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Beamdog Badassery

WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
So here's the thing. I've seen a huge number of threads spawning debates over all of the things people feel that Beamdog has done wrong. I want to take a moment to say...

Thank you Beamdog!

Why? Because Beamdog is incredible. That's a fact. They took a game that people loved and added to it. They improved various features, such as the horrible journal, and gave us new characters and NPCs to talk to and recruit. They created new quests and added new magical items. And then after doing well with the enhanced editions, they gave us a new game to bridge the gap.

And then, after all of that, they still said, "What can we do to make this better?"

Throughout all of this time, they have listened to the feedback. They have added new features that have been requested. They have modified existing characters and story lines upon fan feedback. They have kept the lines of communication open allowing these games to not be just a game created by a company for a group of people. These games have become much more. They're a game that the entire community helped to create. Anytime one pulls up BGEE, you can point to various features that were created and implemented solely because of fan feedback. And despite all of the controversy from recent issues/non-issues, they choose to continue to try to improve our experience.

And it's incredible. The fact that there is a location where I can go to submit an idea for a new character, or character class, or quest line, or feature... and know that it'll be considered and maybe even implemented in a future update for a game that I've loved for the last 18 years is amazing.

And if somebody doesn't like the changes, they can still play the original. They did it all by releasing a new game with new features that built upon a game that is still completely playable, should you choose to play that version instead.

So thank you, Beamdog. I genuinely appreciate all of the effort you've put into reviving the BG experience and including us as part of the development process.

You're the best!
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Comments

  • Wraith_SarevokWraith_Sarevok Member Posts: 130
    They didn't make it better. They made it worse.

    They made unecessary and convoluted UI changes with no option to revert to the original.
    Removed the classic movies and replaced them with some high-school student's cheap Flash project.
    Added tons of bugs and broke several quests for months.
    Their new journal is still full of broken/incorrect entries and proofreading errors.
    Added bad characters with bland voice acting that constantly distract from the story.
    New portraits and voice recordings that are way too modern and clash with the original art style.
    New music that totally clashes with the original soundtrack.
    Completely broke the game balance by including classes and items from BG2 and ToB.
    Pretty much stole several mods developed by the community over the last decade and packaged it as their own.
    Tacked on a lame expansion with a forgettable story.

    Oh and I can't "play the original" anymore without paying extra money for this crap, because it was recently announced that they are only going to be sold as a full package on GoG. They pretty much force you to buy it.

    So in short, you really don't know what you're talking about. And the only incredible thing about Beamdog is how they continue to beat a dead horse even when it's long past its expiration date. And how everyone seems to keep kissing up to them for no reason other than nostalgia and fanboyism.
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    Wraith_Sarevok said:

    They didn't make it better. They made it worse.

    They made unecessary and convoluted UI changes with no option to revert to the original.
    Removed the classic movies and replaced them with some high-school student's cheap Flash project.
    Added tons of bugs and broke several quests for months.
    Their new journal is still full of broken/incorrect entries and proofreading errors.
    Added bad characters with bland voice acting that constantly distract from the story.
    New portraits and voice recordings that are way too modern and clash with the original art style.
    New music that totally clashes with the original soundtrack.
    Completely broke the game balance by including classes and items from BG2 and ToB.
    Pretty much stole several mods developed by the community over the last decade and packaged it as their own.
    Tacked on a lame expansion with a forgettable story.

    Oh and I can't "play the original" anymore without paying extra money for this crap, because it was recently announced that they are only going to be sold as a full package on GoG. They pretty much force you to buy it.

    So in short, you really don't know what you're talking about. And the only incredible thing about Beamdog is how they continue to beat a dead horse even when it's long past its expiration date. And how everyone seems to keep kissing up to them for no reason other than nostalgia and fanboyism.

    Why is buying the whole original set of games a bad thing? I mean, I know it's heresy to admit on these boards, but I play the original trilogy FAR more than I do any of the EE games.

    I mean, you need the second game for Tutu to work anyway.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    After years of having to fix/correct things on my own (since I stubbornly refuse to use other people's mods...except for Auril's Bane with IWD--that mod was awesome), I am glad that Beamdog implemented a lot of the changes that they did. Although I still have the original install discs from when I bought the game in 2000 I will never go back to that version.
  • namenlosnamenlos Member Posts: 51
    edited April 2016
    @ Objulen NEVER! Do you play Civ? If so I challenge you to a game so that I may lay waste to your heretical society and its beliefs! Look on my works ye mighty and despair!

    Things I liked, aye? First off, I love the new interest in the game. Yeah, we got haters, but haters gonna hate, and for every one down vote It seems there was at least two? up votes. I didn't look, just seems way more on the side of SoD, and might makes right(Winning).

    Thing the second, keeping my multiplayer going(yeah, bugs, take a breath) sharing my love of all things BG is why I'm here, how about you? oh... er, maybe not all of us.

    Thing the third, Can I get that buff looking guy that apparently works for ya'll as an NPC. Romance option required. /wink

    Edit: This post was inspired by coffee(the drink, and lots of it) and I just wanted to share credit where credit is due.
  • RathenauRathenau Member Posts: 80
    edited April 2016
    Excalibur_2102 said:

    Seriously, just let people who like the game like it, and go and play the originals..

    This seems to infer that when playing the originals and commenting about the flaws in the recent work is somehow preventing people from liking it. It is my understanding that anyone is free to post their thoughts about the product and by extension the developer, whether they are positive or negative. If someone posts a glowing positive endorsement, they will need to accept that not everyone will agree with them. As mentioned above; implying that someone should stop posting their opinion is simply bad form.

    To come back to the opening post; it is mentioned that the controversy didn't impede their work. Now I do believe that said controversy would have turned out far differently if it was handled better from a public relations point of view. So I do hope Beamdog as a whole learned some lessons there.

    As to @Wraith_Sarevok 's points, I'd like to weigh in that the story of the newest expansion is indeed quite forgettable. There are no pivotal moments that keep with you. Plus, it forces you as a player in one direction so forcefully that it breaks any and all sense of your own agency. Then there is the odd choice of ignoring any and all of the pantheon, stating that the crusade follows all of them. If that isn't a lazy plot, I don't know what is.

    Finally; it's worth mentioning that these kinds of criticisms are made to improve the game, not to somehow destroy it. If you're unable to see any flaws in your favourite game you're unable to enhance it.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Rathenau said:

    Then there is the odd choice of ignoring any and all of the pantheon.

    That's the point, you CAN'T follow ALL gods in the Forgotten Realms, so they are heretics. It's pretty much the only way to be a heretic in a universe where all gods exist.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited April 2016
    Fardragon said:

    Rathenau said:

    Then there is the odd choice of ignoring any and all of the pantheon.

    That's the point, you CAN'T follow ALL gods in the Forgotten Realms, so they are heretics. It's pretty much the only way to be a heretic in a universe where all gods exist.
    Actually, there is a group of folks called "the Faithless" who are cursed after death in the Forgotten Realms setting: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faithless
    The Faithless are mortals who do not have a divine patron. This could be because the mortal never worshiped a deity (or rejected outright the worship of any deity), the mortal's divine patron has died, or that their divine patron rejected them for whatever reason. A soul who does worship a deity but did not sufficiently uphold their patron's dogma is instead judged False.

    A Faithless soul receives only one sentence when it reaches The City of Judgment on the Fugue Plane: the Wall of the Faithless.[1] The soul is bound onto the wall by a green mold that binds The Faithless (and only The Faithless) to the wall.[2] Over time the soul dissolves into the very substance of the wall.[1]

    Demons propagate by stealing Faithless souls from the wall and retreating with them back to the Abyss.[3]
    In Western Religious terms, that basically means that the Faithless go to Purgatory AND then go to hell. So, they're screwed 2 ways.


    There's also the False, which are those purposely betrayed their deity after a lifetime of service: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_False
    The False were the souls of those individuals who intentionally betrayed their deities after making a commitment to them during their lifetimes.[1] If judged and found guilty by Kelemvor, they were punished for all eternity. The punishment varried depending on the severity of the crime. The punishment could be anything from escorting visitors to the City of Judgment, to unspeakable tortures.[1]
    Note: The punishments of the Faithless and the False were likely a bit more severe in the time of the BG series, because Myrkul was a much crueler god than Kelemvor. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Myrkul
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The faithless are included in FR theology, so they aren't actually heretics.

    The only thing that is absolutely forbidden by FR theology is worshipping All gods. Which is why Beamdog chose to make that the faith of the Crusade.
  • LoreLore Member Posts: 114
    I for one REALLY enjoy SOD and both BGEE and BG2EE. The story , gameplay, characters and most everything else was very good. Thank you Beamdog.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    edited April 2016
    namenlos said:

    @ Objulen NEVER! Do you play Civ? If so I challenge you to a game so that I may lay waste to your heretical society and its beliefs! Look on my works ye mighty and despair!

    You'll have a hard time doing that, chum. My civilization is in Alpha Centauri, and we've got Stasis Armor, Singularity Canons, and tanks with drop pods ;)
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    edited April 2016
    Rathenau said:

    This seems to infer that when playing the originals and commenting about the flaws in the recent work is somehow preventing people from liking it. It is my understanding that anyone is free to post their thoughts about the product and by extension the developer, whether they are positive or negative.

    There is, however, a difference between hate trolling because OMG ANGRY BECAUSE ITS DIFFERENT or OMG TRANIES R LAME and legitimiate complaints or feedback. One glaring issue that stuck out to me was how my level 9 mage Imoen turned into a bumbling apprentice during a cut scene. As an expansion written from scratch, I think it's very reasonable that Beam Dog should have taken a common dual class option for Imoen into account when developing her story for SoD.
  • doggydoggy Member Posts: 313
    I too really enjoy the EE versions and SOD as well. I think beamdog did a superb job in first turning my favorite game into a new shiny version. Being truly happy that they couldn't change but only update and add content (you just don't mess with classic material).

    SOD is their thoughts on what happened in the gap. I have wondered in years and like everybody had my own ideas. This is theirs and unlike things in my head this is playable.

    Great new characters - I'm on the M'khiin (or how you spell it) wagon. She will become a modern classic and fits just perfect. Also great balance between all the EE characters including the new family members and the old known faces.

    And the music is awesome. Just awesome.

    So thumbs up here.

    And @Wraith_Sarevok if you want the old classic ones then just buy them online available on dvd. There is a plethora of them out there. Still have my old ones, they still work (needs a patch found online for free), and then playtime for you.
  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    This seems to infer that when playing the originals and commenting about the flaws in the recent work is somehow preventing people from liking it. It is my understanding that anyone is free to post their thoughts about the product and by extension the developer, whether they are positive or negative. If someone posts a glowing positive endorsement, they will need to accept that not everyone will agree with them. As mentioned above; implying that someone should stop posting their opinion is simply bad form.
    Well @Purudaya has pretty much responded to this better than I can. I don't disagree with all the criticism leveled at beamdog for certain things, but Ive seen Wraith_Sarevoks posts pretty much the first EE release, and I cant remember a single positive thing said about the game. Not all of the criticism is leveled at beamdog to try and help them improve, some is simply done because there are people who never liked the enhanced editions to begin with or even the idea of someone messing with their precious games. Some would rather simply see the EE's disappear and have no intention of helping beamdog improve.

    He states nostalgia is what makes people kiss up to beamdog? Maybe some people, but ironically it is likely that nostalgia that drives him to attempt to slate the game at any given opportunity. I mean, stolen mods? Really? The music has also pretty much been universally praised, yet he still hates on that as well.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    I did not play baldurs gate until 2012 so it's sure not nostalgia for me anyways.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    Fardragon said:

    There is, but any post that can be summerised as "everything Beamdog does sucks, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot", which is basically what @Wraith_Sarevok says, is a long way from legitimate feedback.

    Exactly.

  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    Grum said:

    Guys...he is just rping really well. The wraith of Sarevok goads Charname into a rage, trying to get him to summon the slayer. This unrelenting negativity is just staying in character. Don't give in and carry on.

    "It's about ethics in immortal energies sustaining me."
    -Sarevok selection audio from BG2 3.0 update in 2017, cut in BG2 3.1, M'Khiin, a new Dwarven Defender companion and unique Shaman questline to access Druid Stronghold added to both SoA/ToB in 3.2 and everyone rejoices
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    I'm generally happy with beamdogs decisions(with the exception of the new character creation, eww) but threads like these really triggers my gag reflex.
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