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Breaking immersion in the game - did anyone like this inside joke?

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  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862

    Isn't Liam Ensler the dev who was given -1 on all his saves by WotC?

    I get what the op is saying. I think that Breaking the fourth wall needs to be done with a light hand but I enjoy them when they are done well. And yeah, the it's been done forever. The captain of the guard in Castle Greyhawk is Col. Sanders.

    There is no dev at Beamdog who is called 'Ensler'.
  • namelesstwonamelesstwo Member Posts: 15
    I really don`t get why do people keep complaining about modern world references in SOD and EE versions. the original BG series was full of those ("I am the law!", "My aim is true", Bondari reloads...) and there was nothing wrong about it.
  • rjmacreadyrjmacready Member Posts: 91
    edited April 2016
    Sorry but if immersion breaking jokes arent your thing then Baldurs Gate isnt the series for you and hasnt been for say ooooh I dont know "since the moment it was first released".

    Im pretty sure the "immersion breaking jokes" number somewhere in the dozens when counted througout the entire series. I just recently came across Neb in BG2 and the inventory icon for his severed head is clearly taken from a real life (dev) person.

    Sorry OP I mean no disrespect or personal insult when I say this but.... this is the Baldurs Gate series and you havent got a leg to stand on. Its virtually tradition to have immersion breaking humour.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Absolutely no problem for me, because I did not even notice it, and do not really get the joke or reference to be honest. Someone could explain it for an ignorant, please?

    But even when I will get it, I doubt it'll be a problem.

    I enjoy the little quips, and BG has absolutely always had these meta-references, and I see absolutely now reason why Beamdog should change the series for something else.

    Take Edwin in BG. Sometimes he protests: "What is this mouse-magic that makes me do your bidding" or something to this effect. I find it quite hilarious, and certainly love Edwin!
  • MoradinMoradin Member Posts: 372
    edited April 2016
    I did not notice nor get the reference. Besides, even if I did, inside jokes are hardly original to SoD.
    Off the top of my heard I remember:
    - Edwin's "I do not understand this... 'mouse magic' that makes me do thine bidding";
    - Tiax's "The day comes when Tiax will point and click";
    - Kivan's "Click on someone your size";
    - Lilarcor's "My brother is a +12 Hackmaster!" or "I was like a ... a moonblade!";
    - the guy in Feldepost's Inn that, when you kill his mate, goes: "Hey, don't click me! I don't want any trouble!".

    and the list goes on.

    Are these immersion breaking? I tend to disagree.
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212

    How do others feel about this?

    Frankly, two options: (1) I don't get the joke, because I am not an insider and don't know what "Liam Esler" refers to, since it may be a generic placeholder name for the "lie" choice of answering. Or (2) I understand the reference and either smile or yawn.

    No reason to make a big fuss about it. There have been easter eggs in computer games before. And also hidden tributes/references to developers, contributors, testers, community members, or people that have passed away during development. Some are easy to spot, others maybe not.

    The game is too simple and too restrictive to complain about something like that as breaking immersion. Have you ever before wanted to travel farther to the north to Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Luskan, or Mirabar? It's not possible, and that is much more of a problem in my opinion. You are confined in a small part of the world only to satisfy the story dependencies. So much about immersion.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Inside jokes, easter eggs, shot-outs to different works of fiction, real life, other universes and stuff have been in games (and generally other works of fiction) for decades... grow up.
  • doggydoggy Member Posts: 313
    @illathid that nervous guy right outside the circus tent. Named after one of the creators or something like that.

    Also the band of brothers you meet on the second floor in one of the bars in Waukeens Promenade is named after someone. The leader that is and the name is his forum name. That is die hard fandom to be part of a sequel to a game. Can't remember neither by heart though.

    And for the record I personally don't mind the slightest. The did you know thread and other threads hold a lot of interesting info.
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    The head of Neb the child killer looks just like one of the Baldur's Gate devs who was sacked. The description of the head is so vitriolic I assume there is a back story.
  • GozetaGozeta Member Posts: 105
    I loved the inside joke. I'm glad more of it abounds in Siege of Dragonspear.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    Is it worse than the list of possible passwords in the Thieves Guild in BG:EE which contains, for example, 'Bodhi' as a possible option? (Can't remember the other passwords). I imagine you could say: no, because Bodhi is something in-game (albeit BG2:EE) and, if you never played BG2:EE before, it is a nice foreshadowing. I always find it a bit odd to see that name there.

    Technically its "Bodi"....but yea never noticed that one before :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited April 2016
    Moradin said:

    I did not notice nor get the reference. Besides, even if I did, inside jokes are hardly original to SoD.
    Off the top of my heard I remember:
    - Edwin's "I do not understand this... 'mouse magic' that makes me do thine bidding";

    Tazok says something similar to this as well :)

    "Do I LOOK like I enjoy being prodded by strangers? Stow the pointer, mouse-boy!" and also

    "Oh sure! Touch me like you know me! Now I kill you twice!"
  • Sids1188Sids1188 Member Posts: 166
    edited April 2016
    And if I recall correctly from waaayyyy back, Cattack (the hobby-gob outside Beregost Temple) says: "clickity-clack clickity-clack, no good you do, hehehe". Always remembered that line for some reason, but never knew what it meant. Just seemed like a silly sounding nonsense phrase thing to say. Now I finally get it.

    As for the topic, I didn't get the joke. The name sounded vaguely familiar, but I just figured it was some random actor/singer/tv chef or something. But it doesn't seem any more out of place than, for instance, the guy that talks about the studies into barrels full of monkeys (is that game still a thing?)
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    edited April 2016
    I did notice if you take a certain route (quest), the name is mentioned at least twice in dialogue with two different NPCs in the space of about two minutes for me. I found it odd that the name kept coming up regardless who I spoke to as I didn't come across this name in the entire game before hand. It made me google the name to find out if I missed something only to find it's a reference to a part time game dev for beamdog.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    IWD2 spoiler following, so be warned.

    When i first played IWD2 my mage was named Loki. When I was rescuing the townsfolk from the first goblin raid I came across a dead cat in a barrel and returned it to its owner. The dead cats name was Loki and I was baffled for a good twenty minutes attempting to figure out why a dead animal was named after one of my spell casters. Then I realized it was an awkward coincidence.

    So I think the Devs had to come up with a believable name that no one in their right mind would name their character and came up with a slight deviation to Liam's name. I do now want to play a character named Liam Ensler to see if the dialog changes like with drittz.
  • Sids1188Sids1188 Member Posts: 166
    edited April 2016
    deltago said:

    So I think the Devs had to come up with a believable name that no one in their right mind would name their character

    Steady on. The developers parents clearly did exactly that. Surely that doesn't mean they weren't in their right mind? ;P /s
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    edited April 2016
    There's a lot of outside reference in BG, from the Larry, Darryl and Darryl (80's tv series) to "I am become Death, destroyer of worlds!" (Mahabharata but more recently quoted by Oppenheimer) to "I warrant your attention?! Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" (Jabberwocky). Really, the game is riddled with it, see (if I'm correct) the gravestones Nashkel for more developers by the way.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,758
    It's called an easter egg and something like that has always been in BG games.

    How about Semaj, a wizard from the Sarevok's final BG1 group? It's James backwards. Named after James Ohlen, a Senior Creative Director at BioWare.

    How about Daer'Ragh from the Nashkel graveyard? He was named after one of Biowares programmers, Mark Darrah.

    So, getting an Ensler answer in SoD is completely in line with BG games.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    I really don't know there are actually people who complain about things like this. Did you fail to play the old BG1 game or BG2?! Because there's things of this nature all over. They don't even hide most of them...
  • ChadChad Member Posts: 90
    LOL, what about Gromnir??? There is a reason he changed his forum login to 'Gromnirs Ghost' on the Bioware forums. Yep, that's right, even a fan/forum poster got put in the BG series! Not just Devs or pop culture references. I don't get why it bothers anyone though. My love for silly puns and 'inside jokes' in video games probably started before it came out, but I always point back to Hero's Quest I (a.k.a Quest for Glory) as being the game that really made me realize how awesome an occasional OOC reference can be in a game.

    Haven't purchased or played SoD yet (Haven't had time to play!), but of all the 'negative' things I've heard they mostly have to do with stuff that appears all over the BG series and adventure/RPG genre in general...No big deal if you ask me.
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