Why all the controversy? or, Great job on the Hypocrisy!
TyrReborn
Member Posts: 11
Seriously.
First some background; I am a Catholic, born and raised in the Deep South. I don't support gay marriage, I don't believe in transgenderism, and I refuse to try tofu.
But here's the thing; this is a fantasy game. I'm playing as the direct descendant of an evil god of murder. I slaughter thousands indiscriminately, and probably a third of those aren't even evil, just people doing their job (*cough ToB slaughter of an army regiment*).
Despite my not supporting gay marriage, I have worked with several gay people, and you know what? They're people. I suspect, if I worked with a transgender person, they would be that too; just people. But you know who isn't "just people"? A mass murderer, who, surprise! You're playing a game as.
So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is, these raging idiots really piss me off; it is hypocrisy of the highest order to take offense at something so small, when the core of the game is something infinitely more offensive.
Stop being bitches; a video game about dragons and magic is the wrong place for your whiny anti-pc idiocy. If you don't like the game, fine, but don't like it because it was rather linear, or some of the characters felt off, or you don't like that Jaheira doesn't have a voice.
But don't not like it because of something minor that offends your moral compass, when the heart of the game is so much worse.
First some background; I am a Catholic, born and raised in the Deep South. I don't support gay marriage, I don't believe in transgenderism, and I refuse to try tofu.
But here's the thing; this is a fantasy game. I'm playing as the direct descendant of an evil god of murder. I slaughter thousands indiscriminately, and probably a third of those aren't even evil, just people doing their job (*cough ToB slaughter of an army regiment*).
Despite my not supporting gay marriage, I have worked with several gay people, and you know what? They're people. I suspect, if I worked with a transgender person, they would be that too; just people. But you know who isn't "just people"? A mass murderer, who, surprise! You're playing a game as.
So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is, these raging idiots really piss me off; it is hypocrisy of the highest order to take offense at something so small, when the core of the game is something infinitely more offensive.
Stop being bitches; a video game about dragons and magic is the wrong place for your whiny anti-pc idiocy. If you don't like the game, fine, but don't like it because it was rather linear, or some of the characters felt off, or you don't like that Jaheira doesn't have a voice.
But don't not like it because of something minor that offends your moral compass, when the heart of the game is so much worse.
16
Comments
If you ask my opinion, gaming immersion is not typically very fragile for an actual gaming fan. I LOVE Baldur's Gate series with a total love that is ever actual, certainly nostalgic - and formative, because BG series made me love RPG gaming.
Be it Mizhena, or "out of char" Minsc - as a fan, I could take both, and more, even if I hated writing. But I did not. I am a fan, meanwhile.
I suggest you direct indignation to "I throw my toys out of my pram on least excuse" crowd.
And this is not gaming fans. Thirty plus hours of gameplay, you know? I'd find it more than hypocritical not to enjoy those 30+ hours, minus 30 seconds, because...
... ... ....
Indeed? Why not?
We really don't need more threads on this, and we really, REALLY don't need any from people who can't be bothered to read up on the subject at hand in the first place.
+1
What we had hear was a bunch of neo-fascist bully-boys, emboldened by the Trump campaign, looking to throw their weight around, and SoD (and a female writer) providing a continent target.
1. It's the Baldur's Gate franchise. Look at DOOM open beta right now.
2. Legitimate issues with the game. Bugs, writing etc.
3. A transgender character in a fantasy setting, where you can change your gender on demand. the cursed belt, wild magic, edwin. So the character solely exists as a token.
So in their eyes beamdog messed up the writing, released a bugged game, and pandered to sjws, culminating in a massive insult to the baldur's gate series.
If mizhana was in the original release of baldur's gate or shadows of amn, nobody would have given a damn, as the lgbt movement was miniscule, invisible at that time. it's the context that gave birth to this character, and the resulting shitstorm.
And if there was magical way to switch gender in reality, I think it would still be no small deal for the persons who decide to use it. After all, the difficulty is not only in biologically being closer to your preferred gender, but also that your own view of yourself clashed with that of other people, often including your own family.
I lived through the release of Ultima 9 and Gothic 3. This makes me very aware of what being disappointed with a sequel is like. But it never make me rant like some of the people visiting these forums. Not referring to anyone in this thread right now.
The belt has to be worn all the time, forever. You can't take it off. Not only would that be a constant reminder of your incomplete transformation, it'd be annoying in all sorts of normal, everyday ways, like donning or removing pants.
Wild magic is wild. You probably don't have the ability to harness it, much less control it. Even if you do, it's still random. You're just as likely to crush yourself with a meteoric cow as to change yourself into the opposite sex.
Edwin transformed himself into a woman with an artifact, a powerful scroll from the most ancient empire of human wizard autocrats in the history of the Forgotten Realms. There's nothing on-demand about any of that.
The alternatives aren't much better. Making transmutation magic and other temporary effects permanent requires Permanency, a high-level spell that costs lots of money in components, depending on what you're making permanent.
I just wanted to name some mechanics in the BG series itself that alter the gender, in the forgotten realms setting a lot more ways to change your gender exist. i'm not that familiar with that topic however.
Gender and sexuality were always a non-consideration in the Forgotten Realms setting. There's no reason for people to get all pissed off about it, because less than 500 words of dialog (out of 500,000 words of dialog total for the expansion) had a mention of it.
and the point is that being a transgender person is much more and I mean MUCH more complex and serious (just look at the statistic and you will see how extremely serious it is) than to be presented in such a trivial and shortened way like Beamdog did. Bioware at least put some effort into this.
stop your stupid fanboyism, you can't save the world by clicking some childish pseudo dialog on your hipsters ipads.
I don't disagree her dialogue needs a bit more work but I believe if the character was just a male it wouldn't even be a big thing like it is now. Just some people complaining like normal.
And I didn't care. Also, good point, this is a Fantasy games. There are DRAGONS, GODS, MAGES, SPELLS... why not people who feel like being the opposite sex?
I am speaking, of course, of Yoshimo. He is the token Asian (BG1 had no Asians and BG2 only had one) who randomly spouts Japanese phrases, "Sou desu ne?", caters to the white majority, "Very well. Hiya!", "Kiya! Heh, the tourists love that stuff," and, in a time when westerners were worried about underpaid Chinese workers taking their jobs and Japanese businesses were accused of participating in terrible business practices, his class is a thief. He also joins your party with the express purpose of betraying you, playing up the cunning and untrustworthy stereotype dogging Asians for decades, if not centuries. And, to add insult to injury, he isn't even portrayed by an Asian, but rather by the guy who played the Brain in Pinky in the Brain.
/not entirely serious
EDIT:
Amusingly, many of the arguments against Siege of Dragonspear could also be used against Shadows of Amn, Throne of Bhaal, or both.
They just put in a [insert minority group here] for PC reasons or to make an inclusion statement:
There were no Asian or African joinable characters in the first BG; come BG2, Yoshimo and Valygar could be argued to have token representation (as I pointed out earlier, neither of these characters is actually voiced by a member of the race they are portrayed as). This isn't to say that they were included for this reason, but the argument can be made that they were.
The developer's response to consumer posts was terrible and immature:
When BG2 was announced, a forum poster named Lanfear vocally argued for inclusion of Coran, an NPC in the first game, as an NPC in the second. The developers subsequently created an evil werewolf (get it, a female wolf is called a *****) named Lanfear who once slept with Coran. Coran reacts with disgust to the realization that she is a shapeshifter, and she attacks him. In the following fight, Lanfear can easily kill Coran, while the players are required to kill Lanfear.
The developers don't respect the previous characters and shoehorn in 'development' that doesn't belong.
In BG1, Imoen was a last minute inclusion as a good alignment thief so that good CHARNAME's didn't have to let Montaron and Xzar join if they didn't want evil characters. She has few interactions, and can die and be rezz'd without any unusual affect. Come BG2, she is now a Bhaalspawn, who, according to lore, will lose their special snowflakeness if they are killed, as seen in Sarevok. (ToB even includes references to her being killed, meaning that her extra specialness as a killable Bhaalspawn is canon for the games).
Viconia, another character, isn't as intolerant in the first game as the second. She respects Jaheira and Kivan, for example, while in the second game she tears into a large portion of the cast, including Jaheira, whom she mocks as a half-breed, something that she ignored in the first game.
Jaheira, for that matter, could be summed up in BG1 as a nature-loving, industry hating, domineering wife. Also, If Khalid dies, for example, she nags him, yelling at him for dying. Compare that with the character expansion she receives in BG2 and ToB, including the heart-breaking reaction to finding Khalid's body. Also, Jaheira and Khalid were supposed to become CHARNAME's surrogate parents, which makes the fact that she is romanceable a few months/a year later in BG2 eye-raising.
Quayle, who you find in BG1, apparently has been raising Aerie for quite some time come BG2. Either he and Aeire decided that him wandering around for a few months/a year without visiting her was an example of stellar parenting or the timeskip between games was much longer than we were led to believe.
The storyline/time table doesn't mesh with the larger universe for 'x reason'.
Putting aside the fact that, from as early as BG1, the timetable doesn't make sense (CHARNAME being considered an adult at 18 is fine for a half-orc or human, but problematic for elves/half-elves), Gorion indicates in a letter in BG1 that CHARNAME's mother was a victim of Bhaal, and implies that CHARMOM and Gorion were intimate. Come ToB, apparently she was a priestess of Bhaal who bore CHARNAME specifically so he could be sacrificed.
The game is too linear, robbing players of agency.
BG1 was very open. You could wander from map to map and discover new areas, even before the storyline made them significant. Come BG2, the game is much less open. Many areas can only be visited after you find the quest for them. Come ToB, there is even less agency, with a lack of ability to even visit previously visited areas. Even within the storyline, people complained about railroading, such as the fact that you had no choice but to work with the obviously evil Melissan, while others decried the fact that you weren't able to convince LG Balthasar to work with you even if you were a lawful good paladin.
The writing is a step-down
This is a bit subjective. There were parts of SoD's that I really liked, parts that were meh, and parts that I rolled my eyes at. But the same was true of the previous releases. Much cyber-ink, for example, has been spent decrying the Viconia romance epilogue, while others complained that Melissan was uncompelling as a villain compared to Sarevok or Irenicus.
BUGS!!!
This one isn't as comparable to previous renditions, as there are multiple game-breaking bugs. Keep in mind, though, that BG1 and BG2 were NOT bug-free, with several significant bugs in their initial releases, and with bugs that persisted even ten years after they stopped creating patches and mods took over.
Now, don't take this as evidence that I hate BG1 or BG2, as I was and am a huge fan. Also don't take it as me defending everything that Beamdog has done. I just don't think that BG2 should be held as a perfect game, as it wasn't, and I also don't think that Beamdog ruined the series as some people claim.