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What's up with the new UI? +my opinion on it

...Because it's terrible in so many ways I have a hard time understanding how they could release it. I will try to describe "all"(just got back and made a new save so there could be a lot more that I'm missing) my issues as coherently as I can.

Character creation
-Gender selection is fine
-Portrait selection: seem to have lost the whole chose you small and big portraits, NOT ok. I like to have one big portrait for the character screen and one smaller more centered on the face in the upper right corner. Also portrait selection is horrible! Do i seriously have to sit and click left 50+ times(can't even use the bloody arrow keys!) to get to the portrait I want when that was not an issue before? Am I missing something? Also I can't see all my portraits anymore, they are in the correct format and almost the correct resolution, but it should scale according to the new "custom" button that is apparently now a information button. Why is it still called custom?
This whole part is probably the crappiest part of the entire patch, it's insanely important for an RPG to have good character creation and it is now completely butchered. I'm sorry but why the f was this crap implemented?
-Race selection: is "fine", looks a bit alpha with the very simple design but I can live with it. Still don't see *why* but what the hell, whatever...
-Class selection: So I now need to scroll down to find my class? Why? Also what's up with the terrible design? Total lack of the BG style.
-Kit selection: My first reaction: "Oh I can't chose a kit anymore? I can only click "done"? Ok this is very weird where are my kits? Meh... Guess i just go for a pure paladin then. **click** OH!? Kits are not gone? But why did the button say "done" and not something like "done, or chose a kit", seem unnecessarily unclear". Not that it matters that much but i can't help but constantly ask "why?" to pretty much every type of change like this. Because seriously, why? You know the saying don't fix something that ain't broken. For example if I like dwarves I will have no idea sorcerers exist unless I chose some race I normally don't play?
-Alignment: Still the whole feel that something is missing, feels like I'm looking at a word document when selecting alignment, not choosing my characters moral compass. Also if this was my first time playing the game I would have no idea that other alignment exists since they are not on the list, same goes with class.
-Abilities: No change... Why is there no change here? The only place where there could actually be improvements to be made? For example why not show my stored abilities? There is a lot of space that could be used.
-Proficiency: Again looks "fine" but I can't see the stuff i can't use. So *again* if i were a new player I would have no idea other proficiencies exist? If you don't want unusable stuff to clutter up the list why not put all the unusable stuff at the bottom of the list with some "ineligible" or "can't use" or simply grayed out(... like... it... was... before?)? The red selection thing looks ok though, looks incredibly basic but *whatever*.
-Mage spell selection: Crap. Why do I have to scroll through a huge list of spells to find what I want when I could just see all the spells before and select by recognizing their icon? Big downgrade. Also why are a bunch of really crappy spells already selected? That was not the case before right? Why make me go down the list and find the selected spells, remove them so I can finally chose the spells I want? Why make it more difficult that it needs to be?
-Priest spell selection: Better but still crap for the reason already mentioned.
-Racial enemy: Looks the same, same opinion on the red thing.
-Appearance: BRAVO! Huge improvement, don't quite get the two paperdolls but who cares!? All the possible colours make for a huge improvement! For more improvement: why not add the ability to tint the metal and leather parts? It can already be done in keeper. Also maybe correct the colour order? Bunch of grey and brown in the middle of the red, green, blue and purple.
-Soundsets: Looks fine but the text is huge? I'm not on a tablet using my fat fingers, I have a mouse. Seems to go for a lot of the selection stuff, why is everything so fat?
-Name: slight change that does not matter.
-Difficulty: Again BRAVO! Looks sweet with the gold icons, very baldur's gatey. More info on the difficulties could be added, like that hard and insane includes the core rules. That might be unclear to those who have not played the game before.

In game
-Gameplay options: If this isn't new disregard this. BRAVO! Always wanted to play on higher difficulties but still get max hp on level up, a lot of other really nice options. Big improvement! Scroll speed for the mouse and keyboard sadly is still very slow even on max.
-Graphics: Options options and even more options. BRAVO! Stuff that was added like the outline(that exists for some unknown reason along with the gray pause) can be turned off! If only that was the case with the whole character creation overhaul, which I just want to add again(sorry) that it's crap on so many levels.
-Sound: Even more options! Whoever was responsible for the in-game options did a great job and deserve a big pat on the back.
-Map: Heard a lot of crap about it that I have sadly not yet experienced so I don't have all that much negative to say. I like the zoom-in/zoom-out function upon entering and leaving it. Being able to see where I can walk is also a fun feature that ADDS new functionality and does not take away it.
-Journal: AMAZING! It's suddenly useful! Just touched it so I can image there being bugs in it but on my first look it's well designed and gives the feel of your character opening up their journal to see what's on the to-do list. Really well done!
-Inventory: Looks the same, works great and was not changed for the sake of change! Great!
-Character page/record: I like it, a lot. Again, I have heard a lot of crap about it but i think it's an improvement. If I want to know something specific about this one character I can just click on the tab I'm interested in and I get the information I wanted. Great! The old scroll til' you find what you are looking for was pretty crap and this was a needed improvement, well done! It also remembers what page you were on when you switch between party members, sweet beautiful functionality!
-New AI options: Like it a lot, gives the player more options which is always a good thing. Maybe allow changing selected character from inside the AI page to quickly configure a bunch of party members.
-Speech bubbles: I like them, makes text easier to read. Don't find it all that necessary but I'm sure some do.
-Mage spells: Why the god damn lists!? They don't add anything just makes it a bother to scroll through.
-Priest spells: Same opinion, creates problems where there were none to begin with, why?
-Path-finding: Seemed to be improved, think i read somewhere that it could not be done but here we are. Yay?
-Loading/saving: Save page is still the same and works well. The load page... everything is huge! And does not fit with the save page and looks like something from a tablet/phone game, if the double click load was not there it would have been an even worse. Because why is "load" as far away from the first save as possible? WHy the unnecessary mouse travel time?
-Fun with grayscale: stare at the screen for 30 or so seconds then pause the game: (∩`-´)⊃━☆゚.*・。゚Magic!

Conclusion
I have no idea how some of these changes made it into the game, it did have a beta right? Did seriously no one say anything about these changes being stupid? Even internally it should have been brought up, it can't be missed. Did all the beta testers sit around with a finger up their nose(no offence but it's warranted)? The changes inside the game are pretty much all great but the character creation is mind-bogglingly crap, the portrait options almost look like a placeholder. And again it's insanely crap, the old one was much much better. And why all the scroll-able frickin' lists, on any average sized screen they are totally unnecessary and just a bother to use. So why!? Which I guess will be my final word to summarize my whole "character creation" experience. WHY!?

Can I roll back to the previous patch?

Again just so I don't come off as spiteful, in-game options and new functions are generally great, it's just this character creation... it hurts. Hoping I'm a moron and simply missing why it's amazing.

FlashburnlunarAerakarJuliusBorisovArdulOlderThan13Years

Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,770
    I appreciatw your critique, but I cannot help but feel that they had a vision making the new UI. Some things may not look as good, but others look tremendously beautiful.

    GozetaJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,346
    I agree with you, too. Spell book looks really bad, like a pdf document or something. Choosing portraits is downright painful and it is broken for me, I wish it would change back to what it was. Some menus look not like bg anymore with that wordsheet list feeling and red highlight, it loses ambiance and that authentic feeling. Not a fan.

    DullSkullTheSecondJuliusBorisov
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 239
    @DJKajuru I try to be optimistic and think the same but I just can't figure out this "vision". They should know what they are doing.

    @jackjack As I said the in-game features and options are great(with the exception of the spell book) and I'm a big fan. Giving the option to remove stuff like the outline and grey pause was very thoughtful and great in every way. But the character creation... Horrible.

    DJKajurujackjackArdul
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    The more feedback on new UI is given on the forum, the better the finish result will be. UI will be patched and all ideas people express will be looked at. After all, the current UI is inspired by @00zim00 's ideas during the open beta of 2.0.

    DJKajuruDullSkullTheSecondillathid
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 239
    bengoshi said:

    The more feedback on new UI is given on the forum, the better the finish result will be. UI will be patched and all ideas people express will be looked at. After all, the current UI is inspired by @00zim00 's ideas during the open beta of 2.0.

    Very glad to hear it, at the moment the character creation in itself is very off putting. Wanted to do a bg1ee -> SoD ->bg2ee run but this kind of killed it :disappointed:
    Hoping all my concerns will soon be in the past :smile:

    JuliusBorisovjackjack
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 265
    bengoshi said:

    After all, the current UI is inspired by @00zim00 's ideas during the open beta of 2.0.

    Only the current Character Record UI, dont be giving me 'credit' for the rest of the UI. ;)

    Here is a link to the information about how the change happened if your interested.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49640/new-2-0-record-menu-hype/p1

    JuliusBorisovDullSkullTheSecondjackjackArdul
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 239
    00zim00 said:

    bengoshi said:

    After all, the current UI is inspired by @00zim00 's ideas during the open beta of 2.0.

    Only the current Character Record UI, dont be giving me 'credit' for the rest of the UI. ;)

    Here is a link to the information about how the change happened if your interested.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49640/new-2-0-record-menu-hype/p1

    Ahh that explains things. The hate I heard must have been connected with the old character record. I really like the new one, big thanks for at the very least being very influential in its creation!

    00zim00JuliusBorisov
  • PteranPteran Member Posts: 388
    edited April 2016
    I didn't want to make a new thread, so I'll share my thoughts here. I actually really like the new character sheet. Seems better than having to scroll endlessly.

    In game the new UI, journal pop-ups, and the map seem freaking awesome. I love the new zoom in and out also. I don't know what changed but I can now scroll waaaayyy further out than I could before. Also when I'm trying to quickly travel across a map I've already cleared, I just use Ctrl+J. I love that it's now an instant teleport, no more waiting several seconds.

    I haven't had any experience with the Mage/Priest spell books yet, so no comments on those changes.

    My biggest complaint thus far is that I can no longer double click an item container while shopping and open it up. I have to right click on my Bag of Holding, and then click Open Container. Just seems unnecessary to me.

    Also I can no longer hit Esc to go back on the menu or exit the game. When I was done I'd save, click Quit, and hit Esc a couple times and it would close. Now when I hit Quit it automatically closes the game. That's fine, unless I need to do something else on the main menu, or jump to a BP game. Just a minor quality of life thing, not a huge complaint.

    The character creation changes are a little odd, but I'll get used to them. I just prefer the old method of graying out unelectable options. However the Appearance tab during creation is amazing! I no longer have to use EEKeeper to pick exciting colors! I can use the slider and see how it looks in game immediately!

    Edit: Forgot to mention the console changes. When I open up the console, it no longer remembers the previous commands I gave it. Playing the game for the Nth time, I make liberal use of C: ExploreArea(). I have to retype the whole command each time.

    I'd say there are a few things that should be tweaked, but overall I am very happy with the new setup.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,455
    Pteran said:

    Also I can no longer hit Esc to go back on the menu or exit the game. When I was done I'd save, click Quit, and hit Esc a couple times and it would close. Now when I hit Quit it automatically closes the game. That's fine, unless I need to do something else on the main menu, or jump to a BP game. Just a minor quality of life thing, not a huge complaint.

    There's a Return to Menu button next to the Quit.

    PteranJuliusBorisovGozeta
  • PteranPteran Member Posts: 388
    BillyYank said:

    Pteran said:

    Also I can no longer hit Esc to go back on the menu or exit the game. When I was done I'd save, click Quit, and hit Esc a couple times and it would close. Now when I hit Quit it automatically closes the game. That's fine, unless I need to do something else on the main menu, or jump to a BP game. Just a minor quality of life thing, not a huge complaint.

    There's a Return to Menu button next to the Quit.

    Well now I feel foolish lol. I only played for an hour or two after work last night. Thanks for pointing that out =)

  • AzzaraAzzara Member Posts: 184
    edited April 2016
    I dislike the new character sheet. It is irredeemably flawed and should be scrapped altogether.
    Every single element on it is in the wrong position, does the wrong thing or is irrelevant.

    This is what I see when I look at the new character sheet.


    This is what it actually looks like. :)


    I have a huge problem with this layout. It looks like the buttons "Stats" and "Biography" apply to the text box below them and the rest of the buttons above control the whole layout. This is not the case. All buttons control the same text box apart from the three buttons on the bottom of the sheet.
    I suppose this design decision was made because the buttons were too many. In this case we should reduce the number of buttons or organize them differently so it is more clear what they do.

    The second problem I have with the many buttons is that it isn't clear which of the buttons is currently pressed. Can you guess if the screenshot above displays the "Abilities" screen or the "Skills" screen? I can't.

    Let's examine the components on the character sheet (record screen) one by one.
    "Information" is fine. Only the word used for it is confusing. Everything else on this sheet is information too, not just the text box to the left. I've seen a mod which renames this to "overview".
    "Class" is a remnant of the old UI which is redundant. This is a great candidate for removal. Unlike most other views the class information almost never changes. So why is it displayed as prominently? Maybe we can click on the class of the character and see this information displayed instead of having a dedicated button at the opposite end of the screen.
    "Combat Stats" is just a shorter "Information" with even more omissions. However, this is just the kind of overview I'd usually like to see.
    "Skills" are usually class based skills. Maybe we can click on the class itself to display them. Click on thief to see thieving skills. Click on cleric to see turn undead. Alternatively, we could switch the abilities view (STR, DEX, etc) to temporarily display the skills instead. In the current UI I can click on STR to see what it does but I can't click on Move Silently to see what it does.
    "Abilities" is redundant. Right now abilities are always visible! What this button does is display the bonuses we get from abilities. Why doesn't it display the bonuses when I click on the abilities themselves though?
    "Stats" is not interesting enough to be displayed so prominently. I have no idea where to put it. Maybe keep it in a corner.
    "Biography" like "Class" rarely changes. It is only interesting for people who write biographies. If the UI was meant to serve that need it would have provided an edit button. It didn't. You'll never guess where the edit button is hidden. Do we really need a Biography button though? Can't we just click on the name of the character or the portrait to make the bio appear? Or make it a permanent component of the customize dialog instead?
    "Customize" is nothing but a redundant step to get to the AI scripts of NPCs. Unless I am customizing the main character of course. We could have just written "Script AI" here and made a separate feature for customizing the main character specifically. Like clicking on that huge portrait for example.
    "Reform Party" could be put somewhere else. Under the portraits to the right is a good place for it. Unfortunately, people might click on it unintentionally during battle if it is displayed too prominently so I guess maybe not. I don't know, maybe put it above the portraits instead.
    "Export" is button which does nothing unless you are viewing the main character. It is clickable but not grayed out for everyone else which is confusing. It mostly takes valuable space.

    Anyway, why do "Customize" and "Export" open modal dialogs? I understand that we need context for the "Export" and "Customize" dialogs but the current method doesn't work. The modal dialog fully covers its parent dialog. This means that the the parent dialog provides no context for the modal dialog. I can't see which character I'm customizing or exporting. I can't even tell that it is the character sheet I see behind. Maybe put a portrait of the character somewhere. Or highlight the character portrait to the right. No overlapping textures, no fading into gray needed. Or maybe no context is needed anyway. The new dialog can just replace the character sheet screen. Like the "Reform Party" dialog does it.

    Ability scores are also interactive in the new UI. They replace the text to the left which is normally only influenced by clicking a button. That information is a short description which confusingly ends with "Minimum: Maximum:" Maybe put the effects of the ability score here. Carry weight, AC bonus?

    The huge portrait to the right is not interactive even for a main char. If I want to change the portrait I have to search for the feature that does that. It is on the opposite side of the screen again.

    You know what else is non-interactive? That huge blinking button which says Level Up! Watch a video of someone playing with the new UI. They would instinctively reach for the blinking bar on level up even if they know it is non-interactive. Make it interactive, maybe, and get rid of the dedicated "Level Up" button which does nothing 90% of the time. Or maybe remove the blinking bar instead.

    No bad feelings towards the people who developed the new dialog. The new UI system could help them create something functional in the future. However, I dislike their current version.

  • OlderThan13YearsOlderThan13Years Member Posts: 62
    edited April 2016
    First of all, I like 90 % of the new UI but there is a very annoying problem with the import screen (Maybe it's not a new problem?). I can't differentiate between two versions of the identical character. The file name of the char should be visible:



    00zim00jackjack
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Have gone back to the original game (with tutu installed) since these major UI changes and, at the risk of sounding like an old timer, feel I'm getting the original bg experience again... Ee seems to have lost that along with much of the original beauty... Like many, I simply can't understand why either.

    Could just be personal preference/ nostalgia and no offence intended as you all seem like great guys at beamdog and ee + the steam release has without doubt exposed a great game to a whole new generation, as well as building a nice community here.

    DJKajurulunarGozeta
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 265
    Azzara said:

    It looks like the buttons "Stats" and "Biography" apply to the text box below them and the rest of the buttons above control the whole layout.

    Thats actually very similar to how my original design was made to work like. But since it was such a surprise that they changed it at all, and then Dee said "We have ideas for how to improve it in general, but making it function better for this release is important." I figured they would be changing it later. Im not sure how the UI working like this will play in game, it may be to many clicks, so that would need to be thought about. Its a little different then your example so read the thread post below if your interested.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48436/comparing-the-old-and-new-character-record-ui-is-it-final/p1
    Azzara said:

    The second problem I have with the many buttons is that it isn't clear which of the buttons is currently pressed.

    I agree and this also was part of my design, you can see this in my mock ups in the main post. I have them "pressing" so you knew what you had selected.


    Here is a link to the main post I made which had the thought process of the UI I came up with. The other two links includes all the feedback people gave with the changes that were made by me.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48436/comparing-the-old-and-new-character-record-ui-is-it-final/p1

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/717901/#Comment_717901
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/718791/#Comment_718791


    To the rest of your post I mostly agree xD. Especially with the "huge blinking button which says Level Up!" comment lol. Feedback here is def good though, hope they are collecting this information to use later.

    JuliusBorisovillathid
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    Other than the character portrait issues, I generally adore the new UI. Everything looks so much better now; I can't imagine ever voluntarily going back to the old one. I especially don't get why people dislike the outlines. Well, thankfully, they're optional for those who don't like them.

    DullSkullTheSecondjackjackillathidArdul
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