Buying Magical Items from Vendors
HaHaCharade
Member Posts: 1,644
One thing that always got me about these games (IWD more than BG) is buying these unbelievable magic items from vendors. Now, Thunderhammer Smithy I can get - the guy's a legend right? Probably an ex-adventurer, and he doesn't sell *THAT* much, but in IWD, the fact that Conlan (the Blacksmith from Kuldahar) sells the ridiculous stuff he does... +3 weapons here, +1 Con Axe there, it just always bothered me. When we played pen and paper AD&D, the only way we buy magical items are from like powerful mages and the like. I wish they took like half the stuff in these shop inventories and placed them in the game instead (in dungeons, etc). I'd rather find them adventuring then have to grind endlessly to buy them. Buying everything you want in IWD is impossible by the way... unless you do like 2 play throughs. Just seems lazy to me.
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This removes most magical items from shops and the world and places them elsewhere in the game. So the stuff sold at the Thunderhammer Smithy might drop from a mini boss like Zargal, Greywolf, or one of the bounty hunters that comes after you.
On the whole, it's great and can make the game more interesting. You no longer get immediate boons like the Ring of Wizardry and you can't depend on having the Gauntlets of Dexterity early in the game.
As Tanthalas notes, though, it makes gold mostly meaningless because there's little to no gear to buy.
As @Tanthalus said, gold would lose its value if all the powerful magic items were in the hands of to-be-killed enemies. Although, I have to admit this would save the effort of picking up every coin dropped by gibberlings (and why do they carry gold in the first place?). @Permidion_Stark makes a good point about needing gold to keep up with the demands of living the adventurer's life. However, I can't help but wonder if focusing that much on adventuring economics would cause a micromanaging nightmare that detracts more than it adds to the story and playability of the game.
There's a nice point early in the game when you see a magic item you want and can't afford it, then come back a while later and feel a sense of accomplishment in finally buying it. Then, a few levels later, you'll be leaving equally valuable items on the ground because you can't be bothered carrying them around and you don't need the gold from selling them anyway. (What's this, only +1? Pfft!)
If magic items get taken out of stores, you'd need a new purpose for gold in the game, or less gold available.
It bothers me a little bit that you can rent the Royal room at any inn for the same price as a short sword. Sometimes I rent that room just because I really don't care about the gold at that point. If inns were more expensive, not only would you have to consider it carefully before resting there, but you'd feel a noticeable difference in returns between Peasant and Royal.
QUIT TRYIN'NA CHANGE MY 15 YEAR OLD GAME!
Anyway, more reasons why BG1 is better ... wait shhh I didn't say that. *Flees*
Working from that I had a wizard that was building his own network of spies and informants just by throwing a few gold pieces around hehehe.
But anyway, assuming that the average commoner only gets two GP a year, the prices of some things make a lot more sense. The "Royal" Suite makes more sense at 8gp. A really good bottle of wine could be worth a couple GP and be the sort of thing you'd save for a really special occasion, maybe for years.
If adventuring wasn't ridiculously profitable, people wouldn't do it. Even Do-Gooders would end up collecting signatures on petitions instead of going into dungeons. It's not unusual for an adventurer to become nobility on not only the strength of his sword arm but on the wealth he has accumulated.
Everything fits together a lot better if you work from that premise and then jiggle the numbers a bit for game balance.
"Excuse me, I'm collecting signatures to get the Iron Throne to clear the undead monsters living in the old Ulcaster school, would you like to sign?"
"No."
"Oh. Okay then. Um. Oh! How about this one, to help Yoshimo find redemption in the afterlife after he was cursed to betray his friends? Surely you can find it in your heart to--"
"No."
"No? Really? It's...it's for a good cause..."
At the start of any IE game, your poor and you see these items and think, 'ooh ahh nice, I wan't that'. At the end of the game, I have everything I want and have more gold than what to do with.
The gear random adventurers will have is even more interesting. For an adventurer, a roll is made for multiple pieces of gear (i.e. for a fighter, one for armor, another for shield, sword, misc weapon, and a fifth for a potion, i.e. five separate rolls all at 5% chance per character level--and random adventurers range from LVs 1-20). Now think of Ribald. It is well known that he was an adventurer in his youth, and as a fighter/mage, he's bound to have all sorts of magical items, and there's nothing crazy about it. He even has armed guards to protect his shop, as well as himself, and he's quite formidable himself (while he isn't to a high level group of adventurers, bear in mind that in the d&d context, most people don't reach very high levels, so he is the equivalent to in real life some retired soldier/marine combat instructor who has a 5th degree blackbelt and is also packing pistols behind the front desk, although of course his whole shop is filled with weapons--and that's in addition to having a guard there). What destroys the game imo is the fact that he's not the only merchant there. Another one or two with some scrolls or minor magic items might make sense, as they are attracted to his place of doing business, but some of them are special NPCs, like the one with the Planescape/IWD items, so these are pretty much NPCs that would normally never have these items, and which shouldn't even be in the game (it's mostly for flavour).
When I originally bought BGII, the PS/IWD items weren't the game. There was no vhailor helm or robe of vecna for me, and I prefer it that way. When I saw them, I thought they were so cheap that I simply refuse to use them.
I think the best solution is for the items to be more spread out, and a lot of them are if you think about it, seeing as there are merchants all over the place, and sometimes only with one or two really good items. This also doesn't seem to be absurd, as it's pretty common in real life for storekeeps to have some major treasure locked away somewhere if they have been in business for a while (old collector's items for example, but in the d&d world, it would be a powerful magical item). Just think about it. There are lots of antique stores and second hand shops in most major cities, and most of these places contain some pretty rare/valuable things, so it's not too far fetched, although having tons and tons of these things is of course another matter.
I'm just saying this because I don't think a belt of giant strength being there is too far fetched. I don't even think his special stash is far fetched. What does seem far fetched is someone else in the store having a helmet of simulacrum, Vecna's robe (LOL), and other OP items. A lot of the items described are literally from the collector's edition vendor that isn't normally even in the game.
Edit: to put what I was saying in perspective.
For Elves, a band of 160 will have the following additional members:
6 Lv 2-3 Fighters
4 Lv 1-2 Mages
2 Lv 4 Fighters
1 Lv 8 Mage
1 Lv 4/4/4 Fighter/Mage/Thief
2 Lv 6/6/6 Fighter/Mage/Thieves
2 Lv 3/3/3 Fighter/Mage/Thieves
2 Lv 4/5 Fighter/Mages
If it's an elf encampment of 160, there are the further additions to what was already stated:
4 Lv 4 Fighters
4 Lv 4 Clerics
4 Lv 2/2/2 Fighter/Mage/Thieves
1 Lv 4/7 Fighter/Mage
1 Lv 5 Fighter
1 Lv 6 Fighter
1 Lv 7 Cleric
That's A LOT of magic items. I counted, I believe it's anywhere from 0 to 125 magical items.
For an adventurer band, you have between 2-8 members, and:
Fighters roll for 5 items
Mages roll for 4 items
Clerics roll for 6 items
Thieves roll for 6 items
They also all have minor treasure in the form of gems and/or gold
This means a single band of 6 adventurers could easily have 10+ magic items, and the number literally ranges from 0 magic items to 48 magic items in an adventurer group of 8.
But anyway, according to canon it would be preposterous to see merchants openly selling powerful magical items in Athkatla (or anywhere else, but especially there.)
The game play just gets ridiculously high in SoA and ToB. I'm not saying it isn't fun. It is! But there's a point at which magic items lose what makes them special to begin with if you're swimming in them.
To reply to @HaHaCharade: yes, I found it confusing sometimes that you have such powerful items in a small town like Targos, but you have to consider they were under siege and the game explains they've been asking allies for troops and support (which includes of course, magical items). Plus, you can always think that part of the merchants that sold the stuff came to Targos because of the war: war can bring big wealth to the ones that can exploit it. On the other hand, Thunderhammer in Beregost tells you plain and clear: buznez 'az been pretty poor, wit' th' iron shortage, ya know....
It is obvious if a vendor is selling magic equipment, it is because some guy like the CHARNAME has sold his magic stuff beforehand. The vendor now has to sell it on (as the good middle man he is) at a profit.
Why do people see this as wrong? Supermarkets buy milk from farmers all the time and sell it for a profit? Now if a famers sold magic milk. Supermarkets would still buy it and sell it on.
WHATS THE PROBLEM?
"Has that magic milk the farmer sold been tested for quality and undergone rigourus hygene tests?"
*THUNK*
Whiner - Dead
3xp
"Only skim."
"Pass."