cast some or all of those 3rd level+ spells.

mlnevese

Maybe this sorcerer-like draws his divine spells from the forces of nature, with no formal training. Casting spells out of pure faith. The gods may even be informally involved, mainly the more wild ones who don't actually require formal worship.

Maybe the character has divine blood running, I doubt Bhaal is the only god who had mortal progeny

fighter_mage_thief

As was noted earlier, Mages and Clerics can summon demons. I suppose you want to be able to summon weaker demons at the lower tiers, as opposed to the Nabassu (Cacofiend), Glabrezu (Summon Fiend), and Pit Fiend (Gate) that can be summoned at higher levels. That being said, none of these things you actually have under your control in BG II either, unlike say in NWN, where with Protection from Evil, you control the Balor you summon. You can summon monsters, but it's definitely not the same. Also, it would be interesting to be able to summon a Balor or Marilith in ToB, but it does seem a little overpowered, considering how the Pit Fiend has 4 thaco, 5 attacks, -8 AC, uses fear, and launches a powerful fireball (usually hits for 30 to 40 on a save, 60 to 80 without), and in general can single handedly win most of the difficult fights in the game (they have 50 Magic Resistance, some elemental immunities, the Pit Fiend only be hit by weapons +3 or better, Glabrezu +2 or better). The Glabrezu is a bit weaker at 8 thaco, 5 attacks, -10 AC, and pw:stun (mind you, the Glabrezu can actually kill the Pit Fiend).

Dee

I'd like to go on record as saying that I like the thematic concept of a warlock who summons demons, but that I don't think there is space for such a class in the current version of the Infinity Engine, and I don't think that it would be worthwhile to create that room.

HexHammer

Maybe it should be more in the suble area, where it's possible to cast most spells with curses, and other minor things.

kamuizin

Warlock is already in existance as one of the 3.5 ed classes:

Warlock 3.5 class.

I don't like warlocks much but neither i have a reason to keep them from the game, any allegation of incompatibility of 3.5 ed classes withy AD&D will fall on the ground as sorceres and monks are 3° ed classes, too.

fighter_mage_thief

kamuizin said:

Warlock is already in existance as one of the 3.5 ed classes:

Warlock 3.5 class.

I don't like warlocks much but neither i have a reason to keep them from the game, any allegation of incompatibility of 3.5 ed classes withy AD&D will fall on the ground as sorceres and monks are 3° ed classes, too.

Thanks for this. I didn't realize the Warlock class developed fiendish traits and could summon demons.

By the way, I also looked up the Figher class under 3.5 on the same website, and really like some of the abilities of the class (Problem Solver, Foil Action, Lunging Attacks, etc.). Lots of nice little additions.

Dee

Actually, the class to which @kamuizin linked isn't the one in Complete Arcane; it's an adaptation for public use, specifically so that players don't have to worry about fighting the OGL restrictions.

All of the "Tome" series classes on that site are similarly adapted. The original Complete Arcane Warlock doesn't get demon-summoning abilities, but can use any of its limited list of abilities at will without preparing them beforehand.

kamuizin

Taking the fact that plataform D&D games MUST be faithful to D&D rules, i have to say that Neverwinter Nights 2 warlock class is proof enough that Warlocks are an official class, but you can maybe don't accept NWN2 as a proof so it's up to anyone to believe or not in my previous statement.

Warlock class in NWN2

Dee

Personally, I'm not against the idea of a warlock class on its merits; I just don't feel the need for it to be usable in the EE. Bring it up again for BG3, and you'll have more of my support.

Hoebagger

One of the best parts about the D&D warlock is their 24 hour invocations. However the best one undoubtedly is the one that grants flight. Most people duck out of warlock at that point, unless they're focusing on their Hellfire Blast.

For that matter the Hellfire Blast would be substantially overpowered in Baldur's Gate as it's a ranged touch attack dealing untyped damage. This would cut through all resistances and touch AC is rather low anyway. Plus in the event that you wanted a glaivelock you would have to worry about figuring out how to make the invocations alter your hellfire blast without simply being new spells. It's not something that lends itself well to 2E D&D at all.

kamuizin

Unblanaced or incompatible skills can be just ignored and not made in BG, as it's already made in many things.

I don't feel much love for this class and i don't care if done or not, but it's an valid request in an right context, as the game circles around a bhaalspawn, and who better to hold hell powers than a person that will have his own abyssal domanin in the future? (pocket plane, fragment of Bhaal's domains and a free demon source for a willing warlock)

I don't remember if it's an ascencion thing, but in the final fight in ToB you get the ability of control demons (and immunity to imprisonment), after absorb one of the essence conducts.

LadyRhian

Well, there was a "Witch" Kit in the Complete Wizard's Handbook book in 2e, which started with, I think, 1500xp worth of magic items, and the idea behind the kit is that you were trained in magic by various outsiders (not necessarily evil) to serve them. So everywhere you go, you are constantly pulled on to do various things for them. People can sense that a witch isn't like other magic users, and if they are uneducated and superstitious, they fear and hate the witch. Other outsiders are terrified of the witch, and she is constantly at risk from people wanting to kill her/burn her at the stake and receives significant penalties to interact with other people. And she can try to fight against the wants and wishes of the entities that trained her, but it's going to be a lifelong struggle that is fought every single day, and not easy to do. Male Witches are known as Warlocks. Witches/Warlocks don't get to summon demons or anything, but they do get some powers, like the spell Detect Magic (and since this was 2e, Read Magic) for free, as well as the ability to brew various drinks to calm and/or poison. Charm Person (as the level 1 Wizard spell), Curse people, make a flying ointment, and so on.

So you got some interesting powers, but everyone pretty much hated and/or feared you and you were constantly being subconsciously "urged" to do things by the powers that taught you, and you had to hide who you were from most common people. I have no idea how that could be somehow emulated in-game without a TON of re-coding. So, no, I am not a fan of the idea. And bringing up NWN 2 isn't an inducement, since that entire game was based on the 3e rules, not 2e.

I get it, you want to be kickass by summoning demons and whatnot. But mages can already do that at high level, and I don't really see the attraction otherwise.

kamuizin

Well i don't know which witch/warlock class you're refering to, @LadyRhian, but D&D 3ed class warlock is a demon controller class as stated before. I know you have a huge lore in D&D but there are many content about warlocks being demon summoners thought internet (and already used on D&D plataform games).

Follow the above links and you will be able to see what i mean by warlock. They don't simple summon demons, but they control them too, warlock magic is totally unlike other spellcaster magic as they use Eldritch Blast, an unique kind of magic that's better explained on the links above. Demons summoned by warlocks aren't loose on material plane as warlocks normally control and bend the demon's will to their wishes.

LadyRhian

@Kamulzin The Witch/Warlock kit in the 2e Complete Wizard's Handbook. And 1e had spells like that, too. Cacodemon being just one of them- but they took them out (along with mention of Demons and Devils, turning them into Tanar'ri and Baatezu) when anxious mothers and others began to be concerned that Dungeons and Dragons was teaching little Timmy how to summon demons and other horrible powers. Yeah, yeah, complete dreck, I know, but it was a crazy time.

I still don't want such a class in the game. To me, it would be a symbol of 3e overpowered bloat or WoW, neither of which I find compatible in Baldur's Gate, based primarily on 2e.

Dee

For the record (again), the 3e warlock is not a summoner or controller of demons. The 3e warlock is someone who invokes powers granted by demons through some form of pact. It's basically like a druid for arcane magic.

kamuizin

Well by play NWN2 and for research everything i could in warlock matter i'm pretty sure warlocks are summoner and controller of demons/devils, and they're too people that made pacts or deals with demons or devils.

But i'm not going to enforce my opinion to anyone, just want to state what i think of the class and from where i get my ideas.

Dee

I'm basing my "opinion" on what's in Complete Arcane. The class that was incorporated into NWN2 might have been altered, but the class in the tabletop game has nothing to do with controlling demons.

Not saying I dislike the concept; just trying to clarify the argument.