Tell me, do folks like yourself understand the difference between what an expansion would have vs. what a full-length game would have? You won't get the same scope of story or character development, and you shouldn't expect it. The story was NOT "bad writing" or "fan fiction". Go poo-poo elsewhere, please.
I am not trying to get into any arguments at all. I am suggesting that imagination is helpful. This is a 20 year old video game after all. I wasn't looking for War and Peace.
It is not like Beamdog has gone out of their way to prevent people from installing mods either. There are countless mods to install who new characters, banters, tons of content that Beamdog is not contractually allowed to do, but they don't block it. So everybody wins, right?
I guess my biggest problem is the lack of Imoen again and the Poison special ability rebalancing. I didn't mind limiting the poison on Blackguards, because they still rock, but Assassins are totally gimped. 15x skill points for poison use that is next to worthless at low levels and when you finally get a backstab bonus many of the villains are immune to it. Assassin used to be one of my favorite classes, challenging, but effective. Now, not so much.
Story wise, meh it's always been a problem with the npcs, especially in BG2 if I didn't recruit them in BG1. I have been yammering at Beamdog for years now to bring it has close to a true trilogy as possible , but the developers have explained that this isn't really possible because of licensing agreements.
SoD isn't perfect and has some of the same flaws as all the rest of the Baldur's Gate games have in maintaining immersive continuity throughout the entirety of the saga, but I have a pretty creative imagination and have no problems playing and enjoying it for what it is. One of the best fantasy roleplaying experiences I have ever had.
Is it perfect? No.
Is it good? Most definitely.
'Thoughtful criticism and analysis is always good to reflect upon, as every *Megilindir should always be striving to make improvements in their art.' ~The Bladesinger Codex
Tell me, do folks like yourself understand the difference between what an expansion would have vs. what a full-length game would have? You won't get the same scope of story or character development, and you shouldn't expect it. The story was NOT "bad writing" or "fan fiction". Go poo-poo elsewhere, please.
Except it has none of that because of all the botch jobs from ensuring consistency from game to game. Forget it.
Huh, we got both of those. The story in SoD was at least as well done as ToB or ToSC. Problem is, folks (including you, I'd guess) expected a story on par with BG1 or BG2. In other words, floks expected story and characters that were on par with the 60+ hour main game, when your expectations should have been to expect things based on a 15+ hour expansion. For what SoD is, we got a good story and good characters. So, hush.
SoD is written better than BG1. Also BG1 took me about 40 hours to complete, as did SoD.
@TrudeauIsSanta I'm probably in the minority, but I like BG1 the best. You are quickly free to explore the world, unlike in BG2 and SoD, which require you to complete a multi-level dungeon before being set free. You can even skip the Candlekeep quests and leave with Gorion right away. In fact, it seems that there is much more free roaming allowed in general, as compared to BG2.
I also like that you start with mundane weapons and armor, and it takes awhile (without metagaming) to build up your armory of magical equipment. Even getting a +2 weapon or armor is a big deal. You also face a larger number of mundane, stock fantasy monsters, such as goblins, skeletons, and gnolls, instead of all of the weird, higher level monsters you must encounter for game balance.
While the NPCs aren't as developed as the ones in BG2, there are far more to choose from (heck, it took the introduction of Dorn and Hexxat in order to even have a full evil party in BG2).
Once you are free to explore, the whole son of Bhaal storyline can take a back seat to plain, good ol' adventuring. I don't have it constantly thrust in my face that the PC is the son of an evil deity, so I can somewhat pretend that I'm just a normal adventurer (I actually don't like the son of Bhaal part of the story, as it can interfere with how I envision the characters I create).
Finally, the character creation music is the best.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
(I skipped a lot of posts that attacked Beamdogs writing team, apologies if my post seems a bit out of sync because of this)
I agree that SoD feels out of sync with B2. I've not played B2 in YEARS and I remember very little about it, at the same time a dear friend of mine is playing the series for the time (her name is Simone and she drew my userpic, she is super cool!) So I follow the game around the same pace as her so we can discuss what we experience. Two days ago we both started played B2 after B1 + Dragonspear, and I have to agree with her that I am kinda shocked at how badly B2 treats women at times. There are many sexist "comedic" moments and horribly misogynist characters played up for laughs. Everything from "child support" jokes to male characters actually "comically" threatening a party member to come with them to their bedchambers or they will hurt them.
I do not think this was meant to be sexist, I believe these kinds of jokes were written by, at the times, immature men who did not understand the real world implications these jokes had. Men that, because they have never been women, don't understand that a man threatening to kill a woman unless she comes with him is something that can happen, and *that* happens to women and girls everyday. Men that don't understand that the tired "child support" jokes comes from an era a few generations back, where laws against sexual assault was defended by "take it as a compliment" and men viewed a responsibility to take care of the children they abounded as an attack on their masculinity rather than.. just taking care of an innocent child that did choose to be born or who their parents are. (two mentalities we still see today, though morphed and changed with the times)
But intent does not negate results. Some of the most innocent of intents have harmed some of the greatest numbers of people. The issue with sexism through media is not that the media itself harms women, (unless you're like, making some of those living books from Harry Potter) but that it validates the toxic and dangerous believes of actual real life people. B2 is a very old game, and it shows. It's a product of it's time when you didn't actually have to be funny you just had to say, "Women, ey?" The romances have issues too, (I found this great old blog post (warning, B2 romance spoilers!) making really good points.)
I've played the game before, but for Simone this created a pretty shocking contrast. She came to B2 from playing Dragonspear, a game that treated her with respect and that had their characters fleshed out to suddenly be greeted by a moaning madonna/whore complex drow and a male romance option who treats her like crap while she is supposed to just "take it" or the romance fails. And it is does feel very strange when there are (understandably) no reference to the happenings with the crusade. But it is still feels strange... it was made out to be a big deal and at the end of SoD everything that had happened felt like a big deal and yet no one mentions it.
Bah.. anyways. I am looking forward to a possible Baldur's Gate 3 in the future. I've been part of D&D for a long time and followed the inclusive effort of Forgotten Realms. I am glad to see SoD showcasing these inclusive efforts and I am imagining that B3 will be even better and more awesome. I am especially looking forward to it (if it does happen) because it will be the first time this awesome dev team is allowed to make something wholly theirs with their new efforts. They can set up whatever they want!
it's like how when chiris avallone was on a podcast called watch out for fire balls when they were playing fallout 2. he is ashamed of his writing for that game compared to his later works. baldurs gate's writing was always geared more towards men and it really shows. female players only get one romance option [ they would have had two more but they were cut] and the writing is hit or miss the whole way. it's rose tinted glasses and people feeling like they need to defend what they love. baldurs gate has problems and some of that was fixed with mods [ most npc mods are for female romances for example]. yes baldurs gate is much better then some modern rpgs but that does not excuse the issues it does have.
I just don't feel they should change any writing in the originals for the sake of the series' new baby step-brother. (or sister? maybe both, considering the controversy) Did the originals have issues? Yes. Should they modify a long-beloved classic to make their new addition fit in better? No.
And @Grum , yes we should absolutely trust them to make a new series more than create a new expansion to Baldur's Gate. I've written what is little more than Baldur's Gate fan fiction (though I'd be irritated were someone else to refer to them as such) with my role-played play-throughs here on the forums. It is many times harder to write "in character" with someone else's characters than with your own. In fact, I would heavily argue that not only would people be incredibly excited to see any game set in the infinity engine/faerun, but that controversial subjects such as Mizhena and the content of comments from Minsc would be FAR less criticized were they a part of a series not connected to Baldur's Gate or its characters.
In short, while I'm looking forward with both dread and anticipation to getting my hands on SoD, I also feel like an expansion may not have been the best route, nor should the other games be modified to better suit this expansion.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
Xan could still be there. And Viconia.
Kivan and Corran too (I think he can survive in BG2).
Viconia has that ending though, in BG2. She gets assassinated by drow or something in the epilogue?
Minsc is back in a comic. I think that one is canon. He had been turned into a statue. Fun comic, by the way. Boo actually rips the eye our of a dragon in it.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
Xan could still be there. And Viconia.
Kivan and Corran too (I think he can survive in BG2).
Viconia has that ending though, in BG2. She gets assassinated by drow or something in the epilogue?
Minsc is back in a comic. I think that one is canon. He had been turned into a statue. Fun comic, by the way. Boo actually rips the eye our of a dragon in it.
Doh! Yep, I forgot about Viconia's end pic. I was just looking at the NPC list for elves. I don't think half-elves would make it that long and be viable.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
5e content for the Realms occurs in the 1480's DR, which is only a little over a hundred years after BG.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
5e content for the Realms occurs in the 1480's DR, which is only a little over a hundred years after BG.
Thought it was longer. I stand corrected. I guess some of the non-humans might still be alive then.
Imoen, Keldorn, Nalia, Anomen, Valygar + + + would be dead though. And I guess those who have their deaths written in their ToB epilogue would be problematic to include.
Most likely the game would need a new protagonist anyway. If the Bhaalspawn becomes a god, he is out of the picture. If he is human he has died from old age.
ToB really ends the story very well for that character in any case. So a brand new character is the best option. Can't start off at level 40 in a new game anyway. Importing will be impossible from 2ed to 5ed too, come to think of it.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
Xan could still be there. And Viconia.
Kivan and Corran too (I think he can survive in BG2).
Viconia has that ending though, in BG2. She gets assassinated by drow or something in the epilogue?
Minsc is back in a comic. I think that one is canon. He had been turned into a statue. Fun comic, by the way. Boo actually rips the eye our of a dragon in it.
Doh! Yep, I forgot about Viconia's end pic. I was just looking at the NPC list for elves. I don't think half-elves would make it that long and be viable.
It begins when you start up a relatively new indie company with no credentials and go to great lengths to acquire the rights to a classic D&D videogame in some sort of pathetic and desperate attempt to recapture the "glory days."
Then you hire ex-members from Stephenie Meyer's Twilight fan club to write an expansion to said game 15 years after the fact. And voilà! You produce a beautiful, beautiful butterfly of absolute horribleness.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
So you don't trust beamdog to make an expansion but you trust them to make a whole new series?
There's more creative freedom in writing a story of it's own with new characters, locations etc. Instead of just adding a chapter into existing story everyone loves.
Being a full game, it also requires a larger budget and more time. Remember that Beamdog has only recently grown from tiny to small, so an expansion feels like a logical step between the initial bg:ee content and a standalone title.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Yeah same here. The new editions just tries to be WoW. And given the changes in the magic system being tied to a huge event in the lore....BG3 would have to take place 2-300 years (or more) after BG2. Which means most of the npcs from Bg2 will be dead from old age.
5e content for the Realms occurs in the 1480's DR, which is only a little over a hundred years after BG.
Thought it was longer. I stand corrected. I guess some of the non-humans might still be alive then.
Imoen, Keldorn, Nalia, Anomen, Valygar + + + would be dead though. And I guess those who have their deaths written in their ToB epilogue would be problematic to include.
Most likely the game would need a new protagonist anyway. If the Bhaalspawn becomes a god, he is out of the picture. If he is human he has died from old age.
ToB really ends the story very well for that character in any case. So a brand new character is the best option. Can't start off at level 40 in a new game anyway. Importing will be impossible from 2ed to 5ed too, come to think of it.
I think I have read that one and it is a good idea. Not sure I would want to play as a god, though. Besides gods are forbidden to directly influence anything in the Realms, so in the long run the game would feel....I dunno. Like sim or something. Very passive.
You'd play it in the planes more than the realms as I'd see it. Although you could do some fun things like having a mortal chosen act on your behalf in the realms (like Elminster!)
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It is not like Beamdog has gone out of their way to prevent people from installing mods either. There are countless mods to install who new characters, banters, tons of content that Beamdog is not contractually allowed to do, but they don't block it. So everybody wins, right?
Story wise, meh it's always been a problem with the npcs, especially in BG2 if I didn't recruit them in BG1. I have been yammering at Beamdog for years now to bring it has close to a true trilogy as possible , but the developers have explained that this isn't really possible because of licensing agreements.
SoD isn't perfect and has some of the same flaws as all the rest of the Baldur's Gate games have in maintaining immersive continuity throughout the entirety of the saga, but I have a pretty creative imagination and have no problems playing and enjoying it for what it is. One of the best fantasy roleplaying experiences I have ever had.
Is it perfect? No.
Is it good? Most definitely.
~The Bladesinger Codex
I also like that you start with mundane weapons and armor, and it takes awhile (without metagaming) to build up your armory of magical equipment. Even getting a +2 weapon or armor is a big deal. You also face a larger number of mundane, stock fantasy monsters, such as goblins, skeletons, and gnolls, instead of all of the weird, higher level monsters you must encounter for game balance.
While the NPCs aren't as developed as the ones in BG2, there are far more to choose from (heck, it took the introduction of Dorn and Hexxat in order to even have a full evil party in BG2).
Once you are free to explore, the whole son of Bhaal storyline can take a back seat to plain, good ol' adventuring. I don't have it constantly thrust in my face that the PC is the son of an evil deity, so I can somewhat pretend that I'm just a normal adventurer (I actually don't like the son of Bhaal part of the story, as it can interfere with how I envision the characters I create).
Finally, the character creation music is the best.
Hoping the 5th edition rules will be kept far, far away from a possible BG3, though.
What Beamdog could've done is to create entirely new story set in Faerun with Infinity Engine and go with it. People still would've bought it. Hell, it could've been more succesful than "Siege of Dragonspear" is now. We have "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale"... a new series with same engine would be more than welcome. The Forgotten Realms as a world is massive and unexplored. I still would love to venture forth with a party of new characters in Thay, Pirate Isles, Cormyr, Evereska or Silver Marches.
I agree that SoD feels out of sync with B2. I've not played B2 in YEARS and I remember very little about it, at the same time a dear friend of mine is playing the series for the time (her name is Simone and she drew my userpic, she is super cool!) So I follow the game around the same pace as her so we can discuss what we experience. Two days ago we both started played B2 after B1 + Dragonspear, and I have to agree with her that I am kinda shocked at how badly B2 treats women at times. There are many sexist "comedic" moments and horribly misogynist characters played up for laughs. Everything from "child support" jokes to male characters actually "comically" threatening a party member to come with them to their bedchambers or they will hurt them.
I do not think this was meant to be sexist, I believe these kinds of jokes were written by, at the times, immature men who did not understand the real world implications these jokes had. Men that, because they have never been women, don't understand that a man threatening to kill a woman unless she comes with him is something that can happen, and *that* happens to women and girls everyday. Men that don't understand that the tired "child support" jokes comes from an era a few generations back, where laws against sexual assault was defended by "take it as a compliment" and men viewed a responsibility to take care of the children they abounded as an attack on their masculinity rather than.. just taking care of an innocent child that did choose to be born or who their parents are. (two mentalities we still see today, though morphed and changed with the times)
But intent does not negate results. Some of the most innocent of intents have harmed some of the greatest numbers of people. The issue with sexism through media is not that the media itself harms women, (unless you're like, making some of those living books from Harry Potter) but that it validates the toxic and dangerous believes of actual real life people. B2 is a very old game, and it shows. It's a product of it's time when you didn't actually have to be funny you just had to say, "Women, ey?" The romances have issues too, (I found this great old blog post (warning, B2 romance spoilers!) making really good points.)
I've played the game before, but for Simone this created a pretty shocking contrast. She came to B2 from playing Dragonspear, a game that treated her with respect and that had their characters fleshed out to suddenly be greeted by a moaning madonna/whore complex drow and a male romance option who treats her like crap while she is supposed to just "take it" or the romance fails. And it is does feel very strange when there are (understandably) no reference to the happenings with the crusade. But it is still feels strange... it was made out to be a big deal and at the end of SoD everything that had happened felt like a big deal and yet no one mentions it.
Bah.. anyways. I am looking forward to a possible Baldur's Gate 3 in the future. I've been part of D&D for a long time and followed the inclusive effort of Forgotten Realms. I am glad to see SoD showcasing these inclusive efforts and I am imagining that B3 will be even better and more awesome. I am especially looking forward to it (if it does happen) because it will be the first time this awesome dev team is allowed to make something wholly theirs with their new efforts. They can set up whatever they want!
And @Grum , yes we should absolutely trust them to make a new series more than create a new expansion to Baldur's Gate. I've written what is little more than Baldur's Gate fan fiction (though I'd be irritated were someone else to refer to them as such) with my role-played play-throughs here on the forums. It is many times harder to write "in character" with someone else's characters than with your own. In fact, I would heavily argue that not only would people be incredibly excited to see any game set in the infinity engine/faerun, but that controversial subjects such as Mizhena and the content of comments from Minsc would be FAR less criticized were they a part of a series not connected to Baldur's Gate or its characters.
In short, while I'm looking forward with both dread and anticipation to getting my hands on SoD, I also feel like an expansion may not have been the best route, nor should the other games be modified to better suit this expansion.
@Rawgrim Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure future d&d games from Beamdog are going to have to be 5th edition due to their licensing with WoTC (they might even have to take place in the current realms i.e. post Spellplague). I'll miss 2.0 - 3.5 as much as the next guy, though.
Viconia has that ending though, in BG2. She gets assassinated by drow or something in the epilogue?
Minsc is back in a comic. I think that one is canon. He had been turned into a statue. Fun comic, by the way. Boo actually rips the eye our of a dragon in it.
Imoen, Keldorn, Nalia, Anomen, Valygar + + + would be dead though. And I guess those who have their deaths written in their ToB epilogue would be problematic to include.
Most likely the game would need a new protagonist anyway. If the Bhaalspawn becomes a god, he is out of the picture. If he is human he has died from old age.
ToB really ends the story very well for that character in any case. So a brand new character is the best option. Can't start off at level 40 in a new game anyway. Importing will be impossible from 2ed to 5ed too, come to think of it.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/110494-george-ziets-describes-how-hed-approach-baldurs-gate-iii.html
(Ziets was the creative lead for Mask of the Betrayer)