This may not be on topic but I thought it was funny and thus I share. When I first heard the term "SJW"(not long ago) I misread it as JWs... I was really confused as to what the Jehovahs Witnesses had done... IN OUR VIDEO GAMES!
I think that to really understand the controversy, you have to first understand that there are people like this guy in the world. Then it all starts to kind of make sense. (Contains strong language.)
@joluv - I can't understand I listened to that rant for almost 8 minutes... Always getting the feeling from people who do this that this is not about anything they are ranting anymore, it's about them. Uff. If you excuse me, I gotta go and do something with my life. Build a house. Plant a tree. Suck some brains. Find a girl or something...
I think that to really understand the controversy, you have to first understand that there are people like this guy in the world. Then it all starts to kind of make sense. (Contains strong language.)
I suppose it's a matter of different sensibilities for different people. Personally, I'd say it goes far deeper than one cleric that offers healing and donations with the now infamous dialogue, but I'll finish the playing the expansion before I comment on the majority of it.
As an aside it should be noted that Imoen can only multi class from pure thief to mage in the enhanced edition and never reach level 9 due to the experience cap in that version of the game.
Actually your wrong Imoen cant multi class at all since she's a human. She's been able to DUAL class in classic Bg, Tutu, yrilogy and EE but you're right she couldn't reach that level with the bg1 cap.
The controversy was never about inclusion of trans characters. Or gay characters, or women, or whatever. It had to do with certain... unwise statements made by the devs and even worse decisions as to how they got the press involved with the whole thing. It was an issue of cringy writing and tokenism of certain groups to gain credibility among progressive circles instead of taking the time to craft a decent character, and the backlash was toward said devs rather than the game per se. This is corroborated by statements made by trans individuals here and on Steam.
No one cares if you want LGBT representation in your games. Bioware does it all the time and doesn't catch hell for it. What people dislike is when individuals write in paper thin representations, and then posture about as progressive heroes for doing so. They like it even less when they attempt to get the press to attack gamers as hateful because they didn't like their writing.
The controversy was never about inclusion of trans characters. Or gay characters, or women, or whatever. It had to do with certain... unwise statements made by the devs and even worse decisions as to how they got the press involved with the whole thing.
"Unwise statements" would never have had an opportunity to be made if it wasn't first an issue about having a transgender character. So yes, it was about the inclusion of a transgender character. Otherwise nobody would have attacked Beamdog and asked what they were doing to begin with.
It was an issue of cringy writing and tokenism of certain groups to gain credibility among progressive circles instead of taking the time to craft a decent character, and the backlash was toward said devs rather than the game per se.
I feel that this was already covered well in another thread, so instead of getting agitated that people actually believe that line of nonsense, I'm just going to blockquote @Jarrakul here for you:
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Lord Foreshadow was forced into the game for the sake of just having a reference to the still-in-planning-stages Neverwinter Nights. He was unrealistic and sloppy and without any real purpose. Bub Snikt was forced into the game for the sake of having a Wolverine reference, and don't even get me started on Drizzt and Cadderly. Does that mean these things should be in the game? Of course it doesn't. But if you think for a second that the outrage is just about the writers being ham-handed, you haven't been paying attention. No one cared about the ham-handedness until it meant there was a trans person in the game.
How anyone can possibly claim that it is about the "cringy writing and tokenism" is absolutely beyond me.
They like it even less when they attempt to get the press to attack gamers as hateful because they didn't like their writing.
I don't recall Beamdog trying to get the press to attack gamers as hateful, but if they had, I don't know that they would have been wrong. I'm wiling to concede this point, however, as soon as I see a dozen other threads pop up that strongly complain about the inclusion of other unrealistic and sloppy characters such as Lord Foreshadow, Bub Snikt, Drizzt and Cadderly, Larry, Darryl, and Darryl, etc.
I love how people keep showing up with the "it was never about inclusion of trans characters" as if most of us weren't here at the start of the whole thing and literally saw what people were saying. Or read the negative reviews and saw what people were saying there. It's such a blatant attempt at revisionist history, and I kind of wonder if they've managed to actually rationalize themselves into believing this version of events.
Or maybe it's exactly what it looks like and they're trying to get goalpost moving instated as an olympic sport.
I love how people keep showing up with the "it was never about inclusion of trans characters" as if most of us weren't here at the start of the whole thing and literally saw what people were saying. Or read the negative reviews and saw what people were saying there. It's such a blatant attempt at revisionist history, and I kind of wonder if they've managed to actually rationalize themselves into believing this version of events.
Or maybe it's exactly what it looks like and they're trying to get goalpost moving instated as an olympic sport.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly. What people were saying was that they felt politics were being shoehorned in, and were doing a bad job of explaining what they meant. The writing was constantly being brought up for a reason, and the writing was what the problem was. There is a reason that I brought up Bioware's games and their LGBT representation, no one had a problem with it there and those games had far more exposure. I've read the reviews you speak of, and the problem constantly comes back to tokenism and bad writing.
I love how people keep showing up with the "it was never about inclusion of trans characters" as if most of us weren't here at the start of the whole thing and literally saw what people were saying. Or read the negative reviews and saw what people were saying there. It's such a blatant attempt at revisionist history, and I kind of wonder if they've managed to actually rationalize themselves into believing this version of events.
Or maybe it's exactly what it looks like and they're trying to get goalpost moving instated as an olympic sport.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly. What people were saying was that they felt politics were being shoehorned in, and were doing a bad job of explaining what they meant. The writing was constantly being brought up for a reason, and the writing was what the problem was. There is a reason that I brought up Bioware's games and their LGBT representation, no one had a problem with it there and those games had far more exposure. I've read the reviews you speak of, and the problem constantly comes back to tokenism and bad writing.
I came here for Baldur's Gate, not fairy tales. Take that vain attempt at rewriting history somewhere else.
Funny you'd mention Bioware, because I distinctly remember someone over there receiving death threats to her and her children, following the digging of a six-year old statement, and irritation at the positive light shining on LGBT characters she wrote. Good writing is not an insurance policy against idiots.
To say that the problem is about tokenism and bad writing is ignoring that it did, indeed, start with people overreacting to a minor LGBT character. Sure, people can have legitimate concerns about the writing (and many have posted about it intelligently on this very board), but there are many claiming that who are simply adopting a more easily defensible position after they've been rightfully accused of acting like entitled toddlers with a very limited worldview.
Sometimes I think the world the trolls try to imagine is not so bad after all.
There's absolutly no transphoby in the backslash. And absolutly nobody have made transphobic reviews it's just about some writing&bug complaints. There's absolutly no harass in the targeting on some writers of the game or on their comments, that's just remark on the way they respond to the community (even if in fact the so calling "response" is a comment write long before the controversy and the """community""" seems for a lot of them not knowing some pretty basics aspects of the Realms and BG1&2). And no other game and compagny have ever face backslash for having include LGBT characters and Bioware and DA2, ME3 and DA:I was never under trolls attacks for that. Neveeeeer.
It's a total rewriting of the reality. Pleasant one I conceal, but totaly false.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly. What people were saying was that they felt politics were being shoehorned in, and were doing a bad job of explaining what they meant.....
Ah, perhaps you mean the person who came onto this forum and said that transgender characters shouldn't be included in mainstream computer games.
Or maybe you mean the post that singled out a particular employee of Beamdog and called them one of the worst expletives imaginable. Or maybe you mean any one of a number of posts that singled out and attacked the same employee (and in so doing conveniently ignoring every other employee of the company). What about the post that called that employee and their attitudes disgusting and despicable and hate filled. Or the one that called them evil.
Or maybe you mean one of the posts that insulted a whole group of people just because of who they are. The posts that resorted to name calling and the use of perjorative terms and labels. Or the post that inferred they are abnormal.
Or what about any number of posts that talked about the so called 'culture war'. About Siege of Dragonspear being a piece of political propaganda. About Beamdog being involved in the production and promotion of an 'SJW' agenda, and trying to shove it down gamers throats. About too many gay men in TV programmes. About Thor having his gender changed. And so on.
This whole 'controversy' didn't start as an honest critique of the quality (or otherwise) of the writing. All those 0 out of 10 reviews that appeared in the first couple of days declaring that Siege of Dragonspear was absolutely the worst game ever made weren't addressing character development or quest lines.
People are free to interpret the events of the last couple of weeks as they want....
Personally, what I saw was bigotry and bile and hyperbole, and a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine a newly released computer game.
I never understood the lack of great concern about LGBT content in Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan or the value of all life in North Korea for anyone who isn't Kim Dong Dingdong?
I love how people keep showing up with the "it was never about inclusion of trans characters" as if most of us weren't here at the start of the whole thing and literally saw what people were saying. Or read the negative reviews and saw what people were saying there. It's such a blatant attempt at revisionist history, and I kind of wonder if they've managed to actually rationalize themselves into believing this version of events.
Or maybe it's exactly what it looks like and they're trying to get goalpost moving instated as an olympic sport.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly. What people were saying was that they felt politics were being shoehorned in, and were doing a bad job of explaining what they meant. The writing was constantly being brought up for a reason, and the writing was what the problem was. There is a reason that I brought up Bioware's games and their LGBT representation, no one had a problem with it there and those games had far more exposure. I've read the reviews you speak of, and the problem constantly comes back to tokenism and bad writing.
Dude, speak for yourself. Stop trying to retcon what everyone else was saying into a message you find acceptable. They said what they said, period.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly.
This really is an incredible argument. "When people say openly bigoted things, it's not that they actually think that way, it's that they just don't possess the vocabulary to properly express their very rational inner thoughts."
My thought is that people are way too sensitive nowadays. There are many who live in war-torn countries, in places where violence is the norm and it seems not many care that much yet when you get PC game with poorly written transgender character you see so much hate and rage. If at least Mizhena said or did something controversial. I agree character is poorly written as there is nothing in the plot that would justify her revealing any personal stuff to you, but outside of that she does nothing that could upset anyone. In case someone forgot - 20 years ago there was transgender character in Baldur's Gate 2, Edwin aka Edwina and I can't remember any review giving the game 0 for simply including transgender person, maybe because there was a good explanation why a man suddenly became a woman or maybe because people where more tolerant back then.
20 years ago there was transgender character in Baldur's Gate 2, Edwin aka Edwina and I can't remember any review giving the game 0 for simply including transgender person
That was more of a joke, meant to humble Edwin. And Edwina could be turned back into Edwin if you wanted to finish the quest.
I’ve been on the forum for three years but rarely post.
I’m honestly shocked by all the feedback beam dog has gotten. I’m the first to admit that the EE additions were not on par with the originals but I hold them in such high esteem the couldn’t possibly have met my expectations,. The very fact they gave me the excuse to play the games id been waiting years for was enough. I know the content was hit and miss but just to be in that world again with some news additions was brilliant. I love Neera and Dorn and the black pits were excellent. I’m not so sold on Rassaad and I felt the added content was lacking but just to experience a polished version of my favourite games was enough.
The expansion on the other hand has been the best experience in an RPG I’ve had in years. I’ve played Dragon Age, Witcher 3 and Pillars of Eternity but I’ve enjoyed this more.
There are elements I don’t like mostly some of the new NPC's but the setting story and side characters are all excellent and very immersive. I love the idea of the crusade sweeping down and that the villain isn’t really a villain at all. I’ve enjoyed helping the crusade whilst working against it. The options for the quest outcomes offer more of a variety than most modern games and the quests themselves are all thought out, enjoyable and unique. The only game I’ve played from an RPG respective that has compared to this recently is Witcher 3. I enjoyed pillars but the setting doesn’t compare the the forgotten realms. I’m just glad someone is making games set in faerun and is giving me the chance to go into the world of Baldur’s Gate again. The fact the story, world, quests and characters have been lovingly written and created and pay such respect to the source material is a bonus.
I also don’t understand the controversy maybe it’s because I’m Welsh and live in Scotland but for me the transgender thing was a non-issue. I’ve spoken to the character done the side quests involving her and thought nothing of it.
Was completely taken by surprise when I read about all the fuss. Maybe it’s an issue in America were religion is a big thing but is just smacks of backwards thinking.
Transgender or any other orientation isn’t an issue for me are anyone I know how does a character in a fantasy game were previously wave had a belt that changes gender bother people so much. Even if it is as people have said, in there to promote the SJW agenda who cares it’s a fantasy world anything goes. There’s walking talking fungus I don’t like mushrooms but I’m not going to cry about Beam dog making them sentient and equal to other characters in the game. I find this all quite bizarre and its a damn shame if this effects sales or the prospect of Baldur’s gate 3 or a new expansion I’ll be gutted, just wish people would get a life and grow up. If it bothers you don’t play it but don’t bitch and moan and ruin if for everyone else.
IMO the uproar/feedback is because folks are tired of being force feed a particular viewpoint that's been very prevalent in the media but not out in the mainstream US this past 7-8 years. They especially get ticked when social and or political agendas get force fed into entertainment. Entertainment is where folks go to escape that kind of thing.
IE when George Clooney or Matt Damon try to push an social/political agenda with a movie it flops here in the US.
I agree character is poorly written as there is nothing in the plot that would justify her revealing any personal stuff to you
This video was already linked in another thread by @mzachary, but it's worth watching. It might change your view on how poorly you think a character is or is not written.
Funny you'd mention Bioware, because I distinctly remember someone over there receiving death threats to her and her children, following the digging of a six-year old statement, and irritation at the positive light shining on LGBT characters she wrote. Good writing is not an insurance policy against idiots.
To say that the problem is about tokenism and bad writing is ignoring that it did, indeed, start with people overreacting to a minor LGBT character. Sure, people can have legitimate concerns about the writing (and many have posted about it intelligently on this very board), but there are many claiming that who are simply adopting a more easily defensible position after they've been rightfully accused of acting like entitled toddlers with a very limited worldview.
I remember the outcry over the gay character in ME3. Some people went nuts over that one. There were some slander campaigns going on too. I remember it clearly.
"some flaws with the ending" simply isn't true, though. The developer told the players they would get 16 different endings (or was it 21?) and that all your choices in ME1 and 2 would have significant input on those endings. Instead you got to pick between 3 colours in the end, and you got a cutscene that made zero sense.
Not everyone has the ability to articulate their reasoning properly.
This really is an incredible argument. "When people say openly bigoted things, it's not that they actually think that way, it's that they just don't possess the vocabulary to properly express their very rational inner thoughts."
What I like is:
"There is no organized backlash." that many have said.
"Everyone who responds negatively has exactly the same criticisms." that many have said.
Funny you'd mention Bioware, because I distinctly remember someone over there receiving death threats to her and her children, following the digging of a six-year old statement, and irritation at the positive light shining on LGBT characters she wrote. Good writing is not an insurance policy against idiots.
To say that the problem is about tokenism and bad writing is ignoring that it did, indeed, start with people overreacting to a minor LGBT character. Sure, people can have legitimate concerns about the writing (and many have posted about it intelligently on this very board), but there are many claiming that who are simply adopting a more easily defensible position after they've been rightfully accused of acting like entitled toddlers with a very limited worldview.
I remember the outcry over the gay character in ME3. Some people went nuts over that one. There were some slander campaigns going on too. I remember it clearly.
"some flaws with the ending" simply isn't true, though. The developer told the players they would get 16 different endings (or was it 21?) and that all your choices in ME1 and 2 would have significant input on those endings. Instead you got to pick between 3 colours in the end, and you got a cutscene that made zero sense.
I went for an euphemism but yeah, that's what I meant when talking about the ending. Still, the public outcry was definitely not all about it, much like the outcry here is not only about poor writing.
(I do hope someone takes the time to read this, I feel it is important for everyone to acknowledge.) I must say, I find it completely absurd the level of generalizations and groupings that go on to dictate and draw the lines of "us vs them".
It's almost as if people believe that everyone who was against it was against it for the same reason. Or that everyone who was for it, was for it for the exact same reason.
Do I believe that there are people out there that truly hate Mizhena because she is TG? Most definitely. Do I believe that there are people who harrass developers through social media? Of course. But there are also people who generally believe that the character was poorly utilized. There are people that try and speak critically but calmly, and make their views known. There are people who were content with the revelation that Mizhena was going to get a deeper background/story.
Do I believe that people generally want to fight for the good of all people, to balance past wrongs? Of course. Do I also believe there are people that would throw some groups under the bus to prop up their own preferred group? Definitely. There are people who truly believe in social justice. There are also people who simply pay lip service to the cause, and wield it poorly, and even horrifically. And there are fanatics, who lash out with wild abandon at any difference of opinion.
The internet is the ultimate crowd-sourcing tool. It can be used to fund a project, or boost knowledge of one. It can be used to harvest vast amounts of good will from people. It can also be used to harvest/crowdsource hate. (From multiple points of view.)
As I define crowdsourcing, it is taking a little, sometimes insignificant amounts, from a lot of places to great effect.
One hundred people telling you that they disagree can be exasperating and daunting. But it is but a small fraction of the population. Ten people cursing at you and telling you that you are wrong can feel like a lot, but the value is insignificant in the grand scheme. One person threatening your life is terrifying, but that person may be in another country entirely. (Not that it shouldn't be taken seriously...but even 5 people who threaten you, does not lend credence to the idea that the 100 who disagree, or the 10 who are cursing at you, are also threatening you.)
I have read the last few pages of this thread, and there is a lot of hate. And that hate is not from (or all from) the people who were seen as "against" the whole SOD-business.
I implore people to maintain perspective, to see the diversity of people out there, and the vast spectrum of thoughts and opinions, and to not just group everyone into "us vs them." To understand, that when someone disagrees with you, they aren't necessarily arguing for the darkest or worst viewpoint on the other side. Points can and have existed on both sides of an argument before, but people tend to talk about their good points, and yell about the opponents bad ones, while refusing to acknowledge the opponent's good points, or accepting or considering the flaws in their own arguments.
Let go of the hate. (Sorry for being so lecturey...)
(Edit: I should note that I don't support censorship in any form. But just wanted to point and and emphasize the way of things. Understanding it allows one to navigate clearer, and hopefully handle things better. Honestly, I feel that a large percentage of the anger lately comes from a large miscommunication of idea and points of view. On forums, in education, in media, in studies, etc.)
I agree character is poorly written as there is nothing in the plot that would justify her revealing any personal stuff to you
This video was already linked in another thread by @mzachary, but it's worth watching. It might change your view on how poorly you think a character is or is not written.
Thanks for that video. I like the way he points out that the magic in the forgotten realms and the options available for changing sex may make trans people more common place and open about their history.
Several times when ive heard people arguing against Mizhena, they say the opposite. That having belts of masculinity/femininity, potions and other magic makes it so that trans people wouldn't exist in that world. Every time I hear this I feel like I'm going insane or missing some completely obvious point that will make me look stupid, but Trans people are simply people that identify differently to the sex that they were born with, correct? So how does being able to change sex easier mean that Trans people wouldn't exist? Even if someone has gone through the gender changing process (in FR, it could be through belts/magic or whatever) to become fully transsexual, they could still be classes ad transgender, right??
Seriously, someone tell me if I'm missing something here, but that argument seems full of holes to me.
I agree character is poorly written as there is nothing in the plot that would justify her revealing any personal stuff to you
This video was already linked in another thread by @mzachary, but it's worth watching. It might change your view on how poorly you think a character is or is not written.
Thanks for that video. I like the way he points out that the magic in the forgotten realms and the options available for changing sex may make trans people more common place and open about their history.
Several times when ive heard people arguing against Mizhena, they say the opposite. That having belts of masculinity/femininity, potions and other magic makes it so that trans people wouldn't exist in that world. Every time I hear this I feel like I'm going insane or missing some completely obvious point that will make me look stupid, but Trans people are simply people that identify differently to the sex that they were born with, correct? So how does being able to change sex easier mean that Trans people wouldn't exist? Even if someone has gone through the gender changing process (in FR, it could be through belts/magic or whatever) to become fully transsexual, they could still be classes ad transgender, right??
Seriously, someone tell me if I'm missing something here, but that argument seems full of holes to me.
No you are quite sane @Excalibur_2102 the argument fundamentally makes no sense. unless you realize that the people using it are probably not being very honest... The real problem that some people seem to have is that they are confronted by an unapologetic transgender character. But i guess they do not want to admit that, because that would be obviously bigoted. So they make these weird convoluted excuses why the transgender character shouldn't be there/not mention that she is trans (because if she does not mention it, you can remain blissfully unaware).
So people come with silly notions that the girdle of masculinity/femininity being so 'commonplace' (though I cannot help but think that there was just 1 girdle in the BG game) would result in transgender characters having no need to mention that they were once another gender (so they can ignore her)...
Note that it is actually unknown what Miz uses or not uses for her transition, maybe she has such a girdle or used other forms of magic, or maybe she didn't. However such details do not matter for people who start from the notion that the character does not make sense and do not want to see her in the game, because they are not interested in counterarguments to that.
Don't know what is the english definition for transness but in my country it's not the one cited here. Are trans people for whom their gender identity is not the gender identity which given to them at birth. That's pretty different. Because it include more experience, like nobinary people (for whom the "sexual identity matching" thing is... a total nonsense), like the fact that even after the full surgery thing you still will have a lot of problem in my country to make the change on your official ID, and the fact you still have to face a lot of transphobia from peoples and institutions which still considere you like a "false man/woman". And you still have to take hormones all your life if you decide to do all the hormones/surgery thing in my knowledge.
So there's no way that can be "cured". Cause even if we can magicaly change ours body we can't change our past and the bad-assignation at birth. It's maybe one of the few thing all trans experience have in share. (And funnily that's the only thing that are in the game, and that's why I found Mizhena very well-written).
In another way to put it. We dont know if Mizhena have used magical change or not and she never use the "transgender" term to described herself. So when people say she cannot exist because transgender people cannot exist in a word like the Realms cause of the body-magical thing they are totally proving the opposite in fact.
If you have any question feel free to ask it. Hope it help you.
Comments
When I first heard the term "SJW"(not long ago) I misread it as JWs... I was really confused as to what the Jehovahs Witnesses had done... IN OUR VIDEO GAMES!
Uff.
If you excuse me, I gotta go and do something with my life. Build a house. Plant a tree. Suck some brains. Find a girl or something...
saw a face
and, just, instantly knew what it's owner is going to say on a youtube manifesto
No one cares if you want LGBT representation in your games. Bioware does it all the time and doesn't catch hell for it. What people dislike is when individuals write in paper thin representations, and then posture about as progressive heroes for doing so. They like it even less when they attempt to get the press to attack gamers as hateful because they didn't like their writing.
Or maybe it's exactly what it looks like and they're trying to get goalpost moving instated as an olympic sport.
To say that the problem is about tokenism and bad writing is ignoring that it did, indeed, start with people overreacting to a minor LGBT character. Sure, people can have legitimate concerns about the writing (and many have posted about it intelligently on this very board), but there are many claiming that who are simply adopting a more easily defensible position after they've been rightfully accused of acting like entitled toddlers with a very limited worldview.
Sources that prove there were, indeed, problems with Bioware's depictions of LGBT characters :
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/16/bioware-writer-quits-after-death-threats-to-family-3925970/
http://www.nomorelost.org/2011/03/25/straight-male-gamer-told-to-get-over-it-by-bioware/
Edit : And here's a discussion on the slandering, on metacritic, of Mass Effect 3, by Bioware, an otherwise well-received game despite some flaws with the ending, for the same reason Siege of Dragonspear was slandered.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/06/mass-effect-3s-gay-romance-option-leads-to-user-backlash-on-metacritic/#23d1884e62b4
There's absolutly no transphoby in the backslash. And absolutly nobody have made transphobic reviews it's just about some writing&bug complaints.
There's absolutly no harass in the targeting on some writers of the game or on their comments, that's just remark on the way they respond to the community (even if in fact the so calling "response" is a comment write long before the controversy and the """community""" seems for a lot of them not knowing some pretty basics aspects of the Realms and BG1&2).
And no other game and compagny have ever face backslash for having include LGBT characters and Bioware and DA2, ME3 and DA:I was never under trolls attacks for that. Neveeeeer.
It's a total rewriting of the reality. Pleasant one I conceal, but totaly false.
Or maybe you mean the post that singled out a particular employee of Beamdog and called them one of the worst expletives imaginable. Or maybe you mean any one of a number of posts that singled out and attacked the same employee (and in so doing conveniently ignoring every other employee of the company). What about the post that called that employee and their attitudes disgusting and despicable and hate filled. Or the one that called them evil.
Or maybe you mean one of the posts that insulted a whole group of people just because of who they are. The posts that resorted to name calling and the use of perjorative terms and labels. Or the post that inferred they are abnormal.
Or what about any number of posts that talked about the so called 'culture war'. About Siege of Dragonspear being a piece of political propaganda. About Beamdog being involved in the production and promotion of an 'SJW' agenda, and trying to shove it down gamers throats. About too many gay men in TV programmes. About Thor having his gender changed. And so on.
This whole 'controversy' didn't start as an honest critique of the quality (or otherwise) of the writing. All those 0 out of 10 reviews that appeared in the first couple of days declaring that Siege of Dragonspear was absolutely the worst game ever made weren't addressing character development or quest lines.
People are free to interpret the events of the last couple of weeks as they want....
Personally, what I saw was bigotry and bile and hyperbole, and a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine a newly released computer game.
IE when George Clooney or Matt Damon try to push an social/political agenda with a movie it flops here in the US.
"some flaws with the ending" simply isn't true, though. The developer told the players they would get 16 different endings (or was it 21?) and that all your choices in ME1 and 2 would have significant input on those endings. Instead you got to pick between 3 colours in the end, and you got a cutscene that made zero sense.
"There is no organized backlash." that many have said.
"Everyone who responds negatively has exactly the same criticisms." that many have said.
I must say, I find it completely absurd the level of generalizations and groupings that go on to dictate and draw the lines of "us vs them".
It's almost as if people believe that everyone who was against it was against it for the same reason.
Or that everyone who was for it, was for it for the exact same reason.
Do I believe that there are people out there that truly hate Mizhena because she is TG? Most definitely.
Do I believe that there are people who harrass developers through social media? Of course.
But there are also people who generally believe that the character was poorly utilized.
There are people that try and speak critically but calmly, and make their views known.
There are people who were content with the revelation that Mizhena was going to get a deeper background/story.
Do I believe that people generally want to fight for the good of all people, to balance past wrongs? Of course.
Do I also believe there are people that would throw some groups under the bus to prop up their own preferred group? Definitely.
There are people who truly believe in social justice.
There are also people who simply pay lip service to the cause, and wield it poorly, and even horrifically.
And there are fanatics, who lash out with wild abandon at any difference of opinion.
The internet is the ultimate crowd-sourcing tool.
It can be used to fund a project, or boost knowledge of one.
It can be used to harvest vast amounts of good will from people.
It can also be used to harvest/crowdsource hate. (From multiple points of view.)
As I define crowdsourcing, it is taking a little, sometimes insignificant amounts, from a lot of places to great effect.
One hundred people telling you that they disagree can be exasperating and daunting. But it is but a small fraction of the population.
Ten people cursing at you and telling you that you are wrong can feel like a lot, but the value is insignificant in the grand scheme.
One person threatening your life is terrifying, but that person may be in another country entirely.
(Not that it shouldn't be taken seriously...but even 5 people who threaten you, does not lend credence to the idea that the 100 who disagree, or the 10 who are cursing at you, are also threatening you.)
I have read the last few pages of this thread, and there is a lot of hate. And that hate is not from (or all from) the people who were seen as "against" the whole SOD-business.
I implore people to maintain perspective, to see the diversity of people out there, and the vast spectrum of thoughts and opinions, and to not just group everyone into "us vs them." To understand, that when someone disagrees with you, they aren't necessarily arguing for the darkest or worst viewpoint on the other side. Points can and have existed on both sides of an argument before, but people tend to talk about their good points, and yell about the opponents bad ones, while refusing to acknowledge the opponent's good points, or accepting or considering the flaws in their own arguments.
Let go of the hate. (Sorry for being so lecturey...)
(Edit: I should note that I don't support censorship in any form. But just wanted to point and and emphasize the way of things. Understanding it allows one to navigate clearer, and hopefully handle things better. Honestly, I feel that a large percentage of the anger lately comes from a large miscommunication of idea and points of view. On forums, in education, in media, in studies, etc.)
Several times when ive heard people arguing against Mizhena, they say the opposite. That having belts of masculinity/femininity, potions and other magic makes it so that trans people wouldn't exist in that world. Every time I hear this I feel like I'm going insane or missing some completely obvious point that will make me look stupid, but Trans people are simply people that identify differently to the sex that they were born with, correct? So how does being able to change sex easier mean that Trans people wouldn't exist? Even if someone has gone through the gender changing process (in FR, it could be through belts/magic or whatever) to become fully transsexual, they could still be classes ad transgender, right??
Seriously, someone tell me if I'm missing something here, but that argument seems full of holes to me.
So people come with silly notions that the girdle of masculinity/femininity being so 'commonplace' (though I cannot help but think that there was just 1 girdle in the BG game) would result in transgender characters having no need to mention that they were once another gender (so they can ignore her)...
Note that it is actually unknown what Miz uses or not uses for her transition, maybe she has such a girdle or used other forms of magic, or maybe she didn't. However such details do not matter for people who start from the notion that the character does not make sense and do not want to see her in the game, because they are not interested in counterarguments to that.
I'll copy/paste you the thing i've made on another post on this question: In another way to put it. We dont know if Mizhena have used magical change or not and she never use the "transgender" term to described herself. So when people say she cannot exist because transgender people cannot exist in a word like the Realms cause of the body-magical thing they are totally proving the opposite in fact.
If you have any question feel free to ask it. Hope it help you.